Christenings

diddley · 02-05-2008 1:11am #1

Would you christen your baby? Forgive me for my ignorance on the subject, but AFAIK, a LOT of parents who wouldnt be religious or who wouldnt go to mass christen their children :S Is my perception of this totally wrong? :S Christenings are so pointless.

Zamboni · 02-05-2008 1:44am

diddley wrote: »

Would you christen your baby? Forgive me for my ignorance on the subject, but AFAIK, a LOT of parents who wouldnt be religious or who wouldnt go to mass christen their children :S Is my perception of this totally wrong? :S Christenings are so pointless.

Funny you should mention that. I went to one at the weekend and had a terrible moral dilemma as to whether I should attend or not.
Christenings are obviously pointless to atheists, but the lukewarm folks in the middle who aren't really practicing that I know, see a christening as a kind of religious insurance policy. Cop out, gutless, fence sitters? Not my place to judge.
I had to bite my tongue on several occasions during the barbaric ritual of indoctrination.

orestes · 02-05-2008 1:54am

Most people just use them as an excuse for a p!ss up from what I can tell

Tim_Murphy · 02-05-2008 8:32am

orestes wrote: »

Most people just use them as an excuse for a p!ss up from what I can tell

That seanms to often be the case alright. :rolleyes:

Dave! · 02-05-2008 9:24am

I'd say more people use it as an educational insurance policy than a religious one tbh

Charlie3dan · 02-05-2008 9:45am

diddley wrote: »

Would you christen your baby?

Short answer: No

However, I could see circumstances where I would allow my child to be christened, even if I have no intention of giving it a religious upbringing.
My missus doesn't have as strong feelings about atheism as I do, and in addition her family are very religious. This could possibly lead to my child being christened.

In reality though, these proceedings are part of irish custom, even though the majority of people don't place any religious weight in them.

Doctor DooM · 02-05-2008 9:50am

DaveMcG wrote: »

I'd say more people use it as an educational insurance policy than a religious one tbh

Sadly, I would say this is a prevalent factor in Ireland today, along with pressure from the grandparents.

robindch · 02-05-2008 9:58am

diddley wrote: »

AFAIK, a LOT of parents who wouldnt be religious or who wouldnt go to mass christen their children

Not in our family -- three out of six in the extended family were baptized, but that happened 20 years ago down the country. The three that were born and live in Dublin haven't been dipped, nor are they very likely to be

Andy-Pandy · 02-05-2008 10:07am

I'd have no interest in christening my child, but my mother has already told me she would sneak him/her to a priest if i didnt. I'd do it just to keep her happy tbh.

Doctor DooM · 02-05-2008 10:09am

Andy-Pandy wrote: »

I'd have no interest in christening my child, but my mother has already told me she would sneak him/her to a priest if i didnt. I'd do it just to keep her happy tbh.

Jeebus, if my mother did that to me, I think I'd see red.

Dades · 02-05-2008 10:18am

Zamboni wrote: »

Funny you should mention that. I went to one at the weekend and had a terrible moral dilemma as to whether I should attend or not?

Why the hell would you not attend a Christening?

I was at one last weekend too. Nice family affair with food and booze afterwards in the sun.

My first is due this year, and it will be Christened for two reasons (1) Mummy and families completely expect it, and (2) getting the child into a decent school within 10 miles. Yes it will piss me off having to do it, but my indignation doesn't need to be someone else's burden.

Andy-Pandy · 02-05-2008 10:28am

SDooM wrote: »

Jeebus, if my mother did that to me, I think I'd see red.

My children are all hypothetical by the way, but id tend to mirror what dades just said.

robindch · 02-05-2008 10:45am

Dades wrote: »

my indignation doesn't need to be someone else's burden.

hmmm... with an attitude like that, you'll never make much of a fundamentalist

Doctor DooM · 02-05-2008 10:49am

Andy-Pandy wrote: »

My children are all hypothetical by the way, but id tend to mirror what dades just said.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with Dades too. But if anyone forced a child of mine to do something without my permission- especially something religious like that- I would not be pleased.

death1234567 · 02-05-2008 10:56am

I dont think christenings are a big deal TBH. The kids not old enough to know what's going on anyway. First Communion and confirmation on the other hand...

Dades · 02-05-2008 11:02am

robindch wrote: »

hmmm... with an attitude like that, you'll never make much of a fundamentalist

I blame my ethos.

SDooM wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, I agree with Dades too. But if anyone forced a child of mine to do something without my permission- especially something religious like that- I would not be pleased.

I concur, although if my kid could be christened and get it's "Go To School Pass" without me having to win a Tony award at the altar - that wouldn't be the worst thing!

Doctor DooM · 02-05-2008 11:07am

death1234567 wrote: »

I dont think christenings are a big deal TBH. The kids not old enough to know what's going on anyway. First Communion and confirmation on the other hand...

But when it came to First Communion, would you be happy making your kid feel left out? Is that not worse, even?

Tigrrrr · 02-05-2008 1:40pm

Zamboni wrote: »

I had to bite my tongue on several occasions during the barbaric ritual of indoctrination.

Isn't that a bit much? I would describe christenings as: boring, slow and repetitive. Unless you mean the part where the baby cries as the priests wets his head, I don't know what you mean by barbaric.
It's hardly indoctinating either, per se. Nobody listens who doesn't already believe, and those who don't believe are only there for the relatives or the beer. How bad?

death1234567 · 02-05-2008 1:58pm

SDooM wrote: »

But when it came to First Communion, would you be happy making your kid feel left out? Is that not worse, even?

Thats kind of what I meant. Kids are *forced* (to an extent) to have their communion/confirmation with all their friends and teachers teaching them prayers, going through the mass etc. What place has that got in State schools? Its all about the church keeping power and indoctrinating (SP?) the vunerable. You can't indoctrinate a baby in a christening because it doesn't know whats going on.

Anyway I'm off topic.:o

Red Hand · 02-05-2008 1:58pm

Yes, I would if it's mother wanted it done. Plus, it would be the expected thing in my family, and I wouldn't want to cause hassle.

Malari · 02-05-2008 2:14pm

I am always amazed at how many people would do things like this "just to keep the mother happy". Do interfering family members really have so little respect for you that they can't accept your reasons for doing things your own way, if you feel strongly about it?

death1234567 · 02-05-2008 2:21pm

Malari wrote: »

if you feel strongly about it?

I think you'll find that most atheists don't feel strongly about it. I mean you hold your baby and the priest runs some water over his/her head. No big deal.

Malari · 02-05-2008 2:27pm

I suppose in Ireland I would consider someone who declares themselves an atheist would feel quite strongly about it. At least I do. :pac:

Dades · 02-05-2008 2:29pm

Tigrrrr wrote: »

It's hardly indoctinating either, per se. Nobody listens who doesn't already believe, and those who don't believe are only there for the relatives or the beer. How bad?

All true!

As for first holy communion, that decision can be left with the child. If they don't want to be left out - fair enough. Though surely these days there are enough non-catholics in each class so that those NOT making their communion aren't complete lepers.

Malari · 02-05-2008 2:30pm

And I don't think it's the physical act of pouring over water that I would object too, it's the symbolism. I mean the reason I don't attend mass is that I don't subscribe to what's being said, rather than I don't like sitting on a wooden bench for half an hour while some guy talks on an altar!

Orion · 02-05-2008 2:34pm

I feel strongly about it. My children are not christened even though my parents (father in particular) wants them to. We had to go to my niece's christening recently and my father started brainwashing my daughters - when I threatened to walk out of the church with them he stopped. But at the afters he started again with the "if you don't I will" thing. There are harsh words coming soon.

The way I see it it is our choice whether our kids are christened or not - nobody else's until our children are old enough to decide for themselves - then it becomes their choice. I respect my parents' choices regarding their religion and I fully expect, and demand, the same respect for my choices especially regarding my children.

Popinjay · 02-05-2008 2:37pm

Macros42 wrote: »

The way I see it it is our choice whether our kids are christened or not - nobody else's until our children are old enough to decide for themselves - then it becomes their choice. I respect my parents' choices regarding their religion and I fully expect, and demand, the same respect for my choices especially regarding my children.

Bravo!

Malari · 02-05-2008 2:38pm

I totally agree Macros. My parents respect my views and I theirs. I don't have children but I wouldn't let anyone try to tell me what to do regarding christening...I'm thinking of a certain mother-in-law.

Zamboni · 02-05-2008 2:43pm

Jeebus, everyone is a moderate today.
It must be the bank holiday looming up

I'm still with Macros and Malari on this one though.

Leeby · 02-05-2008 2:44pm

Malari wrote: »

I am always amazed at how many people would do things like this "just to keep the mother happy". Do interfering family members really have so little respect for you that they can't accept your reasons for doing things your own way, if you feel strongly about it?

I think when they say "the mother" they're talking about their childs mother not their own mothers.

Malari · 02-05-2008 2:51pm

Ok, but I think some people are talking about their own mothers. Or relatives. And either way, surely the mother and father have a say.

Christenings

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