HELP - Problem tenants

its_me10

Hi
I got word today that a brothel may be being run from my apartment.
I have no proof but I was not completely shocked to hear this as I always had doubts about what they are doing. How should I handle this?
Any advice appreciated.

EKRIUQ

Are they paying the rent? if they are then maybe you could look at the lease and see where there breaking it. If it's a criminal matter then let the proper authorities look after that.

I've come across this problem before, don't worry it won't last long they'll move along soon.

EKRIUQ

O, yes and don't forget to put up a security camera outside the property for security

Redpunto

from YOUR apartment???

its_me10

Well i don't live there. They are paying rent on time everymonth into the bank. No problems there. But what should I do? I have no definite proof but thats good enough for me.

Should i approach them and tell them what i know? Or should I try get guards involved.. would it be better to get them out without telling them what i know?

How has anyone else dealt with this? The block is managed and vid cam at reception. not at door of apt.

Thanks for the help. I am sick with worry.

mark renton

where and how much?

its_me10

Thanks for that John!!

Any helpful advice?

The_Conductor

Behave folk.
Offer relevant, pertinent advice to the OP- or you will be banned from this forum- without warning.

mark renton

sorry - sometimes i just cant help myself

ok you got 3 options

1. ring old bill - get cc tv evidence and confront them with it
2. ask for share of profits and some action
3. get a few of the lads around to kick them out

dny123456

This might be a silly question... I dont mean it to be... but why would you care? They're paying the rent, are you getting complaints from neighbors?

mark renton

dny123456 wrote: »

This might be a silly question... I dont mean it to be... but why would you care? They're paying the rent, are you getting complaints from neighbors?

very good point

the_syco

Firstly, don't ask them. If they are a couple of swingers, cool, but if they're criminals shipping human traffic to your apartment to get them f**ked, they may not take too kindly to you coming over and threatening them. Remember: if they're already breaking the law, breaking a few more to ensure you toe the line may not bother them.

If worried about your apartment being used as a brothel, talk to the Gardai about it.

ynotdu

Spot on the syco!

mark renton

ynotdu wrote: »

Spot on the syco!

rubbish - theres a difference between prostitution and GBH - about 3 or 4 years

bottom line if op doesnt want confrontation then obtain proof - then change the locks when nobody is home

its_me10

Of course I would care. Firstly its illegal. Secondly its not an activity I would want associated with me or my property. Thirdly, this activity can destroy families and relationships.... but thats another story.

But the problem is I have no actual proof.

The block has about 100 apartments and in a mostly owner occupied quiet residential S Dublin area. Stangers coming and going to the apartment are drawing attention from the neighbours. The security camera is on the reception area only not on the corridors but the neighbours tell me there are different men coming and going at night.

Has anyone actually dealt with this and how did you go about it? Did the management company help? Will involving the gardai delay the whole process? They have a lease.

amdublin

its_me10 wrote: »

I have no definite proof but thats good enough for me.

You have no proof, they are paying the rent, but you want rid of them??

JackieT

I had some escorts as neighbours earlier on, and in all honesty they were grand. There was a bit of a "yuck" factor at first, but I never heard any noise nor did i have any problems with them or with their clients.

If you're eager to get them out of there,, I guess you can just ring the guards and ask them to investigate. I'm open to correction on this, but if it's just a couple of girls working as independent escorts, they are not actually breaking any laws.

I'd defo replace the mattresses when they move out though.

the_syco

john47832 wrote: »

bottom line if op doesnt want confrontation then obtain proof - then change the locks when nobody is home

And sued €15,000+ for illegal eviction. Great idea. NOT.

mark renton

the_syco wrote: »

And sued €15,000+ for illegal eviction. Great idea. NOT.

you seemed to miss the "obtain proof" part

Outkast_IRE

See if you can find the girls online on one of the irish escort sites and if you can inform gardai , make an appointment yourself and if they tell you come to the address your renting to them then you have them . Simple as

mark renton

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

See if you can find the girls online on one of the irish escort sites and if you can inform gardai , make an appointment yourself and if they tell you come to your address then you have them . Simple as

very good brains - except you missed one little important detail - if he gets them to go to his home then thats not proof they are doing it in the rented accomodation

Outkast_IRE

john47832 wrote: »

very good brains - except you missed one little important detail - if he gets them to go to his home then thats not proof they are doing it in the rented accomodation

Sorry i phrased that wrong apologies , i want the op to find them on a escort site and if they are escorts they probably offer a location for the deed to take place ( the ops place hes renting ) so he asks them for details of where .

shane b

Hi
Had a similiar problem last year with a house I rented out. went to the guards and was told that they could do very little, unless girls working were not EU citzens with no passports so then the guards could hold them that was it. Three different guards asked me if I knew my rights as a landlord and told me that I could be in trouble if I tried to barge in without giving the tenants notice!! Left very frustrated
In the end rang the girl I rented the house to and said i wanted them out and they were gone within an hour. during the conversation she just said she had alot of male friends and needed time to get her "stuff" together.
If you go to the guards I hope you have better luck than I had.

moonlightreader

Is using the apartment as a business premises banned by the managment company house rules or the lease you had the tenant sign. I presume you could leaglly evict them for having "business meetings" there, if it's against the rules.

The_Conductor

moonlightreader wrote: »

Is using the apartment as a business premises banned by the managment company house rules or the lease you had the tenant sign. I presume you could leaglly evict them for having "business meetings" there, if it's against the rules.

Its a breach of the lease- and would still entail following an eviction process.

chillin_penguin

If there paying rent and other then strange men coming and going in the middle of the night being the only complaint, what is the problem??

I can understand your concern but at the end of the day its not any of your business what goes on in there. just because some neighbour noticed it so what for all you know it could be some friends comming to hang out i mean who goes to the pub any more?

I think you should forget what you heard you have no proof what's so ever so its all just rumor. and if what is going on in there is what you think, do you really think that they will stop because you said so?

If your really unhappy give them there notice and wait till then. And who knows you may get a set of drug dealers who leave needles everywhere next time and dont pay the rent!!!

deman

john47832 wrote: »

very good brains - except you missed one little important detail - if he gets them to go to his home then thats not proof they are doing it in the rented accomodation

His post wasn't so difficult to understand.

My brother-in-law had the same problem a couple of years ago but he was lucky because the tenant was always behind on her rent and that was the reason he evicted her in the end. She left without taking her stuff and he cleared all the stuff out, whips and other toys, and chucked them all in the bin.

BTW, don't listen to john47832's advice. Don't be rash.

dny123456

its_me10 wrote: »

Of course I would care. Firstly its illegal.

May or may not be. In any event not your position to decide, that's what we have the gardai for.

its_me10 wrote: »

Secondly its not an activity I would want associated with me or my property.

You are renting it out. As long as they are paying the rent it's their apartment, not yours. Its none of your business what someone gets up to in their apartment

its_me10 wrote: »

Thirdly, this activity can destroy families and relationships.... but thats another story.

A tad judgmental. There's an awful lot worse going on in this world that you could get exercised about.

its_me10 wrote: »

But the problem is I have no actual proof.

I think you'd be better off not looking for proof. Just leave them alone, they have enough problems on their plate.

Lab_Mouse

its_me10 wrote: »

Stangers coming and going to the apartment

They could just be sluts?

Like said above you have no proof except what the neighbours THINK.People always think the worse of other people.

You should dress up as a plant and sit in the corridor and see if anyone is coming or going to the apartment.If its in half hour slots its defo a knocking shop.Increase the rent

Dravokivich

er... you know you are within your rights to drop by every now and then to checkout the whole apartment once you give them at least 7 days notification beforehand.... (just don't look through personal stuff....)

sure they'd probably have a quick tidy up... but if anything seems odd... you'll need to see for yourself first....


- Drav!

its_me10

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

I made unofficial enquiries with the Gardai. They would need to do a stakeout. And then go to court to get a warrant to enter the apartment. They were not able to offer any advice on how I should approach the situation.

The lease says that it can be terminated with one month's notice on either side. So maybe that is the route I should take.

I hear what people are saying about why should I be worried or care and that rumours from neighbours are just that. rumours. But I am really uncomfortable with the possibility of this going on there.

I'd be really interested to hear from anyone who had the conversation with tenants about what might be going on there? Did people just come straight out with it and ask them to leave?

Bob Z

OP if you think think it's a brothel you should try to kick them out before the police get involved. If the place is raided of might make the newspaper and you might find it hard to rent again especially if you live in a small town

But is it possible the tenants are alcoholics? The people who are coming and going might be partying. I know a house like that that's always full of people.

chillin_penguin

Also are they college students? Im guessing not but if they are then thats just a party house lol

BarneyMagee

I'm not sure about asking them what they are doing?

Someone has rented this property from you and they are paying their rent on time. They do have rights to their own privacy.

If you are concerned about your neighbours you could speak to them and say you talked to the gardai and that they are aware of the matter but that without proof they can't do anything. At least they'lll know you're a concerned landlord.

At the end of the day if my landlord started asking me what am I doing every day, who I am having over etc I'd tell him take a hike.

its_me10

Bob Z wrote: »

OP if you think think it's a brothel you should try to kick them out before the police get involved. If the place is raided of might make the newspaper and you might find it hard to rent again especially if you live in a small town

But is it possible the tenants are alcoholics? The people who are coming and going might be partying. I know a house like that that's always full of people.

I think I will try getting them to leave without having to tackle the situation. It might be smoother than dealing with the activity.

Nope, not likely that they are alcholics, students or just friends calling.

bSlick

dny123456 wrote: »

You are renting it out. As long as they are paying the rent it's their apartment, not yours. Its none of your business what someone gets up to in their apartment

Of course it's his business, its his apartment. If there was a child sex ring or a drug operation running out of the apartment would you be telling him its none of his business? For that matter, if you owned an apartment and people were engaging in these activities would you not have a problem with it? Because I dont know any landlords that would be happy with this situation.

A tad judgmental. There's an awful lot worse going on in this world that you could get exercised about.

Well it could certainly have an impact on the op's family and relationships if word got out that out that an apartment of his was being used as a brothel. Who would want to be associated with that activity? Or would want to have to go around denying to people he had anything to do with it? Mud sticks.

I think you'd be better off not looking for proof. Just leave them alone, they have enough problems on their plate.

F**k that. This is a problem for the op, as it would be for 99% of landlords out there. He is 100% correct to want these tenants out.

BettePorter

op i work for a management company which had the same problem in one of the the units. the apt concerned was actually blatantly a few doors away from the office. first thing you need to do is satisfy yourself that is a brothel, not just a couple of girls who like to entertain often !;) if it is the girls will change (in our case on a weekly forthnightly basis) if you call and they're seems to be different girls there randomly you're prob on the mark. also if you make excuses to visit and the apartment looks uninhabited. in our case the 'tenant' would call into the office to report the odd problem with plumbing or whatever and when our plumbers would call, (oddly enough all 3 of the them were anxious to offer ) they would note that the place was sparce, no personal items or signs that anyone lived there full time. after a few false starts with contacting the landlord (who used and agency (useless) and never visited, he eventually just rang his contact and asked them outright, they of course denied it but he gave them notice and they had no problem with that. why would they. they simply moved to a unit just down the street and the same happened again. they work form numbers generally, not addresses so its not a huge upheaval. if you're satisfied in yourself whats going on, put it to them and give them notice, if your right they will more than likely jsut move on no hassle.

and just on an additional note, don't think you have to wait til late at night to watch comings and goings from the house. i naively thought it was the kinda thing that went on after hours but literally from 11am there was a steady stream of cars parked outside, at times they would wait for others to leave. also niavely i thought it was a certain 'type' that visited such places but it was everything from old men who you'd imagine wouldn't be able to guys i ppl carriers with kids seats in the back. workmen in vans, who i used think some poor fecker was cursing cause he was meant to be elsewhere an hour ago. eyes opened for me i can tell you.

the_syco

john47832 wrote: »

you seemed to miss the "obtain proof" part

Proof, or no proof, if they did not go through the courts to evict them, and changed the locks, it's still an illegal eveiction.

its_me10

Hi Bette
I think from what you have said that you have confirmed my suspicions. They seemed to have quite a few random friends staying over. I read your post and thinking about what you have put in it.. I am more convinved than ever that there is something going on. I have made an appt to go to see the tenants. Strangely only one is available but she has pal staying over for a week or two.
The apartment is kept well, but no person photos or anything like that.
Seems to be regular callers... from what neighbours have said.
Will report back when i call in to see them.

Thanks for the info... its good to hear from someone who has experience about this..

its_me10

The syco....
I think given the delicate circumstances that i will go the legal route... but it won't stop me changin the locks when they do leave.

Don't want to get involved in argy bargy with them. :eek:

Hope this post helps others in this situation....

PCPhoto

if you were interested - why not set up a "friend" (fellow boardsie) .... to confirm your suspicions.

after you actually know whats going on then you can approach them and tell them that you've heard rumours (they will more than likely want to move on - as if you have heard rumours then it means that the Gardai may have also been told and the risk of getting caught is increasing)

_michelle_

you should go to the gardai with all the information you have & im sure they will be more than willing to help you sort any problem.