Denmark paying immigrants to go home

Sizzler

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1109/denmark.html

wrote:

Denmark has agreed to increase tenfold the amount of money offered to immigrants who return home permanently to 100,000 kroner (€13,443), officials said.


The centre-right minority government reached an agreement with its key ally, the far-right Danish People's Party, on the issue late Sunday as part of their 2010 budget negotiations.

A financial incentive of 11,000 kroner had until now been offered to immigrants to resettle in their country of origin.

The scheme is aimed at immigrants from outside the EU and Nordic countries, DPP deputy leader Peter Skaarup said.


'It in practice targets those nationals from non-Western countries who are struggling to adapt to Danish society and who would be tempted by a fairly significant sum to go back home forever,' he said.


Mr Skaarup said those taking up the offer would receive 11,000 kroner up front. The remainder of the 100,000 kroner would be paid out once they surrender their Danish residency permits, he added.


The agreement also calls for 20 million kroner in aid to city councils in charge of integrating immigrants, to help them 'motivate' foreigners to return home.


According to the refugee, immigrant and integration ministry, some 2,524 people have voluntarily left Denmark since 1997 when the repatriation programme was introduced.

Most of them were from the former Yugoslavia, Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Somalia and Turkey.


Immigrants represent 7.3% of Denmark's population of 5.5 million, including 4.5% from non-Western countries.

Don't think Ireland could afford this even they wanted to do it!

O'Morris

What does it say about the joys of multiculturalism when the government of a liberal, Scandinavian country is prepared to spend a million kroner to get 10 non-European immigrants to return home?

Bandit12

Fair play to them.I think we'll see a lot more countries taking this idea onboard within the coming years.

AcePuppetMaster

How long do we have to stay before we can qualify? 13k? be God, I would.

mike65

O'Morris wrote: »

What does it say about the joys of multiculturalism when the government of a liberal, Scandinavian country is prepared to spend a million kroner to get 10 non-European immigrants to return home?

It says nutty small right wing party holds the larger centre-right party by the short and curlies.

O'Morris

mike65 wrote: »

It says nutty small right wing party holds the larger centre-right party by the short and curlies.

That might say a lot about what a government is prepared to do to stay in power but you still have to ask the question of what it says about multiculturalism itself when a government is prepared a spend a large amount of money to see less of it.

walshb

13000, that's about ten times less than we pay trying to get rid of them, or is that keep them?

AcePuppetMaster

walshb wrote: »

13000, that's about ten times less than we pay trying to get rid of them, or is that keep them?

Hate modding the mods but dude, that statement could almost be considered racist by some.

Look, the way I see it, the government in Denmark is trying to solve a problem of high costs. This very idea was mentioned a few months back on Joe Duffy's show if I remember correctly. I agree that immigrants are costing the country money, but many of them work here in well paid jobs hence pay their taxes the very same as the Irish workers. We'd be lost if all of them went home, just look at the hospitals and McDonalds!!

If we were to offer the same here and everyone of "them" took up the offer, we'd be well and truly screwed.

walshb, I think you are referring to the unemployed immigrants. I agree that dole handouts are at ridiculous levels at the moment. That's why I'd personnaly love to see everyone on the dole do some work to better this nation. Be it cleaning the streets, finishing the building projects and use them for affordable council housing, renovating playgrounds, bringing the disabled off to Dublin zoo, but for God's sake let them do something. Even starting up businesses (we surely have enough people on the dole that want to work and have skills in areas like accounting, management etc). Why aren't our government being proactive in tackling these problems instead of spending all their time deciding where to make custs, riase taxes etc.

To avoid any more of a rant (perhaps better placed elsewhere) and to bring things back full-circle, at least the Danes are doing something.

Lockstep

Isn't Spain doing the same?

CantGetNoSleep

It is probably less than some countries (including us) spend on deportations

dlofnep

Stupid idea. If someone is legally entitled to be in your country, you should not pay them to leave. Where's the warm welcome in that? This is something the likes of the BNP would use, and Fine Gael actually suggested bringing this in.

My tax will not be used to pay people to leave this country. If someone is legally entitled to be here, they can stay. If someone is illegally here, then it won't apply to them and they will be removed eitherway in due course.

AcePuppetMaster

Alas I think the days of the Irish warm welcome are over.:(

Ste.phen

Eh, arent *we* doing the same?
I thought I heard rumblings about that a few months ago

dlofnep

Ste.phen wrote: »

Eh, arent *we* doing the same?
I thought I heard rumblings about that a few months ago

No, we're not.

Leo Varadkar (Son of an immigrant & Fine Gael) suggested that we pay immigrants, to go back to their native country. Ireland suited his father well to make a better life for himself.

PCPhoto

why dont we just chuck out the ones with criminal convictions - and offer "go home" money to those unemployed. :eek:

Seriously - if the Government was to calculate the annual cost of Dole money and make a decision to "offer" get out of Ireland and we'll give you X amount..... they seem to be pushing the emmigration idea anyway....lets push the problem out of Ireland...then it wont be a problem (for us) anymore.

I wouldn't want our government to be accused of being racist :rolleyes:- picking on non-nationals, let the offer go across the board..... to those that qualify (criminals/unemployed/refugee's/asylam seekers etc)

Overheal

AcePuppetMaster wrote: »

Alas I think the days of the Irish warm welcome are over.:(

that shipped sailed years ago. in the last while of my stay i was constantly treated guilty until proven innocent by immigration and the gardai i had to meet with to certify my visas. Of course it always seemed two-faced to me, given every march Ireland demands more rights for Irish Immigrants in the US.

AcePuppetMaster

Touché

bill_ashmount

Overheal wrote: »

that shipped sailed years ago. in the last while of my stay i was constantly treated guilty until proven innocent by immigration and the gardai i had to meet with to certify my visas. Of course it always seemed two-faced to me, given every march Ireland demands more rights for Irish Immigrants in the US.

If you were treated unfairly, complain. There are methods available. What exactly has been done to you or are you just blowing it all out of proportion?

The Irish government should be in America apologizing to the Americans for the illegal behaviour of their citizens, not asking for an amnesty for those who break American law. It sickens me to see it play out every year.

Overheal

Oh nothing too controversial. Just nothing diplomatic. If you get me. Authority figures can be very gruff people, that and the foot long list of material I need to supply for my visas (proof of address proof of income proof of savings (you need to provide a bank statement proving you have at least 3k Euro available), Proof of Enrollment, proof of Educational Attendance By percentage of Days in session vs. Days missed, 2 forms of ID, etc. etc.) and those are just the ones I can remember. Proof of Address, being the most abstractly annoying document on earth; especially when trying to attend college and you have no mailed bills in your name. Thats on top of the attitude the officers give you.

Then of course in that same year Paypal EU froze my account and all my funds for 6 weeks because apparently getting paid monthly from the US is viewed as potential fraud. Finding a scanner to provide 2 forms of ID to them,(and the proof of address) was quite the adventure in itself. Youd figure paypal would be quicker about processing that sort of shyte. But no, apparently 6 weeks is the going rate.

edit: Oh, and proof of Private Health Insurance. I'll think of more..

The fact that I had lived there 7 of the previous 7 years counted for feck all because it was all as a Student.

AlekSmart

It says nutty small right wing party holds the larger centre-right party by the short and curlies.

If only we had an Irish Nutty Small Right Wing Party then maybe,just maybe we might get some movement on something.....as it stands,our prime political activity is Inertia and its preservation :eek:

Bottle_of_Smoke

O'Morris wrote:

What does it say about the joys of multiculturalism when the government of a liberal, Scandinavian country is prepared to spend a million kroner to get 10 non-European immigrants to return home?

dlofnep wrote: »

Stupid idea. If someone is legally entitled to be in your country, you should not pay them to leave. Where's the warm welcome in that? This is something the likes of the BNP would use, and Fine Gael actually suggested bringing this in.

My tax will not be used to pay people to leave this country. If someone is legally entitled to be here, they can stay. If someone is illegally here, then it won't apply to them and they will be removed eitherway in due course.

_______________________________

No, we're not.

Leo Varadkar (Son of an immigrant & Fine Gael) suggested that we pay immigrants, to go back to their native country. Ireland suited his father well to make a better life for himself.

No one's forcing them to leave. Varadkar's farther would not have been told to leave! Why in god's name would Varadkar put forward a proposal to kick his dad out of the country??? Its giving the ones who want to leave a decent amount of money to get them settled in their home country. I really hated the way Varadkar was compared to the BNP, those guys actully want to ask british people with non-white ancestry to leave. Varadkar and Sweden want to offer it to people who aren't citizens. It's completely different.

Its this kind of nonsense and misrepresentation that stops society having a rational debate about immigration.

Take someone who emigrated from Ireland to America a few years back, now they want to return home but can't because they can't afford to resettle. A payment of 13K would allow them to pay for a few months rent and look for a job. It would go a lot further in most countries in the world.

starbelgrade

I wish someone would pay me to leave Ireland.

PaulieD

-Deport failed asylum seekers.
-Deport those on dodgy language school visas.
-Deport unskilled non EU nationals.
-Put a case to Brussels so we can introduce a work permit scheme for accession states nationals.

Desperate times.....

Pay them? They came here with nada, let them leave with their savings.

OldJay

PaulieD wrote: »

-Deport unskilled non EU nationals

???
I've a niece coming over from Australia. She'll have finished high school this december and is planning on working here to fund a trip around Europe. If she likes it, she might even stay and I would sponsor her residency application the same as I did for my Nigerian neighbour's wife' citizenship application.

Should I tell her to eff off? She's not quite white (Sephardi Jew) I must add but she does speak good English (like my Nigerian neighbour).

djpbarry

AlekSmart wrote: »

If only we had an Irish Nutty Small Right Wing Party...

We do. Nobody likes them (apparently).

PaulieD wrote: »

They came here with nada...

The average immigrant came here with more qualifications than the average Irish person, especially non-EU immigrants. ‘Motivating’ them to leave doesn’t seem like a terribly well-thought-out solution to our current problems.

O'Morris

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote:

No one's forcing them to leave. Varadkar's farther would not have been told to leave! Why in god's name would Varadkar put forward a proposal to kick his dad out of the country??? Its giving the ones who want to leave a decent amount of money to get them settled in their home country. I really hated the way Varadkar was compared to the BNP, those guys actully want to ask british people with non-white ancestry to leave. Varadkar and Sweden want to offer it to people who aren't citizens. It's completely different.

While it's correct to say that this only applies to people who want to return, the Danish are going further by paying city councils to motivate foreigners to return home.

The agreement also calls for 20 million kroner in aid to city councils in charge of integrating immigrants, to help them 'motivate' foreigners to return home.

It would be misleading to pretend that the Danish are doing this purely out of a concern for immigrants who feel stranded in Denmark. They're doing this because they want to see fewer non-European immigrants in their country. They've experienced the joys of multiculturalism and they seem to have come to the conclusion that it's worth paying money to experience less of it.

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote:

Take someone who emigrated from Ireland to America a few years back, now they want to return home but can't because they can't afford to resettle. A payment of 13K would allow them to pay for a few months rent and look for a job. It would go a lot further in most countries in the world.

Exactly, and not only would it be a benefit to the immigrants themselves but it would be of benefit to the economy of the country that the immigrants return to. I think a strong case could be made for setting aside a few hundred million out of our foreign aid budget each year to give as direct payments to Africans living here who want to return home. Instead of that aid money ending up in the pockets of corrupt and incompetent government officials, it would be much better spent if it was given to the directly to the people who are meant to benefit from it.

AlekSmart

They've experienced the joys of multiculturalism and they seem to have come to the conclusion that it's worth paying money to experience less of it.

O`Morris points out a valid issue.

Multiculturalism as a concept only flourishes in a totally non-cultural atmosphere,one cannot have multiculturalism in a society which already posesses a culture...?

It seems to me that there a very valid reasons for the vast array of cultures to each have their own patch,but I suppose it`s always possible to trump reality and enforce some madcap notion that we can bring the delights of the Sub Sahara to Sandyford or Nigeria to Naas and enjoy it ?

Perhaps those pastry faced Danes might just have come up with a winner here..?
(I wonder do they have a Supreme Court over there )

Locamon

Way back when... the dole would give you a once off payment if you were leaving the country does anyone know if this is still available? I remember a couple of friends of mine getting it to come off the dole and go to England for work in the late eighties.
The problem with this whole argument is that a lot of Irish people would want to know why they couldn't get the same payment to exit our lovely shores!
I also agree with a previous poster that the last thing we want is skilled people , especially with languages, being encouraged to leave given what little industry we have left is here because they can access european markets.
Imagine mircrosoft, google or facebook trying to operate here without internationals helping them to access the european markets -not a hope.

Captain Furball

Denmark are all Nazis oh and racist and anti-Semitic too.

herya

O'Morris wrote: »

I think a strong case could be made for setting aside a few hundred million out of our foreign aid budget each year to give as direct payments to Africans living here who want to return home. Instead of that aid money ending up in the pockets of corrupt and incompetent government officials, it would be much better spent if it was given to the directly to the people who are meant to benefit from it.

Cue more Africans surfacing or arriving to receive the payment that can set them up nicely back home. Which is only reasonable from their point of view tbh.

AlekSmart wrote: »

Multiculturalism as a concept only flourishes in a totally non-cultural atmosphere,one cannot have multiculturalism in a society which already posesses a culture...?

Why exactly? The original culture will dominate and other cultures will be complementary or even marginal but still present. These cultures don't have to represent equal impact on the society if the numbers backing them up are so different.

Memnoch

It's wrong to discriminate against someone because of the colour of their skin. Discriminating against someone because they are "brown," or "yellow," is wrong and racist. But Discriminating against someone because they are "indian," or "chinese," is just sensible immigration policy and necessitated by practicality.

You cannot come here because you're "brown," is discrimination.
You cannot come here because you're "indian/pakistani," is not discrimination.

Bottle_of_Smoke

O'Morris wrote: »

While it's correct to say that this only applies to people who want to return, the Danish are going further by paying city councils to motivate foreigners to return home.



It would be misleading to pretend that the Danish are doing this purely out of a concern for immigrants who feel stranded in Denmark. They're doing this because they want to see fewer non-European immigrants in their country. They've experienced the joys of multiculturalism and they seem to have come to the conclusion that it's worth paying money to experience less of it.

That is actually a good point. I missed the funding for motivation part in the first post. Still, general concept don't have a problem.

Sizzler

The mayor of Limerick is of the same mind (without the pay off!)

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/limerick-mayor-calls-for-deportations-of-unemployed-immigrants-433866.html

wrote:

The Mayor of Limerick has provoked outrage by calling for unemployed EU nationals to be deported.

Councillor Kevin Kiely says anyone living here who "can't afford to pay for themselves" should be sent home after three months.

Mayor Kiely is denying accusations that his comments amount to racism, but they have sparked calls for his resignation with local Labour MEP Alan Kelly slamming them as "outrageous".


Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/limerick-mayor-calls-for-deportations-of-unemployed-immigrants-433866.html#ixzz0WYmaAgP5

SLUSK

Sizzler wrote: »

The mayor of Limerick is of the same mind (without the pay off!)

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/limerick-mayor-calls-for-deportations-of-unemployed-immigrants-433866.html

If people pay their taxes they are entitled to social welfare even if they happen to be from Africa.

If immigrants should not be entitled to social welfare then they should not have to pay taxes either.

dvpower

dlofnep wrote: »

Stupid idea. If someone is legally entitled to be in your country, you should not pay them to leave. Where's the warm welcome in that? This is something the likes of the BNP would use, and Fine Gael actually suggested bringing this in.

My tax will not be used to pay people to leave this country. If someone is legally entitled to be here, they can stay. If someone is illegally here, then it won't apply to them and they will be removed eitherway in due course.

There are a lot of recently unemployed immigrents who would like to go home, but are embarressed to return as 'failures' with nothing to show for their time here. A cash payment might ease that a bit.

More of a 'thanks for your help when we needed you' rather than a 'take this now and fcuk off'.

herya

dvpower wrote: »

There are a lot of recently unemployed immigrents who would like to go home, but are embarressed to return as 'failures' with nothing to show for their time here. A cash payment might ease that a bit.

More of a 'thanks for your help when we needed you' rather than a 'take this now and fcuk off'.

Makes sense actually, with regard to people who have worked in Ireland and contributed through taxes.

dattley

Memnoch wrote: »

It's wrong to discriminate against someone because of the colour of their skin. Discriminating against someone because they are "brown," or "yellow," is wrong and racist. But Discriminating against someone because they are "indian," or "chinese," is just sensible immigration policy and necessitated by practicality.

You cannot come here because you're "brown," is discrimination.
You cannot come here because you're "indian/pakistani," is not discrimination.

Yes, it absolutely is discrimination. While you are not discriminating on grounds of colour, you are openly discriminating on grounds of nationality. Whether this is a justifiable form of discrimination is a different matter entirely (I don't believe it justifiable myself), but the question of whether or not it is a form of discrimination is answered very cleary by the "because you're indian/pakistani" portion of your statement.

bill_ashmount

dattley wrote: »

Yes, it absolutely is discrimination. While you are not discriminating on grounds of colour, you are openly discriminating on grounds of nationality. Whether this is a justifiable form of discrimination is a different matter entirely (I don't believe it justifiable myself), but the question of whether or not it is a form of discrimination is answered very cleary by the "because you're indian/pakistani" portion of your statement.

Every single country in the world does this, every single country.
You don't want Ireland to do it? :eek:

dattley

bill_ashmount wrote: »

Every single country in the world does this, every single country.
You don't want Ireland to do it? :eek:

Whether or not I want Ireland to do "it" would not change the fact that it is discriminatory.

In any case, I am not familiar with a single example of a country which says "You cannot come here because you're indian/pakistani", which is the statement I referred to as discriminatory. You may be talking about a different subject entirely. That's not really my concern.

bill_ashmount

dattley wrote: »

Whether or not I want Ireland to do "it" would not change the fact that it is discriminatory.

In any case, I am not familiar with a single example of a country which says "You cannot come here because you're indian/pakistani", which is the statement I referred to as discriminatory. You may be talking about a different subject entirely. That's not really my concern.

It's called border control, India and Pakistan use it as well..

dattley

bill_ashmount wrote: »

It's called border control, India and Pakistan use it as well..

Since we're evidently not in a reading mood, I'll briefly stoop:

I seriously doubt that Pakistan has a "no Pakistanis" border policy.

bill_ashmount

dattley wrote: »

Since we're evidently not in a reading mood, I'll briefly stoop:

I seriously doubt that Pakistan has a "no Pakistanis" border policy.

Meh, you can't even understand your own sentences, I give up.

OldJay

bill_ashmount wrote: »

Every single country in the world does this, every single country

No they most certainly do not.
Setting criteria for migrants based on skills, wealth and qualifications is NOT the same as setting criteria based on race or colour of their skin.
What you claim is absolute bunkum.

dattley

bill_ashmount wrote: »

Meh, you can't even understand your own sentences, I give up.

You're not reading what I posted.

Somebody above said that saying "You cannot come here because you're Indian/Pakistani" is not discrimination.

I said that it is.

Which sentence do you believe i'm struggling with?

allimac

Fair play to Kevin Keily the Mayor of Limerickfor having the balls to say what most of us are thinking.Hopefully his words will encourage more politicians to speak out and maybe take action.

Memnoch

dattley wrote: »

Yes, it absolutely is discrimination. While you are not discriminating on grounds of colour, you are openly discriminating on grounds of nationality. Whether this is a justifiable form of discrimination is a different matter entirely (I don't believe it justifiable myself), but the question of whether or not it is a form of discrimination is answered very cleary by the "because you're indian/pakistani" portion of your statement.

I was being sarcastic....

PaulieD

SLUSK wrote: »

If people pay their taxes they are entitled to social welfare even if they happen to be from Africa.

If immigrants should not be entitled to social welfare then they should not have to pay taxes either.

LOL

If an immigrant is working in Ireland for two years, they are entitled to full dole payments. Lets say they earned 25,000 euro per annum, that around 1,500 paid in PRSI over two years. Ergo, after seven or eight weeks of dole payments they become a burden on the state. When a non Irish national becomes unemployed they should be refunded their PRSI contributions and no more.

PaulieD

djpbarry wrote: »

The average immigrant came here with more qualifications than the average Irish person, especially non-EU immigrants. ‘Motivating’ them to leave doesn’t seem like a terribly well-thought-out solution to our current problems.

I never said deport skilled non EU immigrants.

I said.....

PaulieD wrote: »

-Deport failed asylum seekers.
-Deport those on dodgy language school visas.
-Deport unskilled non EU nationals.
-Put a case to Brussels so we can introduce a work permit scheme for accession states nationals.

w123

Is this the Taxi drivers forum?

The Saint

PaulieD wrote: »

When a non Irish national becomes unemployed they should be refunded their PRSI contributions and no more.

Best of luck defending that in front of the European Court of Justice. All EU citizens are legally entitled to the same benifits as Irish people are.

Kev_ps3

What a waste of tax-players money.. Should kick em out with nothing:pac: