Baptism

kryogen

Heres a quick one for ye

I am expecting the birth of my first child any day now and i am getting pressure from all sides to have it baptised, this does not sit well with my own religious beliefs, im actually getting more stubborn about it because i feel like im being pushed into doing something in relation to my child that i dont want or deem to be necessary.

I am not overly militant with my personal choices but since it is my child why should i put it through a ritual that i myself dont accept to have any meaning?

There are other options such as a naming ceremony which i would be happy to do, i just feel very uneasy with the thought of petending to believe something that i dont, i wont be raising my child to blindly believe in anything, it is my goal to let my child decide its own beliefs, the same way as i have come to mine

it will cause a massive row in the family on both my side and my partners side if i dig my heels in here and flat out refuse to be a part of it or have it done

is it worth it?

part of me thinks, since the ritual has no meaning for me that it is better to just do it, keep everyone happy and raise the child how i intend to after

and part of me thinks, why should i have to keep everyone happy when its my child! why should i be forced into participating in a religious ritual in which i dont believe? i dont force my own beliefs on anyone and dont like feeling others force theirs on me

i would also like to say that it is not my intention to offend anybodys beliefs with this post, everyone has a right to their own beliefs.

silverharp

we didnt baptise ours. Life is short and we are in agreement that we didnt want to get pushed around by family pressures or the games that people get involved in to get their kids into certain schools etc.
I wouldnt worry about it too much, once everyone realises youll not be turned, the issue should go away. anyway youll be so out of your head from lack of sleep it will be the last thing on your mind:D

Terodil

kryogen wrote: »

i would also like to say that it is not my intention to offend anybodys beliefs with this post, everyone has a right to their own beliefs.

Exactly. And that's also the answer to your question: If you have your kid baptised, you push him/her down one very specific road: that of christianity, without giving him/her any say in it.

I think you have the right idea to let your kid decide when s/he is old enough. Don't let your families pressure you into doing something that's not right.

deisemum

OP just wait until you have your baby and you'll soon see how so many people like to voice their opinions on everything to do with your baby and it doesn't stop past babyhood. You'll get so much "advice" on how to do things. Let it in one ear and out the other and only take on board the advice that suits you.

If your partner and yourself have made up your minds not to have your baby baptised then stick to your guns and put on a united front. Yeah let the extended family have their rows but ye're the baby's parents and it's your decision.

I've actually heard of grannies ttying to tak3 a child whose parents didn't want it baptised to their local priest to have it baptised in secret, don't know if they succeeded or not. If my memory serves me right I think I read a post on hear a while back and a poster was afraid a grandparent was trying to do this behind her back.

Anyway before you have to deal with that best of luck with the upcoming birth.

eviltwin

Bottom line its your child your choice

I was raised in a very devout catholic family but didnt go to church from about the age of 15. When I had my daughter at 20 I was still living at home and was more or less told if I didnt have her christened I was out on my ear so against my better judgement I went through with it.

Wish I hadnt..it hasnt caused any problems but I wish I had stuck to my guns and said no

I'm now older and wiser and living away from home and I'm due my second in a couple of weeks. I recently got debapthised such is my lack of interest in the church and I've always known the new baby won't be bapthised.

I told my mother this a few months back and again as expected she went mental but its sunk in now and she is accepting.

I was a bit worried that she would try and get him bapthised behind my back but I've checked it out and without parental consent it cant be done

Problem is OP if you give in on this you are leaving yourself open to have every choice you make regarding your child critised..if you feel that strongly about it dont do it.

shellyboo

Are you married, OP?

eviltwin

shellyboo wrote: »

Are you married, OP?

That shouldnt make a difference should it?

St James

being married can make a difference.

If you were married in a Christian Church, then why did you marry in the Church?

Baptism, or CHRISTening is the ceremony of being welcomed into the Christian Community.

If you do not have Christian beliefs, then there is not much sense in getting any of the Church sacraments.

If you are a member of a non Christian religion then why not have the child welcomed into that religion.

shellyboo

eviltwin wrote: »

That shouldnt make a difference should it?

Yep, it does. If they're married, both names will go on the birth cert for definite and the child then can't be baptised without both parents present. If they're not married, the mother (not sure if that's the OP or not) can omit the father's name and then get the child baptised herself. That would be one solution if the OP is the child's father, but it leaves him in a very vulnerable position legally, and I wouldn't recommend it simply on principle that you're not religious. If the OP is the child's mother, then it's more clear-cut - the kid can't get baptised without the mother present (since her name will be on the birth cert either way) and all the OP would have to do is stick to her guns and say no.



Also, from a more logical point of view - if they got married in a church (as most people do) then why make an exception for that and not this? Or, vice versa, if they didn't get married in a church and went along with the OP's wishes for a secular marriage, why does the partner have a problem with a secular naming ceremony?

eviltwin

St James wrote: »

being married can make a difference.

If you were married in a Christian Church, then why did you marry in the Church?

Baptism, or CHRISTening is the ceremony of being welcomed into the Christian Community.

If you do not have Christian beliefs, then there is not much sense in getting any of the Church sacraments.

If you are a member of a non Christian religion then why not have the child welcomed into that religion.

If the OP did get married in a church that was HER choice. I'm sure many people marry in a Church for their own personal reasons but that doesn't mean they should enforce that on a child.

shellyboo

eviltwin wrote: »

If the OP did get married in a church that was HER choice. I'm sure many people marry in a Church for their own personal reasons but that doesn't mean they should enforce that on a child.

I'm sorry, but if you're prepared to set aside your principles and get up and lie in front of God, witnesses and members of the clergy because a church is prettier than the registry offices (:rolleyes:), then you've little to be complaining about when your partner asks you to do the same for your child.

Terodil

Sorry Shelly, but I agree with EvilTwin here.

If YOU personally find it acceptable to submit to Christian procedures because of X (be that: pleasing the OH, catering to your own desire for fuzzy feelings, or genuine belief), that gives you neither right nor obligation to do the same to your kid.

The kid is a human and should be allowed to make that decision for him/herself. Even you as a parent have no business imposing your choice of religion on your kid.

I know I'm treading on dangerous ground here but it's akin to imposing sexual preference or profession on your kid. If you're hetero that does not mean you can or should impose that on your kid. If you are a carpenter that does not mean your kid should have to be. If you are Christian, that does not mean your kid should get pushed down that road before s/he can even speak, much less understand what is being done to him/her.

P.S. OP: Have you examined the consequences of not baptising your kid on his/her education? I hear that in Ireland, this is not something easily neglected.

shellyboo

Terodil wrote: »

Sorry Shelly, but I agree with EvilTwin here.

If YOU personally find it acceptable to submit to Christian procedures because of X (be that: pleasing the OH, catering to your own desire for fuzzy feelings, or genuine belief), that gives you neither right nor obligation to do the same to your kid.

The kid is a human and should be allowed to make that decision for him/herself. Even you as a parent have no business imposing your choice of religion on your kid.

I know I'm treading on dangerous ground here but it's akin to imposing sexual preference or profession on your kid. If you're hetero that does not mean you can or should impose that on your kid. If you are a carpenter that does not mean your kid should have to be. If you are Christian, that does not mean your kid should get pushed down that road before s/he can even speak, much less understand what is being done to him/her.

P.S. OP: Have you examined the consequences of not baptising your kid on his/her education? I hear that in Ireland, this is not something easily neglected.

I think that if you're willing to set aside your principles for your partner's wishes in one area (in this case the Church), then you're willing to do it. When you marry in the Church you vow to accept whatever children God sends you and raise them in the Catholic faith.

Now, if those vows mean nothing to you, fine. But baptism should mean equally nothing, and going through the motions for the sake of your partner is no better or worse than when you did it when you got married.

All this is hypothetical, of course, since we don't know if they're even married. BUT, personally, in a case like this, I'd be leaning towards letting the kid get baptised.If the vow is meaningless to you, then it's not going to affect how you raise the kid, a bit of water splashed on its head isn't going to turn it into a devout Catholic. That's to do with upbringing. Plenty of official Catholics in this country have never been inside a church beyond their baptism, what's one more for the sake of keeping the family peace?

Terodil

shellyboo wrote: »

I think that if you're willing to set aside your principles for your partner's wishes in one area (in this case the Church), then you're willing to do it. [...] what's one more for the sake of keeping the family peace?

Because the essential and important difference that YOU make the sacrifice/concession while getting married, for yourself, while you FORCE YOUR KID (that cannot even understand, much less decide such matters) to make concessions for your sake.

Baptism cannot be undone.

shellyboo

Terodil wrote: »

Because the essential and important difference that YOU make the sacrifice/concession while getting married, for yourself, while you FORCE YOUR KID (that cannot even understand, much less decide such matters) to make concessions for your sake.

Baptism cannot be undone.

Yes it can, you can opt out of the Church any time you like. There's a form, I believe.

Marriage is a binding contract legally, but being a member of the Catholic Church doesn't obligate you to be an active Catholic. If you don't *believe* in it, then it's nothing more than a piece of paper and a drop of manky water.

krudler

Terodil wrote: »

Because the essential and important difference that YOU make the sacrifice/concession while getting married, for yourself, while you FORCE YOUR KID (that cannot even understand, much less decide such matters) to make concessions for your sake.

Baptism cannot be undone.

Yeah it can, www.countmeout.ie

OP, I'd stick to your guns, let other people worry about their antiquated traditions and practices, do what you think is right for your child, dont let anyone who tries to claim your child "wont get to heaven" or such nonsense because it isnt baptised

Nevyn

No baptism can not be undone, you can have a note made on the file the church has on you that you have left the church but baptism can not be undone.

As for it being just some words, water AND oil, those words are oaths which you swear before those gathered there who do believe and my own personal honour would not let me make a mockery of the *beliefs* and religion of others by swearing to something I do not agree with and would not do.

If you do not want your children baptised then be firm with people and give your reasons to them clearly.

eviltwin

Thaedydal wrote: »

No baptism can not be undone, you can have a note made on the file the church has on you that you have left the church but baptism can not be undone.

As for it being just some words, water AND oil, those words are oaths which you swear before those gathered there who do believe and my own personal honour would not let me make a mockery of the *beliefs* and religion of others by swearing to something I do not agree with and would not do.

If you do not want your children baptised then be firm with people and give your reasons to them clearly.

I'm going through the motions of being "counted out" and its not as easy as just filling in a form. There has been lots of toing and froing with the church over it and its still not done. It takes your names off the parish books so you dont count in the number of Catholics registered in a certain area but as far as the church are concerned once a catholic always a catholic

shellyboo

Thaedydal wrote: »

No baptism can not be undone, you can have a note made on the file the church has on you that you have left the church but baptism can not be undone.

As for it being just some words, water AND oil, those words are oaths which you swear before those gathered there who do believe and my own personal honour would not let me make a mockery of the *beliefs* and religion of others by swearing to something I do not agree with and would not do.

If you do not want your children baptised then be firm with people and give your reasons to them clearly.

I actually agree, it's not something I'd disrespect by being part of if I didn't believe in it... but not everyone has the same outlook. A la carte Catholicism is rife, and I don't think any of us are wholly blame-free when it comes to using our religion when it suits us and leaving it aside when it doesn't.

Terodil

Thaedydal: Exactly.

And once again, if you want to be lax with your own oaths and opt out that's one thing. How can you take that decision FOR YOUR KID though? It's selfish. You are taking your kid's decision because you want your own comfort.

krudler

Thaedydal wrote: »

No baptism can not be undone, you can have a note made on the file the church has on you that you have left the church but baptism can not be undone.

As for it being just some words, water AND oil, those words are oaths which you swear before those gathered there who do believe and my own personal honour would not let me make a mockery of the *beliefs* and religion of others by swearing to something I do not agree with and would not do.

If you do not want your children baptised then be firm with people and give your reasons to them clearly.

thats something that riles me up, the certitude of the church "once you're one of us, your're one of us" attitude, you can have a bit of water dropped on your head as an infant which signs you up for a lifetime of being a catholic, but making a free choice as an adult to not be a part of the church anymore "doesnt really" make you not a catholic anymore as far as they're concerned

Me and my OH were talking about kids the other day and whether we'd want them baptised, I'd prefer not to as I dont believe in it, she's a cafeteria catholic, wants to go along with some of the beliefs just not the crazy ones,which is most people tbh, ask most catholics if they really believe Noah gathered 2 of every animal on earth, which would amount to billions of life forms and they'd laugh, but pouring water on a kids head gets you a clean slate and a place in heaven is something most people would go along with no questions asked, its a bridge we'll cross if it ever comes to it though

cch

Terodil wrote: »

Thaedydal: Exactly.

And once again, if you want to be lax with your own oaths and opt out that's one thing. How can you take that decision FOR YOUR KID though? It's selfish. You are taking your kid's decision because you want your own comfort.

But people are only "lax with their own oaths" becuase they were put in that position in the first place by being baptised as children and feeling vaguely that they "should" get married in a church!! And the cycle continues...

OP, stick to your guns. Think through the issues and be certain of your stance, so that when you're asked why you are/aren't getting your child baptised you can answer decisively and unemotionally.

Nevyn

It can be hard to face down family and be firm, I had parents and grandparents and siblings all feeling like they wanted to 'speak thier mind' on the issue and reasons being that
the child would not go to heaven, would be stuck in limbo, would not grow up up to be a good and moral person, would be an outcast in school or if they died they would not have a proper funeral and the family could not grieve properly.

I countered all of them and said if my parents wanted to have the child baptised they could but I would not be taking part and they could not get the parish priest to agree to it.

None of the dire warnings I got have come to pass the kids get on well in school despite the 'handicap' of not being baptised.

krudler

Thaedydal wrote: »

It can be hard to face down family and be firm, I had parents and grandparents and siblings all feeling like they wanted to 'speak thier mind' on the issue and reasons being that
the child would not go to heaven, would be stuck in limbo, would not grow up up to be a good and moral person, would be an outcast in school or if they died they would not have a proper funeral and the family could not grieve properly.

I countered all of them and said if my parents wanted to have the child baptised they could but I would not be taking part and they could not get the parish priest to agree to it.

None of the dire warnings I got have come to pass the kids get on well in school despite the 'handicap' of not being baptised.

Thats something I cant get my head around, newborn children need to be cleansed of sin, what kinds of sins could an infant possibly have? we're the ones who **** em up in life, babies are the only ones among us with a clean slate to begin with

Nevyn

krudler wrote: »

Thats something I cant get my head around, newborn children need to be cleansed of sin, what kinds of sins could an infant possibly have? we're the ones who **** em up in life, babies are the only ones among us with a clean slate to begin with

If you are of the christian faith then original sin is part of their doctrine and I will respect their religion but they should respect the fact I am not of thier faith and do not hold the same beliefs.

I do not want to see this thread turn into christian bashing, or church bashing or theological debate, I want it to be helpful to OP in terms of dealing with the pressure they are under from friends and family.

kryogen

thanks for all the replies, i would like to re-iterate, i do not want to offend anyone or belittle their beliefs so please dont let it slide into a debate on the merits of different religions

we are not married, my name will be on the birth cert however so there shouldnt be any legal issues

i like the idea of telling everyone we are having a baptism, just postponing it for about 18 years

but my reasons for not wanting to just go along with it and play along are in line wih Thaed's thinking, i dont want to stand there and swear oaths that i dont believe in and make a mockery out of another religion

i have a great deal of respect for whatever somebody chooses to believe when they are informed and old enough to make that decision themselves and i expect my family to respect my beliefs in return

this idea that i should just have the child christened cause its the normal thing doesnt hold much weight with me either, i am not concerned with the status quo, i will raise my child to be as knowledgable as i possibly can of all cultures and creeds and if my child decides on his/her own that one particular religion is for them then fair enough

I just cant reconcile with putting its name in one partcular list for the rest of its life

I know you can opt out from a list, but thats really just an aesthetic thing from what i can make out

Why should anyone be indoctrined into something in this day and age before they have had a chance to make up their own mind?

I just dont want to fall out with the rest of my and her family over this! i get the impression it is a big deal to her side, and i know its extrememly important to my mother etc.

Nevyn

Have you considered having a secular naming/welcome to the family ceremony?

Such things are often away to bridge the gap and give family a chance to come together and meet the baby and have a day of celebration. You can have family members bless the child themself wishing them health and happiness and promise to be there for the child as they grow.

http://www.humanism.ie/website/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=51&Itemid=57

New Life

When a baby is born or a child adopted, the parents will usually want to express their joy. They may also wish to state, solemnly and publicly, their joint commitment to the welfare of the child and their determination to give that child a secure and loving home during the long years of growing up.

kryogen

Thaedydal wrote: »

Have you considered having a secular naming/welcome to the family ceremony?

Such things are often away to bridge the gap and give family a chance to come together and meet the baby and have a day of celebration. You can have family members bless the child themself wishing them health and happiness and promise to be there for the child as they grow.

http://www.humanism.ie/website/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=51&Itemid=57

yeah i am more then happy to have a naming ceremony as i have already said, but when i brought this up it caused uproar!

i might try it again after the child is born and see if we can have a rational discussion about it, i know its ultimately our decision, but my partner has made it clear she just wants to keep the peace. Besides, rational discussion and religion generally dont mix very well

Zillah

We've discussed this sort of thing a few times over in Atheism and Agnosticism. Pretty big thread here if you're interested.

Mrmoe

I would recommend going a head with the baptism as your child will not really make up their own mind until they are in their teenage years. However, if you feel so strongly against it do not do it. One could argue that by making a choice at this stage you are automatically driving them down one particular path. The important thing what ever you do is to convey to your child that it will be there choice eventually whatever they do, either being a devout christian to a devil worshipper or anything in between.

kryogen

Zillah wrote: »

We've discussed this sort of thing a few times over in Atheism and Agnosticism. Pretty big thread here if you're interested.

i have already raised the question there thanks

just wanted to get a broader range of opinions on it also

eviltwin

kryogen wrote: »

yeah i am more then happy to have a naming ceremony as i have already said, but when i brought this up it caused uproar!

i might try it again after the child is born and see if we can have a rational discussion about it, i know its ultimately our decision, but my partner has made it clear she just wants to keep the peace. Besides, rational discussion and religion generally dont mix very well

I dont think your issue here is the baptism itself more your relationship with your family

Your an adult, living your own life and about to take responsibility for another human being. Why are you worrying about what your family are going to say?

Okay they arent going to like it but welcome to the world of parenting!!!

You have to put your foot down on this now otherwise every decision you make in relation to your child will be questioned

kryogen

eviltwin wrote: »

I dont think your issue here is the baptism itself more your relationship with your family

Your an adult, living your own life and about to take responsibility for another human being. Why are you worrying about what your family are going to say?

Okay they arent going to like it but welcome to the world of parenting!!!

You have to put your foot down on this now otherwise every decision you make in relation to your child will be questioned

thanks

In relation to the family, my mam is very important to me! her opinion means alot to me, so i dont enjoy falling out with her

If i could just get her to accept it and be ok with it i wouldnt give a **** about anyone else tbh!

iguana

kryogen wrote: »

In relation to the family, my mam is very important to me! her opinion means alot to me, so i dont enjoy falling out with her

If i could just get her to accept it and be ok with it i wouldnt give a **** about anyone else tbh!

You haven't said what your partner thinks? Do you both feel unhappy about the idea of a baptism or are your feelings a lot stronger?

spudz22

I felt that I had to reply to this thread because I wasn't christened myself! I'm 22 and doing a masters in college but ever since I was young I wondered why I hadn't been christened. Tbh it's something that I wish my parents had done. I totally respect their choice in not wanting me to be christened but I really wish they'd considered how I'd feel when I was older especially when all my friends who I'd play with where making their communion and confirmations without me.
Now don't get me wrong, the communion and confirmation isn't my reason for wanting to be christened in the first place! I felt like I didn't belong anywhere. I remember telling my parents that they where selfish (I was about 8!!) and they never considered how I felt. This upset them greatly because it was only then that they'd realized how much it meant to me. I'm by no means a religious person but it feels like something I really need to do to make me feel peace in myself.

All I'll say is consider how your child will feel in years to come but definately don't be pushed around. Sorry about my rant, I just felt that it might be helpful hearing from another persons point of view

Terodil

Heh, I'm a bit surprised you felt that way spudz and still chose to do nothing about it, because you could have been baptised later if you had really wanted? =/

I was never baptised and I'm sooo glad I was not. I disliked almost everything about Christianity in school, the more I learnt about it the more repulsed I was. My parents brought me up to look at stuff carefully before making a decision, and to not just go along with 'the done thing'. It would have been hugely hypocritical of them to have me baptised and I'm very grateful they did not. I really felt like I had the choice, and I took that choice, without being burdened with past decisions weighing on me.

P.S. Funnily enough I chose to assist in Church services during my teenage years, but that was just for the sake of the music.

spudz22

Terodil wrote: »

Heh, I'm a bit surprised you felt that way spudz and still chose to do nothing about it, because you could have been baptised later if you had really wanted? =/

I

I plan on looking into getting christened when I finish my Masters next yr (my parents are totally supportive of my choice). I totally respect and understand different peoples values! It'd just make me feel better being christened but everyone's different. Just thought I'd give my input

Nevyn

What a shame spudz22 that your parents didnt' follow through with you after thier choice.
My two kids value the fact I gave them that choice and if they wanted to get baptised and to make thier communion and confirmation with the rest of the class they knew they had the option and I had family memebers who were willing to take them to mass.

In the end they choose not too and if they eventually decided to be come christains of what ever type they I know I will be ok with that as long as it is thier choice and it makes them happy.

kryogen

iguana wrote: »

You haven't said what your partner thinks? Do you both feel unhappy about the idea of a baptism or are your feelings a lot stronger?

actually i have said what my partner thinks!

pookie82

When your kid is old enough to go to school and you need to choose one, are your extended family going to dictate that for them too? Are they going to choose its clothes, its extra cicricular sports, whether it gets to go to its first school disco when it asks, how to deliver the birds and the bees talk when the time is right.......? My guess is no.

So why on earth would you even consider letting them have an input into one of the most significant things you could ever do to a child: initiate them for life into a religion you have absolutely no interest or belief in?

This idea of baptising children to "keep the peace" absolutely disgusts me. I have seen countless parents who have not (since they were forced in their teenage years) and will not in the future enter a church on a Sunday morning for mass. Yet suddenly they have a child and there they are declaring before god to raise it in a christian faith while the priest carries out his insane, voodoo like ritual of demolishing the devil and original sin. Think about the actual day - can you honestly stand at a font and watch some aged old dude in a cape declare that your beautiful baby needs to be "cleansed" of its sinful state? I can't come to terms with the fact that any able bodied person would be willing to do that in this day and age, but that's a different topic.

Just something to perhaps help you out - at the last baptism ceremony I attended the priest was very explicit about the fact that the child was now "christ's" forever, and that even if she chose to leave the church when she grew up or become "one of those Jehovah witnesses or baptists" (direct quote, I kid you not) she could never do so, because now she belonged to christ and that was absolutely irreversible. And her free will as far as her right to choose what she is a part of and what she believes was utterly banished in the eyes of the church with one swift whoosh of water.

You need to think if you can really stomach this, even for ceremony's sake. I know that there are some people close to you who you don't want to hurt. I don't have kids yet but I have already made it clear to my mum in various conversations that I will never, ever baptise a child, and although she was shocked and upset at first I think now she just accepts it and respects my take on it. She's not HAPPY with it, but she accepts it.

That's what you need to get your mother to do. With all due respect, if you choose a school your mother doesn't like, or if you have a little girl who she thinks shouldn't be allowed to say, attend ballet classes (i'm just giving examples here) will you bow to her say then too? If not, then why bow at this infinitely more significant ceremony that will forever dictate your child's formal religious ethos without the crucial say so of your baby?

Make it clear to your mother that you will let your child know about ALL of the religions out there and that if they so decide, they can freely and with your total support get baptised themselves if they make that decision when they are old enough. I really don't see how an rational person can argue with that. If they still insist that it must be done now, when the child is too young to have any kind of input, then that would ring bells for me. I know that my own mother's major problem would be that if anything happened to the child and it wasn't baptised its soul would be in danger etc, yet when I question her about the millions of people worldwide who live quite happily without baptism and if she thinks they're all genuinely going to rot in hell, she has no answer for me. For those who try to push you into this, reply to them with rational and logic and they won't have a leg to stand on.

Sorry this post is so long, but it's something I feel very strongly about. You don't have to be mean to your mother, but you do have to sit her down and explain that you will make the decisions for your own child and will do what YOU feel is best and would like her support, regardless of her personal belief. She probably feels that famous old Catholic guilt complex at having raised a daughter who won't pass on the religion (what will the neighbours think/did I fail in my Catholic duties etc) but the older generations have just got to accept that time has moved on, as has the country and the manner in which we choose to conduct ourselves. It's time to step away from tradition and however painful that may be, put the foot down.

PaddyThai

It amazes me how many people I know get their kids baptized and then later on do the communion and confirmation ceremony.
These parents don't believe in the church but find it easier to go with the flow than say no. Pressure from parents and family etc.
Unfortunately, we end up with more registered Catholics thnan there really are.

Our kids were never baptized and I had to take the oldest out of a Catholic school because they not only insisted they go to a school mass but that they take 'Holy communion' even though they and their Muslim friends told the teacher they were non Catholic.

The hippocracy around Catholicism has to be stood up to.