Foxes Bow robbery - Drug parafenalia shop

PaddyThai

Someone ripped off the roller shutter door and broke the glass door of that shop that sells drug parafenalia on Foxes Bow at about 9.30pm this evening. Don't think they stole much as they were disturbed. Gardai arrived about an hour after being phoned.

Is lawlessness taking over this City?.

Run_to_da_hills

Who in their right mind would rob a head shop.

john_cappa

PaddyThai wrote: »

Is lawlessness taking over this City?.

yes.

Never before was there a robbery in Ireland. Amazing stuff. A new low for limerick.

God help us all.

On a side note the sooner head shops are banned fully the better

krudler

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Who in their right mind would rob a head shop.

Its full of bongs and bob marley posters, that place is like El Dorado to scobes

Itsdacraic

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Who in their right mind would rob a head shop.

they might rob it to get out of their right mind

Kess73

krudler wrote: »

Its full of bongs and bob marley posters, that place is like El Dorado to scobes

Thanks for that, it gave me a good laugh.

Will have a grin on my face the next time I walk past the place or the one on William street now, as El Dorado will defo stick in my head for it.

billy the squid

There was a story in the LimerickLeader memories section yesterday from either 40 or 50 years ago, where thieves broke into a shop through in an elaborate operation to steal £1

Shops get broken into in town all the time. sometimes it gets reported, sometimes it don't.

Stab*City

john_cappa wrote: »

On a side note the sooner head shops are banned fully the better

Why?

Raiser

Henry St. to Foxes Bow via Kranks Korner is about an hour I suppose.

........Snack boxes and statements time Lads - God forbid we'd ever arrive anywhere near the time the crime might be stopped or properly investigated.

Head shops are a pack of drug dealing Scobes, like the Drug Families and lots of our Pharmacies.

RonMexico

Pity they didn't burn the place to the ground in the process. Then they'd have deserved a medal.

DarkJager

There really are some high horses in Limerick.

krudler

DarkJager wrote: »

There really are some high horses in Limerick.

there's regular size ones all over southill as well

Stab*City

Raiser wrote: »

Head shops are a pack of drug dealing Scobes, like the Drug Families and lots of our Pharmacies.

You need to get off your computer and out more.

Gambra

Raiser wrote: »

Head shops are a pack of drug dealing Scobes, like the Drug Families and lots of our Pharmacies.

I... Wait.. I have something... No.. I... Hmm.

That is honestly the most bizzare statement I've ever seen about Limerick.

Itsdacraic

Raiser wrote: »

Head shops are a pack of drug dealing Scobes, like the Drug Families and lots of our Pharmacies.

Looks like we found the culprit.

This lad is clearly after taking too much of something.

john_cappa

Stab*City wrote: »

Why?

They are selling mind altering drugs basically. Ones with little or no research as to the long-term effects. The law allows it. System is wrong as usual

krudler wrote: »

there's regular size ones all over southill as well

They are mostly smaller than regular size. There was one in my garden last week when i woke up! Annoying! But the horse was very cute and ran over to the front door when i opened it lol

Stab*City

john_cappa wrote: »

They are selling mind altering drugs basically. Ones with little or no research as to the long-term effects. The law allows it. System is wrong as usual

WOW your so right there.. i say the system should be changed. Any place that sells mind (or body) altering substances should have their licences taken away. Lets start with the head shops, then the pubs, then the clubs, then the off licences and then the shops that sell tobacco.. hell lets put locks on everybodys door and only open them at certain hours of the day! I presonally love my right to choose being taken away slowly but surely, do you?

john_cappa

Stab*City wrote: »

WOW your so right there.. i say the system should be changed. Any place that sells mind (or body) altering substances should have their licences taken away. Lets start with the head shops, then the pubs, then the clubs, then the off licences and then the shops that sell tobacco.. hell lets put locks on everybodys door and only open them at certain hours of the day! I presonally love my right to choose being taken away slowly but surely, do you?

To be honest i think alcohol should be banned. It is the root of so many problem in society.

Its very easy to talk about choice etc. but when substances are addictive then you cant make that choice anymore? Add to that the fact that most people are not informed enough to make a rational choice about many such substances then removing the choice altogether benefits society as a whole.

All IMO of course

Stab*City

john_cappa wrote: »

Its very easy to talk about choice etc. but when substances are addictive then you cant make that choice anymore? Add to that the fact that most people are not informed enough to make a rational choice about many such substances then removing the choice altogether benefits society as a whole.

Hello its not 1975 of course people are informed.. and these days its so easy to get informed if your not.. i just dont like the idea of having someone else make my choices for me.. Especially a government who openly back and tax such harmful and deadly substances as fags and drink while pretending they give a f**k about our heath when all in all they only care about the dollar bill.

magma69

No surprises there really. A girl in the head shop in William St. not too long ago was telling me they were robbed too and they knew who it was but couldn't prove it. Don't think it would be a crazy assumption to say there is a good chance it was the same people involved. Head shops really do attract scum like moths to the light. The people here who condemn people who set up these legal businesses are off their head. It's the laws you should have a problem with if you don't like what they are selling.

TestTransmission

john_cappa wrote: »

To be honest i think alcohol should be banned. It is the root of so many problem in society.

Its very easy to talk about choice etc. but when substances are addictive then you cant make that choice anymore? Add to that the fact that most people are not informed enough to make a rational choice about many such substances then removing the choice altogether benefits society as a whole.

All IMO of course

Thank god for that

irishvamp90

dont think it was a robbery more a bit of "roughing up"

john_cappa

Stab*City wrote: »

Hello its not 1975 of course people are informed.. and these days its so easy to get informed if your not.. i just dont like the idea of having someone else make my choices for me.. Especially a government who openly back and tax such harmful and deadly substances as fags and drink while pretending they give a f**k about our heath when all in all they only care about the dollar bill.

People are informed? really? point me to the research that show BZP and saliva have no long term physical or psychological effects? very hard to be informed when the research is not done.

Similar to the debate between pro hormones being safer than steroids.

You also skipped my point about choices/addiction

You clearly have an axe to grind with the government.

john_cappa

Stab*City wrote: »

and these days its so easy to get informed if your not..

it is but the reality is that many people dont!

Stab*City

john_cappa wrote: »

People are informed? really? point me to the research that show BZP and saliva have no long term physical or psychological effects? very hard to be informed when the research is not done.

Similar to the debate between pro hormones being safer than steroids.

You also skipped my point about choices/addiction

You clearly have an axe to grind with the government.

Point me in the direction where there is information that says i shouldnt eat my keyboard right now.. probably none there for that either but ill be damned if im gonna let you tell me not to eat it if i want to..

anyway whats banning headshops gonna solve? if people wanna get high which they do in v v large and increasing numbers they will find that high be it legal or not.. at least if they buy the high in a headshop it is somewhat controlled (oh and taxed)..

look at all the info that points to tobacco and drink being harmful.. does that stop people selling it? should we ban everything that could be harmful?

john_cappa

Stab*City wrote: »

Point me in the direction where there is information that says i shouldnt eat my keyboard right now.. probably none there for that either but ill be damned if im gonna let you tell me not to eat it if i want to..

Its not up to the general public/me/government to prove that a product is harmful. It is up to the the sellers to prove that they are safe. This has not been done.

Just as i said pro-hormones are thought to be a safer alternative to steroids as they are essentially legal in most countries. But there is no long-term studies done on their side effects. Just because they are legal does mean they are safe.

Stab*City wrote: »

anyway whats banning headshops gonna solve? if people wanna get high which they do in v v large and increasing numbers they will find that high be it legal or not.. at least if they buy the high in a headshop it is somewhat controlled (oh and taxed)..

As i said above the law need to change to prohibit these substances. Plenty of research demonstrates that demand increases when substances are legalized.

you think the head shop drugs are "controlled". Yes they go through the strictest of clinical guidelines and FDA approval lol. As i said just because you it over the counter rather does not make it any safer than their illegal counterparts.

Again you throw "oh and taxed" once again demonstrating your annoyance at the government. Stop letting your own personal agenda get in the way.

Stab*City wrote: »

anyway whats banning headshops gonna solve? if people wanna get high which they do in v v large and increasing numbers they will find that high be it legal or not.. at least if they buy the high in a headshop it is somewhat controlled (oh and taxed)..

look at all the info that points to tobacco and drink being harmful.. does that stop people selling it? should we ban everything that could be harmful?

Stab*City wrote: »

look at all the info that points to tobacco and drink being harmful.. does that stop people selling it? should we ban everything that could be harmful?

To be honest i think so.

Stab*City

john_cappa wrote: »

Its not up to the general public/me/government to prove that a product is harmful. It is up to the the sellers to prove that they are safe. This has not been done.

Just as i said pro-hormones are thought to be a safer alternative to steroids as they are essentially legal in most countries. But there is no long-term studies done on their side effects. Just because they are legal does mean they are safe.



As i said above the law need to change to prohibit these substances. Plenty of research demonstrates that demand increases when substances are legalized.

you think the head shop drugs are "controlled". Yes they go through the strictest of clinical guidelines and FDA approval lol. As i said just because you it over the counter rather does not make it any safer than their illegal counterparts.

Again you throw "oh and taxed" once again demonstrating your annoyance at the government. Stop letting your own personal agenda get in the way.








To be honest i think so.

Why prohibit them when there is no evidence they are harmful/not harmful? Shouldnt we have some information before we jump the gun and close all head shops (take away jobs, tax revenue and more when at a time we need every penny we can get)? Or like you should we just dismiss what we dont understand or care to investigate out of hand?

Should we ban iphones because there is no evidence of long term harm? And i have no agenda i just hate people telling me what i can and cant do especially when there is no evidence that these things are harmful/not harmful..

john_cappa

Stab*City wrote: »

Why prohibit them when there is no evidence they are harmful/not harmful? Shouldnt we have some information before we jump the gun and close all head shops (take away jobs, tax revenue and more when at a time we need every penny we can get)? Or like you should we just dismiss what we dont understand or care to investigate out of hand?

Should we ban iphones because there is no evidence of long term harm? And i have no agenda i just hate people telling me what i can and cant do especially when there is no evidence that these things are harmful/not harmful..

oh stop with the "take away revenue/jobs" heart strings. While i said on the previous page "close them down" i have twice said above certain substances the head shops sell should be made illegal rather than close them down.

Where did i "dismiss what we dont understand"? am i not the advocate for the investigation to increase understanding? it is not me who is asking for the research and information about these drugs to ensure that they are safe to consumer?

or should we just dismiss the possibility that they may have long term effect let who ever wants to take them- take them...... and deal with the consequences in 20 years?

john_cappa

Stab*City wrote: »

Should we ban iphones because there is no evidence of long term harm?.

there is research being completed that suggests they are not though in some cases....

http://intl-caonline.amcancersoc.org/cgi/content/full/51/2/137

http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2458/5/39/


and harmful in other....

http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0015028207003329


Two very different things...phones.....compared to drugs that cause hallucinations. Not really comparable.

DOC09UNAM

Honestly if you choose to take or smoke anything out of a head shop, then well, thats up to you.

but if you dont, then you dont, dont whinge about the shop being there.

people smoke, which destroys there arterys, lungs, heart etc etc. they still do it.

its all about choice.

Itsdacraic

A bag for me
A bag for you
Lets get wrecked on
Bags of glue

vkid

john_cappa wrote: »

People are informed? really? point me to the research that show BZP and saliva have no long term physical or psychological effects? very hard to be informed when the research is not done.

Similar to the debate between pro hormones being safer than steroids.

You also skipped my point about choices/addiction

You clearly have an axe to grind with the government.

BZP is illegal for some time so is no longer available in any headshop. there's a fair bit of research done on both salvia and BZP if you search for it.
I've used head shops a few times and find them much better to use than giving money to some drug gangsters from Weston or Moyross. They should be used for the deciminalisation of cannabis imo. If you dont want to use them, fair enough but closing them down is ridiculous imo. Prohibition doesnt work as can be seen all over the place in Limerick, and is one of the reasons we have gang wars in the city. People want to get high. thats just the way it is and always has been. a lot of drugs have been consumed for thousands of years in various forms..the law wont change that imo

john_cappa

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

Honestly if you choose to take or smoke anything out of a head shop, then well, thats up to you.

but if you dont, then you dont, dont whinge about the shop being there.

people smoke, which destroys there arterys, lungs, heart etc etc. they still do it.

its all about choice.

who is whinging? we having a relatively intelligent debate until you arrived......

Are we not supposed to discuss things now?? is this not a forum for airing our opinions?

its all about the choice is it? so should we legalise heroin so? why not? its all about the choice isnt it? but can other peoples choices effect me as easy as my own choices can?

vkid wrote: »

BZP is illegal for some time so is no longer available in any headshop. there's a fair bit of research done on both salvia and BZP if

I am aware BZP is now illegal. Took long enough though.

Can you point me to some of the research on salvia? positive or negative. I have read some positive research on it being used to treat depression i think

vkid wrote: »

I've used head shops a few times and find them much better to use than giving money to some drug gangsters from Weston or Moyross.

That is a fair point but many of the people who buy "stuff" in head shops may not have access to drugs from other illegal sources.

My main point is just because this stuff is legal then it is better and there is the misconception that it may not be doing you any harm.

DOC09UNAM

john_cappa wrote: »

who is whinging? we having a relatively intelligent debate until you arrived......

Are we not supposed to discuss things now?? is this not a forum for airing our opinions?

its all about the choice is it? so should we legalise heroin so? why not? its all about the choice isnt it? but can other peoples choices effect me as easy as my own choices can?




I am aware BZP is now illegal. Took long enough though.

Can you point me to some of the research on salvia? positive or negative. I have read some positive research on it being used to treat depression i think




That is a fair point but many of the people who buy "stuff" in head shops may not have access to drugs from other illegal sources.

My main point is just because this stuff is legal then it is better and there is the misconception that it may not be doing you any harm.

is all im reading, very defensive even though nothing was directed at you.

when people in head shops start interrupting with your life on a daily basis, then you can lobby for them to be shut down.

as it stands, i see nobody that uses head shops complaining about them.

and yeah, it's all about choice.

john_cappa

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

when people in head shops start interrupting with your life on a daily basis, then you can lobby for them to be shut down.

just because something doesnt effect your daily life you should ignore it?

A very apathetic outlook.

Take for example the following extreme.

The gangs in limerick were ignored for a long time by the general public as it didnt effect them directly (though it was effecting all the people in the actual communities). Good sunday paper reading and that was it for the majority! Now the gang problem is effecting the general public. Innocent people have lost their lives. The crime is out of the back streets and into public streets. Trying to reclaim control now is much more difficult.

All it takes for evil to triumph is.........

Raiser

There's too much teenage angst on this thread, too many shouts of "its not fair" and spoilt-Child door slamming.

- The plain fact is that these people are willing to sell what ever they can to whoever they can at the highest possible profit margin they can attain.

There's Folks on here that sound like they're defending people of decency and integrity. To those of you I recommend that you keep your receipts. Then if you do suffer physical or mental harm that serves to seriously fúck up your quality of life in a few years time you can just go back to the Head Shop and they'll help you with Hospital bills, time off work and cook you nourishing Chicken soup :rolleyes:

E V E R Y T H I N G is legal if it just so happens that it has not been legislated for yet.

Anyone see the Documentary where out and out Scobes in Dublin were secretly filming selling this shít to progressively lower aged Kids? One Scumbag sold a pair of girls well under 18 stuff and then warned them not to take it on the street as they'd probably be paralysed and helpless on the ground - Nah, they'll take it in the sitting room while Mammy and Daddy are watching Prime Time.

Whats to defend here? ........ Its almost confusing........

P.S. Stab City anyone who can strengthen their arguments by threatening to eat their keyboard is deserving of a special brand of respect.

Respect Dude

john_cappa

^^^ lol

DarkJager

Raiser wrote: »

There's too much teenage angst on this thread, too many shouts of "its not fair" and spoilt-Child door slamming.

Makes a change from the clueless anti drug zealots spouting the usual nonsense.

- The plain fact is that these people are willing to sell what ever they can to whoever they can at the highest possible profit margin they can attain.

Isn't that the whole point of running a business? Would you say the same about pubs?

here's Folks on here that sound like they're defending people of decency and integrity. To those of you I recommend that you keep your receipts. Then if you do suffer physical or mental harm that serves to seriously fúck up your quality of life in a few years time you can just go back to the Head Shop and they'll help you with Hospital bills, time off work and cook you nourishing Chicken soup :rolleyes:

What makes you think the people running these shops are scumbags? Is it ingrained into your narrow mind that anybody distrubing an untaxed substance for people to enjoy themselves on is a scumbag? And I suggest you start keeping your receipts too...every time you go to the chipper, the off licence, the pub, **** it even the shop. You'll want them to pay you back in a few years when they've ****ed you up as well :rolleyes:

Anyone see the Documentary where out and out Scobes in Dublin were secretly filming selling this shít to progressively lower aged Kids? One Scumbag sold a pair of girls well under 18 stuff and then warned them not to take it on the street as they'd probably be paralysed and helpless on the ground - Nah, they'll take it in the sitting room while Mammy and Daddy are watching Prime Time.

Whats that got to do with head shops? They can only control who they sell to, not what happens to the product after it leaves the shop. What exactly is your point?

Whats to defend here? ........ Its almost confusing........

Its not confusing, I'll even spell it out slowly for you. Its ADULT CHOICE. Adults are allowed to choose what they do. They can choose what they put into their bodies, be it for recreational or personal reasons. They have a right to walk into a shop and purchase such legal products. And its about time the people in this country who think they need to hold everybodies hand shut the **** up and take a back seat. Nobody wants a nanny state, and nobody appreciates goody two shoes who don't know what they are talking about, dictating what they can and can't do on their own ****ing time with their own ****ing money.

End of story.

Paulegend

^^^^ think the government would have something different to say about "adults choice" on what you can and cant put into your body.

alot of this stuff will mess you up.

''To every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction"

if something makes you feel light headed its not good for you. simple as. dont get me wrong i drink i know there are risks but im ok with that. im also ok with anyone of you who want to do cocain. the government isnt ok with that but im not the government. all i can do is frown on you.

the issue here is that drug shop was robbed. its not about who can do what.

but it should be. the bigger issue here is kids getting hold of these things. these can physically and mentally harm kids. you may think its funny or you may think so what but the problem is people just look out for themselves.

the reality is governments make things such as drugs illegal because joe scumbag isnt resposible enough to look after himself and his kids health. thats the truth. maybe if these idiots grew up and stopped just laughing and having a skit or a snear about some kid ending up in hospital bacause they foung daddies "e's" then maybe we could have a civilized society where we could choose what we want to put into our bodies or not.

Paulegend

why are they called headshops





and by the way this aint the start of a joke:D

TestTransmission

Headshops sell things that are pleasurable for your head...

Paulegend

jackncoke wrote: »

Headshops sell things that are pleasurable for your head...

ahh do they sell hats:D

concussion

Paulegend wrote: »

''To every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction"

That's physics. It's not as straightforward when you're discussing pharmacodynamics.


The effects of alcohol, both immediate and long-term are well known. The same cannot be said for BZP. There is little data on human studies because in the 70's it was found to behave much like amphetamine and testing for its use as a treatment for depression were abandoned as a result. Tests on rats have shown that BZP produces cross-sensitization to other stimulants such as meth-amphetamine.

From a report I wrote this year

The risk assessment by the [EU] Scientific Committee states

“there is no evidence that BZP use leads to serious social harm. However, an important caveat is that the lack of evidence makes drawing any strong conclusions difficult.”

The report goes on to recommend that BZP should be controlled due to

“…its stimulant properties, risk to health and the lack of medical benefits…”

Scientific Committee of the EU Drugs Agency, Risk Assessment Report of a new psychoactive substance: 1-benzylpiperazine (BZP),accessed on 01/12/08 from the website of the European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addiction, https://ednd-cma.emcdda.europa.eu/assets/upload/Risk_Assessment_Report_BZP.pdf

john_cappa

Paulegend wrote: »

^^^^ think the government would have something different to say about "adults choice" on what you can and cant put into your body.

alot of this stuff will mess you up.

''To every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction"

if something makes you feel light headed its not good for you. simple as. dont get me wrong i drink i know there are risks but im ok with that. im also ok with anyone of you who want to do cocain. the government isnt ok with that but im not the government. all i can do is frown on you.

the issue here is that drug shop was robbed. its not about who can do what.

but it should be. the bigger issue here is kids getting hold of these things. these can physically and mentally harm kids. you may think its funny or you may think so what but the problem is people just look out for themselves.

the reality is governments make things such as drugs illegal because joe scumbag isnt resposible enough to look after himself and his kids health. thats the truth. maybe if these idiots grew up and stopped just laughing and having a skit or a snear about some kid ending up in hospital bacause they foung daddies "e's" then maybe we could have a civilized society where we could choose what we want to put into our bodies or not.

Great post paul

rant rave

Serious amount of bitching in this thread.
Live your own lives.
Any way I hear its a bitter feud that both shops have gotten involved in robbing each others stock of willy shaped bongs,
thats all I have to say, fight away.

Paulegend

rant rave wrote: »

Serious amount of bitching in this thread.
Live your own lives.
Any way I hear its a bitter feud that both shops have gotten involved in robbing each others stock of willy shaped bongs,
thats all I have to say, fight away.

but still wont someone think of the children

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

rainbowdrop

Itsdacraic wrote: »

A bag for me
A bag for you
Lets get wrecked on
Bags of glue

Sex, Drugs, Rock and Rave
Lets get smashed and misbehave
On Speed and Weed and little E's
Lets get fcuked and talk to trees
Lifes a trip, and then you die
So fcuk the world.... Let's get high

As long as people want to buy from Headshops, they should have the freedom to make the choice for themselves what they want to put in their bodies. I sometimes take 'party pills' that have been bought LEGALLY in headshops, and yes, I (and my friends) don't fully know the risks yet, but fcuk it..... I already know the risks from drinking and smoking, and it doesn't stop me from doing either of those things.

Some of you people that are posting here talking about the dangers, have you ever tried taking legal highs yourselves? Just interested to know if you have experienced them, or if you are just spouting the propaganda that you read in newspapers etc, that never give a balanced view? The view that there are good sides to taking drugs, as well as bad!!

concussion

rainbowdrop wrote: »

The view that there are good sides to taking drugs, as well as bad!!

Like what?

john_cappa

rant rave wrote: »

Serious amount of bitching in this thread.
Live your own lives.

Where is the bitching? we are discussing and debating.......im sure thats what the forum is for....

rainbowdrop wrote: »

I sometimes take 'party pills' that have been bought LEGALLY in headshops, and yes, I (and my friends) don't fully know the risks yet, but fcuk it..... I already know the risks from drinking and smoking, and it doesn't stop me from doing either of those things.

Thats kind of my point. People can make the choice about drink/smoke as the risks are well known etc. The risks about "party pills" etc are not so people cant make informed choices.

rainbowdrop wrote: »

Some of you people that are posting here talking about the dangers, have you ever tried taking legal highs yourselves? Just interested to know if you have experienced them, or if you are just spouting the propaganda that you read in newspapers etc, that never give a balanced view? The view that there are good sides to taking drugs, as well as bad!!

I have not ever taking a legal high, Ive had enough illegal ones tbh. Been through counselling etc. I am not sprouting propaganda but am taking the view that they should be illegal until sufficient research has been done as to the long term effects on the body/mind.

There are no long term good sides to taking drugs. None. Zero. Zilsch.

mormank

john_cappa wrote: »

just because something doesnt effect your daily life you should ignore it?

A very apathetic outlook.

Take for example the following extreme.

The gangs in limerick were ignored for a long time by the general public as it didnt effect them directly (though it was effecting all the people in the actual communities). Good sunday paper reading and that was it for the majority! Now the gang problem is effecting the general public. Innocent people have lost their lives. The crime is out of the back streets and into public streets. Trying to reclaim control now is much more difficult.

All it takes for evil to triumph is.........

.........for good men to not write on boards about it!!

nah im all for choice but dont like hypocrites. alcohol is the drug that causes most problems in ireland now and is perfectly legal. start canvassing for that to be banned then get back to me on this issue

john_cappa

mormank wrote: »

nah im all for choice but dont like hypocrites. alcohol is the drug that causes most problems in ireland now and is perfectly legal. start canvassing for that to be banned then get back to me on this issue

Are you so obtuse that you can not see my point? ok ill break it down for you....

Alcohol is legal? yes....there is a huge amount of research completed on the long term effects? yes.....so people can make an informed choice...

Stuff in head shops legal? yes......is there alot of research done on the long term (or even short term) effect of said drugs? no there is not......so how can people make an informed choice?

As said we dont live in a world where "joe public" can be counted on to make the "correct" decision for themselves and/or their children

Also re alcohol being banned i refer you to post 18 in this thread.