Push, Pull, Squat

the drifter

Liam Henners257 wrote: »

I know what you're saying.
lots of people have been saying this to me lately so instead of doing 5/3/1 for 2-3 years as i had planned, im just gonna finish out this year with it and see how I am then and take xmas to decide what to do in 2011.

Least you starting to come round

Inspector Coptoor

the drifter wrote: »

I found 5/3/1 good for maintaining respectale strenght when cutting but thats it... as an out and out strenght gainer in my opinion its not playing with the big boys at all...

I found the opposite of this tbh.

when i was eating lots, i found it to be great for strength gains.
i was knocking out pbs left, right and centre.

when i went on a cut, i went backwards

itsallaboutheL

Liam Henners257 wrote: »

I found the opposite of this tbh.

when i was eating lots, i found it to be great for strength gains.
i was knocking out pbs left, right and centre.

when i went on a cut, i went backwards

drifter means, for someone eating fairly normally for maintenance, it works to keep up strength when you go below maintenance.

Not, someone who is eating well above maintenance who then goes on a fairly serious cut.

If you want to hold on to strength there then you're gonna need more than a nicely titled program.

Hanley

Liam Henners257 wrote: »

I found the opposite of this tbh.

when i was eating lots, i found it to be great for strength gains.
i was knocking out pbs left, right and centre.

when i went on a cut, i went backwards

Is that because 5/3/1's good, or because it's easy to get strong when you're gaining tonnes of weight?

It's very easy to get strong when you're gaining, any program should bring you there. The real judgement falls on it when you're not gaining/losing.

When I started to cut on 5/3/1 I went backwards, but then I managed to get stronger while losing weight and upping my conditioning thru other avenues.

Tbh, I don't rate 5/3/1 at all and I'm glad you're considering ditching it. I think it'll be a lot better for you in the long run.

G86

Liam Henners257 wrote: »

any other questions, fire away

Thanks for all the info I was wondering because I'd thought the way it was in IP you had to strictly follow their program, so was wondering if you'd had one tailored for you with 5/3/1 worked into it or if you were doing that yourself alongside the IP training.

Would you be happy to put back on some of the weight if it meant your strength went back up, or is your primary goal to be leaner now?

Will Heffernan

Didn't even know you kept a log here....got a tip off on facebook.

The 5/3/1 discussion is intereting...have not had any experience with it myself so it's good to here people's views on it.

The year thing is interesting as well because when I was putting in all the results I was looking at another Informed Performance member results...I'll post the here because he's trained at IP for a year and gone from 100+kg to around 90kg lost a tonne of bodyfat obviously...his bench has gone from 90kg to 135kg, pull ups from 8 or 9 to 18 reps, push ups and inverted rows....he is like all the good athletes that test...he hits taget and stops so I think his last score was 51 and 31 and pulls 200+kg on the trap bar.

Maybe when you finish 5/3/1 you might try a couple of months of Informed Performance training

Keep up the good work.

Inspector Coptoor

G86 wrote: »

Would you be happy to put back on some of the weight if it meant your strength went back up, or is your primary goal to be leaner now?

No.
I've experimented with putting on weight and i didnt like being up on 119kg/19 stone.

if anything, the goal is to get leaner now and get sub 100kg at some stage.
If managed to get down to 100kg, I actually wouldnt mind if strength dropped a little more.
but if I did lose more weight, id be better at pull ups, push ups, inverted rows and and maybe even the squat as i wouldnt be squatting as much of myself

Will Heffernan wrote: »

.
Maybe when you finish 5/3/1 you might try a couple of months of Informed Performance training

yeah, I think I will from January.
I think I put in a fairly solid summer of training.

I've lost some bodyfat ~ 6% or so last test
Ive put on more muscle in my upper back
Ive got fitter
Ive started to learn jitz

the only downside would be strength dropping in the bench
Its coming back in the DL and the squat and even in the press though.

thanks for the input on here Will.

kevpants

Liam Henners257 wrote: »

the only downside would be strength dropping in the bench

One time I decided to leave butter off my sandwich and it knocked 5kg off my bench

I wouldn't get down about your bench taking a dive. Everyone's does for different reasons. It'll come back, but you won't necessarily know why. Mine was cat and now it's stronger than ever and I'm fecked if I know why.

10 people can make plausible arguments about what will help your bench and all but one of them might be wrong. I think pin presses have helped me. but floor presses never did. Explain that!

Re: 5/3/1. I think there's a reason 5/3/1 for powerlifting is coming out. I was one of the first to start 5/3/1 and last to ditch it and I was really dissapointed with the result over the course of a year.

I asked Wendler in IP that day about a lifter crapping themselves when they get their 1rm on their back after training with 5/3/1 %'s all year and he dismissed it as the lifter needing to man up but I maintain I was right.

I had a 215kg squat starting 5/3/1 and got buried by 220kg a year later after making progress on paper all year long. If I hadn't eaten like a procrastinating bolemic prior to the single lifts and gained 10lbs of chub I'd have tanked it on the day.

Inspector Coptoor

this is the most traffic my log has ever seen!

cheers for all the input guys and gals.

Plan now is to:

• finish out the year doing 5/3/1.
• then im gonna give the IP programme a go for 3 months
• then I might start experimenting with Smolov, Coan etc

Inspector Coptoor

5/3/1 Cycle 14 Week 1 (5 day)

Bench
Max - 100kg
Training max - 90kg

warm up involved shoulder dislocates, band pull aparts, face pulls and ytws.

Benching
20kg - 2 x 10
30kg - 10
40kg - 10

work sets
65% - 60kg - 5
75% - 67.5kg - 5
85% - 77.5kg - 14
75% - 67.5kg - 5
65% - 60kg - 20

I had 12 plus reps in my head for 77.5kg so was happy with 14
i wasnt putting the bar down til I got 20 reps with 60kg.

3 Rounds of
DB Rows
34kg -15 per side

Alternating Incline DB Press
20kg DBs -10 per side

Flat DB Flies
12kg DBs - 12

DB Curls
12kg DBs - 12

2 mins rest in between

Happy enough with the session.
put the bit between my teeth for the two main sets and really went balls to the walls on them.

Driving back to Dublin in a few mins with my mála scoile and shirts, ties etc after a summer in shorts, t shirts and trainers.

Might squat in IP tonight when I get back.

Inspector Coptoor

PM Session

Squatting in IP

IP warm up
stretching

5/3/1 Cycle 14 Week 1 5 Day
Squats

Training max: 140kg

20kg - 2 x 10
40kg - 10
50kg - 5

work sets
90kg - 5
105kg - 5
120kg - 5
105kg - 5
90kg - 8

happy to get the 5 at 120

Assistance exercises:
BBB
60kg - 3 x 12

BB lunges with
BW + 20kg - 3 x 8 per leg

Conditioning
Prowler Pushes
Prowler + 120kg - 10 pushes ~ 40m each push

good days training.
back to work tomorrow.

Inspector Coptoor

5/3/1 Cycle 14 Week 1 (5 day)

IP warm up

foam rolling

Deadlifts
60kg - 2 x 5
80kg - 2 x 5
100kg - 2 x 5

work sets
124kg - 5
143kg - 5
162kg - 6
143kg - 5
143kg - 7

Conditioning
Deadlift and Carry WOD
meant to be 145kg DL x 5 followed by 18kg carry for 60m
I scaled the DL down a bit

10 mins
100kg DL x 5
20kg carry - 60m

10 rounds + 3 DLs

Prowler work
Prowler + 80kg
10 pushes in 10 mins

hanging knee raises - 5 x 8

Will Heffernan

I bet you are bursting.

Inspector Coptoor

Will Heffernan wrote: »

I bet you are bursting.

I am.

Im like a child hopping from one foot to the other when he badly needs to pee!

Will Heffernan

Liam Henners257 wrote: »

I am.

Im like a child hopping from one foot to the other when he badly needs to pee!

You know the internet will implode if it finds out.

Inspector Coptoor

Will Heffernan wrote: »

You know the internet will implode if it finds out.

I know.
my silence is stopping armageddon.

my silence could be bought for jaeger bombs on the 18th though..........

itsallaboutheL

Liam Henners257 wrote: »

I know.
my silence is stopping armageddon.

my silence could be bought for jaeger bombs on the 18th though..........

We're gonna do a metcon with jager involved on the 18th...







oh wait, you need a bodyweight bench


:P

the drifter

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

We're gonna do a metcon with jager involved on the 18th...







oh wait, you need a bodyweight bench


:P

pwned.....

Inspector Coptoor

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

We're gonna do a metcon with jager involved on the 18th...

oh wait, you need a bodyweight bench
:P

Ill cut off a leg or something

Hanley

Liam Henners257 wrote: »

Ill cut off a leg or something

Cut off 1 of Drifters while you're at it so he can't do any of that gay running ****e anymore.

the drifter

Hanley wrote: »

Cut off 1 of Drifters while you're at it so he can't do any of that gay running ****e anymore.

In 14 days time ill need that leg for stuff other than running...

No everyone get back to logging and telling Liam not to do 5/3/1 anymore please

FTA69

Just a quick question there (sorry to be spamming your log) for those who think 5/3/1 is a load of cock; do ye think it a sh*t program full stop or just unsuited to someone who is a very experienced lifter?

itsallaboutheL

FTA69 wrote: »

Just a quick question there (sorry to be spamming your log) for those who think 5/3/1 is a load of cock; do ye think it a sh*t program full stop or just unsuited to someone who is a very experienced lifter?

it's just coz he lost a crap load of weight while doing it/

d'Oracle

FTA69 wrote: »

Just a quick question there (sorry to be spamming your log) for those who think 5/3/1 is a load of cock; do ye think it a sh*t program full stop or just unsuited to someone who is a very experienced lifter?

I don't think anyone said that it was a load of cock or that its ****.

brianthebard

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

it's just coz he lost a crap load of weight while doing it/

I think that was on purpose....

itsallaboutheL

brianthebard wrote: »

I think that was on purpose....

I'm not saying that was a result of 5/3/1.

ya ape!

I'm saying that's why it wasn't really doing much for him

Inspector Coptoor

FTA69 wrote: »

Just a quick question there (sorry to be spamming your log) for those who think 5/3/1 is a load of cock; do ye think it a sh*t program full stop or just unsuited to someone who is a very experienced lifter?

1st off, Im not a very experienced lifter.
I have a few years training behind me but hardly have impressive numbers (not even a bw bench as im constantly reminded!)

I really really liked 5/3/1 in the beginning.
i was constantly knocking out PBs and getting stronger all the time.
but I wasnt doing any conditioning at all.
I was getting heavier and stronger and at the time i didnt mind being super fat if i was getting super strong (relatively speaking of course)

anyway, eventually I decided enough was enough and time to stop being such a fatty. I would have been easily 30%+ bf at this stage and 119kg.

have gotten down to about 108kg at 20%ish now and want to bring that down further.

I tried to keep doing the same amount of lifting while adding conditioning stuff and while eating less.

Ive found it works for losing weight/bf but not for strength gains.
strength acutally goes down, particularly in the bench and other upperbody movements.

Anyway, Im happy enough to finish out the year doing 5/3/1. Ill probably up the conditioning even more and try to get to 15% bf at 100kg by the end of the year, bench be damned.

5/3/1 is a good programme to do imo, 6 cycles should be enough to start hitting plateaus.
when you hit plateaus, retest your maxes and work off 90% of the new maxes.

_JOE_

Liam, I hope you don't mind me posting in your log and giving my opinion on 5/3/1 (and squat in particular)
Well, just to give my own experience of 5/3/1 (although i know Pavel has made serious gains from it too)...
My squat 1rm last December was 100kg @ 80kg BW and seriously lagging behind my DL.

Since then, I've gone through 12 cycles, never reset, kept my current BW and hit 130kg x 10 easily yesterday and could have done 13+...
I'm up to a comfortable 160kg now (although i've got a serious amount of guidance from my brother.)

I think it seems to suit some people in making those initial gains, although one thing i did notice was the difficulty i had with more weight on my back. Basically I became proficient at repping the weight.

The above was all done at the same time as playing 3 matches a week and also training...
__________________

Inspector Coptoor

no bother joe.

the more input on this the better.

Inspector Coptoor

Early morning prowler session with no food in Booterstown Park with Jayroc

Prowler + 2KBs were the implements of torture, one 20kg, one 16kg.

1st run - Prowler push
Prowler + 36kg of KBs
50m up and 50m back - 39 seconds

2nd run - Prowler Drag
Prowler + 36kg of KBs
50m up and 50m back - 1 min 41 seconds

3rd run - Prowler push, KB Swings, prowler push
Prowler + 36kg of KBs
Push up 50m on low handles
20 x 20kg KB swings
50m push on high handles
2 mins 9 seconds

4th run - Push, sprint, carry, push
50m empty prowler push
50m sprint
50m farmers walk with 36kg of KBs
50m push with prowler + 36kg KBs
1 min 48 seconds

I was very close to seeing my breakfast of two scoops of whey and 300ml water.

quads, hamstrings and lungs all destroyed.