Supplements

all the stars

Hi Guys,

Should have done this a long time ago, howveer, only getting to it lately

As veggies we miss out/ get reduced amounts of required vitamins.

I want to go get some vitamin supplements - but i imagine there is no "you are Veggie, take 1 of me everyday for all your needs"

What should i be taking? If this is already a thread in existance, sorry...

Crumble Froo

i think protein and b12 are the biggest issues for most people.

lots of nuts and seeds and tofu tend to cover my protein range. ive never quite figure out where b12 comes from, but the soy milk i use has plenty of b12 in it, so not an issue anyway.

there was a thread here entitled something like 'warning to veggies' that addressed the b12 thing, i think.

sweet-rasmus

all the stars wrote: »

What should i be taking? If this is already a thread in existance, sorry...

We have some old thread is you'd like a gander:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=61875207#post61875207
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=59510566#post59510566

remember that a balanced diet is essential, but as mentioned B12 is the main thing (vegans especially) that we'd be looking for in a tablet to accompany that.

Bottle_of_Smoke

all the stars wrote: »

Hi Guys,

Should have done this a long time ago, howveer, only getting to it lately

As veggies we miss out/ get reduced amounts of required vitamins.

I want to go get some vitamin supplements - but i imagine there is no "you are Veggie, take 1 of me everyday for all your needs"

What should i be taking? If this is already a thread in existance, sorry...

Are you a vegan? Vegetarians generally don't miss out on vitamins. Vegans do though.

One thing vegetarians may miss out on is Iron. Although there is iron in veggie foods its always non-haem iron which isn't as bioavailable as haem iron which you can only get from meat.

Taking vitamin C helps iron absorption and don't drink tea with meals as this blocks absorption of iron.

maameeo

i dont take any
i do get b12 every now and then but im very bad at remembering to take things!
oh and there is a 'you are veggie take this' vitamin made by seven seas but i dont see the point if your feeling healthy. i duno maybe i could be wrong.

actually i should look through the old threads too hehe

Tar.Aldarion

Um get your blood tested if you want to know! Vegan might be harder but veggie is easy to get all the vitamins, easy peasy.

Sapsorrow

Blood tests aren't always reliable for two reasons first of all the RDA's to which your results are compared aren't necessarily reflective of the optimal amounts of a nutrient associated with maximal protection from diseases or with optimal health.
Secondly methods for testing individual nutrients aren't always the most accurate method they could be. For example the usual method for determining vitamin D status involves testing for an INactive vitamin D metabolite rather than the physiologically relevant metabolic form.
when you get down to it it is actually incredibly difficult to meet your minimum requirements even on a good diet, this is becuase of the reduced quality of the food (due to poor soil quailty), foods in the diet that are anti-nutrients (inhibitors such as phytate, tannins etc or foods that increase loss of nutrients by affecting the metabolic environment) and the added stresses and strains of modern life such as exposure to environmental pollutants, stress, reduced activity levels etc..
Although synthetic supplements are far from ideal they are completely necessary for a lot of people. Another issue is the fact that although you might feel well and happy the long-term effects of sub-optimal intakes of certain nutrients are subtle, slow to develop and debilitating in the end.
You're not likely to notice that you're not getting enough calcium until you get to old age and find out you've got osteoperosis.
Increased risk of all our major chronic diseases are associated with sup-optimal or deficient intakes of some nutrient or another.
The most important ones for veggies/vegans are; calcium with vitamin D to enhance absorption, Iron (vitamin C aids absorption and tannins from tea and coffee inhibit absorption) A B vitamin complex and an omega 3 supplement (flax seed oil or spirulina)

all the stars

Thanks everyone for the replys... most helpful.

I actually got a blood test done already and they just said my Iron was riducously low, so i take liquid iron in O.J in the mornings.
Am taking Centrum to hopefully get the rest.

Wondering if thats enough? would i need additional b's also or omega? they seem to be in the centrum.


on another note, a friend told me there is some new law coming in Dec 31st which will see all tablet form vitamins becoming prescription only, anyone else heard this? I am doubting its true due to heavy reliance on them in general...

Sapsorrow

all the stars wrote: »

Am taking Centrum to hopefully get the rest.

Wondering if thats enough? would i need additional b's also or omega? they seem to be in the centrum.


on another note, a friend told me there is some new law coming in Dec 31st which will see all tablet form vitamins becoming prescription only, anyone else heard this? I am doubting its true due to heavy reliance on them in general...

Centrum aren't a very good brand I'd go for solgar myself, you're definately not getting enough calcium or omega 3 from a multivitamin though, if you want to get high levels you're gonna need to take a couple.
For example I take a calcium and vitamin D supplement, a B complex supplement and an iron supplment all as individual tablets. You shouldn't need a multivitamin as you status is probably only low in these nutrients anyway. For omega 3 I mix a bottle of flax oil in with my olive oil (50/50) and use that on sandwichs, salads etc every day instead of butter or margarine.

cookerj

Above poster is right in saying Centrum aren't a great brand. I don't know why that person feels that way, but I know why I do and it's the same as I feel about Seven Seas and most of the main brands - there are very small amounts of each ingredient and they're also low quality ingredients which aren't very "bio-available" ie your body can't absorb them well.

So it's kind of like eating half a fruit a day and expecting to be full of life and energy... you need MORE!!

Solgar are one of the best brands I know, Nature's Way are another one. Expect to pay more but they will actually have an effect compared to a lesser brand which you're wasting your money on.

Sapsorrow

cookerj wrote: »

Solgar are one of the best brands I know, Nature's Way are another one. Expect to pay more but they will actually have an effect compared to a lesser brand which you're wasting your money on.

Aren't natures way affiliated with Patrick Holford? Not sure myself but if they are wouldn't be spending my bucks there thats fer sure! Ya centrum are just quality etc like you said yourself. They're like the tesco value of nutritional supplements.

phic

khrystyna100 wrote: »

Aren't natures way affiliated with Patrick Holford? Not sure myself but if they are wouldn't be spending my bucks there thats fer sure! Ya centrum are just quality etc like you said yourself. They're like the tesco value of nutritional supplements.

Aw man I actually take tesco value vitamins. Never realised there was any difference between brands!!

I've been taking zinc lately, have had acne since i became a veggie, was recently told there might be a link between that and the fact its harder to get zinc in a veggie diet. It's only been a few days, so don't know yet if it will help, just though I'd mention it as another supplement to consider!

Thoushaltnot

The classic sign of zinc deficiency is white spots on your nails. Mind you, it has to be pretty much all your nails 'cos you can get white spots on your nails from banging them against something. A lesser known symptom, apparently is throwing ridiculous amounts of salt on your food, as your ability to taste it is impaired, when your zinc levels are low.

Something to be aware of is that certain minerals are absorbed at the expense of others, eg. calcium trumps iron, so it's possible to become anaemic on a high dairy veggie diet. And certain minerals work/absorb better together (calcium and magnesium, in a ratio of 2:1, I think is optimum) I can't remember the combos - maybe Khrystyna100 can help out here or you could have a look yourself (google "zinc" and "absorbtion"). Calcium, iron and copper inhibit zinc absorbtion, apparently, but that needs a double check.

Also, not every mineral compound is equal - some are far more bio-available than others. I think chelates are the most bio-available and the ones to look out for.

Actually, just found this - it's not a substitute for doctors/nutritionists advice but looks particularly appropriate for you;
http://www.acne.org/messageboard/Tricks-aid-absorbtion-t212741.html

Sapsorrow

phic wrote: »

Aw man I actually take tesco value vitamins. Never realised there was any difference between brands!!

I've been taking zinc lately, have had acne since i became a veggie, was recently told there might be a link between that and the fact its harder to get zinc in a veggie diet. It's only been a few days, so don't know yet if it will help, just though I'd mention it as another supplement to consider!

Hiya Phic it's well worth spending the extra few quid, not only for quality but also because the bases used can be well dodgysometimes (usually the cheapy ones) calcium is the classic example as some brands contain lead in them!
Thou shalt not is right about the absorption inhibition, in particular long term zinc suplementation can lead to copper deficiency which would be particularly problematic for a vegan. So you should only take minerals (apart from maybe calcium) as part of a multimineral supplement to balance them all out. You can get supplements know which just contain the minerals that people tend to have problems getting enough of without resorting to a multivitamin.
Cutting out dairy and meat as much as possible (as well as sugar including refined grains) works well for my skin in terms of breakouts, this is not necessarily anything to do with fat content as some people think but because when you metbolise animal proteins inflammatory chemicals are formed which can play a role in anything form skin flare ups to problems like rheumatoid arthritis.

Sapsorrow

Thoushaltnot wrote: »

The classic sign of zinc deficiency is white spots on your nails. Mind you, it has to be pretty much all your nails 'cos you can get white spots on your nails from banging them against something. A lesser known symptom, apparently is throwing ridiculous amounts of salt on your food, as your ability to taste it is impaired, when your zinc levels are low.

Something to be aware of is that certain minerals are absorbed at the expense of others, eg. calcium trumps iron, so it's possible to become anaemic on a high dairy veggie diet. And certain minerals work/absorb better together (calcium and magnesium, in a ratio of 2:1, I think is optimum) I can't remember the combos - maybe Khrystyna100 can help out here or you could have a look yourself (google "zinc" and "absorbtion"). Calcium, iron and copper inhibit zinc absorbtion, apparently, but that needs a double check.

Also, not every mineral compound is equal - some are far more bio-available than others. I think chelates are the most bio-available and the ones to look out for.

Actually, just found this - it's not a substitute for doctors/nutritionists advice but looks particularly appropriate for you;
http://www.acne.org/messageboard/Tricks-aid-absorbtion-t212741.html

Your right about the salt it inhibits a lot of minerals including fluroide (important for your teeth), calcium etc..
Brittle hair and nails and poor wound healing including the tendancy to form bad scars from minor wounds (likespots) is another sign of zinc deficiency.
For reccomendations on the actual chemical forms of different minerals that are best used for anyone who's interested this is a nice site and not too sciency resource, they have a vitamin section too.

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/minerals/zinc/

all the stars

interesting stuff....

Funny, i've never really liked salt on any of my food ( chips are only exception) I never like the taste...

i-digress

I use seven seas multivitamins for vegans and vegetarians. I find them quite good, personally.

phic

khrystyna100 wrote: »

Hiya Phic it's well worth spending the extra few quid, not only for quality but also because the bases used can be well dodgysometimes (usually the cheapy ones) calcium is the classic example as some brands contain lead in them!
Thou shalt not is right about the absorption inhibition, in particular long term zinc suplementation can lead to copper deficiency which would be particularly problematic for a vegan. So you should only take minerals (apart from maybe calcium) as part of a multimineral supplement to balance them all out. You can get supplements know which just contain the minerals that people tend to have problems getting enough of without resorting to a multivitamin.
Cutting out dairy and meat as much as possible (as well as sugar including refined grains) works well for my skin in terms of breakouts, this is not necessarily anything to do with fat content as some people think but because when you metbolise animal proteins inflammatory chemicals are formed which can play a role in anything form skin flare ups to problems like rheumatoid arthritis.

Thank you for all the info, this vitamin and mineral thing is much tougher than I realised!
Need a new plan for trying to fix my skin so! was hoping maybe the zinc would be the answer to my prayers, guess not!

Sapsorrow

phic wrote: »

Thank you for all the info, this vitamin and mineral thing is much tougher than I realised!
Need a new plan for trying to fix my skin so! was hoping maybe the zinc would be the answer to my prayers, guess not!

Lol I'm in my final year of a nutritional science degree and I still can't get my head around it all it's so complicated and I'm supposed to be becoming a qualified professional next may!
De skin one's tough all right used to have problems with acne as a teenager, ok now but still get de odd breakout if i'm bold and so I usually deserve it anyway.
You've probably heard it a millions times already but the main things are:
lots of plain water out of de tap (not juice or anything)
plenty of walks in the fresh air or whatever aerobic exercise you fancy but in the fresh air is always best as the combination of fresh air, increased blood bflow and adeqaute hydration will get all de crap in yer system moving in the right direction (as in outwards)
7 hrs sleep a night
Try not to wear moisturiser or any creams at night to give your sebaceous glands a chance to rebalance themselves after the encounters of the day.
Good food including plenty of minerals and vitamin E's a good one too.
For me the big one is cheese and to a lesser etent chocolate don't know whay one is more damaging than the other but maybe try cutting out the dairy for a few months and see how you get on.
If I stop doing pretty any of these things for any length of time I can actually feel my skin itching where new spots are festering under it a few days later oh and visitn my family always seems to result in an acute breakout so they still think I've got acne funny.
Dunno if yer a chica or not but evening primrose oil supplements used to help me with hormonal breakouts.
Hope some of this might be news to ya anyway.

Aoifums

Any decent calcium supplements out there? I just realised I'm not getting anywhere near enough calcium. I can't swallow giant sized pills and I don't like anything that tastes like chalk.

Edit: 300th post!

sweet-rasmus

but chalk is mostly calcium carbonate (CaCO3), so i'm not sure how you will avoid that unless there is a substantial amount of flavouring! I've never really taken calcium but drink enriched oatmilk which contains it. Most soys milks are also enriched with it (I seem to remember that you are also vegan).

yey on the postcount

fillefatale

khrystyna100 wrote: »

Dunno if yer a chica or not but evening primrose oil supplements used to help me with hormonal breakouts.
Hope some of this might be news to ya anyway.

I started doing this about two months ago and gave up after a month because i didn't see a difference and they were quite expensive. how long did you persevere before you noticed a change?


op: omega 3 oils for veggies!

Sapsorrow

sweet-rasmus wrote: »

Most soys milks are also enriched with it (I seem to remember that you are also vegan).

Soya's no good in general unless the beans are dephytinized so the fortification in the milk will just balance out increased losses from the phytate.
Solgar are always a good brand, in reviews by independant researchers they are one fo the few brands that come up clean.
As I mentioned aerlier you need a calcium and vitamin D supplement together and you need to take a multimineral (not vitamin) on top of that to balance the interference with calcium on other mineral absorptions.
If you take 1000mg break it in half and have 1/2 in the morning and 1/2 in the evening and if possible have the multimineral at lunch (so as to minimize the inhibition of absorption from the calcium).
In particular vegetarians need to watch out for inhibition of Iron by calcium so if you take an iron supplement take it a few hours away from your calcium.
It's complicated stuff.
For the evening primrose, I'm not sure how long it should take, I'd give it two months or more as hormone levels are going to balance themselves out as quickly as other imbalances. I took them for about three years but it was a while back now so can't remember too many details

Aoifums

sweet-rasmus wrote: »

but chalk is mostly calcium carbonate (CaCO3), so i'm not sure how you will avoid that unless there is a substantial amount of flavouring! I've never really taken calcium but drink enriched oatmilk which contains it. Most soys milks are also enriched with it (I seem to remember that you are also vegan).

yey on the postcount

Dam. Chalk just tastes nasty. I could get enough calcium if my diet was all healthy but I don't even drink enough soy milk (or any other kind) to get the calcium from it.

Sapsorrow

Aoifums wrote: »

I could get enough calcium if my diet was all healthy.

It's nearly impossible to get the optimal amount for bone preservation naturally, especially if you're vegan but it's still uncommon in regular carnivores etc.
You would have to consume a lot of dairy to meet the RDAs but then dairy's so acidifying that that increases bone loss in itself and therefore as a calcium source is a bit of a contradiction. It's far more sensible to just take a supplement because we need to supplement vitamin D anyway and so it's no more hassle to take a vitamin D/calcium all in one. Virtually no one in Ireland is getting enough calcium of vitamin D to provide optimal protection against bone disease according to statisics.
so as vegans and vegetarians we need to be even more careful as we eat a lot of phytate and oxalate containing foods (beans, lentils, grains and soya) and eat less or no dairy.