Building Regulations

kenneth2

I just got stung for Solar panels not being in the builders quote,
when i thought/assumed that they were part of the building regulations that a certain part of the build must be have renewable energy
( which i assumed would be solar panels)

I haven't cleared up this up properly yet...

I got planning permission in July 2007
and cleared the site Oct 2008
and started building in April 2009

So what building regulations should i be looking at?
and shouldn't any building being built in 2009 contain some renewable energy?

sinnerboy

As the building owner it is your responsibility to comply with regulations . The builder is not responsible to provide you with the information - you must provide it to him . Via a consultant if you can't do so yourself

in the meantime you could look here

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055500071

kenneth2

Thanks for the reply, i would have expected that a builder is responsible to for building the house to comply with the building regulations and the engineer should ensure that this is done correctly.

So From your reply you believe that the house should be built in ocordance to the 2008 Conservation of Fuel and Energy Regulations?
I did a quick google on this and couldn't find the regulation...

Anyway i was hoping that someone here could help me
and say what regulations my house should be built to, based on the infor provided.

I thought that i should get a BER assessor, air tightness test, etc...
but since the walls,windows and roof was on by 30 june 2009....
I expect that i don't need to get a BER assessor, air tightness test, etc...
Am i wrong ? My Engineer has not said that i need to get these either.

Any help greatly appreciated.
I'd like to be sure about this when talking to the Engineer.

sydthebeat

kenneth2 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply, i would have expected that a builder is responsible to for building the house to comply with the building regulations and the engineer should ensure that this is done correctly.

So From your reply you believe that the house should be built in ocordance to the 2008 Conservation of Fuel and Energy Regulations?
I did a quick google on this and couldn't find the regulation...

Anyway i was hoping that someone here could help me
and say what regulations my house should be built to, based on the infor provided.

I thought that i should get a BER assessor, air tightness test, etc...
but since the walls,windows and roof was on by 30 june 2009....
I expect that i don't need to get a BER assessor, air tightness test, etc...
Am i wrong ? My Engineer has not said that i need to get these either.

Any help greatly appreciated.
I'd like to be sure about this when talking to the Engineer.

if the build was 'substantially complete' (walls finished) by 30th june 2009, and you applied for planning before 30th june 2008. Then you are not subject to 2008 regs.

kenneth2

Thanks for that...
Thats what i thought and since i'm not building under those regulations.....
I don't need BER's etc...

but can i get a grant for putting up solar panels ? or some other renewable energy...

sinnerboy

You do need a BER Cert . This is a stand alone requirement separate to B regs . Google for SI 666 2006. You can't get grant aid for renewables in a new house

You may feel you don't "need" the 2008 regs . But in the long run , assuming you have a long term interest in the house , you should embrace and seek to do better than these provisions .

2010 regs are on the way . The 08 regs will be outdated soon .


.

kenneth2

Thanks for the Sinnerboy

onq

sinnerboy wrote: »

As the building owner it is your responsibility to comply with regulations . The builder is not responsible to provide you with the information - you must provide it to him . Via a consultant if you can't do so yourself

in the meantime you could look here

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055500071

The OP is employing a builder - he's not a self builder.

While its the job of a building professional to design a building to comply with the regulations, I always understood that its the job of the builder to build it in compliance with the regulations.

Where there is no building professional detailing the building the responsibility I understood that it still falls on the builder to build in compliance, however he may do so.

I'd appreciate it if you could point me in the direction of some judgement, regulation or law that supports your position.

TIA

ONQ.

onq

sinnerboy wrote: »

You do need a BER Cert . This is a stand alone requirement separate to B regs . Google for SI 666 2006. You can't get grant aid for renewables in a new house

You may feel you don't "need" the 2008 regs . But in the long run , assuming you have a long term interest in the house , you should embrace and seek to do better than these provisions .

2010 regs are on the way . The 08 regs will be outdated soon .
.

I'd like to endorse Sinnerboys comments and note that the 2013 regs will require all dwellings to be carbon neutral.

People who are building to today's regs stds will be trading at a disadvantage to those whose house comply with the 2013 regs when they are selling houses in a decade.

FWIW

ONQ.

Mellor

onq wrote: »

While its the job of a building professional to design a building to comply with the regulations, I always understood that its the job of the builder to build it in compliance with the regulations.

Where there is no building professional detailing the building the responsibility I understood that it still falls on the builder to build in compliance, however he may do so.

I agree that its the responibility of the builder to comply with the regulations.

But you are very naive if you think that this extends beyond the scope of the contract. The SPs weren't (or at least it appears that way) in the scope, therefore they aren't getting used.

If the SPs are required, then its should be quite clear who is at fault.

Lightning McQue

Folks

Any chance someone would indicate whats in the 2010/2013 regulations

Lightning

onq

Mellor wrote: »

I agree that its the responibility of the builder to comply with the regulations.

But you are very naive if you think that this extends beyond the scope of the contract. The SPs weren't (or at least it appears that way) in the scope, therefore they aren't getting used.

If the SPs are required, then its should be quite clear who is at fault.

<chuckle>

I can see we're off to a good start today Mellor and I think we're at cross purposes, for which I am at least partly to blame.

Let me be very specific here:
I am not arguing that any specific sustainable energy measures should have been included - by implication or inference - in the contract, if they were not written into the specification, shown on the drawings or called up in a measured bill of quantities or in the tender documents.

My comments were addressing the principle of whose responsibility it was to build in accordance with the requirements of the building regulations.

Again let me be specific:
It is the job of the person carrying out development works to do so in compliance with the building regulations.
This is an obligation under law, not under contract, and contracts do not limit this obligation nor can you contract to perform an illegal act.
For the avoidance of doubt and nit-picking, it is a given that specialists can only carry out their part of the works in compliance with the regulations.
To me this seems to place the onus on whoever is performing attendances and supplying the overall finished product to ensure that co-ordination, completion and sealing occurs.

In relation to the current situation, there are several means to reduce the carbon footprint of the house and unless SP's were in the contract documents they may well be ultra vires the contract as a specific method of achieving carbon footprint reduction.

However this exchange does raise the interesting question of what Energy Conservation Works must absolutely be carried out to a house and therefore must by definition, be assumed to be part of the contract.

Any thoughts on that?

ONQ.

onq

Lightning McQue wrote: »

Folks

Any chance someone would indicate whats in the 2010/2013 regulations

Lightning

They're not published yet, heck even the current revision may only be a bill - check the environment website.

And this is the problem construction professionals face.

The point is that standards are changing and changing fast.

The compliant house of today may well become yesterday's "leaking like a sieve".

All this feeds into a climate of fear and doubt that is worldwide at the moment - this will make extreme solutions look palatable.

Here is a thought for you.

Apart from massively insulating the house, every other solution including heatr exchangers, solar panels, heat pumps, winde generators - they all use some for of electromagnetic device.

We seem to be in a climate where members of management companies may not be adequately paying into their sinking fund for necessary replacement M&E items.

What chance the private homeowner will ensure that their A-rated M&E systems are properly maintained, repaired or replaced?

ONQ.

sinnerboy

onq wrote: »

I'd appreciate it if you could point me in the direction of some judgement, regulation or law that supports your position.ONQ.

My experience of many , many house builders is they do not provide anything that is not expressly provided for on contract documents . Often , just ensuring they provide just that is challenge enough .

onq

sinnerboy wrote: »

My experience of many , many house builders is they do not provide anything that is not expressly provided for on contract documents . Often , just ensuring they provide just that is challenge enough .

I was making the point that the builder had to build compliantly.

I wasn't suggesting that he had to supply SP's hat weren't in the tender.



ONQ.

PaddyThai

I also, always understood that it is the responsibilty of the builder to ensure that the building complies with building regs. For example stairs going and rises may not have been specified but should comply with regs. The same for escape windows from habitable rooms.
I also understood that it was up to the builder to bring to the attention of the client where the drawings are not in compliance with building regs. For example where mechanical extracts from bathrooms are not shown on electrical layout but required by regs. Where entrance doors don't have a ramp or are too narrow.

sinnerboy

Caveat Emptor . Assumptions are dangerous - disputes arise

A builder will price what he is asked to price and no more than that . They are not responsible for design .

Conveyancing does not proceed on the foot of contractors certificates of compliance - but on either architects or engineers . The same applies to stage payments from a clients lending institution .

Again - the building OWNER is responsible to comply with regulations . No one else . If you do not know how to apply those regulations - and instruct your builder accordingly - and ensure through regular site visits the enforcement of those instructions , you risk falling foul of building regulations. Enforcement actions will be visited on you.

No one else .

Coyote

A builders job is to build what was asked for ie what is in the contract
builders do not study building regs and are not responsible for buildings complying.

That is what you hire a Architect for. it's a Architect job to design a building. Architects spend huge amounts of
time checking and learning regs. and when the building is done they have to sign off that it was build in compliance
with building regs and can be sued if it was not even 20+ years later. If you do not employ one then you are the
responsible person for a building being in compliance.

most banks nowadays will not lend/make final payment
with out someone signing off that the building is in compliance at the end of the build.
most good architects won't sign off after something is build as they have no way of knowing if it was build in compliance of the regs.

Thats not to say you won't find a great builder who will build it right or that
you don't know the stuff yourself but even architects have a hard time to keep relearning the regs as they change so fast.

as for the Solar panels not being in the builders quote, it's your job or your architect to have full drawings/details
of what you want, when a builder gets them he sends them to a quantity surveyor who works out the all material
and labor costs. so the more details before building starts the better chance something will come in on cost.
as a QS will only price for what he knows about ie on the drawings or details provided. and then everything
after that is a extra whether building regs require it or not.

Coyote