Protein/Carb/Fat intake - how much do I need?

jeff lebowski

Hi,

First off, I weight 80kg, 5'9" in height, body fat is probably 12-13%. Training 5 times a week. I have a solid training programme and have been training away for 2 or so years.

My question is, given my stats, what protein/carbs and fat should I be taking in through my diet? My goal is to continue to add muscle but at the same time lose some of the fat. The fat loss isn't so much of a problem as I will be doing a lot of running seperate to my weight training (I know that has repercussions for my overall calorie intake to add muscle but I have that end of it worked out). I think if I pay more attention to my nutrition and really nail it down in a plan like my training programme, I will make quicker progress.

I searched on here and checked on other sites but got conflicting info on how much of each to take. I've done some calculations and they add up to 1.5g of protein per Lb of bodyweight and 1.8g of carbs resulting in 265g protein and 318g of carbs....didn't find a good calculation for fat.

Anyone got a good bit of knowledge on this who could give me some pointers? Cheers.

EileenG

Work out your calories first. If you've been tracking your food in the past, then you have a good idea of what those should be. The calories you eat in a week where you don't change weight are your maintenance calories regardless of what some online calculators may say.

Reduce those calories for cutting, increase for bulking.

Personally, I reckon 1g of protein per pound of LEAN mass is enough. Too much and you just turn your protein into very expensive glucose. Get a good amount of healthy fats, including a regular supply of fish oil and olive oil (but the saturated fats in eggs and meat are good too, don't be scared of them). The rest of your calories can came from whatever combination of carbs and fats you want. But make sure the carbs are unrefined and do not involve sugar or white flour. Eat LOTS of green veg.

There is no perfect diet, there's just the one that suits you and that you will stick to.

As a starting point, I've found that for most people with a desk job, even if they kick ass in the gym, about 14 calories per pound of lean mass is a good starting point for cutting. If you are very young or very muscular, or have an active job or are breastfeeding, you need to increase. That still leaves room for occasional refeeds or cheat meals.

jeff lebowski

Thanks for the reply. I'd really need to do a food diary for a week and work it all out to see my calorie intake as I have lost track of it of late although I don't eat any crisps, bars etc. and have cut out white bread, white pasta etc. I think I have a clean enough diet (bar a few beers at the wknd - a vice I think I'll need to keep up to some extent to get through all this recession depression!)

I take it if I estimate my bodyfat at 13% then my lean mass is 87% of 80kg, which is 69.6kg. I read that the most protein your body can absorb is 2g per 1kg, is that correct?

EileenG

Close enough. It's not a precise figure, you can eat more if you want to make your meals tasty, just don't feel you have to shove in huge amounts of additional protein. It's easy to get enough in your meals if they have decent ingredients.

Open a free account with www.fitday.com. That will do your counting for you. Just plug in your food and let them do the rest. Anything you eat regularly, you might need to enter as a custom food, Irish meat tends to be lower fat than American, and Irish salmon is higher. Irish eggs are usually bigger too.

jeff lebowski

What about carbs? I know most of these should be low GI complex carbs....any figure I should use as a guide?

jeff lebowski

Signed up for that, good website.

What would be an appropriate carb intake bearing in mind my goals? (Planning on starting the stronglifts 5x5 programme next week to change things up a bit plus do 3 kettlebell workouts a week)

EileenG

You might be talking to the wrong person here, because I'm a big fan of low carb diets. For someone who is training hard, I'd probably suggest a targeted ketogenic diet (where you mostly eat low carb but have a carb meal before and after workouts) or cyclical ketogenic diet where you eat low carb all week, with a whey shake after lifting, and then have a high carb refeed once a week.

Personally, I think CKD is your best bet for losing fat while maintaining or gaining muscle, but you'll hear lots of other opinions, and you have to pick the one that suits you.

ragg

EileenG wrote: »

You might be talking to the wrong person here, because I'm a big fan of low carb diets. For someone who is training hard, I'd probably suggest a targeted ketogenic diet (where you mostly eat low carb but have a carb meal before and after workouts) or cyclical ketogenic diet where you eat low carb all week, with a whey shake after lifting, and then have a high carb refeed once a week.

Personally, I think CKD is your best bet for losing fat while maintaining or gaining muscle, but you'll hear lots of other opinions, and you have to pick the one that suits you.

I agree I carb up before and after traing an thats it - it works in that you lose weight and appear to build musclein...

EileenG

ragg wrote: »

I agree I carb up before and after traing an thats it - it works in that you lose weight and appear to build musclein...

Very popular with competitive athletes. My local taekwondo club does this all the time.

The classic CKD is more popular with bodybuilders.

Killme00

EileenG wrote: »

As a starting point, I've found that for most people with a desk job, even if they kick ass in the gym, about 14 calories per pound of lean mass is a good starting point for cutting..

Im an idiot, so just for clarity are you saying to eat 14cal per pound of lean mass per day to lose weight?

EileenG wrote: »

For someone who is training hard, I'd probably suggest a targeted ketogenic diet (where you mostly eat low carb but have a carb meal before and after workouts) or cyclical ketogenic diet where you eat low carb all week, with a whey shake after lifting, and then have a high carb refeed once a week.

I think a targeted ketogenic diet would work best for me because i find it very hard to train as often as i do on low carbs. How long before and how long after training for these meals? Can you suggest a good carb meal for this purpose as a starting point?

Thanks

EileenG

Yes. For the average desk jockey, around 13 calories per pound of total weight is maintenance, give or take a few calories. So 14 cals per pound of lean mass is a good cutting level, which means that more muscular guys get more than someone who is very overweight.

Something like porridge and cottage cheese is a good preworkout meal, as it contains slow release carbs and protein which should keep you going all through your workout. Afterwards, something like whey and glucose, possibly with some skim milk, should work. But you have a lot of room to play with your carb meals, as you can try different things before each workout and see what works best for you.

Roper

Here's an interesting idea, I'll break it down as follows:

On any given day you're either eating loads, a some or little. If you want to gain mass, eat loads, if you want to stay at the level you're at, eat some, and if you want to lose weight, eat a bit so that you don't fall over unexpectedly.

I have never had any sustained success with any sort of diet. I like and enjoy my food and I've found that eating slightly less helps me lose weight, loads helps me gain and some helps me stay the same way. Everything else is unlivable with, either for me or the ones I love. I wonder if anyone on here with experience feels the same way.

spaceylou

Anita Bean - Guide to Nutrition for athletes is a great book for what you want to know. She explains all the science bits but in plain english, and gives lots of information about how to work out calories, protein/fat/carb needs etc. She also gives some examples of meal plans to start you off.

Definately a book I would recommend if you want to improve your training by ensuring you are fueling well. And following her advise you can definately enjoy a wide variety of yummy food.

jeff lebowski

Thanks for the info everyone.

Killme00

EileenG wrote: »

Yes. For the average desk jockey, around 13 calories per pound of total weight is maintenance, give or take a few calories. So 14 cals per pound of lean mass is a good cutting level, which means that more muscular guys get more than someone who is very overweight.

Something like porridge and cottage cheese is a good preworkout meal, as it contains slow release carbs and protein which should keep you going all through your workout. Afterwards, something like whey and glucose, possibly with some skim milk, should work. But you have a lot of room to play with your carb meals, as you can try different things before each workout and see what works best for you.

Ive read a little online, there appears to be more written about CKD than TKD.

Of those 13 cals per Lb, they (with regards to CKD) are saying that 4cal should be from protein and 9cal should be from fats. Is this correct and how can you eat 9cal of fat per lb of lean mass.

From a TKD perspective:
Assuming an LBM of 80kg (175 lbs ish) = 2500cal maintenance
175g protein required = 700cal
This leaves 1800 cal for fats and workout carbs. Assuming five meals, three would include fat and two would include carbs and all including protein, how much carbs is required?

EileenG

You already worked it out. 175g of protein, spread over all your meals.

I think you are getting confused between grams and calories. 1g of protein contains 4 calories. So does 1g of carbs. 1g of fat contains 9 calories, which is why people used to be advised to cut fat, because it looked like an easy way to save calories.

Assuming your daily diet is 2500 cals, then you'd eat about 175g of protein, about 50-70g of carbs, most around workouts, and the rest green veg, and around 173g of fat.

Killme00

EileenG wrote: »

You already worked it out. 175g of protein, spread over all your meals.

I think you are getting confused between grams and calories. 1g of protein contains 4 calories. So does 1g of carbs. 1g of fat contains 9 calories, which is why people used to be advised to cut fat, because it looked like an easy way to save calories.

Assuming your daily diet is 2500 cals, then you'd eat about 175g of protein, about 50-70g of carbs, most around workouts, and the rest green veg, and around 173g of fat.

Thanks, meant to say carbs but you answered that one for me

MissMotivated

EileenG, don't mean to hijack this thread but just trying to work that out for myself, id need about 90 g of protein which is 360 cals, say 33g of fat which is 297 cals and say 50g of carbs which is 200 cals (just guessing the fats and carbs here) so thats about 857 cals and my intake should be about 1300 to lose weight, so just wondering roughly what do i make the rest up with?? fruit and veg?

Killme00

MissMotivated wrote: »

EileenG, don't mean to hijack this thread but just trying to work that out for myself, id need about 90 g of protein which is 360 cals, say 33g of fat which is 297 cals and say 50g of carbs which is 200 cals (just guessing the fats and carbs here) so thats about 857 cals and my intake should be about 1300 to lose weight, so just wondering roughly what do i make the rest up with?? fruit and veg?

Working backwards makes it easier:

1300 cals per day - 360 (protein) - 200 (carbs) = 840 left
840 / 9 = 93grams of fat

BUT if you weigh 90lbs (LBM), do you think this would be the correct diet for you? I dont know your particular detals but that sounds very small.

EileenG

MissMotivated wrote: »

EileenG, don't mean to hijack this thread but just trying to work that out for myself, id need about 90 g of protein which is 360 cals, say 33g of fat which is 297 cals and say 50g of carbs which is 200 cals (just guessing the fats and carbs here) so thats about 857 cals and my intake should be about 1300 to lose weight, so just wondering roughly what do i make the rest up with?? fruit and veg?

Agree you sound very small. Are you sure about your numbers?

If you are doing straight keto, then allow 1g of protein per pound of lean mass, and assume this is about 30% of your total calories. Allow 5-10% of calories for carbs and the rest is fat.

Keto is a high fat, moderate protein, low carb diet (which won't give you a heart attack, promise). The idea is that eating a high fat diet forces your body into fat burning mode (ketosis) so that when calories run short (because this is a diet), your body goes looking for more calories in your muffin top. One of the advantages of the diet is that ketosis tends to reduce hunger, so you'll be less inclined to cheat. Also, the food itself (eggs, oily fish, fresh meat, lots and lots of green veg, olive oil, nuts etc) is very healthy and many people find minor health problems clear up.

MissMotivated

Thanks guys. I might not have numbers correct, but im 5 ft tall and roughly 117 lbs at the moment, according to the machine in the gym my bodyfat was 24.5 % 6 weeks ago, its been broken since so can't check it!! so if im calculating this right thats roughly 29 lbs of bodyfat, which leaves me with 88 (say 90) lbs of lean body mass, so 90 g of protein? i have tried using gems formula and some other sites to calculate my needed calorie intake (taking into account a deficit, gym etc.) and it seems to be around 1300-1400. Don't know much about this diet to be honest only what i see on these threads, just am thinking about going for a low carb diet of some description, the muffin top is really bugging me now!!

TommyKnocker

Hi MissMotivated

My 2 cents worth is that if you are going to workout your mirco-nutrient proportions based on your lean mass, then you owe it to your self to get your bodyweight measured accurately by a professional with calliphers.

I have seen the machines you speak of make fairly big miscalculations of body fat. Ask in your gym if they provide BF measuring, and if so then get it measured properly and then get it done once a month or every 2 weeks (if your anal like me ) to ensure that your diet is giving you the results you expect.

As I said, it's just my 2 cents worth.


Best Regards,

M

MissMotivated

Hi B-Builder
I know a few people said to me those machines aren't that accurate but someone that also uses the gym told me they don't use a calliphers so I didn't ask. I presumed all gyms would actually use one to be honest, i'm going to ask tonight anyway and see if they do. I would prefer to be able to have an accurate reading. Thanks!