Cost for pit silage

John deere 6920

Does anyone know how much money contractors actually get back for cutting 1 acre ar €100 wit diesel at 0.60c a litre? I hear that all the gear wud go thro 30 litre an acre.. I cant see how it adds up thou?


E.g if u bought a sliage harvester for we Say €40000 an old claas jaguar 840. Two tw15's at €10000 each and an 8210 on pit wit buckrake costing another €11000. A mower at €5000 and 3 trailers at around €7000 each ! That = €90000 maybe €100000 for a cushion now u do the sums...


please post=)

fig mclough

€9 an hour?? if only

John deere 6920

Ya €9 an hour if ur good driver €7 if ur **** and if ur only 16-17 u get like €5-6 so its bad enough

paudie2005

John deere 6920 wrote: »

Ya €9 an hour if ur good driver €7 if ur **** and if ur only 16-17 u get like €5-6 so its bad enough

ye're paid by the hour??

John deere 6920

for driving for contractor yea ! its ok ish money like

paudie2005

John deere 6920 wrote: »

for driving for contractor yea ! its ok ish money like

so do ye only get paid for the time ye're pickin grass and dont get paid for traveling from farm to farm?
we always got paid by the day/half day,dont know of many contractors round here that do it by the hour

John deere 6920

paudie2005 wrote: »

so do ye only get paid for the time ye're pickin grass and dont get paid for traveling from farm to farm?
we always got paid by the day/half day,dont know of many contractors round here that do it by the hour

U get paid by the hours u work so if u draw 1 load in 1 hr or 10 loads in the 2nd hour ur still get the normal price!

paudie2005

jezz ye must love long draws so!!

John deere 6920

paudie2005 wrote: »

jezz ye must love long draws so!!

OH we love them altogether... Ur first day drawing silage is the best then u just get more and more sick off it.. but it also depends on the gear too ya know

jigsaw 1

John deere 6920 wrote: »

Ya €9 an hour if ur good driver €7 if ur **** and if ur only 16-17 u get like €5-6 so its bad enough

i got €10 an hour when i was 17. I would tell them where to go if they offered me 5 or 6

vincenzolorenzo

Would defo want to get paid by the hour. If you get paid by the day does a 10 hour day (say 9-7) be the same as a 17 hour day (say 8am-1am)? Both are equally possible depending on weather/time of year etc. Would have to get paid by the hour really. And €5-6 is brutal. Wouldn't even get into a tractor for that TBF

Username John

jigsaw 1 wrote: »

i got €10 an hour when i was 17. I would tell them where to go if they offered me 5 or 6

vincenzolorenzo wrote: »

Would defo want to get paid by the hour. If you get paid by the day does a 10 hour day (say 9-7) be the same as a 17 hour day (say 8am-1am)? Both are equally possible depending on weather/time of year etc. Would have to get paid by the hour really. And €5-6 is brutal. Wouldn't even get into a tractor for that TBF

This is going off topic slightly - but am curious to know what the minimum would be for you to consider working?
It appears 6euro an hour is too low, ok - but 10euro / hour when you're 17 seems high (to me anyways)
Maybe I'm wrong...
I know there is the argument that you are driving maybe 20k or more worth of machinery, and could do a lot of damage, so you have to know what you're at.

Oh - and I'm not a contractor or anything trying to say wages should be very low, I'm just curious what the expectation is...

Thanks.

jigsaw 1

Username John wrote: »

This is going off topic slightly - but am curious to know what the minimum would be for you to consider working?
It appears 6euro an hour is too low, ok - but 10euro / hour when you're 17 seems high (to me anyways)
Maybe I'm wrong...
I know there is the argument that you are driving maybe 20k or more worth of machinery, and could do a lot of damage, so you have to know what you're at.

Oh - and I'm not a contractor or anything trying to say wages should be very low, I'm just curious what the expectation is...

Thanks.

Think about it you may be working 18 or 19 hours a day I know of people that have worked 30 hours straight. Most contractors in my area would pay 10/h one is 7.50/h. It take skill to do the job properly and fast, you are not paid to take it handy and relax. You drive on the tractor or your gone.Most people at this have been around machinery all there life, so they know how to handle it

kfk

jigsaw 1 wrote: »

Think about it you may be working 18 or 19 hours a day I know of people that have worked 30 hours straight. Most contractors in my area would pay 10/h one is 7.50/h. It take skill to do the job properly and fast, you are not paid to take it handy and relax. You drive on the tractor or your gone.Most people at this have been around machinery all there life, so they know how to handle it

30 hours straight! That is crazy stuff, and extremely irresponsible. Contractors around here would start early in the morning and finish late at night but I never heard of a marathon like that.

jigsaw 1

kfk wrote: »

30 hours straight! That is crazy stuff, and extremely irresponsible. Contractors around here would start early in the morning and finish late at night but I never heard of a marathon like that.

It doesnt happen too often just if there is going to be rain and to finish a job

Colmm23

That outfit would return less than 10k picking up 1000 acres which is a huge achievement for an outfit like it. This is without incurring a major breakdown which is likely to be honest if your pushing machines like those to the limit.
Now consider that most contractors would have three times the value of that outfit invested in kit and are not recieving €100 an acre for the work, tell me where's the huge profit farmers think contractors are making.
And another point to consider is the cost of carrying the credit allowed to farmers for six months also, doesn't leave one with much does it??

fastrac

Never mind the ones who wont pay you at all if you pick up customers by undercutting your bound to get a few beauties

John deere 6920

Colmm23 wrote: »

That outfit would return less than 10k picking up 1000 acres which is a huge achievement for an outfit like it. This is without incurring a major breakdown which is likely to be honest if your pushing machines like those to the limit.
Now consider that most contractors would have three times the value of that outfit invested in kit and are not recieving €100 an acre for the work, tell me where's the huge profit farmers think contractors are making.
And another point to consider is the cost of carrying the credit allowed to farmers for six months also, doesn't leave one with much does it??

BUt isnt 1000 acres by 100 hour €100000 ?.. we cut about 110 acres off grass and it costs us about €11000 .. i think thats alot of cash to throw at grass..

Colmm23

John deere 6920 wrote: »

BUt isnt 1000 acres by 100 hour €100000 ?.. we cut about 110 acres off grass and it costs us about €11000 .. i think thats alot of cash to throw at grass..

your sums are correct JD, now subtract your repayments, wages, fuel costs, breakdowns e.t.c and see how much is left over, you will find its less than 10k, not a lot is it when you consider all the drivers get approx 4,000 for driving and you have to deal with all the headaches for not much more reward. 11,000 is not a lot money if the grass is good quality, it is only a lot if it is not best quality grass.

John deere 6920

Colmm23 wrote: »

your sums are correct JD, now subtract your repayments, wages, fuel costs, breakdowns e.t.c and see how much is left over, you will find its less than 10k, not a lot is it when you consider all the drivers get approx 4,000 for driving and you have to deal with all the headaches for not much more reward. 11,000 is not a lot money if the grass is good quality, it is only a lot if it is not best quality grass.

well fuel i know about u burn like 30 litres an acre... Wages is like7-10 euro an hour.. u cud pick up 7-8acres an hour... wat about buying silage harvester into dairy farm that wud nearly be better.? or the gear for the dairy farm no?

John deere 6920

Look right if u do 8 acres an hour right thats €800 ya? and say we have 5 people working for u at thats €45 for all off them.. then diesel at 0.70c a litre and we wud burn like 30-40 litres an acre thats €24.50 an acre costing on fuel. so thats €196 for the 8 acres.. now so 800-196-45=€559 ! NOw thats the basis isnt it so divide 559 by 8 and that equals wat contractors get per acre or a rough guide anyway so 559 /8 =€69.88 an acre they make i think ?

red menace

John deere 6920 wrote: »

Look right if u do 8 acres an hour right thats €800 ya? and say we have 5 people working for u at thats €45 for all off them.. then diesel at 0.70c a litre and we wud burn like 30-40 litres an acre thats €24.50 an acre costing on fuel. so thats €196 for the 8 acres.. now so 800-196-45=€559 ! NOw thats the basis isnt it so divide 559 by 8 and that equals wat contractors get per acre or a rough guide anyway so 559 /8 =€69.88 an acre they make i think ?

Repayments?
Insurance?
Vat?
Depreciation?
Repairs?
Engine Oil etc
set of Knives for harvester

Bear in mind too very few places will pay you going out the gate so you may have overdafts with charges and interest

What do you take as your cut and what do you reinvest?

John deere 6920

red menace wrote: »

Repayments?
Insurance?
Vat?
Depreciation?
Repairs?
Engine Oil etc
set of Knives for harvester

Bear in mind too very few places will pay you going out the gate so you may have overdafts with charges and interest

What do you take as your cut and what do you reinvest?

but u only wud insure ur harvester and loader maybe for that 1-2month so it wud be spread out over a daily basics.. some contractors are vat registered but some arent at all.. depreciation wudnt really affect second hand machinery as compared to brand new gear obviously... repairs cant be accounted for at the start off season... engine oil shud already be in tractors for one... but checking harvester and greasing things.. set of brand new knives costs €2500 at most and other wearin parts.. up to 3000

fig mclough

i think a wagon is more profitable, the lad that does ours says he can do 50 acres a day, €80 acre! 80 x 50 = 4000

lets say €360 (120 e) a day on wages ( dont forget the lad that mowes it) and theres not going to be a young lad driving a big wagon so the € might be more!

4000- 360 = 3640

diesel im unsure, 25 litres mabe??
.70 x 25= 17.5 x 50 = 875

3640-875=2765

€2765 and then as red says insurance nd all that.

if i forgot something add it in

John deere 6920

fig mclough wrote: »

i think a wagon is more profitable, the lad that does ours says he can do 50 acres a day, €80 acre! 80 x 50 = 4000

lets say €360 (120 e) a day on wages ( dont forget the lad that mowes it) and theres not going to be a young lad driving a big wagon so the € might be more!

4000- 360 = 3640

diesel im unsure, 25 litres mabe??
.70 x 25= 17.5 x 50 = 875

3640-875=2765

€2765 and then as red says insurance nd all that.

if i forgot something add it in

I know wagon some job but all our silage long draw 2-3miles to yard.. €80 ? thats really cheap he shud be same as silage harvester.. Ere do u think it be better if a farmer bought a silage harvester and 2 trailers mower and buckrake for tractor.. u wud buy silage harvester for 10-€20000 trailers for less then 5000 each and mower 4000 for decent one. buckrake about 1000.. thats like €31000.. it costs us like €11000 to cut ours..

vincenzolorenzo

Years ago most people used to cut their own silage, and had some if not all of the gear to do it. Lots of farmers went 'in co' with a neighbout and saved money on machinery that way. Over the last 20 years or so we've seen the changeover to contractors. There are a few reasons why thats happened but the biggest one is labour. The vast majority of farmers wouldn't have 4/5/6 men they could call on at short notice to go making silage. Things were different years ago when more people were farming, family members would usually be around too.

So its fairly questionable whether it makes sense for a farmer to invest in silage gear, unless they have the labour on hand. Plus getting a contractor in saves a lot of hassle - no need to worry about maintaining machinery, depreciation, fitting in milking, etc around it. Contractors will also get the job done in a fraction of the time you would with smaller gear and in these years of manky summers thats absolutely invaluable.

John deere 6920

vincenzolorenzo wrote: »

Years ago most people used to cut their own silage, and had some if not all of the gear to do it. Lots of farmers went 'in co' with a neighbout and saved money on machinery that way. Over the last 20 years or so we've seen the changeover to contractors. There are a few reasons why thats happened but the biggest one is labour. The vast majority of farmers wouldn't have 4/5/6 men they could call on at short notice to go making silage. Things were different years ago when more people were farming, family members would usually be around too.

So its fairly questionable whether it makes sense for a farmer to invest in silage gear, unless they have the labour on hand. Plus getting a contractor in saves a lot of hassle - no need to worry about maintaining machinery, depreciation, fitting in milking, etc around it. Contractors will also get the job done in a fraction of the time you would with smaller gear and in these years of manky summers thats absolutely invaluable.

Well now ppl think labour is hard to get cuz they want experiecned drivers. some 16 wud be lucky to get a job wit contractor . well if we invested in silage gear i know about 3-4 ppl wud jump at us to draw it.. but we wudnt pay them. cuz its only fr experience ya see.. u think 110 acres enough to put throught a silage harvester? a john deere 6810 or claas jaguar 695 sl mega harvester

red menace

When I said insurance I more meant Public Liability and employee
What happens when 1 of your 16 year olds puts one of your Tws or 8210s through a house or pulls the the wings off a car or pulls down piers?
Bang goes the profit

red menace

John deere 6920 wrote: »

Well now ppl think labour is hard to get cuz they want experiecned drivers. some 16 wud be lucky to get a job wit contractor . well if we invested in silage gear i know about 3-4 ppl wud jump at us to draw it.. but we wudnt pay them. cuz its only fr experience ya see.. u think 110 acres enough to put throught a silage harvester? a john deere 6810 or claas jaguar 695 sl mega harvester

OMG

John deere 6920

red menace wrote: »

OMG

red manace wat omg about? ya i understand but like i have drawen sliage and its not that hard any sense at all like. ffs

John deere 6920

anyone think it wud be better to just buy silage gear for ourselves and cut our own silage?

red menace

John deere 6920 wrote: »

anyone think it wud be better to just buy silage gear for ourselves and cut our own silage?

How many acres do ye have?
Do ye do a second cut or any maize
Would ye think of buying a baler and a wrapper lot less outlay for yerselves and less hardship?

C0N0R

You would be lucky to get good drivers for a self propelled for €9 an hour, and the same with someone on a loader. A good man on the pit is worth his weight in gold and a bad man is a disaster. Same with mower man to you want someone you can rely on. As for buying all that equiptment to cut your own grass? Do you have three decent tractors sitting about? And if its a 2/3 mile draw 2 trailers wont be up for doing alot. Can you do all the repairs yourself? There are alot of hidden costs involved in making silage that people dont realise.

But if you do decide to go for it good luck with it fellow :cool:

red menace

C0N0R wrote: »

You would be lucky to get good drivers for a self propelled for €9 an hour, and the same with someone on a loader. A good man on the pit is worth his weight in gold and a bad man is a disaster. Same with mower man to you want someone you can rely on. As for buying all that equiptment to cut your own grass? Do you have three decent tractors sitting about? And if its a 2/3 mile draw 2 trailers wont be up for doing alot. Can you do all the repairs yourself? There are alot of hidden costs involved in making silage that people dont realise.

But if you do decide to go for it good luck with it fellow :cool:

Good point Conor

Check out this guy at Grassland, totally at sea with the machine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15MHzP-odeU

A bad man on the pit will ensure your repeat business is pretty low

C0N0R

Now thats what im talking about, especially the bit where he starts spinning on the top of the pit, bad job. A contractor i used to do work for got work purely on the quality of the lad in the loader, he was in a L60E and he could work the pit no end. Best job i seen by a long mile. He lost his licence one year for drink driving so they had to get someone to drive the loader from farm to farm to keep the whole thing sweet. Got some tips off the farmers to, lucky fella

vincenzolorenzo

God he's dire isn't he. you're right though. Pit man is the most important link in the operation

C0N0R

Wouldnt be a job i would be voluntering myself for anyway, some people enjoy it but i reckon i would find it boring as

vincenzolorenzo

Yeah its a very skilful job alright, you wouldn't want any oul eegit doing it. I did a little bit of it in the past alright but I'd definitely prefer drawing in. At least you get to see a bit of the world that way rather than being stuck in a poky yard!

C0N0R

Exactly, love a nice long draw through a couple of towns on a hot summers day, plenty of tidy bits about. Would even rather mow than be on the pit.

Colmm23

John deere 6920 wrote: »

anyone think it wud be better to just buy silage gear for ourselves and cut our own silage?

To be honest, going on what i've read earlier, NO.

Casinoking

To go back to the original post, I think if you go into any bank and say you want to borrow €100,000 to buy a fleet of 20 year old machinery to pick up 100 acres of silage a year with a staff of 16 year olds you're not going to pay, they'll show you the door very quickly.

red menace

If you are looking for a money making enterprise silage isn't the way to go.
The market is pretty much sown up with silage outfits.
I know down where I am from in North Kilkenny there are 6 High output outfits with in 10 miles of each over.These are all well established guys with top notch gear and a loyal customer base. Chance of another outfit surviving past the the 1st year is very slim.

I would look at niche services that no one else is providing and that wont cost a fortune to get in to.

John deere 6920

well i know for fact no way wud we barrow €100000 to buy gear to cut 100 acres but 30-40000 wud buy alot.. we have 2 tractors . zetor9540 and moffett. moffett is a loader its good on pit.. it has put up a few maize pits. we cut about 110 acres of pit silage 11 acres off maize aswell. and ffs the driver on 434s is shocking... even im better on a loader and i hate going on pit.. wtf like

Rujib1

Considering the very good value which can be got in concentrates right now, I am seriously considering just making the bare minimum silage / hay next year and feeding a lot more concentrates!!
€1,000 buys a lot more feed in concentrates than €1,000 spent on fertilizing for silage and paying contractor to harvest it! Plus you would have a lot more ground available for summer grazing, saving further money in pasture fertilizer.

R1

John deere 6920

Rujib1 wrote: »

Considering the very good value which can be got in concentrates right now, I am seriously considering just making the bare minimum silage / hay next year and feeding a lot more concentrates!!
€1,000 buys a lot more feed in concentrates than €1,000 spent on fertilizing for silage and paying contractor to harvest it! Plus you would have a lot more ground available for summer grazing, saving further money in pasture fertilizer.

R1

how do u mean r1??

PMU

he means silage is too expensive at E100 per acre(even E80acre).It is cheaper to buy straw and loose ration and feed to appetite,than make silage at E40tonne(all costs included). your self-propelleds and 4-wheel drive tractors are very nice,but Im not going to pay for them.PMU

reilig

Rujib1 wrote: »

Considering the very good value which can be got in concentrates right now, I am seriously considering just making the bare minimum silage / hay next year and feeding a lot more concentrates!!
€1,000 buys a lot more feed in concentrates than €1,000 spent on fertilizing for silage and paying contractor to harvest it! Plus you would have a lot more ground available for summer grazing, saving further money in pasture fertilizer.

R1

True, but you can be sure that the very year you intend to buy a lot of concentrates, they will double in cost.

John deere 6920

i see how u mean sure.

John deere 6920

Well trailed wud be good too

John deere 6920

John deere 6920 wrote: »

Well trailed wud be good too

anyone ?

vincenzolorenzo

In fairness JD that was more of a statement really, you didn't ask a question. But anyway it just depends on your situation. If you're only cutting around 100 acres a year and want to go at it yourself then trailed is going to be your best option. No point splashing out big money on a self propelled for that acreage. Get a Taarup Ten-X or something similar and you'll horse through it