The Definitive Ronan O'Gara and Jonny Sexton thread. [Mod Note. Post No. 6]

thomond2006

This has been a huge issue on the forum for a while now, so I thought it would be good and proper if we had one thread for this.

Say who would pick against Australia and why.

Please don't say "I pick X because Y is crap/useless/shíte". Those discussions go nowhere and will only annoy others.

Let's try and have a reasoned discussion and not go Munster vs Leinster all over again. We're all adults here.

And please don't shoot down somebody's opinion.

If you feel you can't contribute to the thead, don't post.

Cheers.

danthefan

Sexton, because he's the best 10 in Ireland and our long term option.

I think I may have voted for ROG by accident. Oh well.

I don't think I'll post again in this thread either, have fun.

Risteard

Sexton:

1. Playing the best at this moment in time.

2. Has youth on his side, and we need to find a replacement for RoG or at the very least an alternative.

3. Can offer more to our game as he is a more rounded player than O'Gara.

Size=everything

Sexton :

(1) The most in form outhalf in the country right now

(2) Offers more than O'Gara in his play

(3) Time to blood a new outhalf

(4) Hes young and will be around for the next two world cups.

siltirocker

Surprised ROG has got so many.

toomevara

Got no problems with this discussion folks. Its a totally legitimate one and of vital importance to Irish rugby, BUT as we all know this debate can be like a full moon, i.e. all the window-lickers come out to play. Keep it civil, keep it OT and please, please keep it vaguely intelligent. I'm going to be massively intolerant of any provincial/pointlessly personalised crap.

chupacabra

Sexton. He is the future in that position and its about time we gave another outhalf some extended level of experience at international level. I would almost say at the risk of losing the games, but i feel pretty confident sexton would manage.

smurphy29

Jonno should start. We need an alternative option, and ROG ain't getting any younger, and now is the time to do it. He's flying for Leinster, he's full of confidence, he's shown he can do it in big games - if not now, when? Better throw him in now and have him blooded so when it comes to the 6 Nations it can be a straight shoot-out based on form as to who plays.

Also, and not unimportantly - he's the man in form.

sedantez

I would chance Sexton based on his confidence and courage. His recent performance has been fantastic and I think he would revel in the occassion of playing one of the best teams in the world.

ROG is playing with alot of fear at the moment, he is lacking the self belief he previously had. He hasn’t been getting the basics right and hasn’t got the munster back line moving. Having said that he usually plays well for Ireland. Bring him off the bench if Sexton isn’t delivering the goods.

mink_man

Jonathan Sexton

o gara for his experience and tactical kicking.

Size=everything

mink_man wrote: »

o gara for his experience and tactical kicking.

Really hasn't been up to scratch lately though, Sexton's kicking out of hand has been far superior this season.

mink_man

mink_man wrote: »

...tactical kicking.

I think Sexton might just shade this area ahead of Ogara.

Has to be JS for me.

mink_man

Jonathan Sexton

Size=everything wrote: »

Really hasn't been up to scratch lately though, Sexton's kicking out of hand has been far superior this season.

correct...but i think start o gara then bring on sexton for the 2nd half to mix it up a bit. i think we all agree that sexton is gonna eb the no.1 future 10 for ireland.

bigfeller

I'd like to see JS start - since coming on last year against Munster he's proven that he can take the pressure in big games. O'Gara has been fantastic in the past but is off form at the moment.

That being said I think Declan will be picking RO'G to start.

Judgement Day

I'm a Munster and ROG fan but voted for Sexton to start as I think it would be good for both players. Give Sexton his head see how things go and bring on ROG if things don't work out. ROG needs to sort out his place kicking if he is to continue as Ireland's number 10.

Kenteach

Has to be Sexton this time. I'm a massive ROG fan, but time (and opposition) are right to blood Sexton. It will also improve O'Gara as he needs the competition to regain his own form. If O'Gara hadn't been head and shoulders above every other Irish 10 for so long, it wouldn't even be a debate as all the pointers go towards Sexton right now. It would be unfair on JS not to give him his head when he is bang in form and full of confidence.

Junior

It's a tough one to call, but as someone has said there's never a right time to blood a player, but this is about as good a chance as any. And I don't think Kidney has the EOS mentality of you have to lose the jersey.

However, I know RoG has gone and changed his kicking style, I watched him against Treviso, and he didn't seem 100% comfortable or set on it yet. I do wonder who's working with him, it's not something he'd go try on his own. And it's not certainly something he'd just do for the ****s and giggles of it, so if he's gone and done this he's doing it for a reason, and I think he will come back to form with it. Obviously if one part of his game isn't working it's going to affect the other part of his game.

JS is certainly knocking on the door, I still have questions over his temperament, but regardless he deserves his chance and we've got little or no backup so now we should be at least testing what we've got.

So after all that rambling I'd give the nod to JS.

SpAcEd OuT

Easy call, Sexton. Kidney doesn't play favourites and I fully expect Sexton to start.

pappyodaniel

Has to be Sexton. I think it's delusional to suggest O'Gara will start for Ireland on current form. Sexton can do everything O'Gara is noted for just as well. Where he has an advantage, is his physique, defense and most importantly, his confidence.

O'Gara has had so many ups and downs in his career and has proven himself to be of great character and bounced back time and time again. I hope his lull in form isn't going to continue for much longer. When O'Gara plays well, Munster AND Ireland play well.

uberwolf

JS.

All his kicking is ahead of OG at the mo.
And even if the kicking wasn't, the running and physical game is ahead of anything OG has ever produced.

And given that the 12 jersey has to be Wallace at the moment, the extra defensive capacity at 10 is also in JS favour.

pappyodaniel

uberwolf wrote: »

JS.

And given that the 12 jersey has to be Wallace at the moment, the extra defensive capacity at 10 is also in JS favour.

Oh please no, don't mention Wallace, i'm not going to give my opinion on no.12 but your selection of a 12 will be like catnip to the crazies and change the subject of this poll!

Sexton/O'Gara

[Jackass]

I more interested in who Kidney will pick.

For me there isn't even a debate on who should start, such has been the gulf in class between the two 10's this season. Obviously Sexton is streets ahead.

But will Kidney make the call? That's the most interesting part to me.

It's also why I'm especially gutted about Horans injury / sickness, because Healy ahead of Horan is another blatantly obvious call to transition to the new, younger and now better and on form player, but looks like Healy will get it by default.

I'm hoping Kidney embraces change and rewards form, cause I'm not sure I could go through another EO'S mentality!

Also can't wait to see the lineup v Fiji, as hopefully lots of young fringe players can get a run.

d'Oracle

I'd pick ROG.

Experience and awareness.
Aussie are a hell of a team and we will need his awesome out of hands kicking etc.

But I suspect Steak and Kidney to pick Sexton on form.
Which I would be happier with really.

phog

Jonathan Sexton

I'd pick ROG for the 1st game with Sexton getting at least 20 mins, Sexton for the full game against Fiji and if he survives that then the full game against SA. There's only one way to blood a player and thats blood him.

Maybe Paddy Wallace should get some time at 10 as well as it looks like that's the back-up for ROG and Sexton.

danthefan

phog wrote: »

Maybe Paddy Wallace should get some time at 10 as well as it looks like that's the back-up for ROG and Sexton.

Don't agree with that at all. What's the point? He's not a 10, he'll never be picked at 10, if ROG and Sexton go down we are screwed regardless of whether we give Wallace a bit of gametime in the AIs or not. All giving Wallace time at 10 would achieve is taking it away from Sexton, which would be bad.

uberwolf

pappyodaniel wrote: »

Oh please no, don't mention Wallace, i'm not going to give my opinion on no.12 but your selection of a 12 will be like catnip to the crazies and change the subject of this poll!

Sexton/O'Gara

phog wrote: »

Maybe Paddy Wallace should get some time at 10 as well as it looks like that's the back-up for ROG and Sexton.

danthefan wrote: »

Don't agree with that at all. What's the point? He's not a 10, he'll never be picked at 10, if ROG and Sexton go down we are screwed regardless of whether we give Wallace a bit of gametime in the AIs or not. All giving Wallace time at 10 would achieve is taking it away from Sexton, which would be bad.

oopps.

I think it's reasonable to think in terms of combinations. But your thread!

danthefan

I'm perfectly fine with Wallace at 12.

barneygumble

Has to be Sexton for me.

I can't think of a reason why he shouldn't start.

It's too soon to write off ROG but Sexton is the future.

GO'S

im a munster man at heart and it kills me to pick sexton but it has to be done.Sexton is young and on form whilst o gara is playing abysmal rugby and is past his sell by date.Wouldnt be surprised if he loses the 10 shirt t munster.We should also we looking forward to the world cup.

GO'S

danthefan wrote: »

Don't agree with that at all. What's the point? He's not a 10, he'll never be picked at 10, if ROG and Sexton go down we are screwed regardless of whether we give Wallace a bit of gametime in the AIs or not. All giving Wallace time at 10 would achieve is taking it away from Sexton, which would be bad.

Do not agree...there is the talented ian humpries at are disposal?

stephen_n

Jonathan Sexton

I voted O'Gara even though his form is not as good as Sextons at the moment I still think O'Gara should start the big two games due to his experience with Sexton finishing out both games and Sexton and Keatley starting and finishing against Figi. Depending on how the AI's go should decide who starts the 6N

danthefan

stephen_n wrote: »

I voted O'Gara even though his form is not as good as Sextons at the moment I still think O'Gara should start the big two games due to his experience with Sexton finishing out both games and Sexton and Keatley starting and finishing against Figi. Depending on how the AI's go should decide who starts the 6N

Keatley isn't even in the extended squad, at least keep it feasible.

lawrenceSummer

Jonathan Sexton

to me it doesnt really matter who starts the first two tests, we can win against Aus and Fiji either with ROG or JS starting, and they will both get game time in the first 2 tests

But the player who has done best has to start against SA, i can see sexton taking his chance when he gets it, but i think kidney will start ROG in the first game.

im a munster fan and think the only problem ROG has is his place kicking, if he gets that right he will be fine, wheather that is better than what JS does is up to kidney (and ROG will benefit from a month in kidneys stewardship, it could turn his season)

overall isnt it a good complaint to have that we have these 2 great OH, even if one isnt playing his best

corny

If you were to pick purely on form this season ROG wouldn't even make the extended squad such is his form. I also think he'll never regain the form of old.

Sexton is the better defender, better with ball in hand, better attacker and right now, the better kicker. Has to be Sexton but i have a feeling this is all immaterial because ROG will start against Australia and SA!

Size=everything

If ROG starts against South Africa that will be one of the biggest jokes in world rugby.

Hes very lucky to even be in the squad ahead of Humphries I am actually shocked that 1/4 of people actually think he should start! I mean jesus christ

duckysauce

Jonathan Sexton

[Jackass] wrote: »

I more interested in who Kidney will pick.

For me there isn't even a debate on who should start, such has been the gulf in class between the two 10's this season. Obviously Sexton is streets ahead.

But will Kidney make the call? That's the most interesting part to me.

It's also why I'm especially gutted about Horans injury / sickness, because Healy ahead of Horan is another blatantly obvious call to transition to the new, younger and now better and on form player, but looks like Healy will get it by default.

I'm hoping Kidney embraces change and rewards form, cause I'm not sure I could go through another EO'S mentality!

kidney won the gs eos won a few poxy crowns

Also can't wait to see the lineup v Fiji, as hopefully lots of young fringe players can get a run.

kidney won the gs eos won a few poxy crowns

anonymous_joe

Size=everything wrote: »

If ROG starts against South Africa that will be one of the biggest jokes in world rugby.

Hes very lucky to even be in the squad ahead of Humphries I am actually shocked that 1/4 of people actually think he should start! I mean jesus christ

He's the form Irish out-half closely followed by iHumph.

iHumph's exclusion from the squad is an absolute travesty though.

siltirocker

corny wrote: »

If you were to pick purely on form this season ROG wouldn't even make the extended squad such is his form.

Well said, it'd be Sexton well ahead, then iHumph followed closely by Keatley.

ROG wouldn't be mentioned.

We have 3 outside half backs in tremedous form (iHumph & Keatley seemingly getting in better form every week:eek: & Sexton playing flawlessly:cool:, even his discipline in getting *slightly*:P better) . None of them will be wearing a no. 10 jersey against the Wallabies IMO.
That's the way things are though.:(

peterako

Sexton:

- On Form
- More complete player
- Killer instinct (at the moment)

Just my humble opinion. No doubt Mr. Kidney will disagree....

Dickerty

Shouldn't be overlooked that Sexton would have a very familiar back line with BOD, Fitz and Kearney, so this would make it easier for him to play his usual game.

Sexton for all three games.

Otacon

Jonathan Sexton

I don't know if I want Sexton to start against AUS. Remember, this will be his first game for Ireland [seniors I mean]. I don't want to pull a 'Cipriani' on him; have him start opposite Giteau, be outclassed [it IS Giteau we are talking about] and then be banished from the team for a year!

Personally I say we start O'Gara. At half-time, put Sexton in there to change the game. My €0.02

Everyone is in agreement that Sexton is our new out-half, most definitely. What I am suggesting is we don't mess this up by throwing him in the deep end. I'll put it this way; if the Fiji game was first, then he would be starting all three games, but, in this case, he would be starting opposite Giteau. No fledgling out-half should have to do that.

danthefan

Sexton's already been thrown in the deep end, and he swam, the pressure of starting against Aus won't be greater than the HEC SF or Final. The rugby will be of a higher standard against Aus obviously but he's talented enough imo.

eoferrall

Voted for Sexton because:


- The most in form outhalf in the country right now (IMO!)

- currently offers more than O'Gara in his play general play and has potential to get better by playing in bigger games.

- as above O'gara is not getting younger or better so need a replacement sooner or later so time to start players in friendlies and see what they are made of

- Sexton performed in the HC semi (granted without prematch nerves as came on quickly and early so no time to think) but also performed in the final when he knew he would be playing so has performed at the top that he has had access to.

- It is a competitive friendly and these are the times to test new players rather than 6 nations etc. if he tanks, then we still have O'gara to step in who we know how to expect. he always has a minimum performance...just he is playing more and more at this level!

eoferrall

Otacon wrote: »

I don't know if I want Sexton to start against AUS. Remember, this will be his first game for Ireland [seniors I mean]. I don't want to pull a 'Cipriani' on him; have him start opposite Giteau, be outclassed [it IS Giteau we are talking about] and then be banished from the team for a year!

Personally I say we start O'Gara. At half-time, put Sexton in there to change the game. My €0.02

Everyone is in agreement that Sexton is our new out-half, most definitely. What I am suggesting is we don't mess this up by throwing him in the deep end. I'll put it this way; if the Fiji game was first, then he would be starting all three games, but, in this case, he would be starting opposite Giteau. No fledgling out-half should have to do that.

But what happens if he holds his own and it catapults him up with the confidence to reach new heights?

no risk no reward im my opinion..

Otacon

Jonathan Sexton

Possibly he could handle it. Though I believe there is a significant difference between international and club level.

As I said, I don't want a 'Cipriani' situation. I am simply trying to play it safe.

danthefan

Otacon wrote: »

Possibly he could handle it. Though I believe there is a significant difference between international and club level.

As I said, I don't want a 'Cipriani' situation. I am simply trying to play it safe.

Cipriani was coming back from a horrific injury though, he tore us to shreds in the 6N before he got injured for example.

Otacon

Jonathan Sexton

eoferrall wrote: »

It is a competitive friendly and these are the times to test new players rather than 6 nations etc. if he tanks, then we still have O'gara to step in who we know how to expect. he always has a minimum performance...just he is playing more and more at this level!

International rugby is International rugby. Test matches are never friendlies.

eoferrall wrote: »

But what happens if he holds his own and it catapults him up with the confidence to reach new heights?

no risk no reward im my opinion..

I don't want to gamble his future. As I said, only my €0.02

gcgirl

Otacon wrote: »

Possibly he could handle it. Though I believe there is a significant difference between international and club level.

As I said, I don't want a 'Cipriani' situation. I am simply trying to play it safe.

The Munster/Leinster match is as intense a game your gonna get and the way ROG has been playing lately i'd put Sexton in there and see how he goes,
'Cipriani' was a different kettle of fish ala beckhamish celeb before what pays his bread and butter and he did have a pretty serious injury!

Podge_irl

duckysauce wrote: »

kidney won the gs eos won a few poxy crowns

The difference between Clerc scoring a last minute try and Jones missing with a last minute penalty is not all that great.

Podge_irl

Otacon wrote: »

I don't know if I want Sexton to start against AUS. Remember, this will be his first game for Ireland [seniors I mean]. I don't want to pull a 'Cipriani' on him; have him start opposite Giteau, be outclassed [it IS Giteau we are talking about] and then be banished from the team for a year!

There is a much simpler way to avoid a "Cipriani" situation, and that is to not banish him for one bad test match rather than not start him.

corny

Really couldn't see Sexton letting the pressure or the higher standard get to him. Just doesn't seem the type. If anything i think he'd excel the greater the challenge. Don't know the chap personally but he doesn't lack confidence from what i've seen.

"Who would you pick" being the thread title is bit different from Who will be picked. The guesswork aside lets face it ROG is a certainty!