No longer choosing a BMW

batperson

Ive posted here before about difficulty deciding on a car and got some decent suggestions but I'm now gonna wait for the budget in a few weeks and hopefully see price drops.


I narrowed down my choice to a 2006 E46 BMW 320d coupe MSport.

Reliable, very economical, and good resale value and a really stunning looking car esp in dark grey.

BUT, looking at honest john http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/index.htm?md=36

I am gutted...looks like something I would expect from an old FIAT but not BMW!

"Repeated turbo failures...swirl value breaking and being ingested by engine..." and there is more...much more.:eek:

Anyway this has put me off this car, I thought BMW = reliable. Well it's not according to this site.


So, now, narrowed down to my second third and fourth choice:

2006 3dr GTI Mark V or a2006 Audi A4 TDI Saloon 170bhp or 2006 3dr Golf GT TDI 170bhp?

GTI reviews look positive not sure about the a4 170 as there are not many in this country... I read on boards somewhere that the 170 engine is made by BMW?

Drummerboy08

He gives out about the BMW's reliability and then posts a diesel A4 and Golf. :rolleyes:

The A4 will suffer from clutch/gearbox issues, likewise for the Golf. We've had that many golfs with stupid niggly issues in the last year its not funny. Only this morning I towed one out of a customers yard because it wont start.

I personally think that the BMW would be very reliable. I thought they only suffered turbo issues in the older models? Completely different car to the three you posted too. The GTI would be a nice machine though.

I also wouldnt judge a cars performance solely on a review website.

EPM

The 170 bhp Audi unit is not made by BMW. You'll have the tdidilies mad at that suggestion:D

It's true about the engines, but the problem is much less pronounced on post Aug/Sept 03 built cars.

voxpop

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

The A4 will suffer from clutch/gearbox issues, likewise for the Golf.

What issues are those ?


I thought the turbo failures and swirl valve issue were behind bmw. The swirl valve thing is a bit of a joke - plastic screws! - though they have have resolved that by this stage.

-Chris-

batperson wrote: »

Ive posted here before about difficulty deciding on a car and got some decent suggestions but I'm now gonna wait for the budget in a few weeks and hopefully see price drops.

Why do you think the budget will lead to price drops?

Drummerboy08

voxpop wrote: »

What issues are those ?

From some stage in 06 onwards, VAG used a different, softer compound in their clutches, causing them to fail regularly. The newer model still have this issue, but with the electronic handbrake, its worse. There's no hill assist standard on either the entry level Passat or A4, so how exactly do you take off on a hill?

This was all pointed out to me by a customer, and someone in VAG warranty more or less agreed with us.

As ROR - he'll tell you the problems their having with VAG stuff at the minute. We've replaced two clutches in two 08 A4's this year already.

batperson

I thought the a4 was bullet proof - the 2005/2006 model - A4 B6?

The issue is that the turbos fail later in life and that could be why we only hear about the older ones now, although I may be wrong.

So any issues with the GTI other than being a 2 litre petrol?:D

As for being different cars, I know but I have unusual taste.
If road tax was not an issue (resale value) then I would look at the A6 3.0 tdi quattro which i think is the nicest looking car for under 100k! Big big for one person though!

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

He gives out about the BMW's reliability and then posts a diesel A4 and Golf. :rolleyes:

The A4 will suffer from clutch/gearbox issues, likewise for the Golf. We've had that many golfs with stupid niggly issues in the last year its not funny. Only this morning I towed one out of a customers yard because it wont start.

I personally think that the BMW would be very reliable. I thought they only suffered turbo issues in the older models? Completely different car to the three you posted too. The GTI would be a nice machine though.

I also wouldnt judge a cars performance solely on a review website.

batperson

Bacon Report

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055711264

-Chris- wrote: »

Why do you think the budget will lead to price drops?

Drummerboy08

batperson wrote: »

I thought the a4 was bullet proof - the 2005/2006 model - A4 B6?

Bit of advice - there is no such thing as a "bulletproof car". Chances are you will have some form of an issue with any car, sooner or later.

We've had cars from VW that have constantly broken down, but we've also had a Renault Laguna with no issues whatsoever. Which brand has the reputation of reliability?

The best thing to do is take each car individually. I'd have no problem buying a diesel Laguna, as long as it had a full service history, and felt/drove like a solid, looked after car (you can tell). I'd have serious issues buying a diesel Passat with half the mileage but with no history.

Dont go by what reputation the manufacturer has - go by the car.

Seth Brundle

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Bit of advice - there is no such thing as a "bulletproof car".

*cough*
http://www.bmw-security-vehicles.com/security_vehicles/en/7series/arm_ballistic_testing.html

Drummerboy08

kbannon wrote: »

*cough*
http://www.bmw-security-vehicles.com/security_vehicles/en/7series/arm_ballistic_testing.html

Couldnt resist it could you?

batperson

Tbh reliability is key to me as is resale value. But I also want something sporty, really good looking and with a bit of power to overtake when needed. If reliability was the only important thing I would get an accord or corrola but I hate the look of them.

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Bit of advice - there is no such thing as a "bulletproof car". Chances are you will have some form of an issue with any car, sooner or later.

We've had cars from VW that have constantly broken down, but we've also had a Renault Laguna with no issues whatsoever. Which brand has the reputation of reliability?

The best thing to do is take each car individually. I'd have no problem buying a diesel Laguna, as long as it had a full service history, and felt/drove like a solid, looked after car (you can tell). I'd have serious issues buying a diesel Passat with half the mileage but with no history.

Dont go by what reputation the manufacturer has - go by the car.

MarkN

OP I've had three Golf GTIs and two Audis. I've also had two BMWs.

Without a doubt, I've been in more VAG service departments with their cars. I've had one issue with the BMW and that was my last one, so in two years of BMW ownership I've had one problem.

Yes there clearly is a problem with the 320D, but not every 320D.

I wouldn't let it put you off and if you buy from a BMW dealer you'll get a warranty anyway.

MKV GTI is a good car though and if the choice was mine I think I'd get a nice one over a E46 unless you're talking M3s and the like. Golf does look good with the 18s, slap in some leather and it's a nice place to be. GTI will give you that overtaking performance, the 320 will run out of steam.

Absurdum

May I be rude and suggest a Lexus IS instead?

BrianD3

I have heard of a lot of people being put off cars because of what they read on honestjohn. When it comes to cars, the slightest bit of bad news spreads like wildfire and HJ is very flawed website. My thoughts on it are here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=57460695&postcount=4

batperson

Confidence is gone in the 320d and the tax would be mental in a 330d!

GTI looking good but I'll be importing from the UK in a few weeks post budget. Assuming the Greens don't double petrol in tax or hike up VRT on petrols then GTI looks like a winner especially the 3dr in black with leather. The only issue with a GTI is that resale will be hit as CO2 is pretty poor

MarkN wrote: »

OP I've had three Golf GTIs and two Audis. I've also had two BMWs.

Without a doubt, I've been in more VAG service departments with their cars. I've had one issue with the BMW and that was my last one, so in two years of BMW ownership I've had one problem.

Yes there clearly is a problem with the 320D, but not every 320D.

I wouldn't let it put you off and if you buy from a BMW dealer you'll get a warranty anyway.

MKV GTI is a good car though and if the choice was mine I think I'd get a nice one over a E46 unless you're talking M3s and the like. Golf does look good with the 18s, slap in some leather and it's a nice place to be. GTI will give you that overtaking performance, the 320 will run out of steam.

Drummerboy08

batperson wrote: »

Confidence is gone in the 320d and the tax would be mental in a 330d!

GTI looking good but I'll be importing from the UK in a few weeks post budget. Assuming the Greens don't double petrol in tax or hike up VRT on petrols then GTI looks like a winner especially the 3dr in black with leather. The only issue with a GTI is that resale will be hit as CO2 is pretty poor

You do realise a 06 GTI will be taxed as a 2.0 and NOT on te emissions based system? CO2 wont have anything to do with resale value. And if your worried about resale, dont buy a 2.0 Petrol Turbo...;)

R.O.R

Golf GTI would also have to be very cheap in the UK to warrant paying 28% VRT to the government. No idea of cost over there, but they are coming down in price everyday here.

We've a good few 320d's on the fleet (no coupe's) and don't seem to have any issue's with them. Most would be E90 models, but I don't think there was any engine/gearbox difference to the last of the E46's. As for 2006 VW's - don't ask! Thankfully we don't have many A4's of that age but the Passat's are a steaming pile......

batperson

what about the 330d coupe - would it be daft in getting an e46 one of these in say a 2005 or 2006 reg?

i know the 2008 would be better co2 tax ( i think?) but a 2008 330d would be crazy money.

R.O.R wrote: »

Golf GTI would also have to be very cheap in the UK to warrant paying 28% VRT to the government. No idea of cost over there, but they are coming down in price everyday here.

We've a good few 320d's on the fleet (no coupe's) and don't seem to have any issue's with them. Most would be E90 models, but I don't think there was any engine/gearbox difference to the last of the E46's. As for 2006 VW's - don't ask! Thankfully we don't have many A4's of that age but the Passat's are a steaming pile......

R.O.R

batperson wrote: »

what about the 330d coupe - would it be daft in getting an e46 one of these in say a 2005 or 2006 reg?

i know the 2008 would be better co2 tax ( i think?) but a 2008 330d would be crazy money.

I'd choke having to pay €1,293 for road tax per annum. You'd also need to love the car, as there is very little re-sale market for a 3 litre diesel coupe.

Running costs (except tax) shouldn't be that much more than a 320cd and it would be a hell of a lot of fun to drive.

.Longshanks.

batperson wrote: »

what about the 330d coupe - would it be daft in getting an e46 one of these in say a 2005 or 2006 reg?

i know the 2008 would be better co2 tax ( i think?) but a 2008 330d would be crazy money.

you've already answered your own question...!

batperson wrote: »

Confidence is gone in the 320d and the tax would be mental in a 330d!

GTI looking good but I'll be importing from the UK in a few weeks post budget. Assuming the Greens don't double petrol in tax or hike up VRT on petrols then GTI looks like a winner especially the 3dr in black with leather. The only issue with a GTI is that resale will be hit as CO2 is pretty poor

batperson

Well spotted

It's a battle of head vs heart!!!!

Part of me was waiting for someone to say a 330d coupe is the best ever car, with exceptional reliablity and excellent performance and well worth the extra tax;)

side note - not much on boards about the 330d coupe but a lot of positives on the 530d

Longshanks100 wrote: »

you've already answered your own question...!

Eoin

batperson wrote: »

I narrowed down my choice to a 2006 E46 BMW 320d coupe MSport.

Reliable, very economical, and good resale value and a really stunning looking car esp in dark grey.

BUT, looking at honest john http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/index.htm?md=36

That honest john review is for the previous version of the 3 series - is the 2006 model not the e90?

The 150BHP engine in the previous model had problems from 2002 to late 2004 (I think), so even if it is a late model e46 320d you're looking at, there shouldn't be that much risk.

MarkN

batperson wrote: »

Confidence is gone in the 320d and the tax would be mental in a 330d!

GTI looking good but I'll be importing from the UK in a few weeks post budget. Assuming the Greens don't double petrol in tax or hike up VRT on petrols then GTI looks like a winner especially the 3dr in black with leather. The only issue with a GTI is that resale will be hit as CO2 is pretty poor

Why would Co2 matter on a 2006 car?

Gumbo

eoin wrote: »

That honest john review is for the previous version of the 3 series - is the 2006 model not the e90?

The 150BHP engine in the previous model had problems from 2002 to late 2004 (I think), so even if it is a late model e46 320d you're looking at, there shouldn't be that much risk.

E46 coupes were registered right up until mid 2006 iirc

.Longshanks.

kceire wrote: »

E46 coupes were registered right up until mid 2006 iirc

Yeah heres one
http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=200928194579970

batperson

Still not cheap and thinking about it more I realise its crazy paying over 20 grand for pre 2008 (as the tax change will mean resale will really suffer in the next fewe years).

One more thing on the Audi A4 B6 (2005/2006) model - the sentiment on this thread is defo avoid the diesel (and looking at recent threads on boards diesel issues with the a4 - new and old model are not uncommon)

Is the 1.8 T petrol engine a good buy? I would just pay for a 1.8 engine size which is not so bad.

Is it reliable i.e. a good reliable engine with a good reputation? and a good drivers cars (best car i ever drove was a mondeo tdci 130bhp so thats my benchmark - but it handled so well and had great overtaking power when needed:D) ? still think mondeos are great but I became fed up of everyone asking me if I was a cop!:eek:

Longshanks100 wrote: »

Yeah heres one
http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=200928194579970

R.O.R

Something like this would be a decent motor.

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Audi/A4/1.8T-163/200944195654837/advert?channel=CARS

Quattro would be better, but very few and far between. 163bhp isn't too much for just the front wheel to handle.

1.8T is a very good engine, coils will probably let go at some point but they are €40 each and easy to replace yourself.

Similar age Octavia 2.0VRs 2.0TFSi would be a better buy IMHO.

batperson

Nice car!

Would a Quattro hold it value better/easier to sell in a year or two?

( i like to change cars every year or two)!!!

R.O.R wrote: »

Something like this would be a decent motor.

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Audi/A4/1.8T-163/200944195654837/advert?channel=CARS

Quattro would be better, but very few and far between. 163bhp isn't too much for just the front wheel to handle.

1.8T is a very good engine, coils will probably let go at some point but they are €40 each and easy to replace yourself.

Similar age Octavia 2.0VRs 2.0TFSi would be a better buy IMHO.

galwaytt

batperson wrote: »

One more thing on the Audi A4 B6 (2005/2006) model - the sentiment on this thread is defo avoid the diesel (and looking at recent threads on boards diesel issues with the a4 - new and old model are not uncommon)

When it's going well, it's a lovely car, so it's not 'defo' avoid the diesel, but they're not faultless. A friend of mine just bought a nice 150bhp 06 Passat 2.0Tdi from a garage (but it is an import). 4 weeks in, EGR and DMF gone. Car has fsh. Garage is covering all under warranty, no problem, but that's not the point...........

Is the 1.8 T petrol engine a good buy? I would just pay for a 1.8 engine size which is not so bad. Is it reliable i.e. a good reliable engine with a good reputation? and a good drivers cars

I've had two 1.8t's, and apart from one MAF failure (easy, cheap), I think it's a great engine. Good balance of size/power, imho. I'd take a 1.8t, or even the newer 2.0's, over any diesel - they're actually less complex..........!

(best car i ever drove was a mondeo tdci 130bhp so thats my benchmark - but it handled so well and had great overtaking power when needed:D) ? still think mondeos are great but I became fed up of everyone asking me if I was a cop!:eek:

tbh, you're answering you'e own question - the Mondeo is a good car. The newer Titanium diesel versions are very, very nice, and under-rated imho. The estate version in particular looks good imho. And, being a Ford, if/when it breaks, there's no shortage of places who can do it, reasonably.

batperson

Would you rate the Audi 1.8t a4 B6 higher than a 2.2 tdci titanium x mondeo?

In terms of driving and performance, economy and resale etc?

galwaytt wrote: »

When it's going well, it's a lovely car, so it's not 'defo' avoid the diesel, but they're not faultless. A friend of mine just bought a nice 150bhp 06 Passat 2.0Tdi from a garage (but it is an import). 4 weeks in, EGR and DMF gone. Car has fsh. Garage is covering all under warranty, no problem, but that's not the point...........

I've had two 1.8t's, and apart from one MAF failure (easy, cheap), I think it's a great engine. Good balance of size/power, imho. I'd take a 1.8t, or even the newer 2.0's, over any diesel - they're actually less complex..........!
tbh, you're answering you'e own question - the Mondeo is a good car. The newer Titanium diesel versions are very, very nice, and under-rated imho. The estate version in particular looks good imho. And, being a Ford, if/when it breaks, there's no shortage of places who can do it, reasonably.

mullingar

R.O.R wrote: »

I'd choke having to pay €1,293 for road tax per annum. You'd also need to love the car, as there is very little re-sale market for a 3 litre diesel coupe.

Running costs (except tax) shouldn't be that much more than a 320cd and it would be a hell of a lot of fun to drive.

The biggest running cost of motoring is DEPRECIATION, most 2006 cars will loose €minimum 3k /yr

Road tax is only a fraction of the full motoring costs, so the yearly running costs for a 3.0 2006 car it will probably be:

Depreciation: 40%
Fuel: 30%
Motor Tax 20%
Insurance 10%
Servicing 10%

@OP Sit down and do your sums for the full running costs over 3 years to see if it is much extra for a 3.0

znv6i3h7kqf9ys

TBH I think a Beamer would be wasted on you as you seem to be more concerned with how a car looks and not how it drives. You deserve to drive an Audi. It is true about the turbo failure on the old 320d (up to 03). I know because I found out the hard way. Still it is a great car and it didn't put me off buying another 320d (04) which gave me no problems. RWD is the best (except in snow)

-Chris-

Asher Fit Crib wrote: »

TBH I think a Beamer would be wasted on you as you seem to be more concerned with how a car looks and not how it drives. You deserve to drive an Audi.

Wow, what a sweeping and generalised statement... :rolleyes:

Asher Fit Crib wrote:

It is true about the turbo failure on the old 320d (up to 03). I know because I found out the hard way. Still it is a great car and it didn't put me off buying another 320d (04) which gave me no problems.

Good info, good to know.

Asher Fit Crib wrote:

RWD is the best (except in snow)

The best for who?

craichoe

Asher Fit Crib wrote: »

TBH I think a Beamer would be wasted on you as you seem to be more concerned with how a car looks and not how it drives. You deserve to drive an Audi. It is true about the turbo failure on the old 320d (up to 03). I know because I found out the hard way. Still it is a great car and it didn't put me off buying another 320d (04) which gave me no problems. RWD is the best (except in snow)

Well thats up to him .. .isn't it ...

At the end of the day its his money so he can buy what he likes.

EPM

Asher Fit Crib wrote: »

TBH I think a Beamer would be wasted on you as you seem to be more concerned with how a car looks and not how it drives. You deserve to drive an Audi

lmao:D

Since when were BMW's the preserve of the chosen?!?:rolleyes:

znv6i3h7kqf9ys

EPM wrote: »

lmao:D

Since when were BMW's the preserve of the chosen?!?:rolleyes:

BMW = drivers car. Basic Audis = posers car I mean why pay the extra for an audi badge when it's really a vw or a scoda with shiney bits. Like the R8 though

EPM

Asher Fit Crib wrote: »

BMW = drivers car. Basic Audis = posers car I mean why pay the extra for an audi badge when it's really a vw or a scoda with shiney bits. Like the R8 though

If you look at whats actually sold in this country there isn't much of a difference between the two tbh

R.O.R

Asher Fit Crib wrote: »

BMW = drivers car.

The new BMW 316d - 116bhp diesel - the ULTIMATE drivers car

znv6i3h7kqf9ys

EPM wrote: »

If you look at whats actually sold in this country there isn't much of a difference between the two tbh

Agree, 316 and 318's are rubbish. But the BMW diesel engines are excellent. We are talking about a 320cd M sport. That's a great all rounder unless you carry more than 1 passanger alot of the time.

-Chris-

Asher Fit Crib wrote: »

BMW = drivers car. Basic Audis = posers car I mean why pay the extra for an audi badge when it's really a vw or a scoda with shiney bits. Like the R8 though

BMW > Audi for driving dynamics
Audi > BMW for interior design & space

Both cars are for "posers" by your logic.
No one needs RWD, no one needs alloy wheels, everyone should be driving 10 year old Skodas if it's only about going from A to B.

The reason you buy a car like these is because you think they're special and you'll get some enjoyment out of them. Very few people drive a car well enough to get the best from RWD, and 95% of the time you don't get the opportunity anyway.

znv6i3h7kqf9ys

-Chris- wrote: »

BMW > Audi for driving dynamics
Audi > BMW for interior design & space

Both cars are for "posers" by your logic.
No one needs RWD, no one needs alloy wheels, everyone should be driving 10 year old Skodas if it's only about going from A to B.

The reason you buy a car like these is because you think they're special and you'll get some enjoyment out of them. Very few people drive a car well enough to get the best from RWD, and 95% of the time you don't get the opportunity anyway.

I see where you are going alright but I'm not convinced. My M3 puts a smile on my face every time I drive it

-Chris-

I'd expect so!

teednab-el

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

As ROR - he'll tell you the problems their having with VAG stuff at the minute. We've replaced two clutches in two 08 A4's this year already.

Thats just two Audi A4's out of how many thousands? Some of these problems that occur in cars are due to driver behaviour, do you think?

R.O.R

teednab-el wrote: »

Thats just two Audi A4's out of how many thousands? Some of these problems that occur in cars are due to driver behaviour, do you think?

Drummerboy and myself both work with large fleets of cars, so it's not just 2 - it's many, many VAG products with clutch issues.

Higher occurance in these motors than other manufacturers.

znv6i3h7kqf9ys

Asher Fit Crib wrote: »

Agree, 316 and 318's are rubbish. But the BMW diesel engines are excellent. We are talking about a 320cd M sport. That's a great all rounder unless you carry more than 1 passanger alot of the time.

It might say 316d on the boot badge, but the engine under the bonnet is actually a 2.0-litre diesel. The 1995cc four-pot is the same engine you'll find in the 318d and 320d, but here it's detuned from the 318d's 143bhp and 221lb ft to 114bhp and 192lb ft. This should be easy enough to retune.:D

.Longshanks.

Asher Fit Crib wrote: »

It might say 316d on the boot badge, but the engine under the bonnet is actually a 2.0-litre diesel. The 1995cc four-pot is the same engine you'll find in the 318d and 320d, but here it's detuned from the 318d's 143bhp and 221lb ft to 114bhp and 192lb ft. This should be easy enough to retune.:D

I think the newer 320d's have a bigger / different turbo than the 316d and 318d so maybe its not that straight forward. But all will be re-mappable

Drummerboy08

teednab-el wrote: »

Thats just two Audi A4's out of how many thousands? Some of these problems that occur in cars are due to driver behaviour, do you think?

The list goes on......

07 1.9TDi Golf that needs new clocks.

We got those two clutches independently inspected and the conclusion was that it was part failure. If Audi replaced both under warranty, they must have known it too.

patmartino

R.O.R wrote: »

Drummerboy and myself both work with large fleets of cars, so it's not just 2 - it's many, many VAG products with clutch issues.

Higher occurance in these motors than other manufacturers.

Where do you guys sell on the ex fleet cars.

R.O.R

patmartino wrote: »

Where do you guys sell on the ex fleet cars.

All ours are sold direct to the trade from our location.

batperson

Just wondering, are these regualr problems with the vags all diesels?

The more replies I see here the more towards petrol I am going.

Between turbos, dual mass flywheels etc.

Are there any known issues with either the audi a4 1.8t/ 2.0 tsi or the bmw 320ci?

If petrol is better, then combined with lower purchase price and same tax (engine size as 2006), and me doing far less than 15000pa seems like a no brainer to avoid diesel...well unless the green party tax petrol like mad in a few weeks;)

R.O.R wrote: »

All ours are sold direct to the trade from our location.