Brother's new baby

bridget T

hi not sure if its right place to post.
my brother and his wife recently had first child.
problem is my parents havent seen their only granchild yet, my father isnt in the best of health so isnt in a position to go to the house.
they havent been asked as of yet.

the brothers wife is extremely cool with my family, often ignores us and is never happy to see us.
at a family function , pre baby arrival, my brothers wife totally ignored us, didnt even greet us or acknowledge us.(my brother wasnt there). mostly women at function. hardly any of the sister in laws family spoke to us.

the problem is nothing was ever done to her, no falling out no bad words.
my parents aided them financially from their savings when they needed it(not that my parents had money to throw away).

i and the other siblings have called to see baby, but again coolness from sister in law even ignorin us, and not wanted there atmosphere, her family can come and go as please we have to make appointments.

just trying to understand is this normal for a brothers wife etc.
or is this normal to be left outside like this.

its particulary hard on my father, as he is lucky to be alive, and its really upsetting him, not having seen the baby.

my brother was told about the behaviour of his wife at the function, (please note my mother was extremely upset), he spoke to his wife, her response was she had nothing in common with my mother.

i would be greatful of some opinions

dublingal80

Why are your parents waiting to be invited over to see their grandchild? Why didnt they just pop up to the hospital, or since your dad is poorly, why dont you or your parents ask your bro to go over with the baby

Some women can be extremely strange and we could be here for the next year trying to understand your sis in law, but the most important thing is for your parents to get to know their new grandchild and for the baby to get to know them. So call your bro, tell him that your parents are dying to see the baby, and could he call over the weekend so they can goo and gaa at it

martdalto

bridget T wrote: »

just trying to understand is this normal for a brothers wife etc.
or is this normal to be left outside like this.

It's not normal, but surprisingly common.

I don't really know what you can do if your dad can't go to see them. The best you can hope for is to speak to your brother and hope that he can stand up to his wife and be "allowed" bring his own baby to see your parents.

I don't know about "they haven't been asked". Why wait for an invitation? I know your sil is difficult, but by pandering to her you are allowing and accepting her treatment of you. Your family has as much right to visit your brother and his child as her family have. I'm sure her family don't need to be "invited" I'm sure they just go?

If you drive, or one of your siblings, could you bring your mam & dad to them. That way, you are on hand to bring your dad home if he's not up to it. Ring your brother, tell him you are coming over, ask him what time suits best and just go.

Yes your sil wll sit there with a face on her. She will possibly ignore you. May not even be in the same room as you. But so what? At the end of the day, she has no right to deny the child a relationship with the rest of the family - just because she's a saucy cow!

You are allowing and accepting her behaviour toward you... that why she continues to treat you that way. Has anyone ever challenged her on it? Do you make any effort to try speak to her (at the function for example) or do you just stay away because you know she won't bother? Start showing her up in front of others. Always smile and be polite, say hello, and wait for an answer. If she turns her back or responds with silence, she will be the one who looks foolish.

The best you can do is always be cheery and friendly, that way she can never accuse you of ignoring HER, or being bitchy towards her. (Well she might accuse you, but others will have seen her in action!)

LegacyUser

I have a sister in law like that and it's really hard to deal with. She makes us feel like a piece of dirt if we're visiting their house and takes no part in anything to do with our family. Nobody can reason with her, including my brother and he ends up getting the cold shoulder if he tries to stand up for our family. So I know where you're coming from!

Your brother is trying to keep all sides happy but he does need to stand up more for your family and make sure that your parents get to see the child. That's so important. If he doesnt try to establish some ground rules with her at this stage, then it'll only get worse. Try to talk to him and explain you're not trying to cause trouble but that it's really important to your parents to see their grandchild. Could he bring the child to your parents house on his own and leave his wife at home? That would probably be easier on all involved.

LegacyUser

The brother has his OWN family now-can you not realise how intrusive it is that you are being so selfish and wanting to take up all his time with non-stop visits? The priority for him should be his wife and baby and IMO he has those priorities right. I'm not particularly close with my partner's family. I am with him and did not take all his family on when we got together.
If she is fine with her family coming over, thats her business but its nothing to do with you. Your brother has made his choice and has decided his family come first, and if that means cutting down contact with you, thats just something you'll have to come to terms with because this is YOUR issue and that of your family-the brother has his own unit now and you'll just have to get over it.
BTW, you can't solve your parents problem with this-it sounds like you have little to worry about and spend all your time dissing the sister in law. Maybe you should realise its not nice to be talked about behind your back and all of you should grow up a bit.

CathyMoran

I imagine that the SIL has some issues with your father, though I cant imagine what they are. Your parents have a right to see their grandchild bot maybe your brother could bring out the baby?

Whispered

dont agree wrote: »

The brother has his OWN family now-can you not realise how intrusive it is that you are being so selfish and wanting to take up all his time with non-stop visits? The priority for him should be his wife and baby and IMO he has those priorities right. I'm not particularly close with my partner's family. I am with him and did not take all his family on when we got together.
If she is fine with her family coming over, thats her business but its nothing to do with you. Your brother has made his choice and has decided his family come first, and if that means cutting down contact with you, thats just something you'll have to come to terms with because this is YOUR issue and that of your family-the brother has his own unit now and you'll just have to get over it.
BTW, you can't solve your parents problem with this-it sounds like you have little to worry about and spend all your time dissing the sister in law. Maybe you should realise its not nice to be talked about behind your back and all of you should grow up a bit.

I wonder if this is the SIL? :rolleyes:

OP did not say he wanted to visit ALL the time. In fact he said that his parents had not met their grandchild at all yet.

Could you speak to your brother about this? Surely he wants the grandparents to be involved. How old is the baby?

LegacyUser

dont agree wrote: »

The brother has his OWN family now-can you not realise how intrusive it is that you are being so selfish and wanting to take up all his time with non-stop visits? The priority for him should be his wife and baby and IMO he has those priorities right. I'm not particularly close with my partner's family. I am with him and did not take all his family on when we got together.
If she is fine with her family coming over, thats her business but its nothing to do with you. Your brother has made his choice and has decided his family come first, and if that means cutting down contact with you, thats just something you'll have to come to terms with because this is YOUR issue and that of your family-the brother has his own unit now and you'll just have to get over it.
BTW, you can't solve your parents problem with this-it sounds like you have little to worry about and spend all your time dissing the sister in law. Maybe you should realise its not nice to be talked about behind your back and all of you should grow up a bit.

You sound like a horrid person. God help your partner's family. Didn't you ever hear that "It's nice to be nice". ;-)

The poster's sister in law sounds like a very selfish lady and should consider the feelings of her inlaws, even if she "has nothing in common" with them. As another poster suggested, always try and smile and be nice to her then she can't say ye did anything to her.

Keep asking your brother to bring the baby for a visit, and say if his wife doesn't feel up to it ye will understand.

He was part of your family first. Just because someone gets married or sets up home with someone else, doesn't mean that they should dump the family they came from.

Peggypeg

dont agree wrote: »

The brother has his OWN family now-can you not realise how intrusive it is that you are being so selfish and wanting to take up all his time with non-stop visits? The priority for him should be his wife and baby and IMO he has those priorities right. I'm not particularly close with my partner's family. I am with him and did not take all his family on when we got together.
If she is fine with her family coming over, thats her business but its nothing to do with you. Your brother has made his choice and has decided his family come first, and if that means cutting down contact with you, thats just something you'll have to come to terms with because this is YOUR issue and that of your family-the brother has his own unit now and you'll just have to get over it.
BTW, you can't solve your parents problem with this-it sounds like you have little to worry about and spend all your time dissing the sister in law. Maybe you should realise its not nice to be talked about behind your back and all of you should grow up a bit.

Wow!!! Hey OP, did you mention to the SIL that you'd be posting here? Does she sound like the poster above? I bet it's her, she sounds awful!!!

God help you, sounds to me like the only one that can fix this is your brother, can you talk to him about it? It sounds like she's walking all over him.

CathyMoran

She has just had a baby, she is probaby exhausted with all the feeds as is the brother...yes, the grandparents should see the baby unless they had a serious falling out that you do not know about. Am currenty pregnant but my husband has 6 brothers and sisters, if all of them came and saw me just after the baby I would get stressed...have seen it with family, you let the mum, dad and baby bond for the first while then in a few weeks you see the baby...

OS119

OP, i think we need a bit more detail, like how old the baby is - whether her family live round the corner while yours live 3 hrs away, whether your Brother makes much of an effort without her around, etc...

otherwise... your SIL is not required by law to like your family, neither is she required to pretend to like them and make them feel comfortable in her house. the only people with rights over the child are its parents, it is entirely up to them to decide who sees the child, who has a relationship with the child and indeed who they associate with. you don't know the nature of the conversations they have behind closed doors, or indeed if your Brother shares her feelings but doesn't have the courage to act on them.

unfortunately, as it is, you've spoken to your brother, let him know you think there's a problem and yet he's done nothing about it - that tells me he either doesn't have a problem with the problem, or that the dynamic within his marriage is that his concerns don't matter a whole lot. both of which are entirely matters for him, and none of your, or your families, business.

sorry.

bridget T

All my Brothers family live nearby bout 5 mins away,his wifes family live half an hour away. baby is nearly one month.

My brother has full contact with all his (my) family, on speaking terms with parents and siblings. He often calls to his home place.


What upsets me most is all the extended relations on his wifes side have seen the baby, and the babies paternal grandparents havent. There was never a falling out. At this stage SIL can like who she likes or doesnt just because we are related to my brother we dont expect her to like us, thats her business, we would just like to know our brothers child.

at the end of the day my brother was never ill treated as a child he had an extremely well balanced childhood. Parents never fought in 30 years. it would be nice to see someting given back to his parents.( ie to be allowed to see the child)

please note,on any visit we made, my brother asked us to call, and gave us the appropriate time. so we were not calling hilly nilly at our own leisure.

well tis obivous from the postings theres another one like her out there.

CathyMoran

Has the SIL ever been made feel unwelcome? Is she still feeling self conscous about the baby weight? The baby is only a month old... It seems that the SIL does not feel welcomed by your family (am not aportioning blame)...there needs to be an olive branch somewhere but I imagine that your SIL is still exhausted/overwhelmed by the birth.

wantolose

its a hard one, there seems to be one in every family, my sister is acting like a divia for the last few weeks, she will not let anyone see the kids, i think she is off her head:rolleyes:

LegacyUser

OS119 wrote: »

OP, i think we need a bit more detail, like how old the baby is - whether her family live round the corner while yours live 3 hrs away, whether your Brother makes much of an effort without her around, etc...

otherwise... your SIL is not required by law to like your family, neither is she required to pretend to like them and make them feel comfortable in her house. the only people with rights over the child are its parents, it is entirely up to them to decide who sees the child, who has a relationship with the child and indeed who they associate with. you don't know the nature of the conversations they have behind closed doors, or indeed if your Brother shares her feelings but doesn't have the courage to act on them.

unfortunately, as it is, you've spoken to your brother, let him know you think there's a problem and yet he's done nothing about it - that tells me he either doesn't have a problem with the problem, or that the dynamic within his marriage is that his concerns don't matter a whole lot. both of which are entirely matters for him, and none of your, or your families, business.

sorry.

Yes, the brother is an adult and he wants to dance to his wife's tune, thats entirely up to him. OP, Your brother doesn't owe his parents for bringing him up, everyone is entitled to a happy childhood. If he has decided your part of the family does not need to be facilitated in the same manner as his wife's, well, there isn't much you or your parents can do. You've told him you want to see baby and he doesn't seem bothered about it so maybe you'll just have to wait until it suits him and her- they are a family now remeber and the OP above said they get to decide who is in the baby's life. It might not suit you but you or your parents have no "right" to see this child.

SarahSassy

Why are the men stupid enough to marry these bints in first place????

Why wont your brother bring the baby over? In my eyes, the fault lies fully with him, he is your family, he married her and he is allowing this behaviour and situation. Tell him to cop on and bring the baby to see your Dad.

OS119

SarahSassy wrote: »

Tell him to cop on and bring the baby to see your Dad.

she did. he didn't. unlucky.

Chinafoot

CathyMoran wrote: »

Has the SIL ever been made feel unwelcome? Is she still feeling self conscous about the baby weight? The baby is only a month old... It seems that the SIL does not feel welcomed by your family (am not aportioning blame)...there needs to be an olive branch somewhere but I imagine that your SIL is still exhausted/overwhelmed by the birth.

From the sound of the original post, this behaviour hasn't just been since the baby so you can't place it all on the the pregnancy/tiredness/hormones.

Its absolutely disgraceful that the grandparents havent seen the baby yet. I'm sure your brother is aware of your fathers predicament and he should definitely sort something out. Your sister-in-laws behaviour strikes me as incredibly unnecessary if nothing bad has ever passed between her and the family. This attitude of "I married my partner not his family" is all well and good, but when its to the point of rudeness and complete exclusion it needs to be sorted. Your brother needs to get himself a spine and sort this out with his missus.

Marrying someone doesn't erase your family and anyone who expects that of their partner is a disgusting human being tbh.

martdalto

i agree wrote: »

It might not suit you but you or your parents have no "right" to see this child.

Not strictly true.

From treoir.ie...

Any person related to a child or who has acted as a parent to the child can apply to the court for permission to apply for access to a child.

http://www.treoir.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=22

It means that any relation can ask a judge for permission to apply for access to a child. Unless there is strong reasons for access to be denied, it is usually granted!

CathyMoran

martdalto wrote: »

Not strictly true.

From treoir.ie...

Any person related to a child or who has acted as a parent to the child can apply to the court for permission to apply for access to a child.

http://www.treoir.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=22

It means that any relation can ask a judge for permission to apply for access to a child. Unless there is strong reasons for access to be denied, it is usually granted!

That is red rag to a bull, the baby is only a month old, give the mother time...

martdalto

No Cathy, I wasn't for a second suggesting that Bridget and her family go about this!!

I was just pointing out to "i agree" that what s/he said wasn't strictly true.

SarahSassy

I think people are missing the point... What is the brothers involvement in all this? Why is the SIL being lambasted when he wont grow a pair and bring the baby himself to see his sick Dad....

Darthhoob

she is being unreasonable, not being funny but a month is more than enough time to get over the "i'm not upto visitors" period (which generally only lasts a few days and she was fine with her own family). she may have married him and not his family but his family IS the babies family too, they are his uncles, aunties and grandparents and it's not fair to those people OR the baby that she is not allowing them to see him.

that said i have to say the fault is nearly all with the OP's brother for allowing her to be that way....it's his baby too and his family and he should cop on and tell her they have as much right as her family do! even taking the baby to see them...unless he is under her thumb and not allowed to take his own child anywhere :rolleyes:

it's a shame many mothers are like this (i know a few). for me it was the other way round LOL. i get on with OH's family better than my own.

OS119

martdalto wrote: »

No Cathy, I wasn't for a second suggesting that Bridget and her family go about this!!

I was just pointing out to "i agree" that what s/he said wasn't strictly true.

actually it is true, they have no right of access to the child: a court has the right - should they apply for access and after that court has deliberated and taken account of the parents wishes - to give them access to the child, but they themselves have no intrinsic rights of access to the child.

given how seriously Ireland concernes itself with fathers rights of access, you can imagine how it treats even court ordered grand-parental access...

obviously even if it were taken seriously, its a non-starter - even if the Brother isn't keen on the current state of affairs, he'd go mental if a summons came through the door and you'd never see them again. looks good on paper, utterly unenforcable...

Chinafoot

CathyMoran wrote: »

That is red rag to a bull, the baby is only a month old, give the mother time...

Cathy, I appreciate that its often difficult to look beyond ones own situation and I know that you're pregnant at the moment (congrats btw) but I really feel its unfair to put all of this on the arrival of the baby. The behaviour was present before the baby.

OP, have you tried speaking to the sister in law yourself? Perhaps tell her, in a polite non-confrontational way, that your father would love to see the baby. If it was me I'd be giving the brother an right earful with the back-up of my other siblings. He's being so unfair by placating this woman, your parents must be very, very hurt by this.

Paul4As

SarahSassy wrote: »

I think people are missing the point... What is the brothers involvement in all this? Why is the SIL being lambasted when he wont grow a pair and bring the baby himself to see his sick Dad....

SarahSassy is absolutely right!!! The brother needs to grow a pair!!! The situation is not going to change until his woose attitude in relation to his wife disappears!!!

OS119

Darthhoob wrote: »

she is being unreasonable, not being funny but a month is more than enough time to get over the "i'm not upto visitors" period (which generally only lasts a few days and she was fine with her own family). she may have married him and not his family but his family IS the babies family too, they are his uncles, aunties and grandparents and it's not fair to those people OR the baby that she is not allowing them to see him.

she - correction: they - have that right. they have the right to determine who, and under what circumstances, gets to spend time with their child. you may not like their choices, and you may even disagree that the arbiters of what happens in a childs life are its parents (though i suspect that you'd agree with the principle in your own childs case), but the absolute hard fact is that, unless a court says otherwise - and good luck with that - the parents have the right to refuse access to whomsoever the fcuk they like.

unfortunate, unpleasent, but one of the big, fat principles of parenting: you're responsible, so you get to make the decisions.

CathyMoran

Chinafoot wrote: »

Cathy, I appreciate that its often difficult to look beyond ones own situation and I know that you're pregnant at the moment (congrats btw) but I really feel its unfair to put all of this on the arrival of the baby. The behaviour was present before the baby.

OP, have you tried speaking to the sister in law yourself? Perhaps tell her, in a polite non-confrontational way, that your father would love to see the baby. If it was me I'd be giving the brother an right earful with the back-up of my other siblings. He's being so unfair by placating this woman, your parents must be very, very hurt by this.

I suppose that it is a bit personal, I became an aunt for the first time this morning but the mother and I do not get on, I am not sure that she even realises it but she has been very cruel and insensitive to me over my multiple miscarriages as well as making nasty comments about my weight all the time (until pregnancy I was only a size 6-8 but she is a lot skinnier), she does not seem to get that I could not bear to see a pregnant woman the day that I miscarried yet again. I did sent congrats to the dad but I am finding it hard with my SIL.

There has to be a reason that the SIL has issues with the famity but they should have been sorted a long time ago - she does not have to like his family but she should not stop the baby seeing the family.

SarahSassy

CathyMoran wrote: »

she does not have to like his family but she should not stop the baby seeing the family.

This is at the crux of the matter but Ill repeat myself again - where is the actual family member i.e. the childs Father in all this? Why is he getting away with it and the SIL being blamed. In this instance, she has an attitude problem but I personally would not marry someone in the first place who would treat my family with disdain.

SS

PS Cathy - Congrats!!!

CathyMoran

She does not have to like the in-laws...but she has to love her husband. It kills me that I can not get on with my husbands brothers wife, I have tried and tried but I do not want stress now.

The son should just let his parents see the baby, be a man.

Darthhoob

OS119 wrote: »

she - correction: they - have that right. they have the right to determine who, and under what circumstances, gets to spend time with their child. you may not like their choices, and you may even disagree that the arbiters of what happens in a childs life are its parents (though i suspect that you'd agree with the principle in your own childs case), but the absolute hard fact is that, unless a court says otherwise - and good luck with that - the parents have the right to refuse access to whomsoever the fcuk they like.

unfortunate, unpleasent, but one of the big, fat principles of parenting: you're responsible, so you get to make the decisions.

yeah but i didn't say she was being unlawful i said she was being unreasonable.

i agree that the parents should have responsibility, of course they should. but that doesn't give them the right to act like twats

OS119

yes, it does. they have the right not to involve his family.

people can bitch about the Brother, but he's obviously made his decision. if he doesn't want to involve his family - for whatever reason - then thats his right.

why do they have the be 'twats' just for making a decision about offending other peoples sense of entitlement regarding their child?

Chinafoot

OS119 wrote: »

why do they have the be 'twats' just for making a decision about offending other peoples sense of entitlement regarding their child?

Well from what the OP said there is no reason for this "decision". The OPs brother has a good relationship with his family. He also questioned his wife over her behaviour towards his mother. If this was a man entirely happy with the decision his wife has made he would not have bothered questioning her.

If you think its entirely reasonable to keep a child from their grandparents simply because you can - and lets face it, there appears to be no reason for this - then we'll have to simply agree to disagree. I personally wouldn't deprive my child of their extended family and I think grandparents are hugely important to a childs life.

implausible

OS119 wrote: »

yes, it does. they have the right not to involve his family.

people can bitch about the Brother, but he's obviously made his decision. if he doesn't want to involve his family - for whatever reason - then thats his right.

why do they have the be 'twats' just for making a decision about offending other peoples sense of entitlement regarding their child?

This is nothing to do with entitlement, it's a baby, not some disputed goods for feck's sake! Whatever has gone on in the past, real or perceived, should be completely irrelevant when it comes to a small child. That kid deserves to have a relationship with its grandparents.

Like it or not, when you marry someone, you marry into their family, faults and all, whether you like it or not. Unless, some dreadful things have happened in the past, there is no need for the sil to act in such a childish way.

OS119

actually the OP made it clear that there is a reason for the SIL's behaviour: she doesn't like his family.

now the OP says that the Brother has questioned his wife about her attitude, and that she replied that she 'just doesn't like them' - to paraphrase - and the evidence is that the Brother has accepted that and gone along with it.

how keen he is on that is entirely a matter for debate, but as it was a conversation held behind closed doors, and he'd be unlikely to give a verbatum account of what was said (he is married to the woman, he has a child with her - its likely his loyalties lie in her direction, even if he initiallty tried to 'mediate') its all rather moot.

the Brother and SIL have come to a decision regarding their child, and regardless of who pushed for that decision or how keen the other was, thats now their decision, and everyone else - bar a court ruling - just has to live with it.

implausible

OS119 wrote: »

actually the OP made it clear that there is a reason for the SIL's behaviour: she doesn't like his family.

now the OP says that the Brother has questioned his wife about her attitude, and that she replied that she 'just doesn't like them' - to paraphrase - and the evidence is that the Brother has accepted that and gone along with it.

how keen he is on that is entirely a matter for debate, but as it was a conversation held behind closed doors, and he'd be unlikely to give a verbatum account of what was said (he is married to the woman, he has a child with her - its likely his loyalties lie in her direction, even if he initiallty tried to 'mediate') its all rather moot.

the Brother and SIL have come to a decision regarding their child, and regardless of who pushed for that decision or how keen the other was, thats now their decision, and everyone else - bar a court ruling - just has to live with it.

Not liking someone is NOT a reason to treat people like sh*t, especially family. It really doesn't sound like the sil and brother have come to a decision, it sounds like the sil is being a mare and the brother doesn't have the balls to do anything.

If they have in fact made a decision regarding their child and its access to its grandparents, they haven't thought very far ahead. Ultimately, it's the child who will suffer.

You don't sound like you have a lot of respect for family ties, but most people do. People don't choose their in-laws, but most wouldn't allow that to affect their children's relationship with them. These people are parents now and should be showing a good example, not carrying on in a childish manner and using an innocent child as a bargaining chip.

OS119

deemark wrote: »

Not liking someone is NOT a reason to treat people like sh*t,

its quite a good reason not to be involved with them though...

i have a fundamental problem with the idea that to deny other people access your kids is 'treating them like shit'. other people have no entitlement to have a relationship with your kids, so to deny them that is not treating them badly, or being horrible, its purely a decision that one group of adults makes about its dealings with another group of adults - no different to ending a friendship, putting a Boards poster on 'ignore' or not bothering going to a works night out.

i would argue that infact they may well be setting a good example - though their implementation of it sucks - of showing that its up to you who you socialise with, and not being coerced into maintaining social or familial relationships you don't actually enjoy just because its 'the done thing'.

and, you're right, i don't place great importance on DNA when it comes to deciding who is in my life - i'm not overly close to my parents because i don't like them much, i've not seen my brother in a decade or so because i think he's a knob - i base decisions regarding who i socialise with, and who my kids have relationships with, on the qualities of those people, not on whether they have the same chin as me.

ps: where's the 'games' or bargaining chip - there's no games, they just don't want to be involved.

martdalto

OS119 wrote: »

other people have no entitlement to have a relationship with your kids,

This is true, but the child has a right to a relationship with family members who have never done them any wrong! Access cases are about the childs right, not the mothers or fathers etc..

OS119

martdalto wrote: »

This is true, but the child has a right to a relationship with family members who have never done them any wrong! Access cases are about the childs right, not the mothers or fathers etc..

a childs rights are - in theory at least - determined and furthered by its parents working in its best interests. its for the parents to decide who the child should, in its best interests, have a relationship with - if the parents don't like a person or group of people, they are unlikely to think that its in the childs best interests for the child to be involved with them for entirely the same reason as the parents don't like them!

access cases are about the childs best interests - as determined by adults in the same way as its parents should be doing - it is astonishingly unlikely that grand-parental access to a child would be ordered in the case of an otherwise perfectly decent family environment where the parents vehermently opposed it (regardless of reason), purely on the basis that it would not be in the childs interest to introduce both conflict and upheaval in return for the kind of Grand-parental access that a court could impose.

it is unfortunate, and yes the world would be a nicer place if everybody just got along, but parents need significant freedom of action in order to carry out their duties - the downside of that freedom is being able to make decisions that other people don't like.

LegacyUser

martdalto wrote: »

This is true, but the child has a right to a relationship with family members who have never done them any wrong! Access cases are about the childs right, not the mothers or fathers etc..

The parents determine the child's rights and who it can or cannot have contact with. The OP has no rights over, as should be the case. How would anything be decided for a child if every family member got to have a say it how it was raised? Do the cousins over 18 have a right? Do the extended second and third cousins have the right? People on this thread seem to think all and sundry get to rock up to the house for a visit without respecting the decisions of the parents-the child is the responsiblity of its parents. We're only hearing "briget's" side here - for all we know the SIL has had enough of interference from her in-laws and told her husband that from now on they are a family. Maybe the SIL thinks her child (it is her and her husbands, not that of the extended family's) will be better off without much contact from the posters family-if thats the case, the OP's family will just have to get over it unless they want to go the legal route-that'll really endear them to the SIL.....OP, I think this is a problem that is not for you to solve. You can't badger your SIL into allowing you to see her child, it just doesn't work that way.

martdalto

An unmarried father has no automatic right to his child after birth. If the mother refuses to allow him to see the child the only thing he can do is go to court.

Just because she can stop them from saying their child doesn't mean she should.

No, Bridget and her family can't "badger" but if the situation persists, and if they want to persue it they will most probably be granted access through a court.

I have a friend who was physically, verbally and emotinally abused by her mother for years. She refused to let her son have anything to do with this woman. Her mother took her to court, and got unsupervised, overnight access to her grandson once a month.

My friend tried to argue in court, the judge possibly cranky that day, told her he was sick of "unreasonable mothers" (my friend, not her mother!) and said in no uncertain terms that if she didn't comply, and if her mother persued it, she would go to jail.

But I agree that Bridgets brother should be the one to blame here. Bridget and all her siblings have been allowed to see the baby, but the grandparents haven't yet... because, it would seem, the wife has "nothing in common" with her mil. I can't see that standing up in a court!!

Again not suggesting court, but if it was to persist and go that way...

OS119

martdalto wrote: »

I have a friend who was physically, verbally and emotinally abused by her mother for years. She refused to let her son have anything to do with this woman. Her mother took her to court, and got unsupervised, overnight access to her grandson once a month.

My friend tried to argue in court, the judge possibly cranky that day, told her he was sick of "unreasonable mothers" (my friend, not her mother!) and said in no uncertain terms that if she didn't comply, and if her mother persued it, she would go to jail.

But I agree that Bridgets brother should be the one to blame here. Bridget and all her siblings have been allowed to see the baby, but the grandparents haven't yet... because, it would seem, the wife has "nothing in common" with her mil. I can't see that standing up in a court!!

Again not suggesting court, but if it was to persist and go that way...

your friend needs a better lawyer - i mean that sincerely - i'm a member of a Childrens Panel in Scotland (different juristiction obviously, but we read judgements from all over the western world about the whole concept of access, reponsibility and child/family law and we, in the bounds of Scottish Law, take guidence from those judgements) and that is an astonishing judgement - i'm seriously appalled. i would advise the OP it is extremely unlikely that a similar judgement would be made should they decide to go to court.

a court is astonishingly unlikely to impose any visitation order on an otherwise entirely stable, loving family - the parents would be able to point out that the child was in no way suffering for its lack of relationship to relatives it doesn't know it has, and their lawyer will say that the parents geniuinely, sincerely and after much deliberation believe they are acting in the childs best interests - and end his evidence with 'and who are these people to believe they have rights over our child?', and the hammer will bang and the case will be dismissed.

gypsygirl

martdalto wrote: »

You are allowing and accepting her behaviour toward you... that why she continues to treat you that way. Has anyone ever challenged her on it? Do you make any effort to try speak to her (at the function for example) or do you just stay away because you know she won't bother? Start showing her up in front of others. Always smile and be polite, say hello, and wait for an answer. If she turns her back or responds with silence, she will be the one who looks foolish.

The best you can do is always be cheery and friendly, that way she can never accuse you of ignoring HER, or being bitchy towards her. (Well she might accuse you, but others will have seen her in action!)

Oohh, I loved this, I can use this advice in My life as I'm sure most of us can.
Excellent, it will either open up channels for communication or show her up for what she really is.

Jaysoose

What is it about families that encourage passive agressive behaviour, SIL is being a selfish biatch.

LegacyUser

A few posters are recommending that the brother should sort this out, I'm in a similar situation and I'm guessing that he has already tried....

1) As the OP has said there is passive aggressive behaviour coming from the SIL. This would suggest that it's a lot more aggressive in closed doors between the brother and his wife when he brings up the topic of the baby and his family. Whether for good or for bad no father wants to be the instigator of arguments around his first new baby.

2) It makes sense she's allowing her family come and go as they please because she feels comfortable around them. The brother could start putting a stop to this because of the lack of contact with his own family, but it would end up hurting the wrong people. I'd guess the SIL would rather cut off her own nose than let her inlaws near the baby.

3) Fundamentally she probably believes that their marriage comes first, above anything, so how much could you ask the brother to jeopardise this for his family?

4) This is the fathers first baby, he needs the help of the SIL to care after the baby so taking it away to see its grandparents against the permission of the mother could be seen as a harmful act to the child needs.

My only suggestion is that the OP and grand parents try and do the dirty work of figuring out why the SIL is uncooperative and insist on coming round to give a hand and help out as much as possible. But make sure it's done in full presence of the brother so he can confirm to his wife that they're doing this with all the best intentions.

In my situation I have to put up with accusations of back handed comments when my back is turned between my family and her and my partner always has to clean the house top to bottom every time my in-laws come round, never for hers!

Thanks,
S.

kelle

I agree your SIL is selfish, and think SarahSassy is spot on when she state she can't understand why men marry women like that. My brother was involved with a girl like that and, thank God (with encouragement from us) he got the f**k out of the relationship. He realised he was becoming so isolated because he was banned from seeing us and knew that was not what he wanted. Now he's married to a lovely girl.

In the same way, your brother is in danger of becoming isolated from his family if he doesn't take a bit more control. If breastfeeding is an excuse, it doesn't hold as they only live 5 minutes from you. Your brother can bring him over, and straight back home at the first sign of hunger.

I can guarantee you, OP, in a year's time your nephew will become very active and hard work to look after and your SIL will appreciate any help she can get from you minding him. At the moment, he just has to feed and sleep and she is possessive of him but that won't last long. So she would want to cop on and allow you to see baby.

martdalto

OS119 wrote: »

your friend needs a better lawyer

She went with a solicitor.. her mother went on her own. The judge didn't take kindly to my friend turning up with "re-enforcements" and didn't even let her solicitor speak! Seriously! You obviously don't have much experience of Irish family law courts!!!

She appealed it and was still ruled against.

Anyway, we seem to have gone completely off topic and turned this into something it's really not. Either way, sil is being bitchy towards her husbands family. Brother is being a wimp by not standing up to her, or else being a wimp by lying to his family about her (?) Either way he's being a wimp.

She says she has nothing in common with her mil... She has... HER HUSBAND!

Bridget, I think if they are not forthcoming in bringing the baby to see your parents, you are going to have to bring your parents to see the baby. Don't wait for an invitation. Were you "invited", or did you ask/tell your brother you would call over?

As I said, I think you are all pussy-footing around this woman (and yes, there are women out there who are just awkward and unreasonable for no other reason other than they are allowed to be!) Stop shying away from her, and start standing up for yourselves. I don't mean this with regard to the baby - I mean in everyday life.

D rog

Wow. I think people are being a little harsh here.
I can see there was an issue with the girl before the baby arrived, but the baby is only 1 month old. The SIL could have PND, feeding issues, recovery issues, be like a walking zombie- anything!
Give it another week or two, then by all means ye should give a quick call to the brother and just go over. Everything will settle into place much better when everyone's cooing over the baby and the ice may melt with a bit of luck.

OS119

martdalto wrote: »

Bridget, I think if they are not forthcoming in bringing the baby to see your parents, you are going to have to bring your parents to see the baby. Don't wait for an invitation. Were you "invited", or did you ask/tell your brother you would call over?

As I said, I think you are all pussy-footing around this woman (and yes, there are women out there who are just awkward and unreasonable for no other reason other than they are allowed to be!) Stop shying away from her, and start standing up for yourselves. I don't mean this with regard to the baby - I mean in everyday life.

i'm sorry, are you saying that people have the right, uninvited, to barge into other peoples homes?

they aren't wanted. thats it. subject closed.

CathyMoran

OK, will admit that I am reading all the maternity magazine at the moment so they are hardly reliable but they do say that you should get your partner/husnad to have a word with the well meaning family and give you a chance to bond with the baby for the first few weeks...the baby is only a month old.

OK, I know that my MIL/dad and hopefully my favorite SIL will be there but if all of them come along (that is including partners) I will go up the wall...you are talking 18 people...I can imagine that the SIL is just tired.

LegacyUser

I cant help but wonder, given the SIL's history of being off handish with the OP's family, will this situation change?
A certain amount of this behaviour can be put down to the drastic changes they are going through having a new born, but then do you stop making excuses for her?
2 months?6 months?a year?

i've had trouble with my brothers girlfriend in the past (shes now his ex), the really nail in the coffin being her complaining that my sister was hogging the tv room in our family when home.my sister had just returned home from hospital after having brain surgury and could barely move.

my point is, some girls are just like that and they arent going to change.
All i can advise the OP is to be super nice to her, it'll drive her mad!!

I'd say phone your brother and tell him that you want to bring your parents over some night soon,ask which nights suit,tell them you wont stay long what with your fathers ill health.Oh and bring something nice and pampering for the SIL, something just for her like a nice body lotion or a perfume. Im sure shes wrecked and would appreciate the pamering product.Its a genuine nice thought and might help soften her towards you and your family.