England V Argentina. Sat 14th. 14:30. SS2

toomevara

England

Monye; Cueto, Hipkiss, Geraghty, Banahan; Wilkinson, Hodgson; Payne, Hartley, Bell, Deacon, Borthwick (capt), Croft, Moody, Haskell.

Replacements: Thompson, Doran-Jones, Lawes, Worsley, Care, Goode, Erinle.

Argentina

Agulla; Borges, Tiesi, Rodriguez, Comuzzi; Fernandez, Lalanne; Roncero, Ledesma, Scelzo, Lozada, Albacete, Leonardi, Abadie, Fernandez-Lobbe (capt).

Replacements: Basualdo, Ayerza, Carizza, Campos, Figuerola, Urdapilleta, Aramburu.

Argentina have got to be eyeing this one. England were, frankly, rubbish against the wallabies last weekend. Programmed automatons with no spark, no plan B. Guys like Care and Geraghty playing week-in,week-out with dash and intelligence suddenly look like robots in a white jersey....

Argentina have injury problems of their own (no Hernandez, Leguizamon, Dr. Phil) but I reckon the Puma scrum is going to take England to the cleaners. Fascinating game in prospect.

thomond2006

I can't believe Johnson has not got rid of Banahan and switched positions between Monye and Cueto.

Fernandez played against Ireland in '08 and didn't look up to it. He'll be outclassed by JW.

England by less than 7 and Wilkinson to get all the points.

Judgement Day

Yeah, have to agree if England lose this one they should hang Martin Johnson and the selectors from the goal posts. Also go with you on Jonno to score all the points - including a try.

Beanmachine

Roncero, Ledesma, Scelzo, what a front row!! i think Payne Hartley and bell could really struggle in the scrum.I just think England will have to much for them out wide.
Can't believe banahan kept his place on the wing if Strettle didn't get injured last week I'm sure he would have at least been in the squad.

Digifriendly

thomond2006 wrote: »

I can't believe Johnson has not got rid of Banahan and switched positions between Monye and Cueto.

Totally agree. Banahan is one dimensional and Monye is a class winger but definitely not a full back. Wouldn't be surprised if Argentina nip this one. Too few changes made from last Saturday's side.

anonymous_joe

thomond2006 wrote: »

I can't believe Johnson has not got rid of Banahan and switched positions between Monye and Cueto.

Fernandez played against Ireland in '08 and didn't look up to it. He'll be outclassed by JW.

England by less than 7 and Wilkinson to get all the points.

Aye, I remember that game (one of the most miserable internationals I've ever been to.) He wasn't up to much.

Where's he playing now though? I've heard him mentioned as a good player so he's obviously come on leaps and bounds.

The thing with the Argentinians is that they've some great outside backs there, but the midfield's a bit too weak to actually exploit that, and I still doubt they'd be up to England's standard anyway. On a bright sunny day, I could see England's very lateral attacking play running in a few tries. On a wet miserable October afternoon, England will be stuck battling the Argentinians up front with a fairly shíte pack, backrow excepted.

Stev_o

Beanmachine wrote: »

Roncero, Ledesma, Scelzo, what a front row!! i think Payne Hartley and bell could really struggle in the scrum.I just

And to think they have the luxury of having Ayzera on the bench, one of the best props in the world!

thomond2006

Who does the Argie TH Scelzo play for?

laugh

Has Conters played since the Heineken semi?

Chucky the tree

Who would people pick ahead of Banahan?

Beanmachine

Stev_o wrote: »

And to think they have the luxury of having Ayzera on the bench, one of the best props in the world!

Yeah every time ive seen him play for Leicester he's been brilliant scrummages really well and plays like a back rower in open play!!

Scelzo and Ledesma both play for Clermont, Roncero regarded as one of the best loose-heads in the world plays for stade.

Beanmachine

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Who would people pick ahead of Banahan?

If you look at England's elite squad they don't have any other wing apart from Strettle who was injured last week,Only other option would be to play monye on the wing and Foden at full back which in my view would bring a much better balance to the back three, Monye just doesn't look comfortable at full back.

anonymous_joe

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Who would people pick ahead of Banahan?

As Beanmachine said - a full back and two wings, rather than three wings.

zAbbo

Paul Doran-Jones on the bench, he was playing with Lansdowne a few years back, couldn't get a lookin with Leinster!

Erinle, Duncan Bell, Andy Goode - says it all

Injury has ravaged that English side, but that's one of the poorest squads they'll ever have.

We've lads like Horgan, Trimble, Stringer, Ross & Neil Best playing for our A's who'd walk into that England starting XV

thomond2006

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Who would people pick ahead of Banahan?

Play Monye on the wing and bring back Balshaw at FB.

Hi, my name is Sir Clive.

Stev_o

If we were missing 13 players we'd be hockeyed by every team we'd play, give England some respect they are battling it out and coming out of these games with a bit of dignity.

Also Duncan Bell is a extremely under-rated player his skill set for a 35 year old prop is extremely impressive and he managed to up the tempo of Englands attack when he came on.

Chucky the tree

Beanmachine wrote: »

If you look at England's elite squad they don't have any other wing apart from Strettle who was injured last week,Only other option would be to play monye on the wing and Foden at full back which in my view would bring a much better balance to the back three, Monye just doesn't look comfortable at full back.

Certainly not a bad choice, but with Foden being a bit shakey at full back at time I don't think starting Monye is a terrible call. Certainly doesn't deserve some stupid OTT comments we've seen in this thread.

zAbbo wrote: »

We've lads like Horgan, Trimble, Stringer, Ross & Neil Best playing for our A's who'd walk into that England starting XV

Ah hang on. Horgan might make the team, but Cueto at 14 is a very good player. Seriously is Banahan any less of one dimensional oaf compared to Horgan? Banahan at 22 is looking far more impressive then Horgan did at 22. One dimensional oafs can still be very useful. Trimble wouldn't make the team or even the squad. I wouldn't start stringer either. Hodgson has been excellent this season and has been playing regularly for LI who are 2nd in the GP, I'd much rather a guy getting regular game time over the bench warmer unless there is a drastic difference in skill which there isnt. Ross I will definitely give you. Neil Best I'm not having ahead of Moody, wouldnt have him on the squad ahead of Worsley either. I agree with Stev, I suppose because it's England and people cant take off their green shade people they love going OTT on there problems and sticking the boot in.

old boy

with a few injurys healed, they are going to trouble a lot of teams in the 6 nations, i have them backed for the championship, probably due to all the medication that i am on at the moment.

anonymous_joe

I actually think France have the best team atm, England second best in the 6 Nations. That's injuries aside.

zAbbo

This game is on SS2

toomevara

BBC Radio 5 Live coming from Twickers this aft. Campo on the panel, some interesting points being advanced. Weather atrocious apparently, could be a dour affair.

anonymous_joe

toomevara wrote: »

BBC Radio 5 Live coming from Twickers this aft. Campo on the panel, some interesting points being advanced. Weather atrocious apparently, could be a dour affair.

Argentina are playing, and missing their two playmakers. Of course it'll be dour.

handsomecake

this is going to be a bore fest. paint vs dry

Stev_o

Every match has been though, standard of rugby has just been "Lets beat two shades of **** into these lads" hence why im hoping the Fiji Scotland match will be a cracker.

England should win handy in this game once they get decent possession, the Argies won't be up to much though they do have a decent SH.

Redsoxfan

Any idea why England are wearing purple as their alternative kit?

Stev_o

Redsoxfan wrote: »

Any idea why England are wearing purple as their alternative kit?

It's dark blue, beats that awfull red strip they had before.

Crash

No its not, its purple.

http://www.prodirectrugby.com/prodinfo.asp?PID=PDR-010-009-028&DEPT=010&BRAND=009

(Assuming its that one they're wearing, not watching the game)

Redsoxfan

Stev_o wrote: »

It's dark blue, beats that awfull red strip they had before.

On HD it's purple

sneem-man

Redsoxfan wrote: »

Any idea why England are wearing purple as their alternative kit?

Apparently its because of the Purple tracksuit top, worn by England players in the 70s 80s and 90s

Stev_o

Redsoxfan wrote: »

On HD it's purple

Well la de da rub it in my face why don't you Haha

toomevara

Christ, poor Monye...shepherd's crook time, an FB he is most definitely not...dire, dire stuff from England, desperately poor game....

Stev_o

If only Brian Moore was commentating.

toomevara

Stev_o wrote: »

If only Brian Moore was commentating.

Listening to the game on BBC radio. They've just apologised on air for comments Moore made which "some people might have found offensive before the match". Know what he said?

Stev_o

toomevara wrote: »

Listening to the game on BBC radio. They've just apologised on air for comments Moore made which "some people might have found offensive before the match". Know what he said?

Probably more of this i assume

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTQWT-B0EBw

toomevara

God, if this is international standard rugby I'm the shah of Iran...shocking, shocking stuff, Christ I'm glad I didn't pay £65 to see this dross.

Stev_o

toomevara wrote: »

God, if this is international standard rugby I'm the shah of Iran...shocking, shocking stuff, Christ I'm glad I didn't pay £65 to see this dross.

Shall be updating this thread today me thinks.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055658746

zAbbo

This is woeful

toomevara

toomevara wrote: »

God, if this is international standard rugby I'm the shah of Iran...shocking, shocking stuff, Christ I'm glad I didn't pay £65 to see this dross.

*shrug* What did you expect? Its England and Argentina. Neither are known for setting the world alight. Its all about the beef and 10 man rugby. Nothing new here.

mink_man

score?

9-9.

cruiserweight

Finally a score in the second half, a try for England

thomond2006

score/time update?

cruiserweight

thomond2006 wrote: »

score/time update?

England 16 Argentina 9, 71minutes

handsomecake

toomevara wrote: »

God, if this is international standard rugby I'm the shah of Iran...shocking, shocking stuff, Christ I'm glad I didn't pay £65 to see this dross.

big time. its complete and utter tosh.whats worse is that it will be even more conservative and defence oriented come 2011 world cup as the stakes are higher

toomevara

Deleted User wrote: »

*shrug* What did you expect? Its England and Argentina. Neither are known for setting the world alight. Its all about the beef and 10 man rugby. Nothing new here.

Yeah, must be the eternal optimist in me, but you'd expect full time professionals to, at the very least, be able to perform the basic skills of the game with some facility....alas not here...

Argentina time only together since Sunday for first time in 4 months lads. Was never gonna be a huge performance from them.

England are shocking.

Wooden spoon 6nations looms if they don't sort themselves out

toomevara

toomevara wrote: »

Yeah, must be the eternal optimist in me, but you'd expect full time professionals to, at the very least, be able to perform the basic skills of the game with some facility....alas not here...

yea fair enough. Englands mid-field was shocking, even by their standards. It seemed to be a case of shuffle it along to Banahan or turf it in the air and hope for an Argy mistake.

Then again, one needs to take stock of their multitude of injuries. To keep it respectable against Australia and win today was kinda impressive, all things considered.

andrewdcs

Monye.

/facepalm

little173

Johnsons selection of Moyne at full back really is a terrible bit of management. With the over reliance on Kicking from deep in rugby games now, the most important thing a FB needs to do is catch and field balls and then kick them back. That is what makes Kearney such a good player, he is superb at high balls and his error count is maybe one per game.

England were poor, but their forwards kept at it against a pretty decent Arg pack, and their back row is still pretty talented, but their decision making at half back was woeful and their backs were very limited.

thomond2006

Missed game.

How was Paul Hodgson/Wilkinson/Geraghty axis today?

Judgement Day

It was a dismal game and Jonno's field kicking was fairly woeful, Hodgson makes 'Two Steps' Whitaker look like Speedy Gonzalez but Geraghty was OK. Moody, Wilkinson and Cueto were the only English players to acquit themeselves with any dignity. Monye couldn't catch a cold and should be dropped from the squad and Martin Johnson should get the push before the 6 Nations - fat chance! :mad: