Accident at work

MGLman

Hi All,

I am not sure whether I am in the right forum, if it is the wrong one please accept my apology.

I wanted to ask your advice on an incident that happened to my friend who had injured at work.

Story is as follows:

She was called for 4 hours of cleaning work in the restaurant kitchen and while she was working she fell off on the floor and cut her hand by the nail that was stickinig out of the floor and had quite bad bleeding. Unfortuntelly, there was not any first aid kit and she had to call her friend to bring some cleaning stuff and bandages and so on. The owner of the restaurant did not do anything. She went to hospital straight away to get it checked and steched as it was quite deep and bleeding.

Now, she has recieved an invoice for 250 euro for the use of an emergency service and the owner of the restaurant claims that he has no liability to pay the this fee as he was hiring her to do the job and she has to have an insurance for her. But she was approached directly not through the company, so in this sense, I think she is being employed by him and he is liable to pay this fee.

The question is 'Who has to pay this fee? Is it herself or the owner of the restaurant as it was an accident happened in his permise?' Is there anywhere she could approach if the owner is still refuses to pay?



Thank you very much your advices.

General Zod

She should pay the bill then go to the small claims court.

Bill-e

General Zod wrote: »

She should pay the bill then go to the small claims court.

Yes, he should have to pay. He'd have to pay even if someone off the street was invited in and fell and got cut on that nail.

dr.bollocko

Moved from AH.

MGLman

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Moved from AH.

What does it mean?


Thanks a lot for you advices.

dr.bollocko

MGLman wrote: »

What does it mean?


Thanks a lot for you advices.

Sorry MGLMan, just to clarify, I have moved this request to a more relevant forum in the hope you get the answers you are looking for.

Blazer

MGLman wrote: »

What does it mean?


Thanks a lot for you advices.

It means he moved your post to a more suited forum.
Unless you wanted to get a load of stupid replies to your post and were in fact trolling?


Show some gratitude.
Stupid timelapse

MGLman

Berkut wrote: »

It means he moved your post to a more suited forum.
Unless you wanted to get a load of stupid replies to your post and were in fact trolling?


Show some gratitude.
Stupid timelapse

I see, thanks a lot. I am not an experienced baordy as can see. Where did you move?

Blazer

sorry...wasn't coming across as being cross

Pdfile

MGLman wrote: »

Hi All,

I am not sure whether I am in the right forum, if it is the wrong one please accept my apology.

I wanted to ask your advice on an incident that happened to my friend who had injured at work.

Story is as follows:

She was called for 4 hours of cleaning work in the restaurant kitchen and while she was working she fell off on the floor and cut her hand by the nail that was stickinig out of the floor and had quite bad bleeding. Unfortuntelly, there was not any first aid kit and she had to call her friend to bring some cleaning stuff and bandages and so on. The owner of the restaurant did not do anything. She went to hospital straight away to get it checked and steched as it was quite deep and bleeding.

Now, she has recieved an invoice for 250 euro for the use of an emergency service and the owner of the restaurant claims that he has no liability to pay the this fee as he was hiring her to do the job and she has to have an insurance for her. But she was approached directly not through the company, so in this sense, I think she is being employed by him and he is liable to pay this fee.

The question is 'Who has to pay this fee? Is it herself or the owner of the restaurant as it was an accident happened in his permise?' Is there anywhere she could approach if the owner is still refuses to pay?



Thank you very much your advices.

sue them to the hilt.

she started off cleaning the place, she'll own it soon enough. :cool:

mac36

Just to give a little advice to your friend...if she was in insurable employment she may be entitled to claim Disablement Benefit from the DSFA. I know this is not an answer to your question but just some additional information that might be useful.

craichoe

Pdfile wrote: »

sue them to the hilt.

she started off cleaning the place, she'll own it soon enough. :cool:

Amazing in Ireland on one hand in general people complain about high insurance costs and on the other you say "sue them to the hilt"

OP, he will have public liability insurance to cover it, although he'll probably pay out of his own pocket because his excess will probably be higher than her bills.

No need to go down the route of legal action just yet imo, just be firm and come to an arrangement.

seamus

In order for any court case to be successful, it would need to be shown that the restaurant owner was at fault - i.e. that they (or a member of their staff) had failed in their duty of care and directly caused the incident to happen.

In this case, she fell/slipped/whatever presumably because she had just cleaned somewhere and the surface was slippy. So the fault was hers. The location of the nail is incidental, the accident would still have occured even if that nail had not been there.

You could claim partial negligence on his part for the nail being there, but since the nail didn't *cause* the accident, it's only a bit-player in this.

The key as to her rights then lie in whether she's an employee (i.e. she had a contract of employment and is paid on a regular basis by the employer) or she's a casual worker/contractor.

If she's an employee, then he should have employer's liability insurance which will cover this and it's open-and-shut. If she's not an employee, he *may* have public liability insurance which will cover this, but they will need to see that the restaurant owner was at fault.

In short, if she's an employee I'd chase it. If she's not, I'd forget about it.

MGLman

seamus wrote: »

In order for any court case to be successful, it would need to be shown that the restaurant owner was at fault - i.e. that they (or a member of their staff) had failed in their duty of care and directly caused the incident to happen.

In this case, she fell/slipped/whatever presumably because she had just cleaned somewhere and the surface was slippy. So the fault was hers. The location of the nail is incidental, the accident would still have occured even if that nail had not been there.

You could claim partial negligence on his part for the nail being there, but since the nail didn't *cause* the accident, it's only a bit-player in this.

The key as to her rights then lie in whether she's an employee (i.e. she had a contract of employment and is paid on a regular basis by the employer) or she's a casual worker/contractor.

If she's an employee, then he should have employer's liability insurance which will cover this and it's open-and-shut. If she's not an employee, he *may* have public liability insurance which will cover this, but they will need to see that the restaurant owner was at fault.

In short, if she's an employee I'd chase it. If she's not, I'd forget about it.

@Seamus: Thank you very for your professional advice.

How about the fact that there was no first aid kit in place. So she went to hospital. If there was a first aid kit and the owner assisted her with cleaning her hand, she may not needed to go to hospital hence no problem like this?

granturismo

seamus wrote: »

In order for any court case to be successful, it would need to be shown that the restaurant owner was at fault..she fell/slipped/whatever presumably because she had just cleaned somewhere and the surface was slippy. So the fault was hers.
.

Is she completely at fault? Plenty of precedents to show that its accepted that kitchens will have slippy floors and that employers should provide antislip shoeware.

Who employed her is the issue and was she given appropriate footware? I doubt she is a self-employed contractor.

seamus

granturismo wrote: »

Who employed her is the issue and was she given appropriate footware? I doubt she is a self-employed contractor.

Cleaners are very often called on an "as-needed" basis, which very much makes them self-employed contractors.

mikemac

When I worked in a hotel kitchen we have safety shoes, you know the ones with non-slip soles, management paid for them
Did your friend have these? Was she provided with them? Or maybe as she was called in she should have provided her own
As realy if you don't have them it's not surprising then somebody fell.

An exposed nail though is definitly dangerous

MGLman

granturismo wrote: »

Is she completely at fault? Plenty of precedents to show that its accepted that kitchens will have slippy floors and that employers should provide antislip shoeware.

Who employed her is the issue and was she given appropriate footware? I doubt she is a self-employed contractor.

1. She was not provided with any footwear.
2. She works for other company which has nothing to do with this job and she was contacted through her friend who worked for the restaurant. So, I imagine that she would be one type of employee for the restaurant?

Jeege

OP,
The restaurant owner should definitely cover her medical expenses, as mentioned, he should have public and employers liability insurance although he would be mad to claim for €250.00

It doesnt matter whether or not she fell because SHE had washed the floors, in any environmemt where the floors need to be washed they should be a non slip grade, or she should, as mentioned, have non slip shoes.
Also, the position of the nail is not incidental, it is paramount to her injury.. i.e if the nail wasn't where it was, her hand would not have been cut in the first place.
Ideally, she should have asked the hospital to invoice the restaurant owner directly, as this doesnt seem to be the case, I would advise that she pays the amount and contacts her local citizens advice bureau to find out how to proceed with a claim for repayment.
I didnt read all other replies in full, Im assuming that this girl was an employee, therefore insurable.. If not, I'm afraid there's no comeback.
Best of luck, I hope she gets the monet for the bill.

MGLman

On top: the restaurant had recieved some official warning from Health and Safety Authorities concerning about the fault at their work place and ordered them to take an immidiate action and they had never solved/fixed/improved the work place.

MGLman

@ Jeegee, thank you very much for your advice. The reason why it was invoiced to her was that the owner asked her not to say that it was at work, so she did not say it and now the owner refuse to pay. She was only called for that evening for that job.

tricky D

Nail sticking out of the floor, non-slip flooring and lack of First Aid kit are both negligent and a matter of interest for the HSE. Consult a solictor or at the very least tell the employer that is your intention and see if he decides to cooperate.

Jeege

Yeah, He sounds shady enough!
It's probably a bit of a grey area as she was in on contract with another company, she should def get some advice, i wouldnt let it lie.

If the owner is ignoring health and safety issues, maybe the threat of a h&s audit would move things along with regards to paying out!!

MGLman

Jeege wrote: »

Yeah, He sounds shady enough!
It's probably a bit of a grey area as she was in on contract with another company

Fully agree with you, but the he contacted her instead of her company. Would it be then her second job?

tricky D

Whether on contract or directly employed isn't much of a worry. She either sues the employer if directly employed or sues the contractor who then sues the owner.

I've been in the latter position myself.

Jeege

If he contacted her himself, as long as it went through her companys books and was not a nixer, then he is accountable, or as mentioned she can go through her own company, although that mightnt be wise in the current economic climate, she wouldnt want to be last to be picked for jobs over this..
Go after him if possible, I would approach him and give him one more chance to pay the bill, and sanction the request with consequences, like contacting Health and Safety etc

Mikefitzs

tricky D wrote: »

Nail sticking out of the floor, non-slip flooring and lack of First Aid kit are both negligent and a matter of interest for the HSE. Consult a solictor or at the very least tell the employer that is your intention and see if he decides to cooperate.

The HSE has nothing to do with health & safety it's HSA. This accident has occured in the workplace it is therefore necessary to report the accident to the HSA if the employee has had to take more than 3 days off incl. weekend even if she does not work over the weekend.
Safety, Health and Welfare at Work (General Application) Regulations 2007 outline specifically that the buck stops with the most senior responsible person, in this case the owner. It is up to the owner to ensure that his premises is a safe working envoirnment for all employees, whether directly employed or as contractors.
It is not possible to determine if there was non slip floor covering in place unless it is checked. There is a minimum first aid kit that must be provided per amount of employees.
Also the owner should not have any nails sticking out of anywhere that could cause injury.

Best case here is for your friend to ask a solicitors advise (1st session usually free).
Personally I would not bother with taking legal action unless I was out of pocket which in this case that seems to have happened. I would go back and ask the owner to pay the hospital bill and for a couple of days sick pay.

Why was the hospital bill so much, A&E is €100 in all our hospitals?

Can people please not work for cash in hand, this is the thing that happens and you only get into trouble with the tax man if you go through the courts and could end up owing a lot of money. Remember, those of us that pay tax are paying your dole.

c4cat

MGLman wrote: »

Hi All,

I am not sure whether I am in the right forum, if it is the wrong one please accept my apology.

I wanted to ask your advice on an incident that happened to my friend who had injured at work.

Story is as follows:

She was called for 4 hours of cleaning work in the restaurant kitchen and while she was working she fell off on the floor and cut her hand by the nail that was stickinig out of the floor and had quite bad bleeding. Unfortuntelly, there was not any first aid kit and she had to call her friend to bring some cleaning stuff and bandages and so on. The owner of the restaurant did not do anything. She went to hospital straight away to get it checked and steched as it was quite deep and bleeding.

Now, she has recieved an invoice for 250 euro for the use of an emergency service and the owner of the restaurant claims that he has no liability to pay the this fee as he was hiring her to do the job and she has to have an insurance for her. But she was approached directly not through the company, so in this sense, I think she is being employed by him and he is liable to pay this fee.

The question is 'Who has to pay this fee? Is it herself or the owner of the restaurant as it was an accident happened in his permise?' Is there anywhere she could approach if the owner is still refuses to pay?



Thank you very much your advices.

contact these people, they got me a huge settlement out of court for a back injury I suffered at work. Its not only the cost of treatment but there is other compensation to claim.
www.kentcarty.com

MGLman

c4cat wrote: »

contact these people, they got me a huge settlement out of court for a back injury I suffered at work. Its not only the cost of treatment but there is other compensation to claim.
www.kentcarty.com

C4cat: Thank you very much.

tricky D

Mikefitzs wrote: »

The HSE has nothing to do with health & safety it's HSA.

Absolutely. That's what I meant to say. My bad. Thx

Mikefitzs

c4cat wrote: »

contact these people, they got me a huge settlement out of court for a back injury I suffered at work. Its not only the cost of treatment but there is other compensation to claim.
www.kentcarty.com

I'm disgusted at your suggestion. This person cut their hand and got a few stitches, it'll be sore for a few days, so what! A back injury is serious, I know I have one. This type of suggestion is the reason I have to pay higher insurance costs and helps no one.

MGLman

Mikefitzs wrote: »

The HSE has nothing to do with health & safety it's HSA. This accident has occured in the workplace it is therefore necessary to report the accident to the HSA if the employee has had to take more than 3 days off incl. weekend even if she does not work over the weekend.
Safety, Health and Welfare at Work (General Application) Regulations 2007 outline specifically that the buck stops with the most senior responsible person, in this case the owner. It is up to the owner to ensure that his premises is a safe working envoirnment for all employees, whether directly employed or as contractors.
It is not possible to determine if there was non slip floor covering in place unless it is checked. There is a minimum first aid kit that must be provided per amount of employees.
Also the owner should not have any nails sticking out of anywhere that could cause injury.

Best case here is for your friend to ask a solicitors advise (1st session usually free).
Personally I would not bother with taking legal action unless I was out of pocket which in this case that seems to have happened. I would go back and ask the owner to pay the hospital bill and for a couple of days sick pay.

Why was the hospital bill so much, A&E is €100 in all our hospitals?

Can people please not work for cash in hand, this is the thing that happens and you only get into trouble with the tax man if you go through the courts and could end up owing a lot of money. Remember, those of us that pay tax are paying your dole.

Thank you very much for your professional advice.