Winter training.

thebouldwhacker

Hi all,

I'm looking to improve my cycling over the winter and am looking for training programs, there are millions out there so just wondering if anyone would share the love and tell what methods work.

Also not to start a roller vs turbo thread but which do people reckon is better? I know rollers give you better form but I'm tending to go towards turbo just coz it seems more practical, ie allows single leg workout, also is easier to use without the danger of falling:p.
Last year I just kept on cycling with as many hill as possible but I'm looking for something more specific and targeted with identifiable results.

Joining a club isnt an option at the mo so its a solo run. Thanks for all suggestions, I know its a pretty vague post sorry about that:o...

Caroline_ie

I just came across this site Turbo sessions with sounds and alerts to change cadence etc ...

Lumen

How many hours are week do you have, and what are your specific objectives for next year?

Do you want to be able to cycle 300km in a day, complete a 100km sportive in under 3 hours, or win races?

thebouldwhacker

Cheers Caroline,

@ Lumen, I have a good bit of time so that really isnt an issue. What to aim for.. there in lies to problem. I am looking to improve my long distance time and performance. I have a few ideas in mind for 2010/2011 which will be shaped by how successful this winter is so probably having 200k as an ideal distance would be a good target.

Diarmuid

I think creating hard targets is the very first step you need to do, be realistic. Say something like 40k in 65mins or be able to cycle 200k. You should know where you are in relation to that target at the moment but still no harm in testing yourself. Once you have those two points I guess you can start to build a plan.

I found that if you start with the aim, "I want to get faster" well it's so vague that it's harder to motivate yourself to reach it (mainly because you can reach that target immediately)

Murph100

There are a good few on the Tacx website and also some the the Tacx forum.


Diarmuid is spot on about planning though, I went got the Cyclists Bible which he recommended ages back, and it completely changed the way I look at training, essential reading ... GET IT !!!


Anyways a few laps of Seskin / Vaughan's Pass / Ropewalk will give you a great workout !!!

Lumen

thebouldwhacker wrote: »

I am looking to improve my long distance time and performance...having 200k as an ideal distance would be a good target

There are two ways to approach this - aim to go faster and hope the distance gets easier, or get the distance in and hope the speed comes with it. IMO the first approach will lead to failure - you can't shortcut endurance training and if you try to do distance and speed at the same time you'll end up with an overuse injury or chronic fatigue. Speed is much quicker to build; you can focus on that in the spring/summer. You can't do everything.

I have similar objectives for this winter, at least until January (this is my second winter of cycling since I got back on the bike after over 10 years off).

My current (very personal) plan...

Starting from a current base of commuting 150km a week, add in one weekend 100km ride to get me back up to around 250km/week. I'll do that until Christmas, then start extending the commute by a 20km or so a couple of times a week to get me to around 300km/week.

In February I'll drop the commuting back down and add in some hill repeats.

That's the plan right now, if I can stay healthy and avoid injury. I should probably be aiming for 150+km training rides at some point, but I don't have the time. If I had the time I'd just do 3 long rides a week and spend the rest of the time in the gym, pool or with my feet up.

I don't own a turbo, I cycle to get out of the house.

All this is in my extremely inexperienced opinion, based on the training regimes of better cyclists than myself.

thebouldwhacker

Its more a means to an end tbh, I'm aiming at 200km as that will cover all my needs. I'm hoping to get involved in more duo/triathlon types of events over the next few years, perhaps a bit of marathon running etc etc etc. Who knows where it'll go, its all planning at the mo.

Re speed/distance I'm of the same school as you Lumen, I always go distance first and pick up my times from that, its worked so far. Plenty of hills and hard slog but tbh the roads around here really arnt made of cycling in the dark, its scary enough driving them, hence the turbo idea:( I wouldn't be a fan of static machines but if its gotta be done so be it. I'm working on my running too which I can do in any weather or season so I'm not gonna be stuck inside all the time

Today really is a bad day to be planning all this though, is so bad outside only good option includes a tv, dvd and sitting down but that kinda thinking isnt gonna make me king of the world:p

biker_joe

Ladz and Lassies,
Make sure that you reduce you work load every 4th week ... to rest/recover and adapt !

I will be doing a 3 month Base, Nov, Dec, Jan ....
4 week blocks
..... 1st week 8hrs , 2nd week 10 hrs 3rd week 12hrs 4TH week 6-8 hrs .....
the 2nd Block or Month I wlll increase the hrs and same will 3rd block...

Did the same last year, and was fresh when the season started and not F ucke d !

Biker Joe

oh and 1st 6 weeks mainly in Zone 1 and Zone 2 of Hr ... i.e not going over 160 in my case
the 2nd 6 weeks will enter some tempo riding in Zone 3....

DirkVoodoo

biker_joe wrote: »

Ladz and Lassies,
Make sure that you reduce you work load every 4th week ... to rest/recover and adapt !

I will be doing a 3 month Base, Nov, Dec, Jan ....
4 week blocks
..... 1st week 8hrs , 2nd week 10 hrs 3rd week 12hrs 4TH week 6-8 hrs .....
the 2nd Block or Month I wlll increase the hrs and same will 3rd block...

Did the same last year, and was fresh when the season started and not F ucke d !

Biker Joe

Could you elaborate more on the base training? Is it just heading out and doing steady kilometres to build up aerobic fitness?

Sorry for the questions, this training is new to me and I don't want to fudge it up, I was hoping Lumen's (the godfather of HTFU) plan would be a bit more hardcore, but I have been left a little underwhelmed

Lumen

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

I was hoping Lumen's (the godfather of HTFU) plan would be a bit more hardcore, but I have been left a little underwhelmed

LOL. ScottReynolds is the godfather of HTFU. I'm trying to emulate his training from last winter, scaled down a bit.

biker_joe

yea, no probs, I think I was editing my post when you replied

So the Base is an Endurance Base, where Steady miles are done, riding in
those two HR zones, Zone 1 and Zone ( these are slightly different for
everyone ) Also, speed wise, I'll be keepin it between 16 - 18 mph ... for
average of 17 mph is fine for me ... at those Heart Rates, my zone Zone 1 is roughly 130 - 145, in this zone you predominantly burn fat ... and Zone 2 is where you build you Endurance, this is 145 - 160ish for me.

Towards the end of the last block, i.e. the last 4 weeks I start to do some Tempo rides during the week, Tempo is considered to be Zone 3, 160 - 175 HR in my case, this is a higher cadence than for Zone 1 and 2, usually about 20 -23 Mph in my case, 1st week I might start with 5mins and add 5mins each week... until at the end I can do 25 - 30mins in this Zone....

This Means that in your BUILD period you can start doing harder rides and interval training with out killing or over stretching yourself !! When you start doing this after a good BASE you should find that you are Able for it !
The Build Period is a different Ball game, and it is where you add SPEED, STRENGHT, MUSULAR ENDURANCE to the mix !! Or What Abilities you feel you need to work on .... Because all things considered, we are all slightly different !!!


Biker Joe.

DirkVoodoo

Lumen wrote: »

LOL. ScottReynolds is the godfather of HTFU. I'm trying to emulate his training from last winter, scaled down a bit.

That is true, you can be the fairy godmother.

thebouldwhacker

HTFU.... not a bad name for a training log

Caroline_ie

@biker_joe -> Do you do much on the turbo?

redmaxi

Diarmuid wrote: »

Say something like 40k in 65mins quote]
Too rich for me at 37 kmph avg. Are there a lot of people on here capable of this on rolling Irish roads ? :eek:.

Phil Cassidy advice to a novice racer:


"I would do a 60mile spin on the Tuesday at a hard steady pace
53x17 average 19-20mph on rolling roads. Do nothing on Wednesday.
Thursday 40-50 miles 42x16 easy. Do nothing on Friday.
Make sure you get plenty of bed rest all this week 9,30 bed time.
A start eating plenty of carbohydrates for the three days before
the first stage (carbo drinks are also very effective). Be sure to d

rink at least 2 litres of water every day. Regards and best of luck

at the weekend. Regards - Philip Cassidy.

ryan_sherlock

I'm probably going to to be only working parttime next year so I may have time to coach a few more people - if people are interested, PM me. Mel and I are good examples of the progress my coaching philosophy brings about.

(This time two years ago Mel was overweight [relative to cycling] and unfit - she is currently ranked 78th XC female in the World - she also finished 28th in the World Marathon Champs 8 months after I started coaching her)

blorg

To be honest I imagine the turbo is going to define the sort of work you can do on it. If what you are aiming for is just to be able to cycle 200km without dying (presumably from a lower base now) then you principally need the miles in your legs without being too concerned (or indeed concerned at all) about the speed. But I don't think there will be a lot of people who report back that they are able to do long slow cycles on a turbo without dying of boredom. The thing is really more suited to more intense efforts.

So you really need the long slow stuff out on the road. A couple of years ago I would get up a bit before dawn and get a long hilly cycle in before work. I'd also go out for a shorter spin at lunchtime. This let me get a good amount of cycling done in daylight.

More recently I have been going out with good lights. Honestly with good lights you are if anything MORE visible than you are during the day. Basically there are no other visual distractions and you are effectively the only thing to be seen. I find drivers pass much wider (and slower) at night than during the day.

Lumen's weekly figures are quite high and completely unnecessary IMHO for someone looking to just do the likes of the Wicklow 200. Nothing necessarily wrong with cycling that distance but I wouldn't look at a 250km rising to 300km weekly winter average as in any way necessary and indeed probably inadvisable if you are not already cycling a lot.

ryan_sherlock

redmaxi wrote: »

Too rich for me at 37 kmph avg. Are there a lot of people on here capable of this on rolling Irish roads ? :eek:.

On a loop (i.e. no tailwind the whole way) on rolling roads it is possible - but I would be really drilling it to get a 37kmph+ average on a 60km+ spin.

Most road races I do I average around 40+ - but that is in a peleton!

alfalad

ryan_sherlock wrote: »

(This time two years ago Mel was overweight

I really hope she doesn't read this post for your sake!

Diarmuid

redmaxi wrote: »

Diarmuid wrote: »

Say something like 40k in 65mins

Too rich for me at 37 kmph avg. Are there a lot of people on here capable of this on rolling Irish roads ? :eek:.

I was just throwing in some figures, for illustration purposes...

Lumen

Diarmuid wrote: »

Say something like 40k in 65mins

redmaxi wrote: »

Too rich for me at 37 kmph avg. Are there a lot of people on here capable of this on rolling Irish roads ?

As I read it, that was in reference to event targets, not training pace.

Example category standards for a 25mile TT from Dublin Wheelers club league:

A 1:00:00
B 1:02:00
C 1:04:00
NR 1:12:00
V 1:08:00
L 1:15:00

(where you needed to exceed your category time to score more than minimum points)

So 1:05 is not even Category C standard

Lumen

thebouldwhacker wrote: »

I am looking to improve my long distance time and performance...probably having 200k as an ideal distance would be a good target.

blorg wrote: »

Lumen's weekly figures are quite high and completely unnecessary IMHO for someone looking to just do the likes of the Wicklow 200. Nothing necessarily wrong with cycling that distance but I wouldn't look at a 250km rising to 300km weekly winter average as in any way necessary and indeed probably inadvisable if you are not already cycling a lot.

Depends whether you want to just finish the WW200 or enjoy it. If you were training for a marathon you'd be working your way to 20 mile (75% distance) training runs, if you're training properly for the WW200 you should be working up to hilly 150km (75% distance) training spins.

150km once a week only leaves 2-3 shorter 40km spins (or 3-4 days commuting in my case) before you're knocking on the door of 250km a week. Alternatively, 2 x 60km + a 120km weekend spin leaves room for at one of two rest days after each ride.

So no, I don't think 250km a week is an excessive target for someone aiming to build endurance with the intention of enjoying the longer sportives in 2010 (and who might want to cut back on distance and focus on speed work once Spring comes).

Obviously the usual caveats about building up slowly apply.

Still, if you want an expert opinion get a coach (above, for instance).

blorg

It is higher than necessary for over the winter. You would certainly want to be working up to those sort of distances in the spring. I don't do those sort of averages myself in winter (or didn't before) and I consider that I cycle quite a bit more than the average!

Calculate it out yourself, 250km*52=13,000km, 300km*52=15,600km. -and presumably you would be doing more in the summer. Those are very high numbers on any standard.

Training for your fist marathon you will not be doing 20 mile runs over the winter 7 months out from it.

BaBiT

Caroline_ie wrote: »

I just came across this site Turbo sessions with sounds and alerts to change cadence etc ...

Excellent site Caroline!...Cheers for putting up the links...Only problem is that I can see after a winter using the site I'll be better on the bike but probably have turned into a trance music fan :eek: Not good for a stuffy old Jazz fan like myself:cool:

biker_joe

Caroline_ie wrote: »

@biker_joe -> Do you do much on the turbo?

I try not to, not that I am against them, find them very boring .......even watching TV !! I much prefer to get out, no matter what the weather, you have to race in the crap weather too !!
I will use a trainer maybe once a week on a Sunday evening or Monday for
20 mins with no load spinining the legs to help recovery, but this does n't work for all poeple...

But for those interested in racing, i would recommend getting a coach, and that way you can get a plan to meet your needs, some of us need to work more some areas and focus less on others, a coach will help you SEE this ..
Biker Joe

emtroche

Too rich for me at 37 kmph avg. Are there a lot of people on here capable of this on rolling Irish roads ? :eek:.

Phil Cassidy advice to a novice racer:


"I would do a 60mile spin on the Tuesday at a hard steady pace
53x17 average 19-20mph on rolling roads. Do nothing on Wednesday.
Thursday 40-50 miles 42x16 easy. Do nothing on Friday.
Make sure you get plenty of bed rest all this week 9,30 bed time.
A start eating plenty of carbohydrates for the three days before
the first stage (carbo drinks are also very effective). Be sure to d

rink at least 2 litres of water every day. Regards and best of luck

at the weekend. Regards - Philip Cassidy.

[/QUOTE]
This sounds like advice for the week before the ras or sum kinda stage race so it wouldnt pay too much heed to it as regards winter training.

Bikerbhoy

I bought a couple of ebooks yesterday from that bikerider.com website ,one being off season training for roadies and another good one pros tips for roadies,If anyone would care for a copy PM your email address and I will gladly send you on a copy of each.

Cheers

Lumen

blorg wrote: »

Calculate it out yourself, 250km*52=13,000km, 300km*52=15,600km. -and presumably you would be doing more in the summer.

No, less distance in the summer, more intensity.

If winter is about long and slow, and summer is about hammerfests, then you can't do more distance in the summer, or else you'd never get any time to recover and you'd burn out by June.

The point of winter training (as I understand it) is to get the distance done when you don't have racing to recover for. If you don't do the distance in the winter, and don't do it in the summer either, you'll never build any endurance.

Your year seems to be structured around doing mega distances and racing in the summer, and relatively bugger all in the winter. This doesn't make any sense to me.

I must be missing something.

blorg

It is basically impossible to do less distance in the summer, between cycling out to a single club league race and doing the race you are well over 100km and that is a weekday night. Throw in open races which are longer at the weekends (some will race both Saturday and Sunday), sportives, multi-stage events, touring or whatever else if you do that, commuting etc.

Do you honestly think you will be spending LESS time on a bike in the summer?

Anyway, the OP was not asking about racing but getting around a 200km sportive comfortably. Not necessary to do that sort of mileage to prepare for that. Note I am not saying don't do it to you, I am just saying it is not necessary for the OP's goals and sounds like overkill for someone just starting out.

I don't think I know anyone who actually rides most of their yearly mileage in the winter. I think you are missing something! Seriously, I think you have taken it up wrong, think about it for a second. In summer the weather is nice and warm and it is actually nice to cycle around on a bike.

Lumen

blorg wrote: »

It is basically impossible to do less distance in the summer, between cycling out to a single club league race and doing the race you are well over 100km and that is a weekday night.

I'll drive to races and get the train to work.

blorg wrote: »

think about it for a second. In summer the weather is nice and warm and it is actually nice to cycle around on a bike.

Pah. You'll never win anything with that attitude.

Oh, wait...

niceonetom

Between this thread and the winter intervals swords debacle I am thoroughly confuddled.

velo.2010

To thebouldwhacker. If your not going to join a club but seriously want to give it a good go next year then I suggest getting a test of some sort done to at least work out a suitible programme of action over the few months.

It could be a full-on VO2max test or a general fitness test in a gym with specific attention to cycling/aerobic fitness. The guys doing your VO2max wont be your trainers but can give you the ranges/thresholds in which to train specific to the results of the test.

Lumen

niceonetom wrote: »

Between this thread and the winter intervals swords debacle I am thoroughly confuddled.

You want graphs?

Here's one, from here (which is from here).

Hunter Allen wrote:

This is a comprehensive 12 week winter training plan for the cyclist, triathlete or Mt. Biker that uses a power meter or a trainer that shows watts, and has a threshold of about 200 watts. You can train from 8-12 hours a week and you have been riding for at least a year(this could be your first 'off-season').

8-12 hours a week. In fairness, that does include a lot of off the bike faffing in gyms and the suchlike, but there's still 8.5 hours on the bike.

blorg

@Lumen- you need to warm up and cool down for races, if the ride out is under 35km or so cycling out to them makes more sense. Honestly I don't know anyone who actually does most of their yearly mileage in the winter.

Lumen

blorg wrote: »

@Lumen- you need to warm up and cool down for races, if the ride out is under 35km or so cycling out to them makes more sense. Honestly I don't know anyone who actually does most of their yearly mileage in the winter.

Fair enough. I just reviewed some stuff and it looks like much of the recommendations for winter focus on off-the-bike stuff, which confuses the issue further. Jacuzzis FTW.

Anyway, theory aside the best "zero to hero" story I know is Scott's TOI prep, and that involved mega miles all winter. Unless I misunderstood his training regime.

niceonetom

Compromise:
More hours during winter and more distance in the summer. Both are possible due to speed difference. Everyone happy?

blorg

Lumen wrote: »

Anyway, theory aside the best "zero to hero" story I know is Scott's TOI prep, and that involved mega miles all winter. Unless I misunderstood his training regime.

That involved building incrementally up a 1,000km stage event he planned doing in April. If that is your target that is pretty much what you have to do.

Note I am not saying I think 250/300km a week in winter is nuts, indeed I will probably be around that this winter myself, it is just utterly unnecessary for the OP's goal. In addition I couldn't see myself doing less mileage in the summer and I don't think most riders will.

ROK ON

The OP needs ro HTFU. Scott is the maestro. All this talk of base training, resting every 4 weeks. This just smacks of weakness.

Put your shorts on. Slap on some belgium knee warmers and get on the bike.

Ask yourself, what would Scott do.

Btw, I spent this morning in the jacuzzi and steam room.

DirkVoodoo

I have to say I am enjoying Blorg and Lumen duke it out over absolutely nothing. I think Biker Joe's winter training plan (for racing) was top notch!

Short answer: Commuting every day and doing a little spin (~100km) at the weekend will make events like the W200 a piece of cake. Do you like cake?

The hardest part is getting your eating/drinking habits right. If you can manage to build a good routine on the longer cycles of topping up a little and often, you could go all day. Anytime I have struggled on a long spin has pretty much been because I have fudged up my "refueling".

Bikerbhoy

ok folks anyone who requested copy of ebooks check your email should be there now , any probs let me know

Cheers

niceonetom

biker_joe wrote: »

I will be doing a 3 month Base, Nov, Dec, Jan ....
4 week blocks
..... 1st week 8hrs , 2nd week 10 hrs 3rd week 12hrs 4TH week 6-8 hrs .....
the 2nd Block or Month I wlll increase the hrs and same will 3rd block...
...
oh and 1st 6 weeks mainly in Zone 1 and Zone 2 of Hr ... i.e not going over 160 in my case
the 2nd 6 weeks will enter some tempo riding in Zone 3....

Thanks for posting that biker_j. I'm still a relative novice at this so I don't have a feel for what really works for me yet. I know what feels good, but that's not necessarily the same thing as what gets results. This winter could be an opportunity to be my own guinea pig.

How important is it, in your opinion, to avoid going up into zone 3 or above during the first half of that kind of program? Is it necessary to avoid serious exertion altogether?

I ask because I am generally inclined to work a bit harder than Zone1 or 2 at least for portions of any spin I go on, and if it starts going uphill I usually let my heart rate go up to the 160s and stay there. If I have to be really really disciplined and not above, say, 160 it could make group spins problematic.

"I have to stay in Zone2!!!" sounds like a really weak excuse if someone thinks they've dropped you...

biker_joe

niceonetom wrote: »

Thanks for posting that biker_j. I'm still a relative novice at this so I don't have a feel for what really works for me yet. I know what feels good, but that's not necessarily the same thing as what gets results. This winter could be an opportunity to be my own guinea pig.

How important is it, in your opinion, to avoid going up into zone 3 or above during the first half of that kind of program? Is it necessary to avoid serious exertion altogether?

I ask because I am generally inclined to work a bit harder than Zone1 or 2 at least for portions of any spin I go on, and if it starts going uphill I usually let my heart rate go up to the 160s and stay there. If I have to be really really disciplined and not above, say, 160 it could make group spins problematic.

"I have to stay in Zone2!!!" sounds like a really weak excuse if someone thinks they've dropped you...

it's not going to hinder you if you enter Zone 3 at times, it just a you are not targetting this zone, ie don't stay in it when you don't have to. The Group spin, while social and good criac, is not always good for you're training, exactly for the reason you mention, some groups too fast and some groups will be too slow ! Ideally 3-4 people of similar ability for a group spin I think is ideal ...

During these months, use your group spin wisely... if you know you are going out with group thats not doing enough, do an hour or so before or after you met, and if you are out with a group that doing much or going too fast for what you need, then turn off by youself and do your own thing .... oh and i will get slated for this I know ! I usually aviod South Dublin and Wicklow until my Base is 90% complete ! Thus avioding the higher zones !

hope this helps

Biker Joe

Ryder

Just finnished 'time crunched cyclist' by chris carmichael. Advises a high intensity program to build power and endurance. Seems a bit counter intuitive to the traditional cycling plan but gels with research from a lot of other sports. With limited time hope it will work for me.

biker_joe

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

I have to say I am enjoying Blorg and Lumen duke it out over absolutely nothing. I think Biker Joe's winter training plan (for racing) was top notch!

Short answer: Commuting every day and doing a little spin (~100km) at the weekend will make events like the W200 a piece of cake. Do you like cake?

The hardest part is getting your eating/drinking habits right. If you can manage to build a good routine on the longer cycles of topping up a little and often, you could go all day. Anytime I have struggled on a long spin has pretty much been because I have fudged up my "refueling".

Tks Dirk,
I have read a few books in my time, and train with a guy who is a Sport Sciencist. But the answers are out there, there are lots good coaches out there too in Ireland which I have looked after me from time to time, and also read some of the popular guys, Charmichael and Freil.

and you might want to consider your pre-fueling ! My Winter Diet is Ready Brek and Winter Training Formula from All Sports International in the UK ...
never have bonked...

Biker Joe

niceonetom

Ok, so going over 160 isn't the kiss of death, it's just not the goal, and not the point of the ride. That clears that up a bit for me. I'll have to develop some discipline with the effort level.

biker_joe wrote: »

I usually aviod South Dublin and Wicklow until my Base is 90% complete !

Ah, right. That's what I was getting at really. Boards spins and orwell spins both head straight out south and there's always a competitive edge with some folks (like me) when there's a gradient involved. It almost feels like you've given me an excuse to slack off. Thanks again Joe!

MadHatter

@biker_joe - is that training plan based on Joe Friel's book? I've his triathlon bible book and it's pretty the same.

The base training stuff is important as it's primarily about building aerobic fitness, training the body to burn fat as a fuel, and getting the muscles & nerves "firing" efficiently. It's also recommended you work on your technique (e.g. one legged pedaling - although I appreciate not everyone sees the benefit in this). Base is primarly Zone 1 & 2 but you get to touch on Zone 3 stuff from about 6 weeks in before introducing longer Zone 3 rides (tempo) after 8 weeks.

The key point about this sort of plan is that you are working towards a specific event (or events several if close together) for which you will peak. Afterwards, you need to return to Base training again to rebuild the aerobic endurance you will have lost during the Build and Peak. The underlying theory is that you cannot peak early, say May, and maintain this peak form until end of season, say September. You have to drop down from the peak and rebuild for another to avoid overtraining & burnout.

In terms of training, it requires discipline above all else. Base training is generally done at easy enough pace on flat to rolling terrain (Meath & Kildare are good for flat, North Dublin for rolling!) - the long, hilly cycles in Wicklow have no place in base training. Also, you need to stick to your zones, so riding with others can cause problems (too slow, too fast, too many stops). Effectively, unless you can find another rider at a similar level and planning to peak at the same time, you'll need to do a lot of training on your own. And no commuter racing either!

The 3 weeks hard, 1 week easy is good advice. Fatigue builds up quickly during the 3 weeks whereas fitness builds more slowly. The one week rest allows fatigue to drop back a lot whereas fitness will be steady or drop just a little. But it's this one week where the body rebuilds itself and the real gains are made, as well as injuries prevented.

Also, if you have a heart rate monitor you can use use the Training Load plugin in SportTracks to record your workouts and get a graphical representation of fatigue and form over time - visualising makes it easier to understand.

Lumen

niceonetom wrote: »

Ah, right. That's what I was getting at really. Boards spins and orwell spins both head straight out south and there's always a competitive edge with some folks (like me) when there's a gradient involved. It almost feels like you've given me an excuse to slack off. Thanks again Joe!

The boards spins I've been on start off with comically unsustainable climbing rates (300-400W+) until a few people have emptied their tanks a bit, then the pace eases back to just mildly unsustainable until the weakest person bonks, then it drops back to a nice endurance pace with the odd bit of tempo.

Ryder

Im definately never going on a boards spin so.

Lumen

Ryder wrote: »

I'm definately never going on a boards spin so.

God no, they're great fun. Really!

blorg

Lumen wrote: »

The boards spins I've been on start off with comically unsustainable climbing rates (300-400W+) until a few people have emptied their tanks a bit, then the pace eases back to just mildly unsustainable until the weakest person bonks, then it drops back to a nice endurance pace with the odd bit of tempo.

I agree, I think we need to up the pace on them a bit.