Do pubs/nightclubs have a duty of care

...to their customers? Last night I was standing outside a club when two bouncers threw a girl out in a heap outside.

She was completely totaled, didn't even know her own name type of way

Anyway, a couple of us sat her down, made sure she's alright, and she was getting really sick

However, isn't it really easy to swallow your tongue or choke on your vomit if you get in this state?

Question is Do pubs/nightclubs have a duty of care?
Should they look after people who go overboard with the drink?

Lump

Morally they probably should have called an ambulance, not sure if they legally have any obligation.

cruiser178

salonfire wrote: »

...to their customers? Last night I was standing outside a club when two bouncers threw a girl out in a heap outside.

She was completely totaled, didn't even know her own name type of way

Anyway, a couple of us sat her down, made sure she's alright, and she was getting really sick

However, isn't it really easy to swallow your tongue or choke on your vomit if you get in this state?

Question is Do pubs/nightclubs have a duty of care?
Should they look after people who go overboard with the drink?

More importantly was she hot.

dny123456

Swallowing your tongue would be fairly tricky even when sober!

tallaght01

Lump wrote: »

Morally they probably should have called an ambulance, not sure if they legally have any obligation.

I think they're obliged not to sell you enough booze to get that totalled.

El Weirdo

Do people not have a duty of care to themselves any more? Why should the state she was in be anyone's responsibility but her own?

El Weirdo

El Weirdo wrote: »

Do people not have a duty of care to themselves any more? Why should the state she was in be anyone's responsibility but her own?

In case she swallows her tongue. We've all been in that state at some point..

!_Brian_!

El Weirdo wrote: »

Do people not have a duty of care to themselves any more? Why should the state she was in be anyone's responsibility but her own?

+1.

julien05

alcohol its powwerful. theres a thin line for some ppl btwn tipsy and locked. especially smaller framed ppl. it takes some time to realise its not for u, whichh is tough in ireland eu where ppl enjoy drink/socialising . so eh ring a taxi r sumthin

stovelid

It's wrong to just throw somebody out but they probably have to deal with hundreds of such cases while trying to keep order inside.

julien05

sounds like a battleground alrite with only one bouncer.

davyjose

salonfire wrote: »

...to their customers? Last night I was standing outside a club when two bouncers threw a girl out in a heap outside.

They were probably just trying to bounce-her

<gets coat>

omahaid

julien05 wrote: »

alcohol its powwerful. theres a thin line for some ppl btwn tipsy and locked. especially smaller framed ppl. it takes some time to realise its not for u, whichh is tough in ireland eu where ppl enjoy drink/socialising . so eh ring a taxi r sumthin

Are you demonstrating how powerful it is this minute?

DigiGal

cruiser178 wrote: »

More importantly was she hot.

In to passed out girls...


wouldn't be too quick to admit that on the net

DigiGal

El Weirdo wrote: »

Do people not have a duty of care to themselves any more? Why should the state she was in be anyone's responsibility but her own?

Wow.....ever hear of empathy


Perfect are we?
Never got into a state yourself...how would you feel if your daughter or sister or friend was in that state and some just said "ah shes her own responsability" and then she gets raped or dies of alcohol poisoning or ends up getting run over or mugged or beaten up or chokes on her own vomit....

Well aren't you the nice guy

davyjose

DigiGal wrote: »

In to passed out girls...


wouldn't be too quick to admit that on the net

I would have thought that was the best -- possibly the only -- place to admit it?

DigiGal

davyjose wrote: »

I would have thought that was the best -- possibly the only -- place to admit it?

I suppose your right.....


Best not to admit it all tho, less chance of getting caught

El Weirdo

DigiGal wrote: »

Wow.....ever hear of empathy


Perfect are we?
Never got into a state yourself...how would you feel if your daughter or sister or friend was in that state and some just said "ah shes her own responsability" and then she gets raped or dies of alcohol poisoning or ends up getting run over or mugged or beaten up or chokes on her own vomit....

Well aren't you the nice guy

Of course I've gotten into a state. But it was me that got me there. I've never blamed someone else for the states I've been in and never felt that I was someone else's responsibility.

DigiGal

El Weirdo wrote: »

Of course I've gotten into a state. But it was me that got me there. I've never blamed someone else for the states I've been in and never felt that I was someone else's responsibility.

But would you really like someone to just leave you on the street outside some nightclub...

honestly


of course its her fault for getting into a state but I could never just leave someone there...especially if it was in my nightclub

TanG411

DigiGal wrote: »

But would you really like someone to just leave you on the street outside some nightclub...

honestly


of course its her fault for getting into a state but I could never just leave someone there...especially if it was in my nightclub

That's hard to say though. If you were running a nightclub every night and you see people getting wasted and finding it difficult to stand, then you'd probably get sick of it and just tell your bouncer to chuck them out.

The least the nightclub could have done is to ring a taxi.

Pherekydes

Deleted User wrote: »

In case she swallows her tongue. We've all been in that state at some point..

Even teetotalers and light drinkers? :rolleyes:

Sounds like Brendan McWilliams.

No we ALL haven't done anything.

DigiGal

Larkin91 wrote: »

That's hard to say though. If you were running a nightclub every night and you see people getting wasted and finding it difficult to stand, then you'd probably get sick of it and just tell your bouncer to chuck them out.

The least the nightclub could have done is to ring a taxi.

I worked in a nightclub for a good while I've seen people in bits but I've always had the bar manager ring them a taxi and got em a glass of water, they had to wait outside though incase of vomit.

As far as I kow they just want to get them outside as quick as possible in most places though because then they aren't a liability, its a legal thing

Fair enough a bloke who is locked but a girl could be raped or worse.

number10a

El Weirdo wrote: »

Do people not have a duty of care to themselves any more? Why should the state she was in be anyone's responsibility but her own?

+1

We've all done it. But it was always our own fault. I'm the first to put my hands up to it. No one ever forced me up through the crowd to the counter to ask for that triple vodka and three shots of Goldschlager and a tequila for good measure. I'm not throwing stones at anyone for going out and making a mess of themselves (it'd be a bit hypocritical), but ultimately it's their own fault and the club/pub/State should not have to nanny people to make sure that they're going to get home safely if they're so píssed they can't even remember what city they're in. We're just lucky to live in a country where people still aren't afraid to see after a stranger who needs help. Well done salonfire for what you did. It's really admirable.

That said though, did this girl not go out with friends? I'm guessing she didn't head out on her own for the night. Where were they? Why weren't they looking after her?

Pherekydes

Pherekydes wrote: »

Even teetotalers and light drinkers? :rolleyes:

Sounds like Brendan McWilliams.

No we ALL haven't done anything.

Grand, don't take it personally.
It's a Sunday morning, relax.

drkpower

DigiGal wrote: »

of course its her fault for getting into a state but I could never just leave someone there...especially if it was in my nightclub

So when you pass drunk homeless people on the streets do you call an ambulance/comfort them/bring them home? Or is it just girls who get hammered and fall out of nightclubs?

El Weirdo

DigiGal wrote: »

I worked in a nightclub for a good while I've seen people in bits but I've always had the bar manager ring them a taxi and got em a glass of water, they had to wait outside though incase of vomit.

As far as I kow they just want to get them outside as quick as possible in most places though because then they aren't a liability, its a legal thing

Fair enough a bloke who is locked but a girl could be raped or worse.

Yeah, because men can't be raped or murdered.

Fair enough, it would have been the decent thing to call the girl a taxi or something but this legal duty of care thing is what bothers me. Why should someone else be held accountable for the state YOU get yourself in.

Its that attitude that means I can't get a few cans of beer at 10.45pm and has the government telling me that I have to go home at 12.30.

c - 13

DigiGal wrote: »

... Fair enough a bloke who is locked but a girl could be raped or worse.

Yep because we all know a bloke could never get mugged, raped or the ****e kicked out of him for no reason other than he was an easy target :rolleyes:

The club has no responsibility, as already stated its the persons own responsibility if they get themselves to that state.

DigiGal

drkpower wrote: »

So when you pass drunk homeless people on the streets do you call an ambulance/comfort them/bring them home? Or is it just girls who get hammered and fall out of nightclubs?

actually yeah i do

number10a

DigiGal wrote: »

actually yeah i do

it must take you hours to walk down o'connell street so.

c - 13

c - 13 wrote: »

The club has no responsibility, as already stated its the persons own responsibility if they get themselves to that state.

Does the same apply to drug dealers?

By your logic, you should have no problem with a heroin dealer?

sam34

drkpower wrote: »

So when you pass drunk homeless people on the streets do you call an ambulance/comfort them/bring them home? Or is it just girls who get hammered and fall out of nightclubs?

DigiGal wrote: »

actually yeah i do

which do you do? cause saying "i do" to all 3 doesnt really make sense

Schism

It's a case of I don't care where you go but you can't stay here isn't it?

As long as they're out of the pub, any obligation then is moral.

DigiGal

c - 13 wrote: »

Yep because we all know a bloke could never get mugged, raped or the ****e kicked out of him for no reason other than he was an easy target :rolleyes:

The club has no responsibility, as already stated its the persons own responsibility if they get themselves to that state.

Never said that

c - 13

Deleted User wrote: »

Does the same apply to drug dealers?

By your logic, you should have no problem with a heroin dealer?

I knew I should have expanded on that.

What I meant was a bar is providing an environment where a person can purchase a product which will have an adverse effect on them - it should be the persons responsibility to decide/know when they have had enough.

Now, granted a lot of clubs don't refuse service to an already intoxicated person and that is something that should be looked at.

I dont think your drug dealer comparison is very extreme to be compared like for like with that. Especially since drugs are supposed to be a controlled substance and not something anyone over a certain age can readily obtain.

It would be more like - "Is Cadburys responsible for helping fat people lose weight" since the people got fat off their product

El Weirdo

Deleted User wrote: »

Does the same apply to drug dealers?

By your logic, you should have no problem with a heroin dealer?

He'd have to be a pretty crap heroin dealer if he was trying to sell his stuff in a nightclub.;)

drkpower

c - 13 wrote: »

The club has no responsibility, as already stated its the persons own responsibility if they get themselves to that state.

That's not entirely true.
Generallly they have no duty, but if it was clear that a patron was an obvious danger to themselves, there could be a positive duty to, for instance, call an ambulance.

Its a matter of degree of course, and it would be very rare where the nightclub legally had to do something, but its not beyond the bounds of possibility.

drkpower

DigiGal wrote: »

actually yeah i do

Sorry, your answer wasnt entirely clear - you might clarify what specifically you do when you pass drunk homeless people:
1. call an ambulance
2. comfort them
3. bring them home
4. other

Thanks.

c - 13

DigiGal wrote: »

Never said that

You said fair enough to do it to one sex but not to the other because they could "get raped or worse" ?

Mossy Monk

DigiGal wrote: »

Wow.....ever hear of empathy


Perfect are we?
Never got into a state yourself...how would you feel if your daughter or sister or friend was in that state and some just said "ah shes her own responsability" and then she gets raped or dies of alcohol poisoning or ends up getting run over or mugged or beaten up or chokes on her own vomit....

Well aren't you the nice guy

What if she was abducted by aliens, or what if she ascended into heaven.

c - 13

c - 13 wrote: »

I knew I should have expanded on that.

What I meant was a bar is providing an environment where a person can purchase a product which will have an adverse effect on them - it should be the persons responsibility to decide/know when they have had enough.

Now, granted a lot of clubs don't refuse service to an already intoxicated person and that is something that should be looked at.

I dont think your drug dealer comparison is very extreme to be compared like for like with that. Especially since drugs are supposed to be a controlled substance and not something anyone over a certain age can readily obtain.

It would be more like - "Is Cadburys responsible for helping fat people lose weight" since the people got fat off their product

I considered trying to reply to this but I just cant argue with Garth Marenghi.

Captain Havoc

There is a law there about it being illegal to serve someone who is drunk, the problem is defining it. In hotels if someone gets locked in the hotel bar and then dies in the hotel room as a result of being locked, the hotel is responsible.

It's two way thing IMO, barmen aren't babsitters but at the same time I think some of them need to grow a pair and say no, you've had enough. A lot of them want to avoid confrontation but as I said, they're aren't there to babysit either.

I was out last night with my mates and was supping away on a few bottles and a couple of my mates went OTT, a few of us just stuck together to stay away from them. Unfortunately I know I get into states also. The club I was in last night was a disgrace, Morrisons in Kilkenny, it is completely over-crowded every week to a point I would consider dangerous, had one there and mosied on down to a "late bar".

I think all this crumpiness is a mixture of age and being in work on Sunday.

The_Kew_Tour

Saw a girl been thrown out of Hogans last night in George Street she seemd buttled as hell and giving bouncer hassle.

Even the girls next us I could hear them say that bouncer did right thing. It does not matter if man or woman if you cant control your drink its time for you to leave basically.

Lia_lia

I've worked in a few bars. We are just not allowed serve someone if they are absolutely wrecked. And if someone comes in really really drunk we gotta kick them out.

Bar staff usually don't have time to take care of customers.

The effects of alcohol can hit ya like a ton of bricks tho...you could be grand going up to the bar and do rounds of vodkas, then WHAM! 20 mins later your being dragged out the door so maybe she wasn't that drunk getting served.


The girl had friends inside the club alright, but none of them would answer their phones. Grrr!

Plus the place was packed so I guess they got split up

Anyway I thought it was harsh of the bouncers to chuck her out and leave her lying in a heap on the ground...but they probably see it happen dozens of times every weekend and are immune to it.

And no, she wasn't looking particularly hot puking up the chinese she got earlier!

You don't actually swallow your tongue...if your lying back, the tongue can go limp and flacid and block your airway which can happen if nobody's at the controls!

~nop~

Legally I believe the issue is that if the bouncer does start taking care of her they have then assumed a duty of care and as such can become liable should she choke on her own vomit, tongue etc. afterwards, whereas if they do nothing they are not taking responsibility and therefore cannot be found liable. The issue of a barman selling someone who is already locked more drink is another one, but again it can often be very hard to tell, especially in packed pubs/clubs, and most of the duty does lie on the person who is consuming the alcohol to mind themselves and not let themselves get into a mess in the first place. We live in a country where alcohol is legal and yet if the state were to make publicans responsible for every harm that results from the product they sell the pubs wouldn't be able to function in the first place.

shampoosuicide

El Weirdo wrote: »

Do people not have a duty of care to themselves any more? Why should the state she was in be anyone's responsibility but her own?

knew there'd be a reply like that. :rolleyes:

El Weirdo

Well aren't you quite the psychic?

sam34

salonfire wrote: »

The effects of alcohol can hit ya like a ton of bricks tho...you could be grand going up to the bar and do rounds of vodkas, then WHAM! 20 mins later your being dragged out the door so maybe she wasn't that drunk getting served.

maybe peopel should take responsibility for themselves and not do rounds of vodkas and expect to be fine afterwards.

i'm no puritannical angel, i like to drink, and at times i drink more than is good for me, but in this case i think the fault is entirely with the girl for drinking herself into oblivion.

shampoosuicide

sam34 wrote: »

maybe peopel should take responsibility for themselves and not do rounds of vodkas and expect to be fine afterwards.

i'm no puritannical angel, i like to drink, and at times i drink more than is good for me, but in this case i think the fault is entirely with the girl for drinking herself into oblivion.

yeah, definitely. pity she didn't die

itsallaboutheL

DigiGal wrote: »

Fair enough a bloke who is locked but a girl could be raped or worse.

Wow..

TPD

shampoosuicide wrote: »

yeah, definitely. pity she didn't die

Whos fault is it for the girl getting hammered then?