Why are we so angry???

Darragh29

I'm just going to throw this out there to see what other folks think of this view that I have....

Lately we are all furious, private sector is furious with the public sector, the public sector is furious with the private sector and the government, everyone is furious with everyone to be honest...

Just back in the Celtic Tiger, we noticed that people were more hostile and angry, and all it look was a small mistake or a chance turn of events to suffer the wrath of someone at the end of the phone or in person, the anger and fury was always there just below the surface, all it look was a small event to stratch the surface and out came the fury and the venom.

I'm sure we've all had the customer who rages furiously at you on the phone or in person over what in reality was probably a relatively minor issue at the time...

So I know I can say from my own experience that in the boom times, people were very angry and now we are in a recession and people are very angry.

My only question is, what might have a nation of people so utterly angry and full of rage??? And it isn't the recession, we were angry, agitated and cranky before we ever had to deal with a recession???

FlutterinBantam

Greed Darragh, that's what it was, pure greed.

There was plenty of dosh going around and people with no education and very little skill were coining it,driving around in big 4WDs, we've all seen them.Didn't give a bollox about anyone. Take it or leave it.

Others went mad on property, the house in Spain/Portugal/Bulgaria .

You had pimply faced dudes swanning around in Beemers in IT finance or Morketing, again would knock you down if you stepped out in front of them.

You had brikkies/plumbers/roofers /slaters with so much money they got lazy and arrogant,arm and a leg for the smallest job, most likely they would laugh in your face at a small job.

In short, we got arrogant,boorish, we didn't give a fook as we has dosh for the 5th break of the year to Barcelona to have a "blast"

We became Chavs, Darragh, and as we all know Chavs tend to be a very angry and intolerant bunch of people.

Scofflaw

We're angry because we were "fooled" - and like most people who get fooled, we know, but won't admit, that we did most of the work of taking ourselves in. At least, that's the smarter ones - the stupid ones haven't even got that far, but seem to genuinely believe they were/are entitled to something they're now losing.

I suspect that if you ask around, you'll find those who weren't fooled aren't particularly angry. Disappointed, concerned, and a little frustrated that because people have decided to blame everyone but themselves they'll do exactly the same thing again at the next opportunity, but not really angry.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Liam Byrne

In some cases, myself included, we're "angry" because we didn't buy in to the fiasco and lived within our means, and now we're being hammered by additional taxes and levies and god-knows-what in order to bail out the banks who fuelled it and the people who did get greedy.

And - to date - no-one has been jailed or held responsible (unlike America and the U.K.) and in the meantime those who presided over it get €600,000 payoffs and €700,000 unvouched expenses instead of being fired in disgrace.

If you or I did that we'd be jailed and fined and have to pay it back.

yoshytoshy

I haven't seen as much anger around lately ,more contemplation maybe.

Villain

We are a nation of begrudgers we all thought we should have what others have.

jimmmy

Darragh29 wrote: »

the public sector is furious with the private sector and the government

Why , in your experience , is the public sector furious with the private sector ? I never came across any public sector people like that, who blamed 1,800,000 people who pay money to the government ( as opposed to getting paid by the govt ). Sure there are some greedy people in the private sector, but for the highest paid public sector in the known world to be furious with the "private sector" when it was public sector people largely responsible for the mess ( the govt, the regulator, the central bank etc ). Most of the private sector worked within the law and did not cause the mess.

waffleman

We're angry now that the stable door is lying open, the horse has bolted and is probably half way to Australia still nothing substantial is being done about the mess left behind.

Our government is still pandering to their cronies and look more and more like an exclusive club of poster boys for nepotism and ineptitude with every passing day - great when times are good - frozen in a crisis.

Dannyboy83

All of what Liam Byrne said.

And the opportunity cost. We have our own island and we could have a great state, but we continue to forfeit it, usually at the benefit of those we elect.

And the inexorable 'Irishness' and 'sher, it'll do -ness'. Kind of like Saipan on a national scale.

SkepticOne

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Others went mad on property, the house in Spain/Portugal/Bulgaria .

I don't know anyone who did those things who is angry. Scared maybe.

Pedro K

Liam Byrne wrote: »

In some cases, myself included, we're "angry" because we didn't buy in to the fiasco and lived within our means, and now we're being hammered by additional taxes and levies and god-knows-what in order to bail out the banks who fuelled it and the people who did get greedy.

And - to date - no-one has been jailed or held responsible (unlike America and the U.K.) and in the meantime those who presided over it get €600,000 payoffs and €700,000 unvouched expenses instead of being fired in disgrace.

If you or I did that we'd be jailed and fined and have to pay it back.

nail on the head, at least for me anyway.

Rantan

hi I'm Rantan and I'm angry!! Very angry. Here's my reason - I'm angry because despite being what i consider to be anyway, a hard and concientious worker, never ostentatious (could never afford it)or chav or boorish like many others, I still find myself facing unemployment. I am angry with the government coz they are responsible for leading us into this situation with no get out, I am angry coz my 13 year old son faces an uncertain future, he is inteligent and bright and my parents and me and his mother have worked hard to bring him up as best we could and I am frightened for his future and that makes me angry. Anger in all situations is not a bad thing, in those outlined in previous posts yes it is, but couldn;t it also be a great motivator for change and that is not a bad thing, is it??

Scofflaw

Rantan wrote: »

hi I'm Rantan and I'm angry!! Very angry. Here's my reason - I'm angry because despite being what i consider to be anyway, a hard and concientious worker, never ostentatious (could never afford it)or chav or boorish like many others, I still find myself facing unemployment. I am angry with the government coz they are responsible for leading us into this situation with no get out, I am angry coz my 13 year old son faces an uncertain future, he is inteligent and bright and my parents and me and his mother have worked hard to bring him up as best we could and I am frightened for his future and that makes me angry. Anger in all situations is not a bad thing, in those outlined in previous posts yes it is, but couldn;t it also be a great motivator for change and that is not a bad thing, is it??

I think I'd have to say to that that despite being a hard and conscientious worker myself, I've been made redundant or faced the closure of my business more than once. Nobody owes me a living purely for being a hard and conscientious worker, although I'm more likely to make a living by being so.

As to an uncertain future - all of us face that all the time, the self-employed perhaps a little more than anyone else, and right now every child on the planet faces a seriously uncertain future. Again, nobody is owed a certain future - one can only work towards one.

Having said that, I can understand being angry if one sees that nothing is being done - but a lot more is being done about the financial crisis than is being done on far more serious long-term issues like climate change.

cordially,
Scofflaw

FlutterinBantam

SkepticOne wrote: »

I don't know anyone who did those things who is angry. Scared maybe.

A lot of them were marching today brother.:cool:

doc_17

The complete awfulness of our public representatives. or maybe just the weather?

Rantan

Scofflaw wrote: »

I think I'd have to say to that that despite being a hard and conscientious worker myself, I've been made redundant or faced the closure of my business more than once. Nobody owes me a living purely for being a hard and conscientious worker, although I'm more likely to make a living by being so.

As to an uncertain future - all of us face that all the time, the self-employed perhaps a little more than anyone else, and right now every child on the planet faces a seriously uncertain future. Again, nobody is owed a certain future - one can only work towards one.

Having said that, I can understand being angry if one sees that nothing is being done - but a lot more is being done about the financial crisis than is being done on far more serious long-term issues like climate change.

cordially,
Scofflaw

I do not think I am owed anything from anyone, how dare you(anger again)!
I am owed the wage I get for the work I do, thats all.
The right to work has been taken from me and countless others so i am angry. I think thats kind of natural. I lived through uncertainty before and saw my fathers company collapse twice, I do not think I should be pandered to or am priviliged in any way. As a society we haven;t learned any lessons from previous hard times and are now lagging behind other nations, i think thats reason enough to be a little peeved at least.

Diarmuid

Rantan wrote: »

I do not think I am owed anything from anyone, how dare you(anger again)!
I am owed the wage I get for the work I do, thats all.
The right to work has been taken from me

I don't follow? The right to work has not been taken from you. You can go out tomorrow and set up a company and sell your services/goods. That hasn't changed.

Zambia

I think what Rantan is getting and I will happily be corrected if I am wrong is.

Thoughout the Boom there was no forethought given by Irish leaders of the horrible game of Jenga they called an Economic Plan. Sure they did keep the good times rolling for an extra few years but it was at the expense of the irish middle and working class.

The right to work I presume is keeping the economy on an even keel so that Unemployment does not change from 0% to 13%(I think) in the space of 2 years.

I for one am not angry. Never was.

Rantan

Diarmuid wrote: »

I don't follow? The right to work has not been taken from you. You can go out tomorrow and set up a company and sell your services/goods. That hasn't changed.

How can you say that?? I am hopeful that eventually something will turn up, anything. However there is a very strong chance that I wont get work and possibly for some time. I would call that having the right to work taken from me, by market forces nothing else, maybe I'm wrong. And I am considering setting up a business, coz its probably the only option. But is it really as easy as going out tomorrow and having a business up and running over night?? Established, financed, registered etc etc I've never done it before, that quick - really??

contraflow

I have to lay the blame for our increased anger at coffee's door. During the boom years we switched from a nation of tea drinkers to coffee drinkers. The concentrated caffeine in coffee instils an unhealthy sense of urgency in your average Irishman, a state which we are unaccustomed to, given our long dalliance with coffee’s milder cousin tea. One of the many benefits of this recession is the plague of coffee dens which infest our towns and cities will inevitably be culled.

Aren’t we all quicker to use our car horns when the old lady in front indicates left and then turns right or bawl down the phone at 3 mobile’s impenetrable representative in Mumbai after a double espresso? Shamefully, I think the answer is yes.
Once the caffeine quotient per capita returns to pre-boom levels I predict anger will cease to rear its ugly head and the magnificent Irish will return to a state of irreverent indifference... where we belong... where we are comfortable... dare I say it in these barren times, but could we be on the cusp of a glorious uncaffeinated future where the outrages of phone and car rage are a thing of the past.
Dare to dream brother and sisters... DARE TO DREAM!!!!!

Rantan

contraflow wrote: »

I have to lay the blame for our increased anger at coffee's door. During the boom years we switched from a nation of tea drinkers to coffee drinkers. The concentrated caffeine in coffee instils an unhealthy sense of urgency in your average Irishman, a state which we are unaccustomed to, given our long dalliance with coffee’s milder cousin tea. One of the many benefits of this recession is the plague of coffee dens which infest our towns and cities will inevitably be culled.

Aren’t we all quicker to use our car horns when the old lady in front indicates left and then turns right or bawl down the phone at 3 mobile’s impenetrable representative in Mumbai after a double espresso? Shamefully, I think the answer is yes.
Once the caffeine quotient per capita returns to pre-boom levels I predict anger will cease to rear its ugly head and the magnificent Irish will return to a state of irreverent indifference... where we belong... where we are comfortable... dare I say it in these barren times, but could we be on the cusp of a glorious uncaffeinated future where the outrages of phone and car rage are a thing of the past.
Dare to dream brother and sisters... DARE TO DREAM!!!!!

I have seen the light brother!!
studying for exam in the morning at the moment, went to cupboard for coffee, jar empty, lead to stampy feet and more anger, felt hard done by making a mug of hot chocolate for the first time in a few years but lo and behold - what a joy, had forgotten the pleasure of its silky, milky loveliness!!

Diarmuid

Rantan wrote: »

I would call that having the right to work taken from me, by market forces nothing else, maybe I'm wrong.

I think the original point (and I would agree) is looking at the equation from the other side. You say that you have the "right to work". That implies that someone else has a duty to pay you something, regardless of what you do. I don't believe that is fair. I think you have the right to work, but unless someone is prepared to pay you for that work, then you cannot expect to receive recompense.

Rantan wrote: »

And I am considering setting up a business, coz its probably the only option. But is it really as easy as going out tomorrow and having a business up and running over night?? Established, financed, registered etc etc I've never done it before, that quick - really??

Setting up a business in Ireland as a legal entity is very easy to do, one of the easiest in the world. Selling your self and making money, probably not.

Rantan

Diarmuid wrote: »

I think the original point (and I would agree) is looking at the equation from the other side. You say that you have the "right to work". That implies that someone else has a duty to pay you something, regardless of what you do. I don't believe that is fair. I think you have the right to work, but unless someone is prepared to pay you for that work, then you cannot expect to receive recompense.

Setting up a business in Ireland as a legal entity is very easy to do, one of the easiest in the world. Selling your self and making money, probably not.

If I enter into a contract with someone(employer) to provide a service(my labour) they do have a duty to pay for the service provided. That's law not my opinion.

Scofflaw

Rantan wrote: »

If I enter into a contract with someone(employer) to provide a service(my labour) they do have a duty to pay for the service provided. That's law not my opinion.

Certainly that's the case. However, they don't have any duty to maintain anyone in employment if they cannot afford to do so, nor to keep their salary at the originally agreed level if they cannot afford to do so (aside from the contractual obligation if that exists). Being human, they would probably prefer to do so, but that's not the same thing as them having an obligation or you having a right.

To put it another way, while you have the right to seek work, you don't have the right to either a guaranteed job, or any particular work. Nobody does - at least not the way we have things set up, although it would undoubtedly be possible to make a job for everyone, for life, a basic right (it's been done before, and generally hasn't worked out all that well, although a large part of the failure of it can be attributed to competition from market economies).

Nor is the government contractually or legally obliged to provide everyone with a job. We expect them to do their best to make that happen, and I agree with you that they've failed to do so - as has nearly every other government. However, we voted them in, and we "voted for" the shift of the tax burden from income to property and the financial deregulation that our elected governments have overseen over the last dozen years, which was a major contributor to our high GDP growth rates, and is now a major contributor to our collapse. So when we're pointing fingers, we'll need at least one mirror.

I don't recall thinking that work was something I was entitled to when I graduated in the late Eighties - and certainly not a job in Ireland!

cordially,
Scofflaw

Alright

Liam Byrne wrote: »

In some cases, myself included, we're "angry" because we didn't buy in to the fiasco and lived within our means, and now we're being hammered by additional taxes and levies and god-knows-what in order to bail out the banks who fuelled it and the people who did get greedy.

And - to date - no-one has been jailed or held responsible (unlike America and the U.K.) and in the meantime those who presided over it get €600,000 payoffs and €700,000 unvouched expenses instead of being fired in disgrace.

If you or I did that we'd be jailed and fined and have to pay it back.

I totally agree!

I'm not sure if I'm annoyed or frustrated with the current situation? I remember a Junior Cert business teacher telling us that Countries in good times should save and put a bit aside and then in leaner times should spend their way out of a recession. I think the example used was the NY and London Undergrounds, both were built or extended during tough times.

I think the Celtic Tiger years showed us that Ireland could be great not just good or ‘grand’. We're still a, relatively, young country and we never had significant amounts of disposable money so we didn't know how to behave ourselves so instead of being prudent greed set in. Although I do think we, the people of Ireland, are still great and we will recover from this down turn but we must learn from it!

I guess I am a bit angry that the likes of Anglo was propped up & that there was/is so much waste of tax payers money. We live in a capitalist society so surely if an organisation or company has huge debts that cannot be repaid then they end up bankrupt not bailed out?

I’m stopping here in case it turns into even more or a rant

population

Diarmuid wrote: »

I don't follow? The right to work has not been taken from you. You can go out tomorrow and set up a company and sell your services/goods. That hasn't changed.

Although I am fully in support of free enterprise and feel it should be encouraged to the hilt, the fact remains that not everybody wants to, or is indeed capable of running their own business. Therefore I find that it is a real 'hands off' approach to unemployment when people say "set up a company".

population

contraflow wrote: »

I have to lay the blame for our increased anger at coffee's door. During the boom years we switched from a nation of tea drinkers to coffee drinkers. The concentrated caffeine in coffee instils an unhealthy sense of urgency in your average Irishman, a state which we are unaccustomed to, given our long dalliance with coffee’s milder cousin tea. One of the many benefits of this recession is the plague of coffee dens which infest our towns and cities will inevitably be culled.

Aren’t we all quicker to use our car horns when the old lady in front indicates left and then turns right or bawl down the phone at 3 mobile’s impenetrable representative in Mumbai after a double espresso? Shamefully, I think the answer is yes.
Once the caffeine quotient per capita returns to pre-boom levels I predict anger will cease to rear its ugly head and the magnificent Irish will return to a state of irreverent indifference... where we belong... where we are comfortable... dare I say it in these barren times, but could we be on the cusp of a glorious uncaffeinated future where the outrages of phone and car rage are a thing of the past.
Dare to dream brother and sisters... DARE TO DREAM!!!!!

But there is more caffeine in tea:D

diverdriver

I'm occasionally angry, angry at Fianna Fail, angry at the people who voted them in again and again. Angry that all the good we had was flushed down a building site portaloo. Angry for the people younger than me who had never experience high unemployment, high taxes and low expectations who now have to face it for the first time.

But mostly I'm worried, worried that the Celtic Tiger was an aberration that our temporary elevation to ordinary liberal, comfortably off, first world, western country was just that, temporary and we'll revert to a second world economy with third world attitudes.

Worried that the Ireland I grew up in with it's high unemployment, low expectations, high emigration and a rich clique running everything to suit themselves with the help of their politician friends is actually our normal state of affairs. In fact that will be the case. When we 'return to economic growth' let's have no illusions, unemployment will remain high, emigration is back to stay. The Celtic Tiger is dead and stuffed.

Both my wife and I have for the first time ever had serious discussions about emigrating. We have two sons. We need to consider their future. We don't want them to have same experiences we had. Lack of opportunity and ironically emigration.

ei.sdraob

Darragh29 wrote: »

My only question is, what might have a nation of people so utterly angry and full of rage??? And it isn't the recession, we were angry, agitated and cranky before we ever had to deal with a recession???

now that the tide has left, all the rubbish and waste (FAS ahem ahem) is surfacing up for all to see

jimmmy

Alright wrote: »

I guess I am a bit angry that the likes of Anglo was propped up & that there was/is so much waste of tax payers money.

Anglo and the other Banks owed so much money to foreign institutions the ECB would not lend us the 25 billion a year if they were allowed fail. As it was the govt had enough of a red face in Europe for not doing its job / seeing the regulator + Central bank doing its job properly.;)

Fighting Irish

The only thing that angers me are the people who don't know the unwritten rules of life(common sense)

johnnyskeleton

Darragh29 wrote: »

My only question is, what might have a nation of people so utterly angry and full of rage??? And it isn't the recession, we were angry, agitated and cranky before we ever had to deal with a recession???

Being stuck on a small damp island off the coast of Europe is bad enough, but we also have to live beside Great Britain. I'm amazed that in all the circumstances our anger is moderated by our gallows sense of humour.

contraflow

population wrote: »

But there is more caffeine in tea:D

Indeed there is, but why is it that coffee gives you more of a jolt than tea?? Can anyone explain this contradiction??

Martin 2

contraflow wrote: »

Originally Posted by population
But there is more caffeine in tea

Indeed there is, but why is it that coffee gives you more of a jolt than tea?? Can anyone explain this contradiction??

In its dry form, tea has higher caffeine levels than coffee per weight but as a prepared drink, tea usually has less caffeine than coffee, see here. Of course it also depends on how you take either.
What makes me 'angry' about coffee is the crazy prices these java joints charge.

xp90

Lack of fibre in our diets IMO

contraflow

Everything goes in cycles, we had 15 good years and now we are going to have a few bad years. We lost the run of ourselves in the good times and now we are losing the run of ourselves in the bad times thinking we have sank into a black pit from which we shall never emerge.
You can be angry at our politicians for failing to lead, senior civil servants for failing to regulate and bankers for lending recklessly. But what about the house vendors, publicans, shopkeepers, solicitors, estate agents, doctors, trades men, restaurateurs, motor sellers, etc. etc... did they all not rake it in with high prices during the boom, and did we all not queue up to buy like drunk lemmings. Nobody held a gun to our heads when we were buying property or when we were accepting mortgages we couldn’t afford. All estate agents and bankers can do is make it seem sexy and cool to borrow and buy without regard to the cost, but ultimately it is us who must accept personally responsibility for believing their double dealing rhetoric. If you want to be angry then be angry at yourself. If you are depending on politicians, high level civil servants and high level bankers to guard your quality of life then you are only going to be disappointed.
We needed this recession to kop us all on. It’s great that property is becoming affordable, it’s great that food and drink and prices in general are dropping, it is to our credit that we no longer queue up like lemmings to be financially sodomized by every retailer and service provider in the country. It’s great that we have realised that bankers and estate agents are not the expediters of our dreams but are self serving slaves to commission.
I have been unemployed since April, I may emigrate in the New Year but only as a last resort, I still haven’t given up on Ireland. This recession is a necessary evil and we will all benefit from it in the long run.

contraflow

Martin 2 wrote: »

In its dry form, tea has higher caffeine levels than coffee per weight but as a prepared drink, tea usually has less caffeine than coffee, see here. Of course it also depends on how you take either.
What makes me 'angry' about coffee is the crazy prices these java joints charge.

Thanks for the explanation, these java joints are dropping their prices to stave off extinction. Personally, I think it's a futile effort. Tea is ready for a comeback... coffee you have had your 15 minutes... now get lost.

Rantan

contraflow wrote: »

Everything goes in cycles, we had 15 good years and now we are going to have a few bad years. We lost the run of ourselves in the good times and now we are losing the run of ourselves in the bad times thinking we have sank into a black pit from which we shall never emerge.
You can be angry at our politicians for failing to lead, senior civil servants for failing to regulate and bankers for lending recklessly. But what about the house vendors, publicans, shopkeepers, solicitors, estate agents, doctors, trades men, restaurateurs, motor sellers, etc. etc... did they all not rake it in with high prices during the boom, and did we all not queue up to buy like drunk lemmings. Nobody held a gun to our heads when we were buying property or when we were accepting mortgages we couldn’t afford. All estate agents and bankers can do is make it seem sexy and cool to borrow and buy without regard to the cost, but ultimately it is us who must accept personally responsibility for believing their double
dealing rhetoric. If you want to be angry then be angry at yourself. If you are depending on politicians, high level civil servants and high level bankers to guard your quality of life then you are only going to be disappointed.
We needed this recession to kop us all on. It’s great that property is becoming affordable, it’s great that food and drink and prices in general are dropping, it is to our credit that we no longer queue up like lemmings to be financially sodomized by every retailer and service provider in the country. It’s great that we have realised that bankers and estate agents are not the expediters of our dreams but are self serving slaves to commission.
I have been unemployed since April, I may emigrate in the New Year but only as a last resort, I still haven’t given up on Ireland. This recession is a necessary evil and we will all benefit from it in the long run.

I dont fully agree with this argument, yes of course your points are valid but personally I never bought into the Celtic Tiger. I knew this day would come so I never went along with the grotesque splurge. And yeah i know that doesn't protect me from anything or give me any right to anything or to be owed anything. But if I want to be angry about it well f**k it I'll be angry about it.
My worry is that maybe we wont benefit from this in the long run, we didn;t learn any lessons from past difficulties and that is waht brought us here so I have no faith that my children wont go through this all over again.

Malice

mikemac wrote: »

I sure was sickened and depressed with all the SSIA radio ads when it seemed everyone had one but me.

Whatever about buying a house, what was wrong about saving into an SSIA?

Captain Furball

Darragh29 wrote: »

I'm just going to throw this out there to see what other folks think of this view that I have....

Lately we are all furious, private sector is furious with the public sector, the public sector is furious with the private sector and the government, everyone is furious with everyone to be honest...

Just back in the Celtic Tiger, we noticed that people were more hostile and angry, and all it look was a small mistake or a chance turn of events to suffer the wrath of someone at the end of the phone or in person, the anger and fury was always there just below the surface, all it look was a small event to stratch the surface and out came the fury and the venom.

I'm sure we've all had the customer who rages furiously at you on the phone or in person over what in reality was probably a relatively minor issue at the time...

So I know I can say from my own experience that in the boom times, people were very angry and now we are in a recession and people are very angry.

My only question is, what might have a nation of people so utterly angry and full of rage??? And it isn't the recession, we were angry, agitated and cranky before we ever had to deal with a recession???

Maybe this is as good as it gets?

nyarlothothep

Maybe we should be angry at the way people are socialized as they grow up with the rewards/results culture. Its facilitates aggression and narcissism and a lack of solidarity, dog eat dog, the elites squash the lower classes, they in turn try to out compete each other, it makes for a pretty toxic environment, at odds with characteristics of human nature, if we take aggression, despair and suffering to negative things, which are in abundance in the world, I'd hazard a guess that not many people are happy with this state of affairs. Not doing a very good job of governing ourselves as each social system races and then limps into catastrophe.

jmayo

Darragh29 wrote: »

I'm just going to throw this out there to see what other folks think of this view that I have....

and all it look was a small mistake or a chance turn of events to suffer the wrath of someone at the end of the phone or in person, the anger and fury was always there just below the surface, all it look was a small event to stratch the surface and out came the fury and the venom.

I'm sure we've all had the customer who rages furiously at you on the phone or in person over what in reality was probably a relatively minor issue at the time...

If you work in Eircom then I can fully understand why customers are shouting, nay screaming at you over the phone. :rolleyes:

Liam Byrne wrote: »

In some cases, myself included, we're "angry" because we didn't buy in to the fiasco and lived within our means, and now we're being hammered by additional taxes and levies and god-knows-what in order to bail out the banks who fuelled it and the people who did get greedy.

And - to date - no-one has been jailed or held responsible (unlike America and the U.K.) and in the meantime those who presided over it get €600,000 payoffs and €700,000 unvouched expenses instead of being fired in disgrace.

If you or I did that we'd be jailed and fined and have to pay it back.

As ever this man speaks the truth.
I started reading Shane Ross's "The bankers" and the first chapter just lists all the dodgy corrupt unethical insider dealing and theiving carried out by our banks, insurance companies, over the last few decades.
And how many bankers, directors, investment managers have ever gone to jail in that time.

Oh wait there was one, Gallagher, who went to jail in the Northern Ireland.
This would be the area of Ireland so many people around here want us to drag into our own sorry little cesspit run by the connected well heeled trough gouding scumbags.

Last Novemeber the w*nkers (sorry top bankers) had a hidden get together with the guys from the regulators office to wish the chairman farewell in his retirement.
Nothing has changed and as long as the ordinary joe soaps, who actually are always left caryring the can, let it carry on nothing ever will.

By the way those ordinary joe soaps carrying the can aren't the long term unemployed who have never worked a day in their lives even when we were desperate for workers, nor the inept lazy ones who live in public sector land where you are rewarded no matter how badly you perform and while away your time until retirement.

The problem in this country is we moan, get angry with the wrong people, then it all blows over and things take up where they left off.

bonzos

I spent the last few weeks working on upgrading a state office in my local area, before this i was unemployed for 6 months.The level of waste and abuse of taxpayers money i have witness is nothing short of criminal!!!!70% of the "workers" there spend most of thier time walking around chatting or standing outside smoking cigarettes....this seem to be able to find any excuse to stop "work" and complain that we are distrubing them.Every morning there is 5-10 people bring in their household rubbish to dump in the office bins,there is a temp. bed set up in a store room for hangovers!!!!!these people are a total cancer in our country and it sickens me that my tax is being wasted in such a manner.I hope the that before this resession is over that this issue will be sorted out once and for all....bring in the boys from europe if need be.:mad:shame on you scum killing our country,do the job you are paid to do!!!!

jimmmy

bonzos wrote: »

I spent the last few weeks working on upgrading a state office in my local area, before this i was unemployed for 6 months.The level of waste and abuse of taxpayers money i have witness is nothing short of criminal!!!!70% of the "workers" there spend most of thier time walking around chatting or standing outside smoking cigarettes....this seem to be able to find any excuse to stop "work" and complain that we are distrubing them.Every morning there is 5-10 people bring in their household rubbish to dump in the office bins,there is a temp. bed set up in a store room for hangovers!!!!!these people are a total cancer in our country and it sickens me that my tax is being wasted in such a manner.I hope the that before this resession is over that this issue will be sorted out once and for all....bring in the boys from europe if need be.:mad:shame on you scum killing our country,do the job you are paid to do!!!!

+1. Well said and many people have had experiences like you, and know well whats going on.

Rantan

bonzos wrote: »

I spent the last few weeks working on upgrading a state office in my local area, before this i was unemployed for 6 months.The level of waste and abuse of taxpayers money i have witness is nothing short of criminal!!!!70% of the "workers" there spend most of thier time walking around chatting or standing outside smoking cigarettes....this seem to be able to find any excuse to stop "work" and complain that we are distrubing them.Every morning there is 5-10 people bring in their household rubbish to dump in the office bins,there is a temp. bed set up in a store room for hangovers!!!!!these people are a total cancer in our country and it sickens me that my tax is being wasted in such a manner.I hope the that before this resession is over that this issue will be sorted out once and for all....bring in the boys from europe if need be.:mad:shame on you scum killing our country,do the job you are paid to do!!!!

Tell that to most public workers and they wont believe you!!
I know the kind of upgarde I'd like to carry out in that place - it would involve an industrial sized shredder!

Dannyboy83

bonzos wrote: »

I spent the last few weeks working on upgrading a state office in my local area, before this i was unemployed for 6 months.The level of waste and abuse of taxpayers money i have witness is nothing short of criminal!!!!70% of the "workers" there spend most of thier time walking around chatting or standing outside smoking cigarettes....this seem to be able to find any excuse to stop "work" and complain that we are distrubing them.Every morning there is 5-10 people bring in their household rubbish to dump in the office bins,there is a temp. bed set up in a store room for hangovers!!!!!these people are a total cancer in our country and it sickens me that my tax is being wasted in such a manner.I hope the that before this resession is over that this issue will be sorted out once and for all....bring in the boys from europe if need be.:mad:shame on you scum killing our country,do the job you are paid to do!!!!

I get the feeling that there seem to be different rules for different agencies/offices or something like that.

One family member & a few cousins are in the health sector, and said there is far worse stuff than above, and said people could actually get jail sentences for the level of waste.
They also complained that there seem to be work practises are purely designed to obstruct people - things that people in the private sector just don't have to contend with.
One example was certain rules with not being allowed to use a USB key, you could only use an office usb key, but they had no office usb keys in stock and nobody seemed to know when they would get them, enforced ban on any internet access to the machine, so ultimately no method to get the files that you need, meaning you're supposed to just live with it and read the paper.
And meetings called for the most insanely stupid things, which last hours and people just drink tea/coffee and prolong it, Parnell style, simply to avoid doing any work, lol!
And none of the conclusions ever being enforced, just people suggesting stuff and a massive cloud of inertia that destroys your morale.
And any attempts to change it by the productive people are met with massive hostility by 'other people'.
So the productive people just have to put their head down and get on with it and try to ignore the rest.


One of my colleagues here told me his uncle took a big job with the NRA, and nearly went off his rocker because he had absolutely nothing to do all day. And even the lowest paid people were being paid 40k per year to sit around and play cards all day every day. People were coming to work at 10am, read the paper, lunch would be 90mins and home early on friday.
Plus they were practically bullied into buying houses, lol!

But on the other hand, One relative and a few friends are in the revenue services and they all say there is very little waste, and nothing like any of the stuff described above. They seem to operate like a company in the private sector. Other friends who've worked in clerical duties have vouched for the exact same thing.

So I guess there are a number of new sectors which are rampantly corrupt and out of control, and then there are a few other sectors which are nothing of the sort.


BTW, I was asking a few friends and cousins about this
http://www.tribune.ie/news/home-news/article/2009/oct/25/corruption-is-rife-among-gardai-claims-young-offic/
They confirmed its true, not everywhere, but in a lot of places.

irish_bob

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

I get the feeling that there seem to be different rules for different agencies/offices or something like that.

One family member & a few cousins are in the health sector, and said there is far worse stuff than above, and said people could actually get jail sentences for the level of waste.
They also complained that there seem to be work practises are purely designed to obstruct people - things that people in the private sector just don't have to contend with.
One example was certain rules with not being allowed to use a USB key, you could only use an office usb key, but they had no office usb keys in stock and nobody seemed to know when they would get them, enforced ban on any internet access to the machine, so ultimately no method to get the files that you need, meaning you're supposed to just live with it and read the paper.
And meetings called for the most insanely stupid things, which last hours and people just drink tea/coffee and prolong it, Parnell style, simply to avoid doing any work, lol!
And none of the conclusions ever being enforced, just people suggesting stuff and a massive cloud of inertia that destroys your morale.
And any attempts to change it by the productive people are met with massive hostility by 'other people'.
So the productive people just have to put their head down and get on with it and try to ignore the rest.


One of my colleagues here told me his uncle took a big job with the NRA, and nearly went off his rocker because he had absolutely nothing to do all day. And even the lowest paid people were being paid 40k per year to sit around and play cards all day every day. People were coming to work at 10am, read the paper, lunch would be 90mins and home early on friday.
Plus they were practically bullied into buying houses, lol!

But on the other hand, One relative and a few friends are in the revenue services and they all say there is very little waste, and nothing like any of the stuff described above. They seem to operate like a company in the private sector. Other friends who've worked in clerical duties have vouched for the exact same thing.

So I guess there are a number of new sectors which are rampantly corrupt and out of control, and then there are a few other sectors which are nothing of the sort.


BTW, I was asking a few friends and cousins about this
http://www.tribune.ie/news/home-news/article/2009/oct/25/corruption-is-rife-among-gardai-claims-young-offic/
They confirmed its true, not everywhere, but in a lot of places.

NO NO , never , its not true , i refuse to believe any of it , the media has informed your opinion regarding the civil service , worker against worker __________

Dannyboy83

LOL:D

yoshytoshy

This thread got me thinking ,would it be possible to setup a crack team ,to inspect every section of public services/clerical etc.

We have the revenue commisioner and tax man ,on everyones backs for money.
Who do the public have ?

ParkRunner

yoshytoshy wrote: »

This thread got me thinking ,would it be possible to setup a crack team ,to inspect every section of public services/clerical etc.

We have the revenue commisioner and tax man ,on everyones backs for money.
Who do the public have ?

Colm McCarthy, FOI Requests, Eddie Hobbs, ESRI, CSO, The Sunday Independent..

jimmmy

EF wrote: »

Colm McCarthy, FOI Requests, Eddie Hobbs, ESRI, CSO, The Sunday Independent..

And yet their gross pay has not been reduced, FAS still has a budget of a billion a year ( well transatlantic first class flights + hairdressers in Florida etc are expensive ye know )....