Schools to close on 24th November

omahaid

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1113/education.html

Nov 24th, very relevant to those of us with kids. Me or the missus will need to take a day off work for this. Can't see how it is helping things to be honest, they haven't endeared me to their cause.

dvpower

+1 to that. I'll also have to take a day off or pay for some childcare.
Either way, this costs me. Teachers aren't going to get the public on their side by taking money directly from their pockets.

Dannyboy83

Teachers went on strike when I was in the leaving cert during 2000/2001.
TBH, I found it beneficial.

Some days I stayed home and studied, or met up with friends and studied.
One of my teachers disappeared for 3 months, English teacher, I got an Hons A2 in that.

Basically,
All of the crappy teachers who were useless went on strike.
All of the decent teachers who did care and actually were capable of teaching were only officially on strike but in reality, they were teaching us on the sly.

All the messers stayed at home and there was only good teachers on duty -probably the most productive period of education in my life.:D

segaBOY

Source: http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1113/education.html

Schools throughout the country will be closed on 24 November, after teachers voted in favour of industrial action against cutbacks.

The result of the ballots was announced by the three main teacher unions today.

A fourth union has already received a mandate for action.

The result means all schools, primary and second-level, as well as further education and third level colleges, will close on the day.

In a joint statement, the primary and second-level teaching unions said they were taking action because members had never before faced such a threat to pay, pensions and terms and conditions.

They say they fully recognise the serious national problem but want more of an emphasis on taxation as well as cuts.

This means the country's 65,000 teachers will withdraw their labour on 24 November and schools will have to close.

Second-level teachers voted 77% in favour of strike, primary schools teachers by 79%.

Third level teachers have already given their union a mandate.

In response, the Minister for Education said in a statement that industrial action will not address the country's financial difficulties.

Batt O'Keeffe called on teachers to pull together in the national interest.

They striked during the good times to secure pay for supervision duties which now stands at €50.34 per hour, now they're striking during the bad times to maintain ridiculously high pay.

It's obvious that the teachers have their fat pay packets at heart instead of our children's future.

And all of this on top of yesterday's figures that the cost of living has fallen by 6.6% since this time last year.

Teachers are an essential part of both our society and our economy. But it's time to get real-the country's broke and borrowing €450million a week to help pay overinflated wages isn't going to help.

Roadend

Nice, I'll get a few minutes extra in bed with the lighter traffic. More teacher's strikes please.

CutzEr

It's a win win situation for me..

TheZohanS

Moved to Irish Economy

Lux23

Let them strike. They get won't anything so why are they even bothering with this, do they honestly think they will get any sympathy for walking out on school kids. Knobs.

gurramok

They do anything to protect that 60k average pay packet. (source Dept of Education http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0416/teachers.html)

jimmmy

They do not strike during any of their generous holidays. Parasites.

Nody

Be happy that they strike; it is at least one day this year that we, the taxpayers, don't have to pay their bloated salaries.

And lets not kid ourself that missing one day is going to affect the education in any way. The only thing they are doing is pissing of a lot of parents which is a good thing when the crunch comes around and they start to spout BS as "Think of the children" again.

Mena

Nody wrote: »

Be happy that they strike; it is at least one day this year that we, the taxpayers, don't have to pay their bloated salaries.

No, but I have to fork out to the creche instead :mad:

jimmmy

The private sector and ordinary citizen can get their own back in different ways. Offer the striking teachers a nice cup of tea, but do not tell them whats in it .

I a reminded of a person who worked in an auctioneers office , and who confirmed on this board, that in their experience most of the people who bought holiday homes were public servants, and specifically teachers.

Idbatterim

another strike by the teachers! €3 out of every €4 spent by the gov on education goes to teachers pay! The selfishness and self interest here is disgusting! especially by those that proclaim to be champions of the people! let them strike! these are the same people that should be examples to the kids and look at them! pathetic!

segaBOY

#15 wrote: »

I'm a teacher, completely against this strike. Its ridiculous, I'm ashamed of the idiots who voted to strike.

A lot of "tarring with the same brush" happens in these situations when it's a unionised front so apologies if my any of my posts seem that way.

Glad to see some teachers are living in the real world.

dvpower

In a joint statement, the primary and second-level teaching unions said they were taking action because members had never before faced such a threat to pay, pensions and terms and conditions.

So is this is a preemptive strike, designed to put pressure on the government pre budget day?

Can any teacher here try and explain what teachers can realistically acheive by having this strike, other than alienate them from the general public?

segaBOY

#15 wrote: »

My dad is self employed and he has literally no income at the minute.
I'm a young teacher and I can't afford to miss a days pay. I also am aware that the country is bankrupt, unlike the INTO apparently. They are in dream land.

And then there was an idiot in the staff room today who even said, 'I bet they'll dock our pay for the strike'. FFS, what does she expect.

And yes, a lot of tarring with the same brush does go on, but its something I'm guilty of myself sometimes. The only problem is when people (like some on other threads) belive the tar is the truth.:)

Well you are in the group I feel for the most.

You guys have been suffering for quite some time now however it's only when the high pay that permanent members enjoy is in the line of fire that the unions decide to strike. Funny thing is if there was a universal paycut there would be more chance of new jobs being created in the sector due to a more favourable budget. Every government department is trying to reduce the payroll so new appointments are just not on the agenda unless some level of rationalisation occurs on the income front.

murphaph

#15 wrote: »

I'm a teacher, completely against this strike. Its ridiculous, I'm ashamed of the idiots who voted to strike.

Fair play to you as an individual but sadly you are in the small minority here. The vast bulk of your colleagues believe we can tax our way out of this (serious) recession and continue to pay their salaries at current levels, despite a total collapse in tax returns due to an over reliance on property.

I urge all teachers who voted against the strike to stay at home. Only the scumbags who voted in favour of putting their (on average high) salaries above the children of Ireland should have to face the wrath of the parents, and they should face some wrath for this!

segaBOY

murphaph wrote: »

Fair play to you as an individual but sadly you are in the small minority here. The vast bulk of your colleagues believe we can tax our way out of this (serious) recession and continue to pay their salaries at current levels, despite a total collapse in tax returns due to an over reliance on property.

I urge all teachers who voted against the strike to stay at home. Only the scumbags who voted in favour of putting their (on average high) salaries above the children of Ireland should have to face the wrath of the parents, and they should face some wrath for this!

The No voters still have to go to work in the morning alongside the vast majority of the yes men. Even look at the ASTI's poster-basically making up your mind for you by using scaremongering.

http://www.asti.ie/fileadmin/user_upload/Documents/Vote_Yes_Poster.pdf

I'd love if they all stayed at home but lets be honest it aint an option for most teachers-especially if they are young and are forced to do a bit of brown nosing to keep their temporary jobs! (no offence intended!)

jaffa20

Sack all the overpaid teachers who voted for the strike and bring in all the newly educated teachers who can't find work at the moment. They'll happily work for half the salary that is being paid. They may even bring a brighter and more fresher approach to the current education system.

murphaph

segaBOY wrote: »

The No voters still have to go to work in the morning alongside the vast majority of the yes men. Even look at the ASTI's poster-basically making up your mind for you by using scaremongering.

http://www.asti.ie/fileadmin/user_upload/Documents/Vote_Yes_Poster.pdf

I'd love if they all stayed at home but lets be honest it aint an option for most teachers-especially if they are young and are forced to do a bit of brown nosing to keep their temporary jobs! (no offence intended!)

Just reading that poster-they are striking over what might be, not over anything in particular. Is this the most RIDICULOUS strike anyone has ever seen??? Disgraceful!! Hang your heads in shame the lot of you (well, the 80 odd percent who want it).

fullback4glin

Nice One keep more strikes please, no school for me

dip student not getting paid or part of any union so I don't give a toss

segaBOY

jaffa20 wrote: »

Sack all the overpaid teachers who voted for the strike and bring in all the newly educated teachers who can't find work at the moment. They'll happily work for half the salary that is being paid. They may even bring a brighter and more fresher approach to the current education system.

All well and good but such a shift in labour resources would:

a) Bring about legal action as you're not making anyone redundant-simply replacing them and reducing wages.

b) Damage the standard in many schools. You are sacking the most experienced members and bringing in unexperienced teachers which is a recipe for disaster-we all have to learn somewhere and off of someone.

A more level rationalised approach is needed.

Mr.Micro

The teachers in Ireland do not know how well off they are. 3 months hols in the summer, 2 weeks Christmas and Easter, and 2 half terms thrown in. Do not have to have parent teacher meeting for every class every term after school like other countries but manage one per year and usually during school hours, while it is after school everywhere else. No school league tables etc. Hell they do as they want and are paid well for it in real terms. Maybe they are complaining because they get too much?

mikemac

murphaph wrote: »

Just reading that poster-they are striking over what might be, not over anything in particular.

It's before the budget. The ASTI brochures states they will be viewed as an easy target so they want a show of strength but the budget is finalized

I'm sure the unions see the need for cuts, just anywhere else but their sector....

jaffa20 wrote: »

Sack all the overpaid teachers who voted for the strike and bring in all the newly educated teachers who can't find work at the moment. They'll happily work for half the salary that is being paid. They may even bring a brighter and more fresher approach to the current education system.

Illegal on so many levels though I see what you're saying

segaBOY

Mr.Micro wrote: »

The teachers in Ireland do not know how well off they are. 3 months hols in the summer, 2 weeks Christmas and Easter, and 2 half terms thrown in. Do not have to have parent teacher meeting for every class every term after school like other countries but manage one per year and usually during school hours, while it is after school everywhere else. No school league tables etc. Hell they do as they want and are paid well for it in real terms. Maybe they are complaining because they get too much?

A lot of them are just out of touch and believe the nonsense spouted by the union.

I am waiting for a Yes voter to wander onto this thread and see how they approach the situation.

From previous threads it seems to be a "Scold the poster like he is one of my students, tell him they don't know what they are talking about and my job is very hard, spout the usual 'look at NAMA and the private sector creaming it years ago' lines, completely ignore the current economic situation and high rates of pay we enjoy".

littlebsci

I for one find the whole thing sickening. I have absolutely no interest in striking as I genuinely don't think it's going to do anything but lower the general publics already low (a lot of it unjustified) opinion of us as a profession.

However, because the unions have voted to do so I, and other young members of my staff, have effectively been 'forced' to join just so we don't have to pass the picket on the 24th.

So there's the cost of a year's membership AND a day's pay down the drain!!

segaBOY

littlebsci wrote: »

I for one find the whole thing sickening. I have absolutely no interest in striking as I genuinely don't think it's going to do anything but lower the general publics already low (a lot of it unjustified) opinion of us as a profession.

However, because the unions have voted to do so I, and other young members of my staff, have effectively been 'forced' to join just so we don't have to pass the picket on the 24th.

So there's the cost of a year's membership AND a day's pay down the drain!!

Completely agree with what you're saying. My sister in law is a temp and I know how she feels about this but is forced to join in. Passing the picket is horrible, had to do it when I was in an non unionised job or face being fired while the unionised workers were out striking. Wouldn't wish it on anybody.

force eleven

And do they get that day's wages for staying in bed??

I have 3 children in school and now have the hassle of trying to organise for them to be cared for while myself and partner work to keep a roof over our heads. When you think these people have about 5 months holidays anyways, does it not make you sick?

If they lived in the real world of work they would act differently, and get on with it. :mad::mad:

segaBOY

force eleven wrote: »

And do they get that day's wages for staying in bed??

I have 3 children in school and now have the hassle of trying to organise for them to be cared for while myself and partner work to keep a roof over our heads. When you think these people have about 5 months holidays anyways, does it not make you sick?

If they lived in the real world of work they would act differently, and get on with it. :mad::mad:

I'd like to know what sort of campaign was run in the staff rooms. Just look at the scaremongering the ASTI were involved in: http://www.asti.ie/about-asti/structure/school-stewards/

The link on the homepage dresses it up as being for the benefit of the students with slogans like "my students matter" while is reality it is all about the wages and nothing else.

littlebsci

force eleven wrote: »

And do they get that day's wages for staying in bed??

Of course not!! That's one of the reasons I'm against striking. Not that I'm saying we should keep our pay when we're not working but I really don't like the idea of losing it when I don't want to strike!

mikemac

Do you get strike pay though?
Surely the union will pay each worker who joins the picket?

If you've no choice but to lose a days pay I'd be asking the union rep what was happening with strike pay, anyone know?

force eleven

segaBOY wrote: »

I'd like to know what sort of campaign was run in the staff rooms. Just look at the scaremongering the ASTI were involved in: http://www.asti.ie/about-asti/structure/school-stewards/

The link on the homepage dresses it up as being for the benefit of the students with slogans like "my students matter" while is reality it is all about the wages and nothing else.

It's the leaders that particularly get me going. Remember the greed of benchmarking? I've let my local teachers know how I feel, as I was particularly angry today and they were ultra defensive and apologetic. Everyone is feeling the pain, and we all need to keep the country moving along as best we can and not have this stupid selfish action.:mad::mad:

rebel10

jaffa20 wrote: »

Sack all the overpaid teachers who voted for the strike and bring in all the newly educated teachers who can't find work at the moment. They'll happily work for half the salary that is being paid. They may even bring a brighter and more fresher approach to the current education system.

Thanks:) Its good to finally see that people have realised that not all of us teachers are fortunate enough to have perm. contracts and good money. You have to also realise, that on strike day, many of the teachers that are there have to be there due to bad feeling in the staffroom. long winded sorry. As an older teacher said to me today, if i go to future interviews where the principals are strong ASTI members, he doesn't like my chances.
Look we are gonna get the cut no matter what, not something i'm looking forward to, but we have to remember it is only one day of striking (so far), plus, that we aren't being paid for, it will prob be raining, to make ye feel better! I know from speaking to people in the staff that they do feel it isin't the right move to take, but look, we can't take it lying down either like the pension levy, otherwise we will be hit everytime. Realistically, this downturn is gonna bring about change in the sector. I would not be shocked to see CID contracts being totally scraped in favour of yearly contracts. Any reduction we see now is going to stay with us for a very long time and not when the economy picks up. Sorry for the long post.

rebel10

mikemac wrote: »

Do you get strike pay though?
Surely the union will pay each worker who joins the picket?

If you've no choice but to lose a days pay I'd be asking the union rep what was happening with strike pay, anyone know?

No pay that day

MysticalRain

A bunch of greedy parasites. It's funny how the people who are most well off tend to protest the most.

segaBOY

force eleven wrote: »

It's the leaders that particularly get me going. Remember the greed of benchmarking? I've let my local teachers know how I feel, as I was particularly angry today and they were ultra defensive and apologetic. Everyone is feeling the pain, and we all need to keep the country moving along as best we can and not have this stupid selfish action.:mad::mad:

You can't blame the ignorance of the leaders on the members at the same time.

However I can't believe there was such a high yes vote tbh, teachers are well educated and smart people-greed must be taking over a lot of them.

ronbyrne2005

Unions are really shooting themselve in foot with this. Any support is only gonna evaporate as strikes go on.

nuac

The ASTI circular re non-cooperation with inspectors etc makes startling reading.

A large number of secondary school students are paying for grinds, extra tuition at Christmas and Easter etc etc. Students and their parents literally voting with their feet. It seems many teachers are not teaching properly during the small number of hours that they are in the classroom.

themont85

Bunch of jokers.

So they're striking before any pay has actually been docked in the budget? They can't be striking over the pension levy because that was months ago.

So when the budget comes out and when pay is cut a strike action will have lost all power (if it has any PR wise which I seriousely doubt).

jimmmy

Remember the Irish born + educated teacher, now teaching in Britain, who was on the Pat Kenny show for about 15 minutes a few weeks ago. He quoted fact upon fact about our teachers being paid so much more here, for less work ....735 hours as opposed to something like 1295 hours over there. Plus in the UK they have to do about a dozen parent teacher meetings a year in the evenings, so suit parents . Plus they do not get summer holidays until mid July etc.

segaBOY

nuac wrote: »

The ASTI circular re non-cooperation with inspectors etc makes startling reading.

A large number of secondary school students are paying for grinds, extra tuition at Christmas and Easter etc etc. Students and their parents literally voting with their feet. It seems many teachers are not teaching properly during the small number of hours that they are in the classroom.

There are good and bad in every profession. What sets teaching apart is those in permanent positions are virtually unsackable and are held to no accountability.

I had an accounting teacher who spent more time out of the classroom than he did in. He used miss countless classes and literally decide to walk out of the classes at random intervals when he was there.

Then again I had an economics teacher who used go out of his way to do everything to teach us-extra classes after school, extra days during christmas and before the leaving and ask for nothing in return.

It would be wrong to base the profession on the numbers getting grinds (which are given by teachers themselves!)-many students just need that extra bit of help irregardless.

However I strongly believe that some form of accountability had to be brought in to the profession to better it as a whole.

segaBOY

jimmmy wrote: »

Remember the Irish born + educated teacher, now teaching in Britain, who was on the Pat Kenny show for about 15 minutes a few weeks ago. He quoted fact upon fact about our teachers being paid so much more here, for less work ....735 hours as opposed to something like 1295 hours over there. Plus in the UK they have to do about a dozen parent teacher meetings a year in the evenings, so suit parents . Plus they do not get summer holidays until mid July etc.

True and all as that is don't fool yourself into believing that the UK education system is any better.

I have cousins in school there and have worked with an ex teacher who worked in Manchester-they both agree that it is more like a daycare centre for kids than an educational facility. Much much more discipline problems in their schools and their GCSEs and A Levels have been dumbed down over the past few years.

#15

jimmmy wrote: »

Remember the Irish born + educated teacher, now teaching in Britain, who was on the Pat Kenny show for about 15 minutes a few weeks ago. He quoted fact upon fact about our teachers being paid so much more here, for less work ....735 hours as opposed to something like 1295 hours over there. .

It is a good thing we are not like the UK system, in any way, shape or form. UK stats include preparation hours, Irish stats don't. Irish teachers have more contact hours with their classes. But you have been told this before, you just don't seem to be able to read it for some reason.

Teachers are shooting themselves in the foot, you would be well within your rights to have a pop at them about their selfishness. But no, you prefer to rely on twisting statistics. Your debating skills are <snip>

almostnever

The strike is on the second day of the Christmas exams in my school,and so I apparently will have to stay back 2 hours late on two of the other days to complete the exams that I would've sat on the Tuesday,had the strike not been supported by the teachers.

I am seriously considering crossing the picket line and studying in school that day.

I have been taught by a fair few teachers in my time,and as a current sixth year repeat in a new school,I can safely say that 90% of the teachers I have had were utterly inept. I've had the odd few total legends,but there are a disproportionate amount of useless self righteous idiots who will be striking on Tuesday.

How they can justify this strike is beyond me. They need to get over themselves. My sister's Spanish teacher told her that she's "used to her current wage level." No shít,Sherlock. It's called taking a hit,duh.

Today in a study skills session,I was told that there is the event,which I can't control,my response,which I can control,and the outcome,which is the sum of the event and the reaction. This was in relation to the Leaving Cert,of course. Maybe if this was applied to the public sector,and the teachers specifically, there'd be no problems. Because there will have to be pay cuts,and if they don't respond accordingly,the outcome will just be worse.

It's pathetic. It's the same thing as if my parents told me that after receiving ten euro pocket money a week for a number of years,they now have to reduce it to nine because of the financial situation, and if I could somehow "strike" from my family or become emancipated for the day in response,I'd be playing the teacher's role. This strike is childish,and totally incomprehensible.

dodgyme

#15 wrote: »

Teachers are shooting themselves in the foot

They arent no eisteins niether as mary coughlan would say

remember this

http://dynimg.rte.ie/00023900-150.jpg

segaBOY

#15 wrote: »

It is a good thing we are not like the UK system, in any way, shape or form. UK stats include preparation hours, Irish stats don't. Irish teachers have more contact hours with their classes. But you have been told this before, you just don't seem to be able to read it for some reason.

Teachers are shooting themselves in the foot, you would be well within your rights to have a pop at them about their selfishness. But no, you prefer to rely on twisting statistics. Your debating skills are <snip>

You are right. Just wondering as a young teacher what is your view on accountability? Permanent teachers don't seem to have any.

I am entering a profession that is bringing in standards for practice on a yearly basis.

Personally it sucks, but in the grand scheme of things it will up the game and make it a better sector for everyone-so I support it.

jimmmy

#15 wrote: »

It is a good thing we are not like the UK system, in any way, shape or form.

Bottom line ...its a pity we are paying our teachers much more than teachers are paid in the UK, or France for example, and its a pity they are still going on strike. They do not strike in early July when teachers in UK, Germany etc are still teaching ?

segaBOY

dodgyme wrote: »

They arent no eisteins niether as mary coughlan would say

remember this

http://dynimg.rte.ie/00023900-150.jpg

Religion and CSPE teachers huh? :rolleyes:

#15

dodgyme wrote: »

They arent no eisteins niether as mary coughlan would say

remember this

http://dynimg.rte.ie/00023900-150.jpg

You're no eistein either.

No need to generalise the whole profession though, it doesn't help matters.

murphaph

The UK manages to actually have a knowledge economy though.