Community split over proposed Wind Farm

Glenman

Planning Application: 0930520
DEVELOPMENT CONSISTING OF THE ERECTION OF (a) 105MW WIND FARM CONSISTING OF 35 NO. V90 WIND TURBINES, EACH WITH 80 METRE HUB HEIGHT AND 90 METRE HUB HEIGHT AND 90 METRE BLADE DIAMETER (WIND TURBINES T1 TO T6 INCLUSIVE; T8 AND T9, T11 AND T12; T14 AND T15; T17 TO T39 INCLUSIVE) (b) CONTROL BUILDING, ESB SUBSTATION AND COMPOUND
Development Address: GRAFFY & MEENAGRUBBY, & PARTS OF THE TOWNLANDS OF MEENALEENAGHAN, MEENACHUIT, DALRAGHAN MORE, MEENAMENRAGH, MEENAVALE, GREENANS, STRALINCHY & MULLY, AT GLENTIES, CO DONEGAL.

I was up at home for the weekend for the first time in a long time and was shocked to find a community split over a proposed windfarm. Ackward silences in the local pub and people avoiding each other after mass. A handfull of land owners are set for substancial gain while the majority of the remainder of the community are objecting as they say the wind farm will take away from the beauty of the Glen of Glenties. I can see this storyline climaxing like John B Keane's, The Field!

muffler

When there's money involved there are going to be problems.

North_West_Art

Exact same probem back in 1999 with the erection of the Esat phone masts in Letterkenny and Kerrykeel. If there was a way where the town and surrounding area could directly benefit from the wind farm, ie. subsidized power supply, or community power scheme, then fair enough. Unfortunately, back in the digiphone mast days, the system was that the sole beneficiary was the land owner where the mast was erected, through rent payed by Esat.

ladymarmalade

Glenman 2 years ago when the ESB were proposing to put several hundred pylons through both the big glen and the wee glen very few people gave a toss. The G-SIG group was then formed and managed to persuade the ESB to re-route some of their pylons away from people's houses and in one case to underground it. As part of this group we were ostrascised as preventing commercial progress in Glenties!!!!

Sadly there is only emotion on this issue now because there is money to be made.

Glenman

ladymarmalade wrote: »

Sadly there is only emotion on this issue now because there is money to be made.

So do you suspect that most of us are objecting on grounds of jealousy or are we genuinely concerned with the effect on the beauty of the area? One of their big concers is noise from the turbines but the only houses which are close are those of the landowners and they are obviously on the for side

irish1967

As the years march on we are going to see more and more wind turbines. There will be 100's if not 1000's of these turbines all over the country. I personally think they look quite majestic. When the first ones started to appear people noticed them all the time. I for one hardly bat an eyelid when i see them now.

Sure landowners who have them on their land or who sell the land to companies will be glad to have the rent or money but I cannot think of a reason why they should be objected to. They are clean (bar some noise pollution) and they are a lot more environmentally friendly than other forms of power production. Yes they could be considered an eyesore by some but so are pylons and poles.

Lets face it looking out your window and seeing a giant mine or quarry or having a nuclear power station on your doorstep would be a lot more distressing that watching the turbines turning on a windmill several miles away.

Yes yes I know someone is going to say that its is destroying an area of great natural beauty but i think personally that from a global perspective it is for the best. Life and technology march on and when electricity bills start to go through the roof because of oil prices rising it will be a bit late.

(Just one thing though... is the power from these turbines going to be for Ireland?)

Glenman

irish1967 wrote: »

As the years march on we are going to see more and more wind turbines. There will be 100's if not 1000's of these turbines all over the country. I personally think they look quite majestic. When the first ones started to appear people noticed them all the time. I for one hardly bat an eyelid when i see them now.

Sure landowners who have them on their land or who sell the land to companies will be glad to have the rent or money but I cannot think of a reason why they should be objected to. They are clean (bar some noise pollution) and they are a lot more environmentally friendly than other forms of power production. Yes they could be considered an eyesore by some but so are pylons and poles.

Lets face it looking out your window and seeing a giant mine or quarry or having a nuclear power station on your doorstep would be a lot more distressing that watching the turbines turning on a windmill several miles away.

Yes yes I know someone is going to say that its is destroying an area of great natural beauty but i think personally that from a global perspective it is for the best. Life and technology march on and when electricity bills start to go through the roof because of oil prices rising it will be a bit late.

(Just one thing though... is the power from these turbines going to be for Ireland?)

I agree but then again my folks are set to gain from this project. I suspect that this project will go ahead despite 31 objections. The goverment need the tax revenue

ladymarmalade

Glenman wrote: »

So do you suspect that most of us are objecting on grounds of jealousy or are we genuinely concerned with the effect on the beauty of the area? One of their big concers is noise from the turbines but the only houses which are close are those of the landowners and they are obviously on the for side

My concerns with the proposed ESB route were two-fold. A row of massive pylons running beside people's homes were in my opinion a horrendous health hazard, studies have shown the effects in both humans and animals caused by constant exposure and proximity to theses eye-sores. Secondly they are incredibly big and ugly to boot they would have completely destroyed this beautiful scenic area.

Personally i have no major issue with wind turbines as they are cleaner and less damaging to the environment. I think you took me up wrongly there Glenman when i said that emotion was only at play now because money is to be made. I am not disrespecting of anybody who tries to make a living off their own land, i was trying to point out that 2 years ago when nobody was to get a financial reward, nobody gave a damn. So yes you probably are right it has now turned into a game of begrudgery.

Irish1967 i have heard that some of this electricity is for the Irish market and some will be redirected for use in Northern Ireland.

Glenman

ladymarmalade wrote: »

I am not disrespecting of anybody who tries to make a living off their own land, i was trying to point out that 2 years ago when nobody was to get a financial reward, nobody gave a damn.

From what I remember, there were community meetings at the time to discuss the health risks posed by the line.

ladymarmalade

I suggest you read my first post again Glenman.

josey_whale

irish1967 wrote: »

Lets face it looking out your window and seeing a giant mine or quarry or having a nuclear power station on your doorstep would be a lot more distressing that watching the turbines turning on a windmill several miles away.

When I read this post I was reminded of a short movie made by a Galway film school graduate... kinda makes the point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szSZoNJvSkw

Glenman

ladymarmalade wrote: »

I suggest you read my first post again Glenman.

You said that people didn't give a damn when the plans for the line were put forward but from what I remember there were as many people at the "no to the 110kV line" protest meeting as there was at the recent "no to the wind farm" protest meeting.

ednwireland

it amazes me that the destruction of natural habitats (some rare at that ) is so readily agreed when wind farms come into it, there is a micro hydro scheme and a small windfarm near me, and the devastation left behind both are terrible the stream is dry, the windfarms were built destroying an ssia, the roads have drained an upland blanket bog left. the bog was turned upside down and dumped and now nothing grows there. anyone who agrees to the concreting of hill tops needs to go and look first at what happens up there.

micro generation and energy use reduction should be primary goals, unfortunately that doesnt make enough money for big business

Deer Hunter DL

ednwireland wrote: »

it amazes me that the destruction of natural habitats (some rare at that ) is so readily agreed when wind farms come into it, there is a micro hydro scheme and a small windfarm near me, and the devastation left behind both are terrible the stream is dry, the windfarms were built destroying an ssia, the roads have drained an upland blanket bog left. the bog was turned upside down and dumped and now nothing grows there. anyone who agrees to the concreting of hill tops needs to go and look first at what happens up there.

micro generation and energy use reduction should be primary goals, unfortunately that doesnt make enough money for big business

i worked on a micro hydro scheme and a small windfarm in the blue stacks , there was very little destruction the stream sometimes runs a bit dryer than it used to be does not run dry as there is always water getting out of the dam wall , i was up there on sunday no black bog to be seen loads of growth everywhere ,the bigest destruction i seen up there was done by sheep over grazing

ladymarmalade

Glenman wrote: »

You said that people didn't give a damn when the plans for the line were put forward but from what I remember there were as many people at the "no to the 110kV line" protest meeting as there was at the recent "no to the wind farm" protest meeting.

Yes there was, but when it came to forming a committee, meeting with politicians and the ESB and going around to sign petitions there was only a handful of people left.

Same in every area i guess. Ah well time will tell and if the turbines go ahead so be it. I stated previously that i have no problem with this development, i was in fact just highlighting the fact that money is a high motivator ie to those who stand to make it and to those who don't wish to see others get on. I believe very few people do care about the environment, that was my point. I am not having a dig at you in any way and i get the impression that you think i am, that was never my intention.

Glenman

ladymarmalade wrote: »

i was in fact just highlighting the fact that money is a high motivator ie to those who stand to make it and to those who don't wish to see others get on. I believe very few people do care about the environment, that was my point. I am not having a dig at you in any way and i get the impression that you think i am, that was never my intention.

I think you are right, jealousy is the main motivation behind the protests but no doubt there are people who are concerned with the noise issue and who feel the turbines will be ugly as well.
Apologies for the confusion

ladymarmalade

No probs at all Glenman

donegalman1

With the exception of the landowners, Donegal will not benefit from all the wind farms being built.

We are taking more of our fair share of these and the long term damage to our Countys Tourism potential is being forgotten again

If the sea cannot be harnessed for energy and Donegal is to continue to become a forest for windfarms then I believe the county should receive large sums be it to the county council or other projects to make up for taking all these.

I am well aware that we are suited to this type of power generation but there will be little or no benefit and many losses particularly to tourism, about the only thing we have and something we may end up relying on, I doubt if other industries are suddenly going to all be located in the North West cos its got loads of Wind Power.

Disadvantages really out weigh doing our bit for the environment.

Ideally the power line should have been underground and I know cost was a factor, but in some ways the line was to stabilise power supplies in West and North Donegal, some benefit to the county. Wind farms offer nothing to the county in general

Glenman

donegalman1 wrote: »

Ideally the power line should have been underground and I know cost was a factor, but in some ways the line was to stabilise power supplies in West and North Donegal, some benefit to the county. Wind farms offer nothing to the county in general

Sorry I am out of touch with the situtation as I am not living at home. What is the purpose of the new 110kV line, it it to provide more power to Letterkenny? I though the wind farm would be feeding into this line thus helping to provide more needed power to Letterkenny.

irish1967

I think the chances of the power going to Letterkenny are slim.. chances its for Donegal at all are slim too. I know that the windfarm in Barnesmore is controlled electronically from Scotland. The power from these new turbines could be going anywhere in the British Isles I guess

Glenman

There are now 63 objections. Do people think that this development will go ahead anyway as Ireland needs to be producing 40% green energy before a certain time. Will these objections stop the development?

ednwireland

donegalman1 wrote: »

With the exception of the landowners, Donegal will not benefit from all the wind farms being built.

We are taking more of our fair share of these and the long term damage to our Countys Tourism potential is being forgotten again

If the sea cannot be harnessed for energy and Donegal is to continue to become a forest for windfarms then I believe the county should receive large sums be it to the county council or other projects to make up for taking all these.

I am well aware that we are suited to this type of power generation but there will be little or no benefit and many losses particularly to tourism, about the only thing we have and something we may end up relying on, I doubt if other industries are suddenly going to all be located in the North West cos its got loads of Wind Power.

Disadvantages really out weigh doing our bit for the environment.

Ideally the power line should have been underground and I know cost was a factor, but in some ways the line was to stabilise power supplies in West and North Donegal, some benefit to the county. Wind farms offer nothing to the county in general

pretty much agree with your post, i dont think wind farms bring anything to donegal, i still beleive micro generation and co-op style schemes would would do more for the people here than huge windfarms concreting hillsides there is a scar up the side of the highest point of the bluestacks which was built to put in a wind farm ( no planning neede for access roads on farmland) but thankfully that planning was thrown out. . (but i guess from that you guessed i dont like them)

but underground power lines cost 5 to 10 times more to put in and suffer with huge heat dissapation problems and corrosion, also they generally have to be turned off for maintenance and overhead ones can be worked on live quite often.

North_West_Art

My understanding always was that any power generated withing the country goes straight onto the national grid; it is the ESB that distributes the power as it sees fit. So any power generated by the windfarms around the country goes first, onto the national grid. The larger privatley owned power generating plants around the country, all sell their power to the ESB. The idea of a shared community power scheme would be completely down to the efforts of a community group; power would be generated and distributed under the group's guidelines, whereas any government initiative would directly involve the ESB

colladachrioch

Glenman wrote: »

I think you are right, jealousy is the main motivation behind the protests but no doubt there are people who are concerned with the noise issue and who feel the turbines will be ugly as well.
Apologies for the confusion

I disagree with with the view that 'jealousy is the main motivation behind the protests'. Please don't underestimate how much people appreciate and want to protect their beautiful countryside. The best way to be educated about the people's motives is to read their objections on the Donegal Planning Website. All 63 are available to the public as well as 4 observations in from Statutory and Conservation bodies.

cronndiesel

with nrg gone up 400% in the last no of years in the uk and Gorden Brown getting less then what was needed in the fuel poverty provision negotiations
the corib oil/gas and all those wind farm nrg will be going to uk
there are those who will say "aw shiner" and "conspiracy theorist"
but you can research it yourself (i did)

DanFindy

I was shocked to hear the dispute in the local comunity up there as im only over the road in Ardara myself and bein a reps planner i have a few clients up that way and going from house to house hearing different stories and a community getting torn apart is quite unsettling to say the least, I know in the economic climate any few quid we can get is a bonus but if its at the cost of the beauty of the local area up the glen and at the expense of a community i dont think its worth it. Its time we looked more into offshore projects as the potential on our coasts is immense !

Pique

Why on earth should the power from windfarms in Donegal only go to Donegal ?
By that rationale, every county would need it's own power station/windfarm etc.

More a case of NIMBYism if you ask me. Yep, we all love green energy, but only if it's somewhere else, or we get the power ourselves. Jeez.

GenericUser

North_West_Art wrote: »

My understanding always was that any power generated withing the country goes straight onto the national grid; it is the ESB that distributes the power as it sees fit. So any power generated by the windfarms around the country goes first, onto the national grid. The larger privatley owned power generating plants around the country, all sell their power to the ESB. The idea of a shared community power scheme would be completely down to the efforts of a community group; power would be generated and distributed under the group's guidelines, whereas any government initiative would directly involve the ESB

If the windfarm is big enough, the power generated by it will go onto the national grid operated by Eirgrid. If it isnt big enough it will go onto the distribution grid operated by ESB. Either way, if there is a demand in the northwest for the power it will be used locally. If there is not sufficient demand it will go further out on either grid to where it is needed.
Power lines are quite lossy..especially the 38kV and 110kV lines that are in the northwest, so where possible it is more efficient that the power is consumed locally. On a windy day, you can be sure if you live in the northwest (and southwest) that almost all your electricity will come from wind farms. On a calm day, the opposite is true.

All power generators sell their electricity into a 'pool' operated by an independant (not run by the ESB) market operator. Supply companies (Airtricity, ESB, Bord Gais + several others) then buy the electricity from the pool according to their needs. Every supply company pays the same wholesale price.

I think wind farms can bring a lot of benefits to a community, so long as proper respect it paid to the beautiful environments in which they are built, which is especially true in the northwest of Ireland.

GenericUser

irish1967 wrote: »

I think the chances of the power going to Letterkenny are slim.. chances its for Donegal at all are slim too. I know that the windfarm in Barnesmore is controlled electronically from Scotland. The power from these new turbines could be going anywhere in the British Isles I guess

See my post above. The power will be used locally if there is a demand for it. If not it will be used further away from where it is generated.
All power generators in ireland are controlled centrally from Ireland.
Wind farm operators (and power station operators in general) need not be controlled locally. For example, the arndacrusha hydro electric station is controlled remotely from wicklow.
It could be entirely true that the owner of the windfarm you are alluding to would have the power to shut down / turn on the farm from a remote location. however they are only allowed to do so if the Irish grid operator tells them so. Just because it is owned by a scottish company, doesnt necessarily mean the power goes to scotland. Scotland has its own wind resource, why would they want to buy it from here?

I think there is most definitely an issue here. But the debate should be based on fact. Certain locations in ireland might not be suitable for developments of this nature. But you can be sure large areas are suitable. The question is will local communities grasp the opportunity offered by wind power, and embrace the change?

Glenman

GenericUser wrote: »

I think there is most definitely an issue here. But the debate should be based on fact. Certain locations in ireland might not be suitable for developments of this nature. But you can be sure large areas are suitable. The question is will local communities grasp the opportunity offered by wind power, and embrace the change?

What benifits will this farm have for the community of the Glen of Glenties?

GenericUser

Glenman wrote: »

What benifits will this farm have for the community of the Glen of Glenties?

Investment in a recession.
Direct investment during the construction phase
+ continued money spend during operational lifetime.
Are there shops, hotels, local businesses in the area?
Construction workers get hungry....people need places to stay etc.

My point about local communities embracing the change is this: Why not band togother, and instead of complaining, negotiate as a group for cheap energy from the windfarm owners, or to establish a community fund?
Ask for a percentage of the profit the windfarm owners make from selling the electricity?

colladachrioch

GenericUser wrote: »

Investment in a recession.
Direct investment during the construction phase
+ continued money spend during operational lifetime.
Are there shops, hotels, local businesses in the area?
Construction workers get hungry....people need places to stay etc.

My point about local communities embracing the change is this: Why not band togother, and instead of complaining, negotiate as a group for cheap energy from the windfarm owners, or to establish a community fund?
Ask for a percentage of the profit the windfarm owners make from selling the electricity?

All good points and you make a lot of sense, however in this particular case the entire local community wasn't consulted, only the landowners where the turbines are going to be deployed were invited to a public meeting organissed by the developer. Having read the observations from the Statutory Bodies (DOEHLG, An Taisce, NRFB, OPW, Loughs Agency) they all express their concerns on the potential impact that a development of this size (35 turbines) could have on the local ecosystem of rivers, peat bogs flora and fauna.

Glenman

colladachrioch wrote: »

All good points and you make a lot of sense, however in this particular case the entire local community wasn't consulted, only the landowners where the turbines are going to be deployed were invited to a public meeting organissed by the developer. Having read the observations from the Statutory Bodies (DOEHLG, An Taisce, NRFB, OPW, Loughs Agency) they all express their concerns on the potential impact that a development of this size (35 turbines) could have on the local ecosystem of rivers, peat bogs flora and fauna.

Decision due date is the 23rd of this month...however I suspect that the 63 objections will set that back a long time. Do you think that this development will go ahead?

colladachrioch

Glenman wrote: »

Decision due date is the 23rd of this month...however I suspect that the 63 objections will set that back a long time. Do you think that this development will go ahead?

Who knows? That's why we have Planning Departments to weigh up the pros and cons and make decisions.

Glenman

Decision due today

muffler

Further information requested

Glenman

I have just read this. House no. 2 originally consented (signed the form) to have the turbine within 500m of their house. They then withdrew their consent. I would have though they could not do this, thtt you could not go back on a signed document?

Glenman

Just saw on the donegal co co website that planning has been approved for a 3G mobile phone mast 300M from Edeninfagh school. Not one objection. What a bunch of hypocrites. One of the main reasons they gave for objecting to the wind farm was that there was a proposed turbine approximately 600m from the school which would have a negative effect on the children's health. They were on about this wind turbine syndrome. And now they are constructing a mobile phone mast within 300m from the school and they have no objections.

lamai

Glenman wrote: »

Just saw on the donegal co co website that planning has been approved for a 3G mobile phone mast 300M from Edeninfagh school. Not one objection. What a bunch of hypocrites. One of the main reasons they gave for objecting to the wind farm was that there was a proposed turbine approximately 600m from the school which would have a negative effect on the children's health. They were on about this wind turbine syndrome. And now they are constructing a mobile phone mast within 300m from the school and they have no objections.

Hilarious, The north west is one of the best places(if not the best) in Europe for wind energy, Which means jobs, which are badly needed in Donegal the last time I looked. morons :mad::mad:

Graces7

lamai wrote: »

Hilarious, The north west is one of the best places(if not the best) in Europe for wind energy, Which means jobs, which are badly needed in Donegal the last time I looked. morons :mad::mad:

At the cost of the natural beauty?

Lough Derg won an action against a wind farm there on just those grounds; area of outstanding natural beauty.

Donegal has a wild beauty that needs keepng safe.

( Just dropping by from way down South..)

lamai

Graces7 wrote: »

At the cost of the natural beauty?

Lough Derg won an action against a wind farm there on just those grounds; area of outstanding natural beauty.

Donegal has a wild beauty that needs keepng safe.

( Just dropping by from way down South..)

They are hardly the ugliest things you will see, alot of people don't mind them. There is a recession on and very few jobs in this county. Wind Energy could be a massive employer up here.

Graces7

lamai wrote: »

They are hardly the ugliest things you will see, alot of people don't mind them. There is a recession on and very few jobs in this county. Wind Energy could be a massive employer up here.

OK; now many jobs and for how long?

This was the main argument for the oil in Mayo a few years back and when Shell arrived, they brought in all their own personnel and all their own food supplies etc.

There was very little benefit to Mayo.

There were the same expectations in Killybegs last year; again, zilch for the community .

And you are not listening; the beauty , which attracts tourists, is in the absence of any man made structure.

There are alternatives; someone wrote here re the micro system? No impact on the environment etc.

byte

In fairness, the windmills are quite ugly. Big white structures stuck everywhere. Maybe if they were a less glaring colour, they mightn't be so bad

/me goes to paint them grey to blend them in with the sky

Glenman

The windfarm (on a reduced scale) has got the go-ahead from Donegal co co. The objectors now have 3 weeks to bring their case to an Board Pleanna. 35 turbines have been reduced to 18 and they are a smaller turbine. There are 27 conditions listed. There were 74 objections to this windfarm. You would think that would stop the project. Looks like the Goverment are going to push ahead with the green energy project no matter what.

MrPint

hello all,
i think its about time people got a grip of themselves. Sure protect some of the areas in the county for conservation and so on but for gods sake allow development in industries in others. We can get many local jobs out of this and there will be spin-off other jobs with alot of people benefiting.
Graces i dont know what your postion in with regards to a job or dependancy but i have seen most of my friends ( and myself ) have to leave to try and find work abroad. some people are not happy just sittin on the dole all their lives, grow up and live in ther real world.
we could be energy indepentant instead of buying nuclear electiricty from the uk.

all the best

Mr Pint

ps speaking of ugly constructions, anyone look at some of the new, half empty, underused, wast of money, CC buildings?

Glenman

This project was approved by the council but has been appealed to An Bord Pleanala. See info regarding appeals here
An Bord Pleanalas decision is due this month.
Hutchinson 3G Ireland Limited have recently constructed a mast in the area. I am surprised to see that they are appealing this. Do they think that the turbines will interfere with the signal?

cosanostra

These questions need to be asked.

How many jobs will be created with wind farms? Most jobs associated with wind farm construction is foreign labour we need labour intensive power production to create large numbers of jobs for localities.

How enviromentally friendly are they really? They sell the idea of wind farms as been "green" energy how much carbon is produced in their manufacture and construction and how long would it take to make this back considering a wind turbine must be decommisioned after 25yrs.

How damaging are they to rural areas? Our scenery is being damaged by wind farms i agree the odd wind farm looks peaceful but in the near future our hills will be polluted with wind farms and the pylons to take the power our of the area the donegal development plan states that a wind turbine cannot be errected within 500mtrs of a dwelling that also means a dwelling cannot be built within 500mtrs of a wind turbine leaving your land virtually worthless.

Are they really worth it?

Cronyism is rampant

Glenman wrote: »

This project was approved by the council but has been appealed to An Bord Pleanala. See info regarding appeals here
An Bord Pleanalas decision is due this month.
Hutchinson 3G Ireland Limited have recently constructed a mast in the area. I am surprised to see that they are appealing this. Do they think that the turbines will interfere with the signal?

I see the appeal is decided - any idea if sense prevailed?

Glenman

I heard this on RnaG yesterday evening. Development of 12 turbines has been approved by An Board Pleanala. The original submission was for 35 of the large turbines and 12 smaller sized turbines have got the go ahead. There are loads of terms & conditions as well, documents should be available later today. The company have to decide now whether it is worth going ahead with this reduced development or not.

Daegerty

Great idea, we need more of these around the country. No more Nimbyism

Glenman

The Gweebarra Conservation group gave a big thumbs down to An Bord Pleanalas decision. See report from Highland Radio

Such rubbish. This community is almost gone anyway. For example, we have had three funerals in Edeninfagh church in the last three months and no Christenings. This has been the trend over the last 15 years. This community is in decline anyway and its nothing to do with wind turbines. There are no jobs in this area, that is why I for one and every young person I know has moved away. Nobody will move away because they live too close to turbines, there are only a few pensioners left.