Renewable Energy - how will you comply with Building Regulations?

sinnerboy · 27-02-2009 8:09pm #1

To those of you who will NOT have your house completed ( meaning that the structure of the external walls has been erected ) before this date -

A straw pole -

( would be grateful if you would simply answer these 3 questions, without asking any questions yourselves ..... )

You need to know this to comply with 2008 Conservation of Fuel and Energy Regulations

- what renewable energy source are you going to use ?
- assuming you have lined up your on site test or will do so very soon , what air tightness target are you aiming for ?
- what is your calculated energy performance and CO2 emmision rate ?

Quazzie · 28-02-2009 6:18pm

sinnerboy wrote: »

To those of you who will NOT have your house completed ( meaning that the structure of the external walls has been erected ) before this date -

A straw pole -

( would be grateful if you would simply answer these 3 questions, without asking any questions yourselves ..... )

You need to know this to comply with 2008 Conservation of Fuel and Energy Regulations

- what renewable energy source are you going to use ?
- assuming you have lined up your on site test or will do so very soon , what air tightness target are you aiming for ?
- what is your calculated energy performance and CO2 emmision rate ?

Sinnerboy, I intend on using a system that I've seen you recommend before on another thread whereas I intend building the internal lead of 215 block to take the structural weight and then roof and then insulate and build out leaf. Would I need to have all this completed before 30th June or would the inner leaf be enough? I'm toying with the idea of PV Solar after ESB's recent announcement, but am not totally sure so at the moment I have no renewable energy source

sinnerboy · 02-03-2009 2:43pm

Ok I suppose I am not surprised to see this thread dispaper of the front page so fast

Either there are not so many building now , or there is a genuine lack of understanding or interest .

Quazzie2002 - if the external wall structure is completed in time you "will get away with it" . I don't believe that is your modus operandi thus the inverted commas

To make an informed decision on PV's and many other items you need a DEAP calculation and competent professional assist you .

That same calculation will

1. demonstrate your compliance with Building Regs ( 2005/08 depending on works progress )
2. Determine your BER cert rating

MrLNB · 08-05-2009 10:05pm

sinnerboy wrote: »

Ok I suppose I am not surprised to see this thread dispaper of the front page so fast

Either there are not so many building now , or there is a genuine lack of understanding or interest .

Quazzie2002 - if the external wall structure is completed in time you "will get away with it" . I don't believe that is your modus operandi thus the inverted commas

To make an informed decision on PV's and many other items you need a DEAP calculation and competent professional assist you .

That same calculation will

1. demonstrate your compliance with Building Regs ( 2005/08 depending on works progress )
2. Determine your BER cert rating

you said i think. My engineer confirmed my thoughts on all of them anyway, HB and BER. Well I always held that opinion about BER when my house was assessed. He walked out the door and doesn't have a clue if there is insulation in the walls, doesn't know HOW MANY HALESTONES I count inside the front door in the downpours, not to mention the buckled window in the landing which I use now as ventilation. gave up on sealing it. (thank the lord Im renting).

People have no interest in something that's so badly regulated, and all it does is cost people money.

LNB

topcatcbr · 08-05-2009 10:19pm

Your BER assessor has to assume that the house was built properly and can only assess what he can see. If you are Renting why would you have to employ a BER assessor or Engineer. Your landlord should have done this. If you want your BER assessor to be certain of the insulation in the walls it can be done. Just open up the walls so he can see measure and photo the insulation in min 4 areas. By the way you will pay for this and the cost of reinstating the walls to origonal standard. Or you can accept that the house was built to the regulations which were in force at the time of construction and take a default U-Value for this. Your choice.

MrLNB · 08-05-2009 10:31pm

topcatcbr wrote: »

Your BER assessor has to assume that the house was built properly and can only assess what he can see. If you are Renting why would you have to employ a BER assessor or Engineer. Your landlord should have done this. If you want your BER assessor to be certain of the insulation in the walls it can be done. Just open up the walls so he can see measure and photo the insulation in min 4 areas. By the way you will pay for this and the cost of reinstating the walls to origonal standard. Or you can accept that the house was built to the regulations which were in force at the time of construction and take a default U-Value for this. Your choice.

it was the landlord.

.

yeah, its just that, u know. well,
ok,,, you see. ok this is it. its hard to believe (if i was buying a house) an assessors report, if, now, if, that report is based on visual and only visual (he only had pen and paper and measuring tape) inspections. And I agree, he cant knock all walls and up lift the floor, why is there need to trust the BER over the Builder. if only the BER cert involved the infra red heat censor camera and the air tightness test. I just never got it. The BER person is only doing his Job. but the Rating is based on his inspection, then again, i dont know, , ,I have never bought a house, and probably never will, I dont even know if people buying homes put weight on the certs, maybe they do. I know they are legal. but job creation is job creation :P

sinnerboy · 09-05-2009 10:57am

Anyone care to mention how they intend to provide renewables in their new build to comply with TGDL 2008 ?

How did you make your decision ?

( talk of existing house BER is diverting - if off topic )

The Banks Home · 10-05-2009 8:45pm

Hi ,

You don't have a box for non-compliance, or something like haven't looked in to it.

I was at the Self-build in Galway, everyone was shocked to here it wasn't a condition of my planning.

But on my way home, I remembered something. I think Mayo Co Co are holding a stance against the gov. I think they are in court. I just thought i remembered hearing something. Is anyone else getting conditions of planning, Professionals at the Show seemed to think that people had it on their conditions.

Bnk

sinnerboy · 10-05-2009 9:17pm

This is a building regulations matter . Not planning .

When you decide - please take part in the poll .

mr_edge_to_you · 10-05-2009 11:34pm

We're going the geo-thermal route. I think if you have an opportunity to build a new house you should incorparate some level of renewable energy into it - doesn't have to be a full passive house even something such as a few solar panels for hot water. Anything that directly reduces your dependency on oil is a smart move.

If everything goes according to plan for us my fiancee will be staying at home and geo-thermal heating will best supply our heating needs (constant ambient heat!). From speaking to friends it is not any cheaper than a conventional oil heating system but you get more heat for the same money - good enough for us!

As a side note, it must stated that renewable energy does cost money and that cannot be ignored. It adds significantly to the cost of your build. For us to install the heat pump is a fair chunk of our mortgage - we are fortunate enough that we are in a position to manage this but many people's circumstances don't allow them this opportunity. But as I said above everyone should do what they can! However small or simple it is!

sinnerboy · 12-05-2009 5:34pm

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

I think if you have an opportunity to build a new house you should incorparate some level of renewable energy into it

One actually has no choice . B Regs require it

sydthebeat · 18-05-2009 4:20pm

just a quick note:

im just finished doing a provisional BER on a new build, 252 sq m, to determine compliance with 2008 regulations.. and this is the MINIMUM requirement to meet:

renewables quota
Carbon performance coefficient
Energy performance coefficient

Building Elements
walls 0.27 floors 0.25 roof sloped 0.2 roof flat 0.16
windows 1.6
thermal bridging factor 0.08

Heating space and water
6 sq m generic solar tubes, 300 litre cylinder
boiler interlock
94.2% condensing oil boiler feeding rad system
dedicated wood pellet / log stove with back boiler

Lighting
100% LELs

Ventilation
natural, 1 chimney, 2 open flues, 18 passive or intermittent fans, draught lobby

The house must meet a B1 rating at 89.17 kwhr/m2/yr to meet regulations.

Interesting to note where things can be altered and where they cannot.
1.6 u value windows required min because of glazing percentage (28%)
Renewable quota unable to be altered, actually, of interest, if solar collectors (tubes) alone were to be used, according to 'generic' information... id need 14 sqm with an 1850 litre cyclinder!!

.

so to anyone thinking of building, or just about to start..... GET YOUR CALCULATIONS DONE to see what you need to incorporate to comply...

No6 · 18-05-2009 6:07pm

The Banks Home wrote: »

Hi ,

You don't have a box for non-compliance, or something like haven't looked in to it.

I was at the Self-build in Galway, everyone was shocked to here it wasn't a condition of my planning.

But on my way home, I remembered something. I think Mayo Co Co are holding a stance against the gov. I think they are in court. I just thought i remembered hearing something. Is anyone else getting conditions of planning, Professionals at the Show seemed to think that people had it on their conditions.

Bnk

Mayo Co Council are in conflict with the Dept of the Enviornment over their adopted development plan which relates to planning in the county. The Min requirement for renewables is as stated above a requirement of the Building regulations (Part L 2007) which comes into effect for all houses from the end of June this year. It has nothing to do with your planning conditions. Best of luck with your build but beware of people selling renewables (or anything else eco for that matter!!!) You should check with your supervising engineer or architect if you are exempt from this or not.

drunken_munky52 · 04-06-2009 10:17pm

sinnerboy wrote: »

To those of you who will NOT have your house completed ( meaning that the structure of the external walls has been erected ) before this date -

A straw pole -

( would be grateful if you would simply answer these 3 questions, without asking any questions yourselves ..... )

You need to know this to comply with 2008 Conservation of Fuel and Energy Regulations

- what renewable energy source are you going to use ?
- assuming you have lined up your on site test or will do so very soon , what air tightness target are you aiming for ?
- what is your calculated energy performance and CO2 emmision rate ?

1. I'd use ***** solar panel hot water system and auxillary heating system; a ***** engineering 97% efficient gas condesing boiler with regenerative flue. (not renewable but very efficient, also lowers the Co2 emmision)

2. Youd need thermal bridging factor of about 0.5 to have it not to airtight.

3. Aim for about 100 KG CO2/m2/year

sydthebeat · 04-06-2009 10:55pm

drunken_munky52 wrote: »

1. I'd use ***** solar panel hot water system and auxillary heating system; a ***** engineering 97% efficient gas condesing boiler with regenerative flue. (not renewable but very efficient, also lowers the Co2 emmision)

2. Youd need thermal bridging factor of about 0.5 to have it not to airtight.

3. Aim for about 100 KG CO2/m2/year

1. have you had your design and specification run through the DEAP software to see if your spec complies?

2. not quite sure what you mean here... are you aiming for an air tightness value of 0.5?? thats the bare minimum....
thermal bridging can be factored at 0.08 if building with accrediated details.. 0.15 if not... thermal bridging does not influence air infiltration.

3. absolutely not... that would not comply with regs. for example a 200 m2 dwelling would produce 20 tons a year if that rate is applied...
again, only a DEAP calculation will show what level needs to be achieved in order to comply with building regs...

soldsold · 05-06-2009 9:37am

drunken_munky52 wrote: »

2. Youd need thermal bridging factor of about 0.5 to have it not to airtight.

thermal bridging and air tightness are surely separate issues?

Steve

HobNob · 05-06-2009 9:53am

How do you workout what you need to be compliant ?
do I need to get an energy assessor ?

would a heat pump be sufficient ?

sydthebeat · 05-06-2009 10:07am

HobNob wrote: »

1. How do you workout what you need to be compliant ?

2. do I need to get an energy assessor ?

3. would a heat pump be sufficient ?

1. the design and specification needs to be run through a software package called DEAP (Dwelling Energy Assessment Procedure)

2. a BER assessor is formally trained in using DEAP, so yes, they can do this. But there are also many professionals out there who have trained in DEAP and not registered as assessors, mainly to do just this, to be able to certify compliance with regs. Ask the person (engineer / architect) who is going to certify your build if he/she can do it or not...

3. a heat pump with a COP (coefficient of performance) of 3.0 or greater is considered acceptable as a renewable heat source. however, whether or not this alone will meet regs is impossible to say without DEAp calculations

sinnerboy · 05-06-2009 10:34am

drunken_munky52 wrote: »

1. I'd use ***** solar panel hot water system and auxillary heating system; a ***** engineering 97% efficient gas condesing boiler with regenerative flue. (not renewable but very efficient, also lowers the Co2 emmision)

2. Youd need thermal bridging factor of about 0.5 to have it not to airtight.

3. Aim for about 100 KG CO2/m2/year

1. please don't name companies . And please read the thread title again -

2. That makes no sense whatsoever

3. What does that have to do with Renewables + B Regs ?

MacTheKnife1 · 27-07-2009 10:18am

Air tightness: Am aiming for [FONT=&quot]a measurement of less than 6 m3/hr/m2 is required. I hope that we will actually do much better than that. Air tightness test will be done next month. Trying to follow best practice - but not using the air tightness mebrane (I know I will get slammed for this last statement).

Renewables: Am using 4 flat solar panels on roof facing due south. Also solid fuel stove/range. HRV system.

No underfloor heating, no oil heating.

Am aiming for a B1 rating - or better still an A3 rating.

Windows 1.4 rated, mainly south facing, a few small windows (some triple glazed to north side).

My BER guy said I would get an A3 rating if I used wood pellet instead of solid fuel for heating. Given I have lots of trees beside the house it seems stupid to import woodpellets from Canada to heat the house. So B1 rating it will be with my solid fuel range. In this case I think my B1 run on sold fuel would be more energy efficent than the A3 that runs a wood pellet range/boiler.
[/FONT]

soldsold · 28-07-2009 11:19am

Hi Mactheknife,

I'm interested in your method of achieving good airtightness without using a membrane. Is this for cost reasons? Are you using OSB sheeting in the roof to give airtightness? IF so, any concerns about humidity/ condensation from the OSB being a good vapour barrier?

Steve

MacTheKnife1 · 28-07-2009 11:45am

soldsold wrote: »

Hi Mactheknife,

I'm interested in your method of achieving good airtightness without using a membrane. Is this for cost reasons? Are you using OSB sheeting in the roof to give airtightness? IF so, any concerns about humidity/ condensation from the OSB being a good vapour barrier?

Steve

Steve, I know I risk getting my head blown off here. But I'll answer:

I did not use the membrane cos noone seems to know how to use it. Also cost issues were scary. I did get a price estimate for installing it and it seemed very high.

I am not too worried about humidity issues given that I have the HRV and so the house will be well ventilated.

I am using rafterlock insulation in the roof 150mm and also 50mm insulated board on the ceiling. The builder is excellent and his attentiion to detail is very good. So at this moment in time I am *hoping* I will have a good quality of air tightness and excellent U values. As the hosue will be tested in a few weeks I will post the tightness value then.

I have checked the windows today and no air leaks - thats before they were plastered, and on a windy day. Once they are boarded and plastered nothing will get past them.

I have no dormer windows/side attics which are noted for air leak risks.

MacTheKnife1 · 28-07-2009 11:53am

soldsold wrote: »

I'm interested in your method of achieving good airtightness without using a membrane.

Another thing we did was to plaster over all electrial chasing to seal the chased area. Then we put our insulated board over that.

I am not looking for perfection - just decent quality.

The membrane is all well and good but very few people know how to use the stuff, and it is expensive.

soldsold · 28-07-2009 1:56pm

Thanks for the reply. Will be very interested to hear the test results. The HRV system will need a good airtightness to work efficiently so fingers crossed!

Steve

sinnerboy · 28-07-2009 1:58pm

soldsold wrote: »

Will be very interested to hear the test results.

me too . keep us posted please

Mazotasan · 14-08-2009 12:49pm

Me three...Have similar spec as Mac and havn't got into the detail yet especially where block and roof meet. Will be watching this...good luck

rodred · 20-08-2009 5:00pm

Hi,

just trying to figure out how to comply, as roof not suitable for solar
as shadow from dormers will block sun for half the day.
not sure have the budget for heat pump air to water or air to air.
woodpellets seem to be out of favour as supply etc.

would a solid or gas stove do it, that could do the heating and water at the same time? or is this even possible

any info much appreciated

cheers

No6 · 20-08-2009 5:23pm

rodred wrote: »

Hi,

just trying to figure out how to comply, as roof not suitable for solar
as shadow from dormers will block sun for half the day.
not sure have the budget for heat pump air to water or air to air.
woodpellets seem to be out of favour as supply etc.

would a solid or gas stove do it, that could do the heating and water at the same time? or is this even possible

any info much appreciated

cheers

Hi Rodred, you don't say do you have to comply with Part L 2008 ( if you havn't started building yet you do!!) If so then you require renewables but that is the least of it if you ask me. Who is signing off on your house they should be guiding you after all they will be signing off on it or you will at least need to get your house assessed by a BER assessor (preferably one with a professional construction background) I'm not sure what you diffculty with wood pellet is, there is no problem with the supply of pellets unless you are talking to someone who is pushing oil or a heat pump!!

rodred · 20-08-2009 7:09pm

hi No.6

thanks for gettin back to me, yeah i have to comply to 2008.
i have just heard that supply can be a bit shaky at times and also
that you could do with a good size store area for them?
im on a corner site of existing house.

by 2008 regs, then my only option might be to go with a heat pump
or pallet boiler then, if solar is a no go.

No6 · 21-08-2009 12:59am

rodred wrote: »

hi No.6

thanks for gettin back to me, yeah i have to comply to 2008.
i have just heard that supply can be a bit shaky at times and also
that you could do with a good size store area for them?
im on a corner site of existing house.

by 2008 regs, then my only option might be to go with a heat pump
or pallet boiler then, if solar is a no go.

If your site is tight the only heat pump options you have are a) bored collector and b) air to water. a) is the most efficient and most expensive due to cost of bore hole., b) I wouldn't touch with a barge pole, annecdotaly expensive and very inefficient and costly to run

For wood pellets you need a minimum of a 3.5 tonne store, there's plenty of silo's available at the moment, external or internal. If I was building new i would make sure the pellet store is located internally in a garage and preferably at a higher level than the boiler so you can use gravity to feed it. Auger's and vacume systems are expensive and can break down gravity will always work!!. Also you need to be able to get a large truck to within 20m of your pellet store. Wood pellets are also carbon neutral for when the carbon tax arrives, heat pumps use electrictry which is not carbon neutral.

I Hope this helps

rodred · 21-08-2009 9:24am

For wood pellets you need a minimum of a 3.5 tonne store

thanks for the info, the site is only 220sqm corner site. so not sure that
there would even be room for 3.5 tonne store. that sounds like alout of pellets. :eek:

is there anything else i can do can anyone tell me??

thanks

Renewable Energy - how will you comply with Building Regulations?

If your NEW build will complete after June 30 09 - what renewables are you using 125 votes

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