FG want penalty points for illegal parking in disability spaces

Dannyboy83

http://www.finegael.org/news/a/1553/article
Fine Gael Disability Spokesman David Stanton TD has called for the introduction of penalty points for drivers who illegally park in bays reserved for people with disabilities. Under the current system, illegal parking in these spaces carries a fixed charge fine of €80 but no penalty points.

“Reserved parking spaces are regularly being used illegally by able-bodied drivers. The current penalty for illegal parking in spaces reserved for people with disabilities was introduced in April 2006. But when I questioned Transport Minister Noel Dempsey about increasing the fines and enforcement for this offence, he said he was satisfied with the fixed charge and had no plans to alter it.

“The focus to date has been on the illegal use of disabled parking permits. While I believe this is an extremely important matter, enforcement measures should also be increased for illegal parking in disabled bays. Drivers who use wheelchairs are particularly dependent on these spaces. Illegal parking, even for a short period, causes great inconvenience and even hardship.

“Drivers in general should be more aware and responsible. But imposing penalty points would deter persistent offenders. I will be raising this matter in Dáil Éireann again shortly.”

=============================
Would you be in favour of the above proposal?
Personally, I would not, but then no members of my immediate family require use of disability bays. Nor do I ever park illegally in them.

Is illegal parking in these bays really such a frequent issue that it would warrant penalty points? Or perhaps its overkill?

Taxipete29

It is quite a big issue and I think its a great idea. Serves them right.

super_furry

Can't see why anyone would object to this, sounds like a great idea.

Mr. Presentable

And mark the spaces up like this

stevedublin

you mean those disability spaces that are permanently empty when all the other spaces are taken.

Mr. Presentable

So, would she get double points?

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/184/401166637_0dd368db89_o.jpg

neil_purdy

nipplenuts wrote: »

So, would she get double points?

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/184/401166637_0dd368db89_o.jpg

I like the way you assumed it was a SHE.. Correctly assumed i must add!!!

Yeah points for people who do this.. Points for everyone in the audience!

stevedublin

FG must be getting a lot of donations from car insurance companies!

Colm R

I would not be in favour of this to be honest.

They should concentrate points on the road safety side of things. Parking in a disabled spot is not really a road safety issue.

Now by all means, hike up the fines and punish the people who use these spaces when they should not. But keep the points to punish specific safety offences.

mike65

Sledghammer to crack a nut job tbh.

fifth

It's a sensitive issue, but I know families who regularly need these spaces due to their close proximity to services/shops..

I don't agree that people should be allowed use these spaces for any reason, even if they're just 'running in to the shop for a second'.

If anyone feels that they are unecessary or unjustified then they are simply out of touch and these people deserve penalty points!

ednwireland

seems reasonable to me

bmaxi

Personally I would favour confiscation of the car. Think of the revenue to the State of flogging off all those Beamers, Mercs and Range Rovers.

Fighting Irish

They should introduce penalty points for that a load of other stuff too. Follow the rules or gtfo.
50 penalty points for thinking its ok to park/stop on double yellow lines and flick on the auld hazard lights

Sleipnir

stevedublin wrote: »

you mean those disability spaces that are permanently empty when all the other spaces are taken.

but....they're empty because they're reserved? What's the point in having spaces reserved for the disabled if everyone can park in them?
And they're not permanently empty.

To answer the OP's question, yes, absolutely. You're not permitted to park there unless you have the blue card so if you don't have one, you should get points.
Don't have the blue card, then don't park there.

lucylu

I agree with this totally. I am sick of this attitude from lazy people thinking I will park there if I want to. Those spaces are there for a reason and rightly so.

Liam Byrne

I've no problem with this.

Whinging about the level of the punishment is irrelevant if you don't do it.

Whatever about the extent of the crime, it shows contempt for the rules of the road and the needs of other road users, so it's an indicator of an individual's mindset.

Biggins

I all for it too - with good reason.
I have a brother that is brain-damaged and suffers from epilepsy too.
When we or my parents try to take him out, at least 50% of the time of our nearest towns disabled parking spaces are taken up by non-disabled.

Fair is fair - come on! Your healthy and fit? Walk a bit more and do the decent thing as a responsible adult.
Leave the disabled spaces for the disabled for crying out loud!

Dannyboy83

Biggins wrote: »

, at least 50% of the time of our nearest towns disabled parking spaces are taken up by non-disabled.

In that case, the policy would seem justified.

I never see any of the disabled spaces here in Cork being used, which is why I thought it was overkill. Perhaps we just have better facilities here for the disabled than other areas of the country.

Vyse

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

In that case, the policy would seem justified.

I never see any of the disabled spaces here in Cork being used, which is why I thought it was overkill. Perhaps we just have better facilities here for the disabled than other areas of the country.

I saw two here in Cork today at lunch time. Always boils my blood.

Mr. Presentable

Biggins wrote: »

I all for it too - with good reason.
I have a brother that is brain-damaged and suffers from epilepsy too.
When we or my parents try to take him out, at least 50% of the time of our nearest towns disabled parking spaces are taken up by non-disabled.

Fair is fair - come on! Your healthy and fit? Walk a bit more and do the decent thing as a responsible adult.
Leave the disabled spaces for the disabled for crying out loud!

Park across the back of the f**kers so they can't get out.

Tipp Man

I got a fine for parking in a disabled spot in Ranelagh once. In my defence i had no idea it was a disabled spot (i.e was in a hurry so didn't see the sign on the road)

It's probably worth a point or 2 for using them, they are there for a reason

jhegarty

They should make the fine worthwhile (€500 minimum) , but not points. Points should be for safety issues only.

Cuddlesworth

What's the point in introducing a law that will get enforced once in a blue moon? How would this have any effect on private car parks in which the laws regarding public parking have no effect. I don't think any of these politicians have actually thought any of this out?

yoshytoshy

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

What's the point in introducing a law that will get enforced once in a blue moon? How would this have any effect on private car parks in which the laws regarding public parking have no effect. I don't think any of these politicians have actually thought any of this out?

It could be easily introduced by using camera evidence ,then send along the points in the post.
Once a photo is sent on to whatever office ,that should be proof enough.

I've personally never notice a problem in dublin ,but it's probably harder to get around some rural parts of ireland.

NewDubliner

Colm R wrote: »

They should concentrate points on the road safety side of things. Parking in a disabled spot is not really a road safety issue.

Have you ever tried to transfer from car to wheelchair?

You have no idea what its like.

Disabled drivers or their passengers need extra wide, specially provisioned spaces so that their wheelchairs are not out on the road, exposed to traffic.

bmaxi

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

What's the point in introducing a law that will get enforced once in a blue moon? How would this have any effect on private car parks in which the laws regarding public parking have no effect. I don't think any of these politicians have actually thought any of this out?

The private supermarket carparks seem to have no problem clamping cars that overstay their time by a few minutes but has anyone seen a car clamped for parking in a disabled spot without a pass?
Having said that, I've lost count of the times I've seen cars pull up with a pass on the windscreen and the occupants trip merrily into the store.

kayakboy

More populist guff - if it's not one crowd it's the other. Penalty points are supposed to target dangerous motoring offences speeding, dangerous driving etc; While parking in a disabled parking spot might be classed as rude, ignorant, immoral and socially unacceptable it is not dangerous and hence should only be punished by fines - hefty ones at that.
here's another classic - this one a bit closer to home.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/michelle-o/3521736531/

NewDubliner

kayakboy wrote: »

Penalty points are supposed to target dangerous motoring offences speeding, dangerous driving etc;

No they're not. Dangerous driving is a separate and more serious offence dealt with only in the courts. You can go to prison for it.

Penalty points apply for routine speeding, seatbelt offences, motor insurance and careless driving, mobile phone use, ignoring Garda signals, ignoring road signs, not stopping on amber, poor lane use, driving on footpaths, cycle tracks, not yielding, failing to show consideration.

Liam Byrne

kayakboy wrote: »

While parking in a disabled parking spot might be classed as rude, ignorant, immoral and socially unacceptable it is not dangerous and hence should only be punished by fines - hefty ones at that.

As stated already, parking in disabled spots DOES cause danger, because the disabled driver has to disembark to their wheelchair at the side of the street.

So parking there indirectly endangers their life; you mightn't even be around when they get splattered, since they had to park a mile away, but it would be 100% your fault.

oeb

The whole penalty points system exists as a way to discourage people from dangerous driving. It serves as a means to get them off our roads, or at least warn them that that is where they are headed. Is an able bodied person who parks in a disabled space an arsehole? Almost certainly. Does parking in a disabled space put other road users at risk? Not except in the most extreme of circumstances.

Keep the penalty points for what they are intended, up the fixed fine, but just because someone parks like a jackass does not mean they should be put off the road (Or at least put on that path), it should not mean that their insurance is higher either (Which of course is a side effect of penalty points).

slimjimmc

NewDubliner wrote: »

No they're not. Dangerous driving is a separate and more serious offence dealt with only in the courts. You can go to prison for it.

Penalty points apply for routine speeding, seatbelt offences, motor insurance and careless driving, mobile phone use, ignoring Garda signals, ignoring road signs, not stopping on amber, poor lane use, driving on footpaths, cycle tracks, not yielding, failing to show consideration.

Two dangerous offences are included : "Dangerous overtaking" (no court appearance) and "Parking a vehicle in a dangerous position" (mandatory court appearance)
http://penaltypoints.ie/the_full_list_of_offences.php


Don't have an issue with penalty points for misuse of handicap places, but I doubt it's going to be enforced any more than at present.

Overheal

Colm R wrote: »

I would not be in favour of this to be honest.

They should concentrate points on the road safety side of things. Parking in a disabled spot is not really a road safety issue.

Now by all means, hike up the fines and punish the people who use these spaces when they should not. But keep the points to punish specific safety offences.

Rubbish. Handicap parking is there to ensure the disabled have a safe place to get in and out of their vehicle - frequently by chair lift or other mechanism. We able bodied folk have enough time squeezing out of Parking Complex spaces. Imagine being disabled while doing it. How long would it be before some disabled (can I call them cripples? Im in the mood) falls flat on their face because they cant get out of their car properly. This is also why they're located at the front - both for the convenience thing, and if something goes wrong, help is nearby.

So yeah it is a road safety issue. And for arguments I believe parking lots are typically under Jurisdiction of local authorities, usually at the behest of the property owner.

Cuddlesworth

yoshytoshy wrote: »

It could be easily introduced by using camera evidence ,then send along the points in the post.
Once a photo is sent on to whatever office ,that should be proof enough.

I've personally never notice a problem in dublin ,but it's probably harder to get around some rural parts of ireland.

And once again, a law passed for a public car park does not apply to a private car park. Its private land, a whole new law outlining what is a disabled space and how and why it is placed, how it is maintained, marked and policed will have to come into effect. To put it another way, have you ever seen police in a private shopping centre car park issue a parking ticket? they can't because they have no right. Christ technically clamping is illegal outside of sanctioned county council use on public spaces.

bmaxi wrote: »

The private supermarket carparks seem to have no problem clamping cars that overstay their time by a few minutes but has anyone seen a car clamped for parking in a disabled spot without a pass?
Having said that, I've lost count of the times I've seen cars pull up with a pass on the windscreen and the occupants trip merrily into the store.

That's the worst I think. When somebody who clearly doesn't need it but has the sticker parks in one. Its at that point you know they have a close relative or partner who requires it, but is still that much of a prick to park there anyway.

ktc1

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

That's the worst I think. When somebody who clearly doesn't need it but has the sticker parks in one. Its at that point you know they have a close relative or partner who requires it, but is still that much of a prick to park there anyway.

It's not always as clear cut as that. I have a friend with MS. She appears healthy but is prone to extreme fatigue which can come on suddenly. She tends to use normal spaces on her good days and the handicapped spots on her off days. I am sure there are other illnesses and disabilities that would not be readily apparent. Equally as you say, I'm sure some people use their partners/realtives sticker, hopefully karma will get them.

kangaroo

ktc1 wrote: »

Cuddlesworth wrote:

That's the worst I think. When somebody who clearly doesn't need it but has the sticker parks in one. Its at that point you know they have a close relative or partner who requires it, but is still that much of a prick to park there anyway.

It's not always as clear cut as that. I have a friend with MS. She appears healthy but is prone to extreme fatigue which can come on suddenly. She tends to use normal spaces on her good days and the handicapped spots on her off days. I am sure there are other illnesses and disabilities that would not be readily apparent.

There are.

There's a webpage on this issue, "Don't Judge by Appearances. Parking with Invisible Disabilities", at:
http://www.invisibledisabilities.org/park.htm

Clare_Guy

laziness is a disability too...

starbelgrade

Overheal wrote: »

(can I call them cripples? Im in the mood)

You might be "in the mood", but I find your comment a bit strange. Would you call someone missing a limb a "cripple"?

994

For God's sake.

The state essentially bankrupt, thousands of young people booking one-way flights, and FG are bull****ting about parking spots.

NewDubliner

994 wrote: »

For God's sake.The state essentially bankrupt,

Then, its time for a bit of social discipline.

daveyboy_1ie

110% agree, there should be more enforcing of this as the amount of people use them is astonishing (to say they are all women is a bit ott lol, men are just as selfish when it comes to parking.

goose2002

Stupid idea in my opinion. People seem to fail to realise, the more things you apply penalty points to, the more you "cheapen" the penalty points per say. They are already applied to some things for which I think they are not necessarily needed. As penalty points are applied to more and more offences they begin to become more common and count for less. It is not uncommon in the UK say for insurance companies to disregard 3 or in some cases 6 points when working out a quote for insurance. Over the last few years penalty points have been given out in the UK like candy almost, and as such insurance companies have started to accept that a large amount of drivers will simply have them. Large fines for parking in disabled spaces yes, but penalty point are unnecessary. Just a Fine Gael PR stunt to work off peoples emotions and grab a few more votes.

mickstupp

For some odd reason I'd always assumed it was a penalty points offense...

bonzos

Why is everyone not in favour of giving points to the scumbags and Ass holes who dump their bmw's,merc's etc .....in these spaces. I dont see the problem

DublinWriter

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

What's the point in introducing a law that will get enforced once in a blue moon? How would this have any effect on private car parks in which the laws regarding public parking have no effect. I don't think any of these politicians have actually thought any of this out?

Exactly.

Car parks are on private land.

Car parks are on private land.

Car parks are on private land.

See the problem yet? The whole issue would be a legal nightmare, especially considering the current situation where many people up before the courts for drunk driving charges are able to employ top barristers to beat the wrap on a technicality.

It should be up to the third party company employed by the shopping centre to mete out the punishment. Some clamp, many don't as they don't want to p*ss off customers.

FG chasing popular sentiment again, right up there with Enda's hairbrained scheme to compensate Eircom shareholders.

bonkey

goose2002 wrote: »

Stupid idea in my opinion. People seem to fail to realise, the more things you apply penalty points to, the more you "cheapen" the penalty points per say.

I would have said the opposite. The easier it is to pick up penalty-points, the sooner the driver is at the position where they pay attention to every little last detail so that they don't lose their license.

It is not uncommon in the UK say for insurance companies to disregard 3 or in some cases 6 points when working out a quote for insurance. Over the last few years penalty points have been given out in the UK like candy almost, and as such insurance companies have started to accept that a large amount of drivers will simply have them.

Rather, they started to accept that anyone can have a momentary slip, leading to a couple of points....but the people who repeatedly offend are the ones to watch out for.

I don't see a problem with that.

Large fines for parking in disabled spaces yes, but penalty point are unnecessary. Just a Fine Gael PR stunt to work off peoples emotions and grab a few more votes.

If FG proposed a fine of 1000 euro for it, someone else would be making the complaint that its just a PR stunt to work off peoples' emotions and grab a few more votes...and that it should be a regular fine and that if it was really that big a deal, why weren't they suggesting points.

loobylou

Talking of "cheapening" the system does anyone else get irritated by those reserved parking spaces in supermarkets for pregnant women or for mothers with children.
They are usually prime spots beside the disabled parking. Entitling able bodied people to park there devalues the entire system.

gizmo555

loobylou wrote: »

does anyone else get irritated by those reserved parking spaces in supermarkets for . . . mothers with children.

They're not for "mothers with children" - they're for anyone one with children, including fathers like me who greatly appreciate them.

loobylou

Can the little dears walk?:)

gizmo555

loobylou wrote: »

Can the little dears walk?:)

No, not yet . . .

Rb

loobylou wrote: »

Talking of "cheapening" the system does anyone else get irritated by those reserved parking spaces in supermarkets for pregnant women or for mothers with children.
.

Yes absolutely, I regularly park in them (as a childless male) and don't care what onlookers think. Parking for parents and children? Hah, no thank you.

They should re-designate them as disabled spots or scrap them, they're a joke.

I'm in favour of the proposal with regards to parking in disabled spots, I notice its generally a certain calibre of person who does it and I couldn't give a fook if they get landed with a few points for doing so. People can argue that the Government have more important things to be focusing on right now, however with dopes such as the ICTU objecting to everything and throwing the toys out of the pram at every opportunity, it'd do them no harm to take care of a few little matters in the mean time