The Haka

LumpyChicken

I was just beetling along minding my own business on you tube when I came across a video of the haka. Having seen it live myself I just don't get the fuss, to be honest it always pisses me off when New Zealand perform it and then either complain that the opposition were either too frightened to issue a challenge of their own or were disrespectful in facing up to it. Another thing that gets me going is players of non Maori heritage taking part and the dress rehersals before games. I am all for respecting other cultures but this is rugby, not a pantomime.

Risteard

I like the haka but I do think there is a tendancy for the kiwis to get a bit upset over it if it doesn't go their way or if they perceive people to 'disrespect' it.
e.g. when Wales a couple of years ago said they wanted it performed before the National Anthems, at the time I was against it but hey, their stadium their rules is my opinion now.

That said when I saw it at Thomond Park it was pretty class.

danthefan

It's as much a commercial tool as anything these days to be honest. Here's the Haka as performed in the 70s:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBCpPGNDr1U

I would just like to add I enjoy the Haka.

chupacabra

Couldn't give a toss about the Haka, and anyone who does needs to get their priorities straight.

conf101

danthefan wrote: »

It's as much a commercial tool as anything these days to be honest. Here's the Haka as performed in the 70s:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBCpPGNDr1U

Ha ha, half of them don't even look like they know it! Interesting to see the difference between then and now!

komodosp

That 70s one is a bit of a laugh!

But isn't it supposed to be an intimidating war-dance type thing? If so, then they shouldn't be moaning if people disrespect it! It kind of takes away from the big-intimidating-man persona if you go whining later that people weren't paying attention... I can't imagine their Maori warrior fore-fathers whining to their bosses if their enemies didn't respect their war dance.

Also if they are told not to do it, imagine the defiance it would show if they went ahead and did it anyway! Even if they didn't have time before the match started... (kick-off taken and everyone out of position), it would be some spectacle if they scored their first try, and as the opponents were lining up behind the goal line as they do, the all-blacks broke into the Haka in front of them, using the time it takes the out-half to set up the ball for the conversion!

d'Oracle

komodosp wrote: »

That 70s one is a bit of a laugh!

But isn't it supposed to be an intimidating war-dance type thing?

No.
Thats just what ignorant commentators and people who don't understand it think.

piby

It has certainly become a complete marketing gimmick and the carry-on of the Blacks sometimes if they can't do is just as bad. But I do believe in essence it's a great part of rugby in an age where so few sports retain any sort of culture or traditionalism, and at the end of the day shouldn't that be what it's all about?

Depp

when you see nz maori do it its scary the amount of passion they put into it, best haka moments are munster last year and the willie anderson incident

thomond2006

Lads, it's a Maori tradition.

If they want to perform the Haka then let them, the Maori people are getting well paid for it.

The_Kew_Tour

danthefan wrote: »

It's as much a commercial tool as anything these days to be honest. Here's the Haka as performed in the 70s:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBCpPGNDr1U

If we just had some diddle iddle music in that video it make for some flipping laugh. Still funny.

Remember the Wales players last year just stood there after the Haka was performed last year. Taught it was good idea, although most taught different.

Like the Haka be honest it just part of what the all blacks come with really end of.

Judgement Day

Jesus, I really can't believe any real rugby fan can have anything against the Haka. It's a real spectacle, sometimes better than others, but it really pumps up the atmosphere even watching it down in my local with the volume turned up LOUD. Seeing the way it has developed since the 1970s video should be an encouragement to us all especially in an country that can only produce the appalling "Ireland's Call". Who can ever forget the spectacle that was put on with the two Hakas at Thomond Park last year and the respect shown by the crowd to the NZ Haka?

conf101

Speaking of the Haka as a marketing tool:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CndbDrnBX5s

Profiler

thomond2006 wrote: »

Lads, it's a Maori tradition.

If they want to perform the Haka then let them, the Maori people are getting well paid for it.

Can you support the suggestion that "the Maori people are getting well a paid for it"

Profiler

chupacabra wrote: »

Couldn't give a toss about the Haka, and anyone who does needs to get their priorities straight.

Well thanks for clearing that up for the entire New Zealand nation and all the Maori people :rolleyes:

If you think nobody should care about something like the Haka, a source of emensie pride for some then can we please make sure nobody ever again mentions the 2009 Irish Grand Slam, Munster beating the All Blacks, Leinster winning the Heineken Cup etc etc etc...

Aidric

thomond2006 wrote: »

If they want to perform the Haka then let them, the Maori people are getting well paid for it.

Wtf are you on about, getting paid for it?

Limerick91

I really don't understand why teams give it so much respect.

I my opinion teams should do line out drills and some bag work while the Haka is taking place and then simply line up for kick off when it is over

tHE vAGGABOND

One of the things which make Rugby great is the way everyone is proud of their own traditions and everyone respects the other teams traditions, be that respecting their kicker, their anthem or the southern hemisphere nations doing their traditional dances..

if you want to abuse them - go and feck off and watch soccer

Stev_o

Im presuming this

BBC wrote:

New Zealand Maori win haka fight
NZ rugby team, winning Rugby Sevens in Hong Kong March 2008, perform Haka
The All Blacks traditionally perform the Ka Mate haka before their matches

The New Zealand government has agreed to acknowledge Maori ownership of the haka war dance used by the national rugby team, the All Blacks.

The agreement comes after protracted negotiations between the government and several Maori tribes seeking compensation for historic grievances.

Millions of dollars are being paid in a comprehensive settlement.

The move follows concerns the Ka Mate haka, known to rugby fans world-wide, was being commercially exploited.

In 2006, an advertisement for Fiat cars featured Italian women doing a version of the haka.

The challenge has also featured in a cinema film about rugby called Forever Strong.

The government has now agreed that the Ka Mate haka belongs to a Maori tribe, the Ngati Toa.

Its chief, Te Rauparaha, was recognised as the originator of the haka, written to celebrate his escape from death in a battle in the 1820s.

What exactly is a haka?

Cash settlement

Wider grievances, dating back more than 150 years, are also part of the settlement, with the government distributing NZ$300m (US$157m, £108m) to eight Maori tribes.

The eight tribes comprise some 12,000 members and will receive about half the amount in cash and the rest in rents from government-owned forests and greenhouse gas emission credits.

Maori make up around 15% of New Zealand's 4.3 million population.

They say they have been the victims of illegal land seizures and breaches of the Treaty of Waitangi, which was agreed between British settlers and indigenous people in 1840.

One Maori negotiator said this latest settlement would never make up for what had been taken but would provide a resource for the future.

Crash

As far as I remember, the old Haka was one used by some of the Maori around the Wellington region and original challenges like the above led to the adoption of the most recent Haka, which was brand new so that it could be copyrighted etc.

Profiler

Stev_o wrote: »

Im presuming this

Well lets see if that is what Thomand2006 is referring to however there is mention of the Haka but the last part of the article is the most significant.

"Wider grievances, dating back more than 150 years, are also part of the settlement,

Maori make up around 15% of New Zealand's 4.3 million population.

They say they have been the victims of illegal land seizures and breaches of the Treaty of Waitangi, which was agreed between British settlers and indigenous people in 1840."

That is completely different to being "well paid" for the use of the Haka however lets give Thomand2006 the benefit of the doubt and see if he can come up with something directly Haka related

musky

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nc3RtK9d_kg

this is how to respect a haka

This Baby Black team received their toughest snd closest match in 2 years and by their own admission didn't deserve to win by 17 - 0, they believed that a 3 point win would have been a true reflection, such was their admiration for the tenacity of their opponents.

Size=everything

musky wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nc3RtK9d_kg

this is how to respect a haka

This Baby Black team received their toughest snd closest match in 2 years and by their own admission didn't deserve to win by 17 - 0, they believed that a 3 point win would have been a true reflection, such was their admiration for the tenacity of their opponents.

12/15 players were Leinster academy, Amazing really that just one province with 2 players from Ulster and 1 from Munster can run an international team so close

Can only mean good things for where Irish rugby is heading!

thomond2006

Aidric wrote: »

Wtf are you on about, getting paid for it?

No need to be abusive mate.

Stev_o wrote: »

Im presuming this

Precisely.

Size=everything

thomond2006 wrote: »

Precisely.

They're not getting paid for the Haka they're getting paid for the stolen land........

thomond2006

Size=everything wrote: »

They're not getting paid for the Haka they're getting paid for the stolen land........

You're probably right but really the government are paying the Maori for the licence to use the Haka within that payment.

Hyperbullet

Size=everything wrote: »

12/15 players were Leinster academy, Amazing really that just one province with 2 players from Ulster and 1 from Munster can run an international team so close

Can only mean good things for where Irish rugby is heading!

What exactly has that got to do with the topic at hand?

As for the haka, I think its given far too much respect by teams. Sure its a spectacle, but seeing it every time NZ play just takes the good out of it. If they only did it in big games. For instance a world cup final or the deciding game of the tri-nations then that would make it a little bit more unique. But thats just my take on things.

Next time Ireland play them we should have the squad do Riverdance in retort, though I dont think The Bull or Cian Healy for instance would be very graceful....

peterako

I still have my hopes up for us (Ireland) adopting a version of River Dance as our Haka.

After all, what is Irish Dancing if not Irish Martial Arts??

Size=everything

thomond2006 wrote: »

You're probably right but really the NZRU are paying the Maori for the licence to use the Haka within that payment.

Are you sure its not the government?

And I doubt they are paying for the haka solely, more so for all the grieviences i.e if the haka didnt exist it wouldn't change the compensation outcome to be honest I reckon it only got mentioned in the article because its so famous and probably played a miniscule to non existant role in the compensation pay out.

Size=everything

Hyperbullet wrote: »

What exactly has that got to do with the topic at hand?

Nothing really I was just going slightly O/T by responding to the statement that the Irish U20s ran the NZ close and were shown not to be phased by the haka.

thomond2006

Size=everything wrote: »

Are you sure its not the government?

And I doubt they are paying for the haka solely, more so for all the grieviences i.e if the haka didnt exist it wouldn't change the compensation outcome to be honest I reckon it only got mentioned in the article because its so famous and probably played a miniscule to non existant role in the compensation pay out.

Sorry, government.

Edited.

buck65

Did the Bull not already do riverdance this season?:D

2040

musky wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nc3RtK9d_kg

this is how to respect a haka

This Baby Black team received their toughest snd closest match in 2 years and by their own admission didn't deserve to win by 17 - 0, they believed that a 3 point win would have been a true reflection, such was their admiration for the tenacity of their opponents.

I thought that was a bit silly to be honest. I think the best way to handle the haka is how the Springboks did in the tri-nations. ie. Beat them in the subsequent game of rugby.

mink_man

i think its great!

Judgement Day

Hyperbullet wrote: »

What exactly has that got to do with the topic at hand?

As for the haka, I think its given far too much respect by teams. Sure its a spectacle, but seeing it every time NZ play just takes the good out of it. If they only did it in big games. For instance a world cup final or the deciding game of the tri-nations then that would make it a little bit more unique. But thats just my take on things.

Next time Ireland play them we should have the squad do Riverdance in retort, though I dont think The Bull or Cian Healy for instance would be very graceful....

We already do the horrendous "Ireland's Call". I have never met a genuine rugby fan who does not enjoy the Haka - too many Johnny Come Latelies posting on this subject me thinks.

Kenteach

For the kiwis and perhaps the spectators, the haka is indeed a spectacle to be enjoyed. For the opposition however, they should be more focussed on the game rather than watching/respecting/confronting the haka. Campese's method of dealing with it is about right, bugger off down the far end and continue and complete your warm up, let the dancers do what they want.

Podge_irl

I quite enjoy the Haka.

I do however have a problem with the ABs dictating how others should respond to it. I also have a problem with referees policing any response.

Hyperbullet

Judgement Day wrote: »

We already do the horrendous "Ireland's Call". I have never met a genuine rugby fan who does not enjoy the Haka - too many Johnny Come Latelies posting on this subject me thinks.

Just as entitled to an opinion as you mate.

d'Oracle

Judgement Day wrote: »

We already do the horrendous "Ireland's Call". I have never met a genuine rugby fan who does not enjoy the Haka - too many Johnny Come Latelies posting on this subject me thinks.

I have met tonnes.

And I'm sick of the debate about it too.
My take on it is if a player is intimidated by it, they should quit rugby, because they are a pussy.

In the Maori tradition hakas are done for everything. They are purely a group performance.

All this glitz and crap like that baby blacks one that starts in the huddle or Kapa o Ponga is just showponyism.

I like it, as I like the other island dances before matches, but there is loads of nonsense around it.

Thats actually more like it. Better performed, better recieved.
A few actual maoris in that lot too....

Stev_o

Generally teams that challenge it tend to get their ass handed to them and loose regardless which kinda defeats the whole purpose of challenging it in the first place. Just enjoy it and get on with the game personally i think it's pretty cool would pump me up if i was on the receiving end of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fYIUdVNFgU

handsomecake

to not like the haka or the all blacks is tantamount to not liking rugby
its a game england invented.
new zealand mastered it.
they have a population of 4 million (just like us).
world cups aside they whip every ones arses for all of rugby history.
besides sheep this is their biggest export.
they are one of the only countries without a sponsor on their chests.fair enough adidas pay them a princley sum,but dont give me the selling out argument.they could easily have bank of new zealand etc on their chests but they dont.
the haka has been around before anybody posting on this thread was born. its history,its heritage,its culture and it pre dates our appearance on this earth. irelands call was invented and is a shambles and an embarresment compared to the haka.
id cut off my right arm to perform the haka in front of 80000 people and only 1100 all blacks have had the privilage.
"Although the use of a haka by the All Blacks rugby union team has made one type of haka familiar, it has led to misconceptions. Haka[2] are not exclusively war dances, nor are they only performed by men. Some are performed by women, others by mixed groups, and some simple haka are performed by children. Haka are performed for various reasons: for amusement, as a hearty welcome to distinguished guests, or to acknowledge great achievements or occasions (McLean 1996:46-47). War haka (peruperu) were originally performed by warriors before a battle, proclaiming their strength and prowess in order to intimidate the opposition. Today, haka constitute an integral part of formal or official welcome ceremonies for distinguished visitors or foreign dignitaries, serving to impart a sense of the importance of the occasion.
Various actions are employed in the course of a performance, including facial contortions such as showing the whites of the eyes and the poking out of the tongue, and a wide variety of vigorous body actions such as slapping the hands against the body and stamping of the feet. As well as chanted words, a variety of cries and grunts are used. Haka may be understood as a kind of symphony in which the different parts of the body represent many instruments. The hands, arms, legs, feet, voice, eyes, tongue and the body as a whole combine to express courage, annoyance, joy or other feelings relevant to the purpose of the occasion"

jonah lomu was a world wide sports star before david beckham or tiger woods came to prominence.if it wasnt for the allblacks and all that goes with them and everyones perpetual need to beat them where would rugby be?? probably overtaken by other sports.where would we be with out michael schumacher,usain bolt ,brazilian football team,roger federer etc .
have some bloody respect for the pioneers of the sport we all love enough to post here about.
ka mate

handsomecake

Stev_o wrote: »

Generally teams that challenge it tend to get their ass handed to them and loose regardless which kinda defeats the whole purpose of challenging it in the first place. Just enjoy it and get on with the game personally i think it's pretty cool would pump me up if i was on the receiving end of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fYIUdVNFgU

****ing great post.

handsomecake

2040 wrote: »

I thought that was a bit silly to be honest. I think the best way to handle the haka is how the Springboks did in the tri-nations. ie. Beat them in the subsequent game of rugby.

who's that at the front in the irish players faces? oh its zac guildford who makes his debut for the senior all blacks against wales this saturday. fair play to him

danthefan

anonymous_joe

I dislike it in all honesty.

It looks cool, I just hate the fact it gives the opposition a free chance to psyche themselves up even more.

Rod McQueen for Australia back in the day used to have the Aussies wear their tracksuits while watching it so they could take a few minutes to change thus wasting that temporary aggression.

2040

handsomecake wrote: »

who's that at the front in the irish players faces? oh its zac guildford who makes his debut for the senior all blacks against wales this saturday. fair play to him

I'm not saying the haka is silly. I love the haka. I think squaring up to them, like the Irish did, is a bit silly. It backfires usually, making it seem even sillier in hindsight.

Podge_irl

2040 wrote: »

I'm not saying the haka is silly. I love the haka. I think squaring up to them, like the Irish did, is a bit silly. It backfires usually, making it seem even sillier in hindsight.

You could equally say not squaring up to it backfires. It just so happens that ABs win 70% of the time, regardless of what the opposition does at the Haka.

corny

If the New Zealanders want to dance thats their business. Whatever makes them tick is fine by me. I do have a problem with making the opposition stand and face it though. Like has been said Campo had the right idea. Continue the warm up and leave them to it.

d'Oracle

handsomecake wrote: »

to not like the haka or the all blacks is tantamount to not liking rugby
its a game england invented.
new zealand mastered it.
they have a population of 4 million (just like us).
world cups aside they whip every ones arses for all of rugby history.
besides sheep this is their biggest export.
they are one of the only countries without a sponsor on their chests.fair enough adidas pay them a princley sum,but dont give me the selling out argument.they could easily have bank of new zealand etc on their chests but they dont.
the haka has been around before anybody posting on this thread was born. its history,its heritage,its culture and it pre dates our appearance on this earth. irelands call was invented and is a shambles and an embarresment compared to the haka.
id cut off my right arm to perform the haka in front of 80000 people and only 1100 all blacks have had the privilage.
"Although the use of a haka by the All Blacks rugby union team has made one type of haka familiar, it has led to misconceptions. Haka[2] are not exclusively war dances, nor are they only performed by men. Some are performed by women, others by mixed groups, and some simple haka are performed by children. Haka are performed for various reasons: for amusement, as a hearty welcome to distinguished guests, or to acknowledge great achievements or occasions (McLean 1996:46-47). War haka (peruperu) were originally performed by warriors before a battle, proclaiming their strength and prowess in order to intimidate the opposition. Today, haka constitute an integral part of formal or official welcome ceremonies for distinguished visitors or foreign dignitaries, serving to impart a sense of the importance of the occasion.
Various actions are employed in the course of a performance, including facial contortions such as showing the whites of the eyes and the poking out of the tongue, and a wide variety of vigorous body actions such as slapping the hands against the body and stamping of the feet. As well as chanted words, a variety of cries and grunts are used. Haka may be understood as a kind of symphony in which the different parts of the body represent many instruments. The hands, arms, legs, feet, voice, eyes, tongue and the body as a whole combine to express courage, annoyance, joy or other feelings relevant to the purpose of the occasion"

jonah lomu was a world wide sports star before david beckham or tiger woods came to prominence.if it wasnt for the allblacks and all that goes with them and everyones perpetual need to beat them where would rugby be?? probably overtaken by other sports.where would we be with out michael schumacher,usain bolt ,brazilian football team,roger federer etc .
have some bloody respect for the pioneers of the sport we all love enough to post here about.
ka mate

Although I don't necessarily disagree with the intimation of this post, I don't know where to start with the amount of nonsense in it.

The amount of erroneous statement is astounding.
Its doesn't even class as opinion, its just mostly wrong.

twinytwo

why would people waste their time complainign about the haka when we cant sing our own national anthem at away games

LeeroyJones

twinytwo wrote: »

why would people waste their time complainign about the haka when we cant sing our own national anthem at away games

+1

That's a far more important issue I believe