Does GAA make us worse at internationally played sports

Louisc

I'm thinking especially about Soccer.
Would we have a better soccer team if GAA were not so popular ?

I'm thinking especially about places like Kerry and Kilkenny, what's the chances of a good international soccer player coming out of these counties. I'm thinking not much chance, because GAA probably takes priority at local level and good athletes commit to football and hurling.

Has there ever been a good international soccer player from Kerry, Mayo, Kilkenny, Roscommon, Offaly, or most rural counties where GAA is popular?

I'd hazard a guess that we would have far more premiership players were it not for the GAA

Ian_K

Slighty controversial but ya i tend to agree...
If the GAA never existed then ya id say we probably wud be more succesful at other sports BUT maybe other things are more important than that...
The GAA is aboout local pride; in club, county and country - not about international recognition...
So i don't know about anyone else but i certaintly wudn't want to sacrifice any aspect of the GAA to make our international soccer team more competitive!!

Diabhal Beag

No. If somebody is good at football or rugby then they will choose to play the professional sport (ala Kennelly). Everybody plays soccer with their friends so if they had potential to make it the would know.

drkpower

Louisc wrote: »

I'd hazard a guess that we would have far more premiership players were it not for the GAA

Clearly.
But if it wasnt for soccer, we would have a better rugby team and the standard of GAA would be far better.
And if there wasnt rugby, we would have a better soccer team and the standard of GAA would be far better.
And if there was no tennis, we would have better badminton and squash teams.....

etc..
Im sure you see where I am going.

me_right_one

People play what they want to play. The sport itself is not to blame

Ian_K

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

No. If somebody is good at football or rugby then they will choose to play the professional sport (ala Kennelly). Everybody plays soccer with their friends so if they had potential to make it the would know.

True in most cases but what if you are brought up in a place where there is no soccer team and it is a pure GAA culture...
I doubt many of the Kerry players ever had the chance to play soccer when they were growing up so for all we know Tomás O Sé could have been a world class soccer player had things been different...
I think the point of this thread is to imagine a different Ireland altogether where GAA was not such a dominant force and other sports were played in every village in every corner of the country - as the GAA is



It is a horrible thought i know!

Orizio

Its basically a truism to say if one sport didn't exist in a country, then other sports would benefit.

me_right_one

DAMN! Lesbian naked mud-wrestling is missing out:mad:

flahavaj

Why does it have to be if there was no GAA though?

Just as equally if there was no soccer or rugby the standard of intercounty GAA would be better.

Whats your point OP?

Micky Dolenz

I would say the GAA actually is a great thing for our internatonal sports people. Ireland has a lot rugby players all great under a high ball, due to no small part from playing GAA as youngsters.

rebel girl 15

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I would say the GAA actually is a great thing for our internatonal sports people. Ireland has a lot rugby players all great under a high ball, due to no small part from playing GAA as youngsters.

Something like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hu_2NmTDH-E&feature=related

I think if we didn't have the GAA, we would have something else - given the history of the country, we would have ended up adapting other games to our own or create our own games, such as English rugby travelled to America, and became NFL.

drkpower

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

I think if we didn't have the GAA, we would have something else - given the history of the country, we would have ended up adapting other games to our own or create our own games, such as English rugby travelled to America, and became NFL.

Unlikely; a country having its own unique national sport that is so popular is rare enough, certainly in Western countries.

homerjay2005

if we didnt have GAA, we maybe actually worst off in soccer and Rugby as these give us the basis to be a sports mad country and has given us a massive sports tradition.

people also forget we have one of the smallest populations in the world when it comes to being a big player in international sports. we aint too badly off at all. we were once 6th in teh world in soccer and 3rd in the world in rugby, though that aint a world played sport.

Het-Field

Probably. I think some of our best athletes are GAA heads, and the rest play soccer and rugby. However, the offset is, that the infrastructure around the internationally focused sports would probably gravitate towards the major cities

LeoB

All the sports would probably benefit but I think especially Athletics. There have been some real speed merchants over the years and some really good middle distance runners who have opted for G.A.A.

I dont think we would have a better soccer team without the G.A.A. Denis Irwin, Shane Long, Kevin Moran, Niall Quinn to name but a few are quick to point out what the G.A.A has done to them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJi8wEyk-wo

thirtyfoot

LeoB wrote: »

There have been some real speed merchants over the years and some really good middle distance runners who have opted for G.A.A.

Do you have any examples of these speed merchants (out of interest)?

On the general topic. Of course other sports would benefit if there wasn't GAA as there would be a much larger pool for other sports to pick from.

GAA doesn't make us worse at global sports, it may reduce numbers yes, but it may also force global sports to raise their game to rival GAA and its appeal and standards at local or county level. If rugby/soccer or whatever clubs wish to recruit and retain potential members they would need to ensure they carry on their business on a par with some GAA clubs who are very progressive. In that sense, GAA may have raised the bar of grassroots sport.

I think those who are likely to choose and succeed to a world class level in a global sport will naturally gravitate towards those sports as the international aspect of their sport is one of the factors that drives them and this motivation will never be satisfied in GAA.

LeoB

Tingle wrote: »

Do you have any examples of these speed merchants (out of interest)?

On the general topic. Of course other sports would benefit if there wasn't GAA as there would be a much larger pool for other sports to pick from.

I think those who are likely to choose and succeed to a world class level in a global sport will naturally gravitate towards those sports as the international aspect of their sport is one of the factors that drives them and this motivation will never be satisfied in GAA.

David Beggy comes to mind as a speed merchant. Also Pat Spillane, Keith Barr, Michael Donnellon and I am sure if I made a few calls I would come up with more. I think also people like John Miskella, Shane Ryan and Tommy Walsh from the modern game could have been superb athletes.

Currently Luke Sweetman of the Dublin U/21 team was a Leinster if not All-Ireland 800mtr champion. Might not have the distance right. But he opted for G.A.A. which is his call. I think Athletics is the biggest loser as there are plenty of natural athletes playing up and down the country.

As for your last line "this motivation will never be satisfied in GAA" I just cant agree with that. Having listened to Denis Irwin, Eric Millar, Keith Wood and Shane Horgan among others their dream was to wear the county jersey or play with their club in a county final. If you look around Leinster where soccer is strong there are a lot of guys who have given up soccer or been in England for the dream of playing for their county.

thirtyfoot

LeoB wrote: »

David Beggy comes to mind as a speed merchant. Also Pat Spillane, Keith Barr, Michael Donnellon and I am sure if I made a few calls I would come up with more. I think also people like John Miskella, Shane Ryan and Tommy Walsh from the modern game could have been superb athletes.

Currently Luke Sweetman of the Dublin U/21 team was a Leinster if not All-Ireland 800mtr champion. .

Very true and yes they appear fast on a GAA field but anyone who was in Croke Park for the 125 Relay race will have seen the difference between being fast on a GAA field and being fast in a global sport, eg Hession from Galway or O' Rourke from Cork. The difference was mind blowing. Don't want this to be a debate on the speed or otherwise of GAA etc as GAA players don't need to be fast on a straight line only, they have to contend and be competent at many other factors.

No doubt many athletes in global sports are 'lost' to GAA but I don't know of many athletes in athletics who achieved a great level of success, say internationally even at age group champs as opposed to a guy who was good at county/regional, and gave it up to concentrate on GAA. If Luke Sweetman's dream was to be an Olympian and he had the potential to be one, would he still be playing GAA?

LeoB wrote: »

.

As for your last line "this motivation will never be satisfied in GAA" I just cant agree with that. Having listened to Denis Irwin, Eric Millar, Keith Wood and Shane Horgan among others their dream was to wear the county jersey or play with their club in a county final. .

Of course, very true but thats not my point (as in global stars who have a gra for GAA) but its that many athletes who I know who compete to an international class had a dream when younger to go to the Olympics. GAA will never satisfy this and you can't deny that. There are many Olympians (eg David Gillick) I am sure who would also love to run out into Croke Park etc but my point is that the majority of those who are world class have got there as that was their motivation in their life/sport.

If you are a kid and your dream is to be an Olympian which will you choose - the qualifying standard for Rio '16 or the county team and the chance of Croke Park? Believe it or not, there are many kids whose dream it is to be an Olympian and not run out in Croke Park, I know I was one despite being from GAA country;)

damnyanks

If all the resources that go into GAA both via players, funding, trainers and facilities were to go into another sport it would at the very least produce at least one top level performer once every 7 years

A Robbie Keane, Shane Horgan type, not the best in the world but certainly 'world class'

Mardy Bum

The one sport that is truely GAA and International the GAA have neglected for years- Handball. Why?

heavyballs

flahavaj wrote: »

Why does it have to be if there was no GAA though?

Just as equally if there was no soccer or rugby the standard of intercounty GAA would be better.

Whats your point OP?

as you received no reply from op, i think his point is prety obvious,gaa is played (to a serious level)only in this country,did you read the original post correctly?

Pride Fighter

Tingle wrote: »

Do you have any examples of these speed merchants (out of interest)?

Paul Hession was a GAA player before becoming a world class sprinter. We do not know the amount of GAA players that could be as fast as him as they will never be put on the clock for 1-400m athletic events.

aDeener

the flip side of that question: has the popularity of soccer etc decreased the standard of GAA?

aDeener

me_right_one wrote: »

DAMN! Lesbian naked mud-wrestling is missing out:mad:

as a result of ladies football/camogie?
no, its not

irishultra

homerjay2005 wrote: »

if we didnt have GAA, we maybe actually worst off in soccer and Rugby as these give us the basis to be a sports mad country and has given us a massive sports tradition.

people also forget we have one of the smallest populations in the world when it comes to being a big player in international sports. we aint too badly off at all. we were once 6th in teh world in soccer and 3rd in the world in rugby, though that aint a world played sport.

ireland is not a big player when it comes to sports at all. all small nations have moments of glory in soccer, look at denmark!!!

perhaps the gaa probably has made a thriving domestic soccer league harder to attain but then maby not. i think both could definetly co-exist as the cultures of both are entirely different.

thirtyfoot

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Paul Hession was a GAA player before becoming a world class sprinter.

Same could be said of many international sport stars from Ireland, many women athletes may have been ballet dancers but does this mean ballet dancers will have made great athletes or camogie players or basketball players. My original point is that if a kid goes down the individual global sport route and achieve international recognition then very few if any return to GAA as it has no global element and that is what does it for them and gets them through the tough times.

Pride Fighter wrote: »

We do not know the amount of GAA players that could be as fast as him as they will never be put on the clock for 1-400m athletic events.

True, thats why the original suggestion that many speed merchants reside in GAA is hard to prove. By sheer numbers there must be but being fast on GAA pitch and fast fast as in world class fast are on different planets. Thats just something that needs to be considered when making these assumptions that player x is fast and could have been a great athlete etc. Thats only the point I'm making.

Louisc

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Paul Hession was a GAA player before becoming a world class sprinter. We do not know the amount of GAA players that could be as fast as him as they will never be put on the clock for 1-400m athletic events.

I dont think the GAA prevents great athletics people from emerging.
Everybody finds out in the early years of their lives if they are fast runners or not, in the school yard and the community games. Every secondary school has an athletics team. Exceptional talent will usually be spotted. Paul Hession/ Eamon Coughlan/ Sonia all won the community games when they were young at a national level.

But I do think there is a lot of soccer talent which slips through the net because young people are born in parishes where GAA is strong.
If Roy Keane was born in my parish, he'd never have played in the premiership. I'd hazard a guess he'd have been a good GAA player though.

cournioni

I would imagine if there was no GAA that our domestic rugby and LOI leagues would be of a way higher standard...

LeoB

Tingle wrote: »

True, thats why the original suggestion that many speed merchants reside in GAA is hard to prove. By sheer numbers there must be but being fast on GAA pitch and fast fast as in world class fast are on different planets. Thats just something that needs to be considered when making these assumptions that player x is fast and could have been a great athlete etc. Thats only the point I'm making.

But if they concentrated (a GAA player) were to concentrate on athletics with the proper coaching I think we would unearth some good talent. I know its hard to prove but I suppose we will keep wondering and arguing about it.

LOUISC. I dont know where you are from but the few secondary schools I know never had athletics teams.
But I do feel athletics should be part of the school ciriculum, if only for the fact it would get young people involved in some healthy activity.

Kenteach

LeoB wrote: »

But if they concentrated (a GAA player) were to concentrate on athletics with the proper coaching I think we would unearth some good talent. I know its hard to prove but I suppose we will keep wondering and arguing about it.

LOUISC. I dont know where you are from but the few secondary schools I know never had athletics teams.
But I do feel athletics should be part of the school ciriculum, if only for the fact it would get young people involved in some healthy activity.

Athletics is part of the school curriculum.

Orizio

Louisc wrote: »

I dont think the GAA prevents great athletics people from emerging.
Everybody finds out in the early years of their lives if they are fast runners or not, in the school yard and the community games. Every secondary school has an athletics team. Exceptional talent will usually be spotted. Paul Hession/ Eamon Coughlan/ Sonia all won the community games when they were young at a national level.

But I do think there is a lot of soccer talent which slips through the net because young people are born in parishes where GAA is strong.
If Roy Keane was born in my parish, he'd never have played in the premiership. I'd hazard a guess he'd have been a good GAA player though.

If I remember correctly, he did play hurling when he was very young but damaged his leg and refused to play again.

rebel girl 15

Orizio wrote: »

If I remember correctly, he did play hurling when he was very young but damaged his leg and refused to play again.

Yeah - bas of the hurley cut his leg pretty badly. Denis Irwin was good enough to play for Cork apparantly, Tomas O Leary did play minor

LeoB

Kenteach wrote: »

Athletics is part of the school curriculum.

Athletics is one of 6 strands in physical education. Athletics plays little or no part in the majority of schools. Neither of my kids have done athletics in school and I would rate their school quite highly.

In this instance I take athletics as coaching children how to run properly or how to do a particular discipilne and not do laps of the school yard to keep warm!!!

rossie1977

Louisc wrote: »

I'm thinking especially about Soccer.
Would we have a better soccer team if GAA were not so popular ?

why soccer?? why not basketball or cricket or rugby or something else. would the usa be unbeatable at soccer or rugby if they didn't play baseball/gridiron/basketball and hockey, thats a far better question, i would love to see about half a dozen guys in the nfl line out on the rugby field

how good would australia be at soccer if they didn't play cricket, afl and both rugby codes to perfection??

remove gaa and any other sports from this country and you still only have 4 million people, thats less than half of what lives in london or paris

Browney7

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

I would imagine if there was no GAA that our domestic rugby and LOI leagues would be of a way higher standard...

The IRFU killed domestic rugby to make way for the franchises/provinces. The AIL used to be much bigger back in the day when Young Munsters were bringing record crowds to Landsdowne. The problem with rugby at the moment is that a lot of guys are lost between the ages of 18 and 21. Only the very best make the Munster/Leinster acadamies and a lot of good players don't give a fiddlers about club rugby seeing as they only play with their school for 5/6 years. That said rugby has never been as strong in this country but I wonder is it sustainable.

I've always wondered about the LOI alright though. I wonder if there was no GAA would the LOI be like the scottish premier(similar sized country) and would Rovers be like Celtic.

Louisc

I was at the Croker for the France soccer match, first time I was there since Mayo were last in the All-Ireland final.
We were average, during the game I kept thinking about the GAA guys in Kerry and Tyrone and Cork who are fantastic athletes, and I was wondering if things were different, some of these guys might have been playing against France.
I was thinking what a pity our country plays sports which nobody outside Ireland cares about which deprives us of being good at other sports internationally. Back in the 1800s when organised team sport began, what a pity we opted to play sports which are not played elsewhere. I'm gutted we are unlikely to make our 4th world cup.

me_right_one

I feel that there's a horrible anti-GAA vibe out there at the moment. You hear people on tele and radio saying the GAA are "An embarrasment". How? Does anyone else get that vibe?

LeoB

me_right_one wrote: »

I feel that there's a horrible anti-GAA vibe out there at the moment. You hear people on tele and radio saying the GAA are "An embarrasment". How? Does anyone else get that vibe?

Yeah I hear a lot of this s**t and I love it. We in the G.A.A should not be apologitic for our great Association. Look at what we have in place all around the country, all the little villages with supberb pitchs and facilities. I just point to Croke Park, Semple Stadium etc and ask the soccer lads to name their state of the art facilities at LOI grounds. Tha Anti- G.A.A sentiment out there at the moment is called begrudgery.

That said I do feel sometimes we put ourselves under the microscope to much and bow to the thicks on T.V. who critize the G.A.A.

Do away with any sport and another sport should benefit. Cricket is big in my area and if their was no cricket club the local G.A.A would pick up about 8 or 9 really good players.

Agree with Browney7. The I.R.F.U have destroyed club Rugby. 10 years ago there were massive crowds at A.I.L games and good crack but these are now a disaster. There are more going to Senior Schools games.

PhosphoricAcid

Personally,I think that we are just not a natural footballing country.Yoann Gorcuff is not one of France's best players, but the ball was stuck to his feet on Saturday night,sublime ball control. We have bruisers like Richy Dunne,Andrews,Doyle etc. Andy Reid,Stephen Ireland and Robbie Keane are the only technically gifted players that Ireland have.And only 2 are in the bloomin' squad!.
It could also be said we always have good goalkeepers because of the popularity of Gaelic Football, e.g.Packie Bonner&Shay Given..

irishultra

Louisc wrote: »

I was at the Croker for the France soccer match, first time I was there since Mayo were last in the All-Ireland final.
We were average, during the game I kept thinking about the GAA guys in Kerry and Tyrone and Cork who are fantastic athletes, and I was wondering if things were different, some of these guys might have been playing against France.
I was thinking what a pity our country plays sports which nobody outside Ireland cares about which deprives us of being good at other sports internationally. Back in the 1800s when organised team sport began, what a pity we opted to play sports which are not played elsewhere. I'm gutted we are unlikely to make our 4th world cup.

???? all irish soccer plays whether playing here or abroad look in better shape imo than gaa players. a lot of gaa players don't look athletic.

i support the loi so im not having a go at it and i love gaa football as well but its easy to say kerry and cork look deadly when there is nothing to compare it to outside of ireland. the loi has the problem that people compare it to foreign leagues, gaa doesnt have this problem.

An Citeog

PhosphoricAcid wrote: »

Personally,I think that we are just not a natural footballing country.Yoann Gorcuff is not one of France's best players, but the ball was stuck to his feet on Saturday night,sublime ball control.

Apart from Benzema, Gourcuff is the most promising young(ish) player that France have and will be a mainstay of the team for years to come.

PhosphoricAcid wrote:

We have bruisers like Richy Dunne,Andrews,Doyle etc. Andy Reid,Stephen Ireland and Robbie Keane are the only technically gifted players that Ireland have.And only 2 are in the bloomin' squad!.
It could also be said we always have good goalkeepers because of the popularity of Gaelic Football, e.g.Packie Bonner&Shay Given..

LOL

SomeFool

rossie1977 wrote: »

remove gaa and any other sports from this country and you still only have 4 million people, thats less than half of what lives in london or paris

But it is similar to New Zealand. It's interesting to compare our olympic records actually, given that rugby there enjoys a sililar dominance to gaa here. While I'm sure we'd have more without gaa, I'd look at the other sporting bodies and ask why they cannot attract, develop or keep athletes involved in their soprt. They have also qualified for the soccer world cup.

New Zealands olympic medals:

Sport Gold Silver Bronze Total
Athletics 9 1 9 19
Sailing 7 4 5 16
Rowing 6 2 8 16
Canoeing 5 2 1 8
Equestrian 3 2 4 9
Swimming 2 1 3 6
Cycling 1 1 2 4
Boxing 1 1 1 3
Triathlon 1 1 1 3
Field hockey 1 0 0 1
Alpine skiing 0 1 0 1
Shooting 0 0 1 1
Total 36 16 35 87

Irelands olympic medals:

Sport Gold Silver Bronze Total
Athletics 4 2 0 6
Swimming 3 0 1 4
Boxing 1 4 7 12
Sailing 0 1 0 1
Total 8 7 8 23

Fighting Irish

Yes

Grudaire

SomeFool wrote: »

New Zealands olympic medals:

Sport Gold Silver Bronze Total
Athletics 9 1 9 19
Sailing 7 4 5 16
Rowing 6 2 8 16
Canoeing 5 2 1 8
Equestrian 3 2 4 9
Swimming 2 1 3 6
Cycling 1 1 2 4
Boxing 1 1 1 3
Triathlon 1 1 1 3
Field hockey 1 0 0 1
Alpine skiing 0 1 0 1
Shooting 0 0 1 1
Total 36 16 35 87

Irelands olympic medals:

Sport Gold Silver Bronze Total
Athletics 4 2 0 6
Swimming 3 0 1 4
Boxing 1 4 7 12
Sailing 0 1 0 1
Total 8 7 8 23

Does that acoount for when we had the Tailteann games, and the GAA was directly in competition with the Athletics association of the time (Irish Amateur Athletic Association) because I don't think that players in the GAA could compete olympically.

Might even it out a little tiny bit!

Also Ireland has Rugby as well as the GAA hampering athletics!

Louisc

that's amazing to see New Zealand with nearly 4 times as many Olympic medals as us, considering they are have a similar Caucasian west European genetic lineage as us with a similar population (although they do have a few very fit looking Indigenous people).

The climate is a big factor, it's easier to have a strong sporting culture when outdoor life is pleasant and sunny most of the time.

In Ireland outdoor sport is a bit difficult from November to April because its wet and not so warm. Our climate is ok for sport but not as good as NZ.
Australia and NZ get by far the highest number of Olympic medals per Capita in the world

Louisc

I can think about one good thing about the GAA, it means we can have sporting heros who don't have to prove themselves internationally.

If you are the third best centre half forward in Leinster, you'll be hailed and respected in the media and by fans.

But if you are the third best soccer midfielder in Leinster, you'll probably be playing for Aldershot town in League 2 in England (if you are lucky) and you definitely wont be a household name anywhere.

rossie1977

SomeFool wrote: »

But it is similar to New Zealand. It's interesting to compare our olympic records actually, given that rugby there enjoys a sililar dominance to gaa here. While I'm sure we'd have more without gaa, I'd look at the other sporting bodies and ask why they cannot attract, develop or keep athletes involved in their soprt. They have also qualified for the soccer world cup.

per capita new zealand have a good olympic record no doubt, irelands isn't all that bad and even better when you consider we don't compete at the winter olympics unlike NZ and numerous others http://users.skynet.be/hermandw/olymp/reloly.html

regarding soccer yes NZ have qualified but come on now, you ain't comparing apples with apples, its not really that hard to qualify when you opponents are new caledonia, fuji, Vanuatu , if NZ were in europe they would finish near the bottom of any qualifying group, spain tore them apart playing in 3rd gear, ireland to qualify for this world cup have had the world cup champions in their group and got the other world cup finalist in a playoff, bit more difficult than bahrain in fairness

Pride Fighter

Louisc wrote: »

that's amazing to see New Zealand with nearly 4 times as many Olympic medals as us, considering they are have a similar Caucasian west European genetic lineage as us with a similar population (although they do have a few very fit looking Indigenous people).

The climate is a big factor, it's easier to have a strong sporting culture when outdoor life is pleasant and sunny most of the time.

In Ireland outdoor sport is a bit difficult from November to April because its wet and not so warm. Our climate is ok for sport but not as good as NZ.
Australia and NZ get by far the highest number of Olympic medals per Capita in the world

NZ is not Australia. NZ is similar in climate to here, in fact its probably worse there.

Agus

Louisc wrote: »

If you are the third best centre half forward in Leinster, you'll be hailed and respected in the media and by fans.

But if you are the third best soccer midfielder in Leinster, you'll probably be playing for Aldershot town in League 2 in England (if you are lucky) and you definitely wont be a household name anywhere.

Major exaggeratiion there I think. Leinsters hird best soccer midfielder would be someone like maybe Keith Andrews behind a top two of Damien Duff and Andy Reid (all of them born in Dublin). Not a national icon I suppose but well above the level you're suggesting there!

SomeFool

rossie1977 wrote: »

per capita new zealand have a good olympic record no doubt, irelands isn't all that bad and even better when you consider we don't compete at the winter olympics unlike NZ and numerous others http://users.skynet.be/hermandw/olymp/reloly.html

I think 23 medals across 4 sports is quite poor actually. Particularly if you consider the scandal that surrounds the 4 swimming ones. Also NZ have only 1 winter games medal, and there is regular Irish participation at the winter olympics. Imo, without gaelic sports I'm sure that there would be more talent in every sport in the country, rugby and soccer being the obvious benificaries, but at an olympic level I don't think it would have transferred to success.

irishultra

no gaa doesn't stop footballers(soccer players) or rugby players from developing but narrow minded attitude does hinder league of ireland and for that i dont like gaa even tho im a passionate dublin supporter.