Why do the Green party seem to have it in for country people?

bladespin

Just wondering why the Green party seem to hate the country dwellers among us so much, first they seem intent to punish rural commuters with a carbon tax without giving them the option of public transport first and now I read this.

They really do seem to be out to punish anyone who lives in a standalone house in the countryside I'm struggling to find logic in their proposals or are they just trying to push their agenda through before they're ousted permanently?
They seem to be forgetting (or ignoring the fact) there are huge numbers of voters that live beyond the city's limits.

The funny thing is Mr.Gormley was on the last word yesterday celebrating the fact that 1/3 of our electricity demand last weekend had been produced by windpower, these turbines are for the most part based in our open countryside, surely the greens should be on the side of the countryside (sustainable living etc.) or am I missing something?

meathstevie

So if I read it right you will have to pay some government agency a few quid to let them know you have a tank so they can come and give you some hassle over it ? Would it not be simpler to just prosecute people who neglect to deal with waste water etc properly without all the paperwork. It can't be too hard to find overflowing tanks.

Darsad

Well I for one despise the Green party they are quite simply fools and the sooner they are gone the better for all . The main parties all have green policies and most of it comes from the Eu anyway, so we dont need these muppets implementing carbon levies at times of economic turmoil.
That said there is a serious issue with septic tanks in this country and water pollution that as a nation we need to address but we dont need the greens to do it or take credit for it as they do with any sustainable job that has been created

Cool Mo D

bladespin wrote: »

Just wondering why the Green party seem to hate the country dwellers among us so much, first they seem intent to punish rural commuters with a carbon tax without giving them the option of public transport first and now I read this.

Can you honestly not see the logic in not inspecting septic tanks? There are 10s of thousands (or more) of these around the country, and even one of them leaking can damage the water table beneath them. It's one of the biggest reasons for Ireland having so much trouble with water quality.

Currently there is absolutely no inspection of them - once you built your house you could easily disconnect your tank and let it drain into the ground, no questions asked. Septic tanks NEED regular maintenance, and it's a dirty, smelly job, that I doubt most people are doing at the moment, because they don't have to.

This law is about 20 years past due.

Biggins

At this stage, I have nothing but pure hatred for them - seriously (see this thread: http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055719727).

I despise the ground they walk on and if they come around my door at any stage, I will be done for attempted murder.

ednwireland

that'll be me having to find 10k plus next year for 2 new septic tanks
i can actually see the logic but i dont know where i'll get the money from

i dont why but green issues seem to always be city based solution just seems to be where they come from

bladespin

Cool Mo D wrote: »

Can you honestly not see the logic in not inspecting septic tanks? There are 10s of thousands (or more) of these around the country, and even one of them leaking can damage the water table beneath them. It's one of the biggest reasons for Ireland having so much trouble with water quality.

Currently there is absolutely no inspection of them - once you built your house you could easily disconnect your tank and let it drain into the ground, no questions asked. Septic tanks NEED regular maintenance, and it's a dirty, smelly job, that I doubt most people are doing at the moment, because they don't have to.

This law is about 20 years past due.

I'm not commenting on the logic of inspecting septic tanks, I'm asking if others feel the green party is targetting rural people.

I'm not passing any judgement on the septic tank thing just the politics of it, they're repeatedly targetting the countryside in my view, I'd like to know why, there's plenty of environmental problems in cities, not least is the fact that they're going to have to pump the water you mention in from the countryside to meet Dublin's demand.

Most of our water quality problems seem not to come from the water source but more from how it is delivered to the consumer, pumping stations, treatment plants etc.

gavney

Cool Mo D wrote: »

Can you honestly not see the logic in not inspecting septic tanks? There are 10s of thousands (or more) of these around the country, and even one of them leaking can damage the water table beneath them. It's one of the biggest reasons for Ireland having so much trouble with water quality.

Currently there is absolutely no inspection of them - once you built your house you could easily disconnect your tank and let it drain into the ground, no questions asked. Septic tanks NEED regular maintenance, and it's a dirty, smelly job, that I doubt most people are doing at the moment, because they don't have to.

This law is about 20 years past due.

I'm possibly missing something, but how is making people buy a license for them, gonna help people inspect them?

Is it that they aren't on a register, that it isn't known where they are? If so, why not just get people to register for free instead of charging for it. Charging people for it is just gonna make them less likely to register. Just like loads of people dodge gettting a TV license.

And, as the article says "Fines of up to €5,000 or three months' imprisonment can currently be imposed for not ensuring the wastewater is properly treated. Penalties are likely to be of a similar order under the new system."

So, if the fining system is gonna be exactly the same, why throw an extra charge on people just to register??? why not just tell everyone to register - and fine them if they don't do it on time.

Cool Mo D

bladespin wrote: »

I'm not commenting on the logic of inspecting septic tanks, I'm asking if others feel the green party is targetting rural people.

I'm not passing any judgement on the septic tank thing just the politics of it, they're repeatedly targetting the countryside in my view, I'd like to know why, there's plenty of environmental problems in cities, not least is the fact that they're going to have to pump the water you mention in from the countryside to meet Dublin's demand.

Most of our water quality problems seem not to come from the water source but more from how it is delivered to the consumer, pumping stations, treatment plants etc.

No, our water problems come from the fact that water treatment plants are overwhelmed by the volume of pollutants in our water. By far and away the two biggest sources of water pollution in Ireland are agricultural runoff and leaky septic tanks. Industrial and urban runoff is small in comparison, especially because industry is monitored to a much stricter degree than agriculture.

Dublin, for example does not have quality problems - it has a supply problem, where most of the water is leaking out it's network of old water pipes. It gets its water from the Dublin and Wicklow mountains - hardly pumping it across the country. There are environmental problems in the cities, of course, but it is still much more environmentally friendly to live in a large town or city than in a rural area. If you live in a rural area, you will likely drive more miles, use more fuel, have a larger, one storey house that uses more energy to heat, with much larger gardens, which also have an environmental impact, and you will require a larger mileage of roads to serve you, and all services you use will have to cover a greater distance and be less efficient. Obviously, green policies are going to try and cut down on al the above, and so they will have a greater impact on rural dwellers.

jmayo

To answer the OP yes they are anti rural, anti farming.
Oh and that other newly promoted around here crowd amhran nua are cut from the same cloth.

This is just another sneaky way of getting money from people.
We are going to be charged so that an otherwise unoccupied offical can call, ask a few questions and fill out mountains of reports.
Yet someone leaking buckets of slurry can probably get away with it.

Chimney tax will be soon on the cards as this rate.
The sooner the greens meet a few slurry pits up close and personal the better for all of us, both urban and rural. :mad:

I love the way fines and jail terms are guranteed for certain non violent crimes whereas suspected rapists and proven killers are let out again, so that they can say kill a 16 year old visiting foreigner. :rolleyes:

Macha

jmayo wrote: »

To answer the OP yes they are anti rural, anti farming.

What unfounded nonsense.

MysticalRain

I can't believe the amount of ridiculous hyperbole in this thread. I'm from the countryside, born and bred. I generally agree with the kinds of environmental policies the greens are promoting because I have a vested interest in preventing our beautiful countryside from being turned into garbage dump due to people's greed and shortsightedness.

mike65

How many rural Green tds and councillors are there?

NewDubliner

bladespin wrote: »

Just wondering why the Green party seem to hate the country dwellers among us so much, first they seem intent to punish rural commuters with a carbon tax without giving them the option of public transport first

People should live near where they work. If you want public transport, go live near a town with enough people liveing there to make it economical, or where you're close enough to walk or cycle.

bladespin wrote: »

They really do seem to be out to punish anyone who lives in a standalone house in the countryside

Unless there's a farm attached to the house, it's better if people live in towns where services can be concentrated & so we can reduce the problems caused by one-off houses in our countryside.

It's time we stopped subsidising other people's lifestyle choices.

slimjimmc

mike65 wrote: »

How many rural Green tds and councillors are there?

Mary White is one, lives near Borris, Co. Carlow in the foothills of Mt. Leinster.
You could probably consider Councillors in most county towns as fairly rural too, since very few of those towns have any of the facilities of the cities and their residents face similar problems.

sceptre

mike65 wrote: »

How many rural Green tds and councillors are there?

If I can assume it means "outside the cities of Dublin (incl DL), Cork, Limerick and Galway"[1], it's one TD (Mary White from Carlow/Kilkenny). And one senator, Deirdre de Burca being from Wexford. That's out of 6 TDs total and 2 senators total.

If "rural" means "outside Dublin" obviously we get the same answer for Oireachtas members.

Councillors, I think they're currently at one in Dublin (if we can include town council seats in Balbriggan) and three county councillors outside (Clare, Kilkenny & Louth). At the 2004 local electons they had a high proportion of their 18 county councillors and 14 town councillors outside Dublin. Their biggest losses in the 2009 locals though were DL/Rathdown and Fingal, where they had 4 seats and 3 seats respectively before the election - and that's out of a national total of 18 (have a look at the summary changes here).



[1] Only the first two of those have electoral areas that are pretty much unquestionably urban though.

Taxipete29

While I have no love for the Green party I dont feel that they have it in for country people.

The licensing for the septic tanks is a European directive according to that article so I dont see how that can be blamed on the Greens. Whoever was in the seat would have to sort that out.

I support any real envronmental policies the greens or any other party introduce. Anything thats stops this country being turned into an industrial cess-pit is fine by me. If those who live and work in the country have to change their practices so that we all have a cleaner and better country then so be it. The country belongs to us all and we all have a stake in keeping it clean. I dont see why any country person would have a problem with this. Do those who oppose or resent these higher standards have no pride in their community or countryside??

sold

bladespin wrote: »

Just wondering why the Green party seem to hate the country dwellers among us so much, first they seem intent to punish rural commuters with a carbon tax without giving them the option of public transport first and now I read this.

They really do seem to be out to punish anyone who lives in a standalone house in the countryside I'm struggling to find logic in their proposals or are they just trying to push their agenda through before they're ousted permanently?
They seem to be forgetting (or ignoring the fact) there are huge numbers of voters that live beyond the city's limits.

The funny thing is Mr.Gormley was on the last word yesterday celebrating the fact that 1/3 of our electricity demand last weekend had been produced by windpower, these turbines are for the most part based in our open countryside, surely the greens should be on the side of the countryside (sustainable living etc.) or am I missing something?

I would totally have agreed with this post 2 years ago, The greens only look out of city people. but.... seeing how the country has sunk I have to give it to them they have a coherent and sustainable perspective. One way or another we will run out of oil, be it 30 years or 300, so it we are to move to new energies the tax is an incentative to move away from fossil fuels. I saw a proposal to tax septic tanks with 80 euro, as a person with one I can understand the need that they be inspected. Country people need to address their issues with the greens.

juuge

One can waffle on and on about environmental issues ad nauseam the bottom line is that this proposal is yet another TAX - plain and simple. Anyway,the Greens are gone after the next election, don't waste your breath on them.

dan719

The greens have no concept of rural living. It's simply a south Dublin phenemonon. So far this year we have had bans on eel fishing (when the EU merely requested a sustainable fishing plan) and we will now see a change in the rules regarding demersal fishing. The sooner they are decimated at the poles the better.

dvpower

A ~€80 licence fee to support septic tank inspections seems reasonable to me given the damage that poorly maintained tanks can cause.

Has everyone forgot about the recent cryptosporidium problem in Galway?
+1 to the Green party on this.

Manach

Being from the country, this is a new tax targetting rural dwellers. Still, perhaps the Green plan to implement as a means to combat rural isolation, with inspectors popping up to check our sh... , sorry waste.

lucernarian

sceptre wrote: »

If I can assume it means "outside the cities of Dublin (incl DL), Cork, Limerick and Galway"[1], it's one TD (Mary White from Carlow/Kilkenny). And one senator, Deirdre de Burca being from Wexford. That's out of 6 TDs total and 2 senators total.

If "rural" means "outside Dublin" obviously we get the same answer for Oireachtas members.

Councillors, I think they're currently at one in Dublin (if we can include town council seats in Balbriggan) and three county councillors outside (Clare, Kilkenny & Louth). At the 2004 local electons they had a high proportion of their 18 county councillors and 14 town councillors outside Dublin. Their biggest losses in the 2009 locals though were DL/Rathdown and Fingal, where they had 4 seats and 3 seats respectively before the election - and that's out of a national total of 18 (have a look at the summary changes here).



[1] Only the first two of those have electoral areas that are pretty much unquestionably urban though.

Actually I think there are some ridiculous assumptions being made there. Sewerage systems exist outside of Dublin and often extend to the town boundary or beyond (for housing estates and nearby villages). In the case of the Green cllr. in Dundalk, it's true to say that a fair bit of the ward lies outside Dundalk. But not in terms of population. I think the number of urban dwellers is in the region of 80% (in Dundalk South anyway). Furthermore, the town/county boundary is quite present in people's minds and rural votes tend to stay with rural cllrs. And to a lesser extent, the same with urban votes IMO.

Outside of Mary White, I can't think of any properly rural Green Party politicians except for that cllr. in Clare.

Specifically on topic, why the heck are the greens concerned with groundwater when most of them wouldn't have to worry about the consequences of its pollution?? Possibly the majority/significant minority of people with septic tanks would also use wellwater, so it's in their interest to be concerned about septic tanks. If the water quality tests from that are fine, why the hell should they be concerned about groundwater unless their property adjoins a stream/river??

lucernarian

dvpower wrote: »

A ~€80 licence fee to support septic tank inspections seems reasonable to me given the damage that poorly maintained tanks can cause.

Has everyone forgot about the recent cryptosporidium problem in Galway?
+1 to the Green party on this.

How is it reasonable?! The costs of replacing them might be "reasonable" in that they stop the supposed widespread pollution itself. But setting up another quango is reasonable? If I'm going to pay a tax, I'd rather see it go on something that will benefit the country (health, reduce deficit etc) than more whiny civil servants.

Also, what did the greens do about the cryptosporidium problem?? They were totally irrelevant, the problem would have been fixed as quickly if they vanished off the face of the earth.

Apologies for double post.

NewDubliner

Manach wrote: »

rural isolation.

Rural isolation is a self-imposed problem.

lucernarian

NewDubliner wrote: »

Rural isolation is a self-imposed problem.

True. But that should go both ways. If people aren't being supplied with a public service, they should not be charged a tax for providing the service themselves. It's unreasonable that the rural environment is protected over the people and communities who live there. If people in urban areas were charged rates for having the same services provided to them (running water as well as sewerage) then this would be more equitable.

Taxipete29

NewDubliner wrote: »

Rural isolation is a self-imposed problem.

Not everyone can live in a town or city and nor do we want them to.

lucernarian

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Not everyone can live in a town or city and nor do we want them to.

Not everyone can live in the countryside and nor do we want them to.:)

ei.sdraob

NewDubliner wrote: »

People should live near where they work. If you want public transport, go live near a town with enough people liveing there to make it economical, or where you're close enough to walk or cycle.

Unless there's a farm attached to the house, it's better if people live in towns where services can be concentrated & so we can reduce the problems caused by one-off houses in our countryside.

It's time we stopped subsidising other people's lifestyle choices.

im moving out the country soonish

i get land, alot bigger house, no noise and no trouble making knacker neighbors

my commute to work is a whole few seconds it takes to walk into home office

ive lived and work in large cities, and more than glad that im out of the rat race that Dublin is, i used to cycle to work every day in Dublin but getting nearly knocked over by a bus few times i learned that my life is more important


btw i want to put up a small windmill but not being allowed to do so.... ****ing greens and their hot air ...


does anyone know if this only applies to septic tanks or are more expensive waste treatment plants included?

Nermal

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Not everyone can live in a town or city and nor do we want them to.

They don't have to, they just have to stop complaining about not having public services or being 'forced' to drink & drive...

bonkey

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

But that should go both ways. If people aren't being supplied with a public service, they should not be charged a tax for providing the service themselves.

Doesn't it cut both ways, though? If its not paid for by the people it effects, then its partly paid for by people who neither need nor use the service.

Imagine if the rural population of Ireland were told that they were facing a tax increase to pay for urban public transport. I would imagine there would be outrage...that rural Ireland would be subsidising urban services.

So when we look at the issue of septic tanks, who should pay for it? If everyone pays for it, then urban Ireland are subsidising rural services....which should presumably entitle them to the same outrage mentioned above.

Instead, the notion has been put forward that those who have septic tanks are the ones who should fund (at least, in part) the inspection of septic tanks. Its a bit like suggesting people who use a bus service should pay (at least in part) for their bus ticket....but somehow its different?

If people in urban areas were charged rates for having the same services provided to them (running water as well as sewerage) then this would be more equitable.

I'd readily agree that anyone being provided with a service such as water-supply or waste-management should have to pay for it.