Rotterdam 2010 sub 2.50

heffsarmy

I never considered keeping a training log, but since I have signed up for Rotterdam 2010, I need something to keep me focused on training and any input from other runners is always welcome. I was never into running as a youth, played hurling mostly but gave that up in my early 20's. I never thought I would enjoy running, but the brother in law is a runner and he got me out for a few short runs around november 2007, they nearly killed me, but I enjoyed it. I then signed up for the Hamburg marathon 2008 a few months later, which I finished in 3.14. I rewarded myself with a bike after the marathon and started to do some cycling, I did'nt really do much running after the Hamburg marathon, just enough miles to the beer belly away.
This year I started to run again were I done the Connemarathon half 1.22, Achill half 1.23 and Edinburgh marathon 2.58. I did'nt have a good run in Ediburgh as my quads were sore from training and I ran the marathon overdosed on painkillers!!! Did'nt do much running after achill, about 10miles a week average. I was doing loads of cycling though. I done my first 10km a few weeks ago in Blessington 36.18, I really enjoyed it. I went out to support the brother in law last monday at the Dublin marathon and got the marathon bug again, so a few days later I signed up for the Rotterdam marathon with a mate of mine.
I bought a book, 'Daniels Running Formula' which I'm going to follow his marathon program, 23 weeks from 2day, I'll peak at around 65 - 70miles...I've tailored the program were I will run 5 days a week, some days I will run twice a day. I just joined a tri club and I will be going on the long cycle every sunday with them. I plan to do a few triathlons after Rotterdam to keep me focused. This will be my first real marathon program. I know its early days for setting a time but I'm going to aim for sub 2.50, so I'm going base my marathon pace runs at this pace. Anyway enough waffle, I'll be heading out for an easy 7miler this evening to get things started.

Woddle

Hi heff, best of luck with the log and goals, I'll be keeping up to date on this as we have a common interest in Rotterdam, JDs book is a good read but the only thing I would say is you should be doing your training at your current race pace not what you hope to achieve and JD has a nice Vdot table for this.

metamorphosis

I am also doing Rotterdam. Looking around at programs at the moment to see what i like the look of.

Some nice times there. Like you, i never ran growing up(or any exercise until i went to college)!! Pretty hooked now.

Best of luck with the log.

heffsarmy

Thanks woddle and ULStudent I hope it goes to plan. The Daniels running gets a bit scientific for me though, his training plans are pretty simple to follow. I feel with a proper marathon program and I get no injuries, 2.50 should be in my grasp, time will tell

dermCu

Best of luck Heff. I'll be very interested to see how your training goes.
Considering your previous times its well within your grasp.

Dermot

heffsarmy

Thanks Dermot, I'm doing the aware 10km in a few weeks, it will give me a good idea if I'm headin in the right direction...I found this link to set up the advanced marathon plans by Pete Pfitzingers, handy for printing out.

http://www.roadtoboston.com/djapps/trainingPlans/viewPlan/4/

Slogger Jogger

Challenging target heff, best of luck with it.

village runner

heffsarmy wrote: »

Thanks woddle and ULStudent I hope it goes to plan. The Daniels running gets a bit scientific for me though, his training plans are pretty simple to follow. I feel with a proper marathon program and I get no injuries, 2.50 should be in my grasp, time will tell

Aim high and put hte time out there. No point in saying 2.55 when you are aiming for sub 2.50.
Best of luck and i will follow this log closely. When you get under 2.50 you will be classed as a very good club runner.

misty floyd

Cool, going to keep an eye on this log heffsarmy. I'm probably going to go with Daniels for Rotterdam myself. Best of luck.

Abhainn

Good man, best of luck. BIg jump from 3:14 to 2:58 in a year. If you focus well sub 2:50 should be easily within your reach

heffsarmy

Thanks lads for the comments, its going to be a challenge, but one I'm looking forward too. I kick started things last night with an easy 7miler in the phoneix park, average pace 7.10. This was my first run in the dark for a while, it was a nice evening for running. Abhainn congrats on your great result in Dublin marathon.

heffsarmy

I done just over 8miles tues night avg pace 7.07 weather was'nt too bad. Done over 5miles last night avg pace 7.08, weather was crap, wind howling and peeing rain, feet were soaking when I got home. I'm gonna have to sort out a new pair off runners as the ones I train in have holes in the soles of them, not sure why they make them like this, Saucony Grid Fastwitch 3.

Peckham

Will be watching this log with interest. Are you following any particular schedule between now and when your Rotterdam training plan kicks off?

TheRoadRunner

Best of luck Heff, you are obviously a talented lad. With the right training you will blow 2.50 out of the water.

Did you follow a training plan for your last marathon ?

Also what made you decide to go with the Daniels book? I personally think those plans are a pile of ****e. And I am talking about the majority of these one fit all programs not just Daniels. They are probably ok for novices but you would be better off with a personalised plan especially seen as you seem to have plenty of talent.

Best of luck anyway.

Peckham

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

you would be better off with a personalised plan especially seen as you seem to have plenty of talent.

Yes, but unless you're heavily involved in a club, where do you get one of these plans? Can only really think of the services that the likes of Greg McMillan provide with personalised plans, but these are pricey and would question the added-value over a "one size fits all" plan.

TheRoadRunner

Peckham wrote: »

Yes, but unless you're heavily involved in a club, where do you get one of these plans? Can only really think of the services that the likes of Greg McMillan provide with personalised plans, but these are pricey and would question the added-value over a "one size fits all" plan.

In my opinion if you have ran a couple of marathons like heff has you should know what works and what doesn't work for you. Don't have to be heavily involved in a club for that. I think some of those plans are too rigid and in some cases absolute pants.

Just my opinion. If they work for you then keep to them. I was in bad form yesterday so may have been a bit grumpy.

dermCu

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

In my opinion if you have ran a couple of marathons like heff has you should know what works and what doesn't work for you. Don't have to be heavily involved in a club for that. I think some of those plans are too rigid and in some cases absolute pants.

Just my opinion. If they work for you then keep to them. I was in bad form yesterday so may have been a bit grumpy.

I agree with the sentiment but I think you picked the wrong target with Daniels. His plan(in his running formula book) makes a clear distinction between phases and he only outlines specific workouts. You decide what total milage is best, he just tells you what fraction of of peak milage each week should be. Its more adaptable than any other plan I've seen.

A lot of other plans are poorly thought-out rubbish but this is one of the few that look good to me.

heffsarmy

Last night was a write off, ended up drinking 3 bottles of wine with the wife I'll get out this evening to clear the head.

Anyways to answer to a few question, Peckham I have started the daniels running formula plan monday gone which is basically base building phase, 5 weeks off easy running to get the mileage up, throw in a few strides at the end of 2 or 3 runs each week, nothing too wild, although I found myself wanting to run alot fast the other night, might throw in a few small tempo runs to keep me happy

TheRoadRunner my last marathon I used Halhigdons marathon program as a guide, I would'nt know if it was good or not, although my legs were knackered come the race so maybe it was crap . The reason I choose the daniels plan is because I heard his plans were good. I would'nt have the experience to set up my own plan, although as you say I have an idea on what to do and what not. As dermCU pointed out there is alot of flexabilty in the daniels plan and he only tells you what to do in the quality works outs. Anyways I will have to knock this midweek wine sampling on the head!

heffsarmy

Friday evening done a 5miler avg 7.29pace. Satuday morning done 11miles avg 7.01 pace, really enjoyed the run, took it handy for most of the run. The last 3miles, I picked up the pace too 6.20, then the last mile finished 5.32 pace, felt strong after the run. Ended up going for a few pints saturday lunchtime, turned into an all day and night session, was in a heap this morning going out for a cycle with the tri club. It was a lovely day for cycling, glad I dragged myself out off bed, just done under a 3hour cycle, the pace was nice and handy though.

village runner

heffsarmy wrote: »

Friday evening done a 5miler avg 7.29pace. Satuday morning done 11miles avg 7.01 pace, really enjoyed the run, took it handy for most of the run. The last 3miles, I picked up the pace too 6.20, then the last mile finished 5.32 pace, felt strong after the run. Ended up going for a few pints saturday lunchtime, turned into an all day and night session, was in a heap this morning going out for a cycle with the tri club. It was a lovely day for cycling, glad I dragged myself out off bed, just done under a 3hour cycle, the pace was nice and handy though.

You will def break 2.50 with weekends like that.
Good run sat though.

heffsarmy

You need a blow out no and again village runner . Runs so far are easy pace, all around 7.10min/mile pace...monday done 8 miles, tuesday done 5 and this morning done 7 miles. I'll have to squeeze in the longish run on friday, as I'm going out friday night and not sure what shape I'll be in on saturday. I hope to get some sort off run in satruday, I'll see how it goes.

heffsarmy

Done handy 4 miles yesterday 7.10pace. This morning done 12miles 6.49pace, enjoyed the run today weather was perfect for running not too cold not too warm and no wind, started off easy for the first 6miles then I gradually picked up the pace finishing with a 5.35min/mile. Not sure I'll be able to run tommorow as I'm headin out 2night.

Gebby

Hey Heff, I too registered for Rotterdam yesterday. Really looking forward to it as this will be my 2nd marathon after Dublin this year. Obviously I have got the bug.

Just wondering about flights there does'nt appear to be direct flights from Ireland? How are you flying or whats the best route.

For the record I used Daniels for my first marathon and really found it good the T workouts were perfect and prepared me big time for the day.

Good Luck with the training.

heffsarmy

Hello Gebby, I have'nt booked any flights yet, but I'll either fly into Amsterdam or Eindhoven and get the train down. Are you going to use Daneils program for your second marathon? I'm looking forward to doing the quality workouts. I did'nt get any running in the weekend, I missed the cycle with the tri club as I was called into work. Went out in the afternoon, done over 3hours average pace 33.8kmph. Monday started off with a 7miler easy pace. This morning done a 5miler and plan to get this afternoon with a 6 or 7miler all easy pace. My right calf is a bit tight, will have to start doing some streches.

Gebby

Looks like Ryanair from Eindhoven is cheapest 45 euro, need to get a bus to the Train Station from the Airport though. Where as with Amsterdam the train station is in the Airport...decisions descisions.

I plan to use Daniels again for sure. I think his plans make alot of sense with a lot of focus on Thresold /Tempo running in the latter weeks.

I ran negative splits in Dublin of this program with the second half almost 2.5 min faster. I think I had the legs for this from using Daniels where there is a lot of focus on running at your T when your tired.

How do you find running twice a day. How much time do you leave between sessions. I'm very interested as I often thought of doing this.

heffsarmy

Hello Gebby I think I'll go with Aerlingus to Amsterdam, although I hate there Sales, marketing bull sh!t as there prices have'nt dropped a cent for the time I want to go. Good to see your going with Daneils program again, as it obviously worked for you before. In relation to running twice a day I don't do it often, but its handy for getting the miles in, usually I would do a run at 7am and then at 7pm, giving me plenty off time to recover, I would'nt do big mileage runs twice a day, just a handy few miles. Last night done 6miles easy pace but when I got home I felt sick, could'nt hold anything down all evening, got the hot and cold shivers went to bed felt crap this morning so took the day off work. I woke today at 1pm felt a good bit better and as the day went on was feeling better by the minute, so I went out for a run did'nt bother looking at the watch during the run, ended up doing 8miles in 6.33min/mile pace, was a bit surprised at the pace because it felt easy. Not sure how the training will go next week, as I'm off too San Fransico for 8 days, I'll try and get a few runs in each morning, sweat the booze out off the system .

Gebby

Ya the weather sucks at the moment. I need a hoover craft to get out the drive of my house never mind trying to run out. Its hard to get consecutive training with the weather.

Its hard to avoid colds, flus, etc...this time of year. Anyway enjoy SF take it easyover there, nice city try not to end up in the "End up" club......

heffsarmy

The plan was to do 10miles this evening,everything was fine till about 4 miles, I landed on a branch, felt a sharp pain in my left calf enough for me to stop running. I tried to run again, I could still fell the pain, stopped for about 10minutes try to strech it off, I decided to abandon the run and I walked for about 10minutes before I started a light jog back to the house. Hopefully it ain't too bad, have skins recovery tights on. I'll see how I am 2morow might do a gentle jog in the morning 2 test the waters.

heffsarmy

I got out for a run today, was'nt sure how the left calf would hold up, anytime I pushed the pace I would get some pain and also running down hill I felt some pain. I backed off on the pace and managed 14miles avg pace 7.40 min/mile. I plan to do 6miles sunday in San Fran to bring my total miles for this week over 50. Next week I plan to do 6milers every morning just to keep things ticking over.

heffsarmy

Just back from San Fran jet lagg has kicked in big time. Had a great time but running wise I was a lazy git, only got 2 runs in and they were only 40 minutes each. I weighed myself this morning and the scales shot up to 12stone 1lb, over 9lbs in weight difference before I left, although I suspect alot this could be fluids. Time to get the diet back in order, want to get back down to 11stone 5lbs by christmas. I have to get running back on track so plan is to get out and do an hour or so of running 2nite.

village runner

heffsarmy wrote: »

Just back from San Fran jet lagg has kicked in big time. Had a great time but running wise I was a lazy git, only got 2 runs in and they were only 40 minutes each. I weighed myself this morning and the scales shot up to 12stone 1lb, over 9lbs in weight difference before I left, although I suspect alot this could be fluids. Time to get the diet back in order, want to get back down to 11stone 5lbs by christmas. I have to get running back on track so plan is to get out and do an hour or so of running 2nite.

Still have 22ibs on you.
18 weeks to go so you may take your finger out kid.

heffsarmy

Its time to get back on track, was planning a run for about 1 hour last night but ended up running for 1 1/2 hours, it was a lovely evening for running.

Tues 12.2 miles, pace 7.24min/mile

heffsarmy

Wed 5miles 7.20min/mile, One of the nicest runs I ever had, there was thick fog all over phoneix park and it was illuminated by full moon, like something out of horror movie, was tempted to go back up with the camera.

Thurs 15miles 6.59min/mile, This was a handy run, started off slow but picked up the pace towards the end of run.

Weight is down too 11stone 8lbs, must have been the booze!

village runner

heffsarmy wrote: »

Wed 5miles 7.20min/mile, One of the nicest runs I ever had, there was thick fog all over phoneix park and it was illuminated by full moon, like something out of horror movie, was tempted to go back up with the camera.

Thurs 15miles 6.59min/mile, This was a handy run, started off slow but picked up the pace towards the end of run.

Weight is down too 11stone 8lbs, must have been the booze!

7 ibs lighter in a week................Feic you now have me jealous.

heffsarmy

Thurs 15miles 6.59min/mile
Friday Rest
Saturday 10miles 6.50min/mile A though run as I was hungover from friday night, ended up at top gear show then work christmas party.
Sunday 15miles 7.05 min/mile
Total miles for last week 57

This week will be start off some interval and tempo runs, not sure wether to do the aware 10km on satruday, might knock it on the head and do a long run instead.

heffsarmy

Mon 8miles 7.05min/mile - Got a new pair of runners Adidas Adizero Adios, tried them out last night, feel ok but will take a few more runs to break them in.

heffsarmy

Tues 9.1miles avg pace 7.26min/mile - Tonight was the start of my first quality session 4 x 4minutes with 3minutes rest. Plan was to do them at around 5.35min/mile pace, happy with the splits considering it was windy.

1st rep avg pace 5.35min/mile
2nd rep avg pace 5.30min/mile
3rd rep avg pace 5.29min/mile
4th rep avg pace 5.35min/mile

Oisin11178

Heff:D
Im frank, kens m8. I was talking to you after the blessington 10k for a while. Good look with the training and the log:)

heffsarmy

Thanks Frank, Ken was saying your doin the Edinburgh marathon, I done it this year its a good race, great crowd support from the Scots. Are you doin the aware 10km?

dermCu

heffsarmy wrote: »

Tues 9.1miles avg pace 7.26min/mile - Tonight was the start of my first quality session 4 x 4minutes with 3minutes rest. Plan was to do them at around 5.35min/mile pace, happy with the splits considering it was windy.

1st rep avg pace 5.35min/mile
2nd rep avg pace 5.30min/mile
3rd rep avg pace 5.29min/mile
4th rep avg pace 5.35min/mile

Nice; is that from Daniels?
Loaned my copy to a friend so I cant check myself. Time to get it back.

heffsarmy

Dermot this is the first Q2 session from Daniels book, I did'nt find the pace that hard, I might speed things up next week.

dermCu

heffsarmy wrote: »

I did'nt find the pace that hard, I might speed things up next week.

ha ha ha, you've got your targets all wrong Heff: Is there a typo in the title of this log? You probably ment it to be:

Rotterdam 2010 sub 2.40

Seriously, when you get Rotterdam out of the way you should have a good go at your 10K time. You seem to have natural speed. I bet you have a really quick 10K in you.

heffsarmy

I read somewere that 3 or 4 weeks after a marathon program is a good time to do a 10km, will have to line one up, although the plan is to do a few triathlons after marathon.

Wed 5miles 7.10min/mile pace

Thurs 15miles 7min/mile pace

Fri Beer

I plan to do a tempo run on saturday 3 mile warm up 5 to 6miles tempo 3mile warm down.

heffsarmy

Sat 11miles avg pace 6.21min/mile. This was tempo run from Daniels book, translated into a 2mile warm up 6 mile tempo and 3mile cooldown, the tempo pace was a bit up and down as I was'nt looking the watch, tried to keep around 6min/mile, the splits are below. Four british lads ran by me reckon they are over for the cross country championships, there were flying.

Tempo mile splits

5.56
5.49
6.00
5.46
5.58
5.48

heffsarmy

Total running miles last week 48, I planned run yesterday but had a hangover so went out on the bike for 2hours instead. Things are ticking over nicely, legs starting too feel strong, will up the mileage to 60mpw in the next 4 weeks, I also plan to do a mid week run of at least 15miles or more till marathon. I have signed up for Dungarvan 10mile race at the end of january, plan is to go sub 60minutes, this will be a good bench mark to gauge my marathon pace.

Abhainn

heffsarmy wrote: »

Tempo mile splits

5.56
5.49
6.00
5.46
5.58
5.48

if you added .22 on you would have had a 36:30 10k

heff great running after the beer on Fri. I take it that you didn't take too many?
great form there

heffsarmy

Mon 12miles 7.10m/m - Not the most enjoyable run in the world, did'nt wear enough clothing, I was freezing. Abhainn the plan last friday was to go out, but the wife had other plans, I ended up drinking a few tins that were lying in the fridge.

heffsarmy

Tues 9miles avg 7.26m/m - This was the same as last tuesdays quality session 4 x 4minutes with 3minutes rest. Ran the splits a little faster than last week, picking up the speed on each split.

1st rep avg pace 5.29min/mile
2nd rep avg pace 5.27min/mile
3rd rep avg pace 5.22min/mile
4th rep avg pace 5.13min/mile

Oisin11178

heffsarmy wrote: »

Thanks Frank, Ken was saying your doin the Edinburgh marathon, I done it this year its a good race, great crowd support from the Scots. Are you doin the aware 10km?

Yeah myself and ken did the aware 10k. 37 mins for myself and 40 for ken. Ken is doing edinburgh as well. I have an ambulance ordered:D

heffsarmy

Wed 6miles 7.20m/m - Handy recovery run

Thurs 15miles 6.58m/m - First real winter run, was soaked from the start, got lashed on by hailstones half way through, then a nice down poar before I got back in the door. Was'nt the most pleasant run, was happy to finish.

Thats good going Frank, Edinburgh is great city to go on the beer after or before marathon! Are yeh going to do the same training plan?

heffsarmy

Fri - Rest

Sat - 17 miles avg 6.58 - 2mile warm up 6 x (6minutes T pace + 1 min Jog) + 1 Hour easy running, ended up doing the last 2 miles at marathon pace. Tried to keep the tempo pace at 6m/m which I done pretty well, tempo splits below. It was a tough run not only because of the tempo miles, but the night before I went too an asian restaurant and ordered 'Hot' Korean seafood stew, when it arrived I knew I was in trouble, it was golden red, first mouth full and I was sweating, the stuff was like molten lava. During the warmup things were grand but after the tempo reps things started to exploded, had to take a detour back to the house during the run, lesson learnt.

1st rep 5.59
2nd rep 6.01
3rd rep 6.03
4th rep 5.59
5th rep 6.04
6th rep 6.04

Sun - 6mile pace 8.08m/m - Went for a recovery run with the brother in law, nice run too loosen the legs

Total - 65 miles this week