I frickin hate ultra moves

lazlo

They are lame get outta jail free cards and they can completely reverse a one sided match. I wish there was an option to fight with them disabled

Doctor DooM

You need to learn to alter your play style when your opponent gets Ultra charged. if you're better than the other guy, trick him into Ultra-ing at a bad time and punish!

Many people feel the same actually, it's a catch up mechanism, but it does allow newer players a fighting chance against the old skewlers. Good side and bad.

Orim

I like ultras as a catch-up mechanism. It's another thing you need to watch out for during the match. For example as Ryu against Chun, you have be careful with random fireballs if Chun has ultra.

IMO There is very few ultras that will utterly change the course of a match and the ones that do are quite hard to land (Akuma, Blanka, Zangief)

For me the main problem with ultras is the disparity between them. For example Sagats ultra has loads of setup and will hit for full ultra every time.
Chuns ultra is good for setups but will hit for feck all damage unless you time and space it just right. Then you have a character like Guile who just can't hit his ultra at all and even when he does it does no damage.

L31mr0d

lazlo wrote: »

they can completely reverse a one sided match.

That's the point tbh. Would you want the match to be one sided? Ultra's are just another aspect of the game you have to account for.

When your opponent has it, bait them to use it, then block it and punish. That being said some of them will nearly always land due to being able to combo into them (I really do hate Balrogs Ultra set up ) but damage scaling fairly nerfs most of them.

Although, I would like to see the building of Ultra meter limited only to focus absorbs. I really don't see the need for the meter to build from merely getting hit. It should be something the player needs to work to unlock.

Retr0gamer

I do like the ultra system. As a ryu player it really changes the match up during a game and adds a lot of variety.

animaX

lazlo wrote: »

They are lame get outta jail free cards and they can completely reverse a one sided match. I wish there was an option to fight with them disabled

Sounds like you play a character who doesn't have a very useful ultra! (guile, vega?!)

Otherwise, try to use yours to your advantage more often. Then you might like them more! It goes without saying that I love me some ultra :pac:

Doctor DooM

lazlo, which character do you use?

Orim

L31mr0d wrote: »

Although, I would like to see the building of Ultra meter limited only to focus absorbs. I really don't see the need for the meter to build from merely getting hit. It should be something the player needs to work to unlock.

While it's an interesting idea, I don't agree with it. I think it make fireballs pretty much unused as you wouldn't want to give your oppenent ultra.

L31mr0d

HMUYA wrote: »

While it's an interesting idea, I don't agree with it. I think it make fireballs pretty much unused as you wouldn't want to give your oppenent ultra.

No it wouldn't. It gives people Ultra now and fireballs are still used, if anything the way it is used now gives most characters at least 2 Ultras per round if used wisely. It just takes the freebie aspect away from it. Plus using focus absorb would still cause your health to have to recharge, meaning you wouldn't be able to just keep using it or run the risk of a single jab eating up all your health.

Leprekaun

animaX wrote: »

Sounds like you play a character who doesn't have a very useful ultra! (guile, vega?!)

Otherwise, try to use yours to your advantage more often. Then you might like them more! It goes without saying that I love me some ultra :pac:

I think Guile's and Vega's ultras are quite good actually. Both are brilliant anti air moves and if timed right (Guile), you get all hits. In my opinion, Vega's is brilliant because you just need the other guy to jump and he's screwed.

In terms of execution, I found out a decent way of pulling them off . Charge DB, QCB, UF+Kx3. It works every time. I think there is a chance that I might be doing it a clockwise 270 degree motion starting from forward.

And as Vega once said:

"Handsome fighters never lose battles."

On the note of ultras, I don't think they're a bad idea. Like L31mr0d said, you just have to adjust your game when your opponent has it. True, for certain characters (Ryu, Sagat, Ken, Balrog and Bison) have ridiculously easy setups which I think Capcom need to revise but you just have to watch your step so to speak. Don't jump in, keep a close eye on their EX meter (minimum of 2 bars for Ryu/Ken/Sagat = Cr. MK, SRK/TU, FADC, Ultra). Balrog doesn't need EX meter ofcourse.

Another thing to be wary of is never go in for a throw or a combo after a knockdown because regardless of timing the throw or combo, you will always take the ultra right in the face.

I say keep ultras but just take away some setups.

Orim

Fireballs are still used because they are not the main way to gain ultra and thus zoning is still viable. I was wrong saying that fireballs would go away but I still think there would be a reduction in the use of the fireballs.

Anothere issue would be that a character with a good distance armour breaker and no fireball (Blanka, Honda) would become a lot more powerful.

If anything I would go the opposite direction and remove the ultra gain from the focus absorb. But then I think the system is pretty much alright as is except for the problems I mentioned earlier.

Sagat06

HMUYA wrote: »

Anothere issue would be that a character with a good distance armour breaker and no fireball (Blanka, Honda) would become a lot more powerful.

If anything I would go the opposite direction and remove the ultra gain from the focus absorb.

I'm failing to see your point

Blanka ball FTW

lazlo

I play Bison so I can tele away from ultras a lot of the time. Its just that there are certain chars like sagat or ryu who have ultras that are piss easy to land

Sagat06

On the other hand in Super they have the potential to really improve the situation.

As has been discussed there are certain characters who can set up an ultra with just about anything Ryu, Sagat and Rufus spring to mind. Then there are characters whose Ultra's are really powerful but really hard to link into anything, Blanka & Honda.

So a serious amount of balancing could be done here, the easily linked Ultra's could be made weaker and the difficult obviously stronger. This could be further balanced with the suggestions above where Focus builds one meter and hits build the other.

All that and nerf Sagat to the ground!

animaX

Sagat06 wrote: »

All that and nerf Sagat to the ground!

Down with that sort of thing! Careful now....

D4RK ONION

If Sagat gets nerfed you'll have nothing to tease animaX with!

Retr0gamer

He'll make like a rat and jump ship to the next top tier character!

lazlo

I think charge chars get of a raw deal in this dept too given that two quarter circles followed by a button is much quicker to execute than creating a charge, doing a double axis rock and then hitting a button.

Getting rid of the charge and leaving the move as a double axis rock followed by a button would balance the ultras somewhat

D4RK ONION

I actually think that's a good idea, But it's not too much hastle to hold your charge while you get ready to link into ultra. That said the big man has virtually no ultra setups other than focus>ultra.

Retr0gamer wrote: »

He'll make like a rat and jump ship to the next top tier character!

But isn't that your character?

Relikk

IMO the Ultra meter should take longer to build, and should be limited to one per round.

K.O.Kiki

The only thing I hate about Ultras right now is that it's done with 3 buttons.

Make it 2 buttons.

And maybe do a 3rd Strike system, where even charge characters have QCF, QCF Supers.

Relikk

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

The only thing I hate about Ultras right now is that it's done with 3 buttons.

Make it 2 buttons.

And maybe do a 3rd Strike system, where even charge characters have QCF, QCF Supers.

They'd have to alter the input for the EX system if it was two buttons, unless you had two specific keys for each system, like LP+MP for EX and MP+HP for Ultra. I think 3 buttons is fine, though.

Agreed about the simplified 3rd Strike QCFx2 style. I hate trying to link into charge character Super's.

K.O.Kiki

Nah, I'm just ragging on Ultra inputs because of my bad execution.
I've checked it in training mode; I will, 50% of the time, press D, D/F, F, D, D/F, F+PP~F+PPP.
So I get random Supers when I want Ultra. It really sucks.

But that's just me.

Also, EX & Ultra wouldn't overlap, as EX requires just one directional input (QCF) whereas Ultra requires 2 (QCF, QCF).

Relikk

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Also, EX & Ultra wouldn't overlap, as EX requires just one directional input (QCF) whereas Ultra requires 2 (QCF, QCF).

Of course, but what with dropped inputs in the online environment sometimes it doesn't matter what you have to do. As you alluded to above, 90% of the time my execution is fine for Ultra's but online, especially after an FADC an EX comes out instead.

Doctor DooM

I have no real problems with the Ultra system other than it's unbalanced slightly.


In fact I can often trick people into doing extremely stupid things with their Ultra and nail them thanks to it.

If I can say that, none of you have any grounds to complain

Xinkai

Sagat06 wrote: »

So a serious amount of balancing could be done here, the easily linked Ultra's could be made weaker and the difficult obviously stronger. This could be further balanced with the suggestions above where Focus builds one meter and hits build the other.

All that and nerf Sagat to the ground!

This was already done in SF4 though, it takes ryu 21 jabs to get his ultra, blanka 17. Also blanka's ultra is the most powerful ultra in the game when at full meter.

Yreval

If I could make one change to the ultra system it would be this - make it K-groove from CVS2. In other words, you have a time limit for executing the ultra - you can't just sit on it for the rest of the round.

Also, get rid of charge supers and ultras - Remy was able to do his SAs with two quarter circles, so why can't Guile?

K.O.Kiki

RopeDrink wrote: »

It also has absolutely NO setups whatsoever.

You say that like it's a bad thing!

Yreval wrote: »

If I could make one change to the ultra system it would be this - make it K-groove from CVS2. In other words, you have a time limit for executing the ultra - you can't just sit on it for the rest of the round.

Also, get rid of charge supers and ultras - Remy was able to do his SAs with two quarter circles, so why can't Guile?

I like this idea. Unfortunately, it'll never get implemented.

And it's quite obvious Capcom had a little hateorade for Guile in SFIV :rolleyes:

Dreddybajs

It links from cr. forward doesn't it?

Doctor DooM

RopeDrink wrote: »

In addition I can't understand the hate towards charge Ultras/Supers, Boxer's isn't that bad and in all fairness

Fixed that there for you.

Seriously to catch someone mid air with Guiles you have to have 2 second charge and hit it well before the apex of the jump. This means to anyone with half a brain you've telegraphed it by a mile.

The only possible link really workable in game is cmp - Super- Ultra which is never really going to happen because Guile needs the EX booms and flash.

Doctor DooM

Not buying it Ropedrink. When you've had someone back dash out of a focus attack and have time to block after you Ultra, come back to me

K.O.Kiki

Honda's Ultra has uses.

• Punishes wake-up FBs/bad meaties.
• Anti-air.
• Using hop Ultra to bait FBs & other attacks.

Guile's Ultra... not so much.
IMHO it probably wouldn't be so bad if it had HD's input (charge D/B, d, d/f, f, u/f + K)

D4RK ONION

Hop ultra?

Yeah, I know to use it as anti air and on wake up (love catching people with those) it has it's uses, but for a guy who also mains ryu, it's a huge jump link wise!

Jim

Honda can Ultra Cammy's EX c.strike.

Just FYI

D4RK ONION

*takes out notepad*

Honda... Ultra... EX.C.strike... FYI...

Got it!

Dreddybajs

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Honda's Ultra has uses.

• Anti-air.

Honda's ultra has like 60 frames startup it's probably the worst AA option he has

chopperbyrne

Jim wrote: »

Honda can Ultra Cammy's EX c.strike.

Just FYI

I think I did that to you at Gaelcon.

Dreddybajs wrote: »

Honda's ultra has like 60 frames startup it's probably the worst AA option he has

Hondas Ultra is definitely best used as an anti-air. Still not as good as an EX Headbutt though.

Orim

Capcom already appear to be killing off charge characters, we don't need to suggest that people don't want charge super/ultras.

Guiles ultra being dirt hasn't got much to do it being a charge move. If it was QCFx2 it would still be a bad ultra.

K.O.Kiki

RopeDrink wrote: »

Just for the sake of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ9rLEnzUG4

Nyom nyom Ultra Super nyom.

What's this?
Azza REPPING SAGAT?

TIER WHORE!! TIER WHOOOORE!!!!!1
:pac::pac:

animaX

RopeDrink wrote: »

Mostly because Azza knows how to play my Boxer like a puppet as far as his Bison is concerned) - Used Sagat three times, probably just for a laugh. If I remember right he threw in some Ryu too.

After all the abuse levelled at me, behind my back he's doin this. Azza, I hope you can sleep at night :pac:

Doctor DooM

animaX wrote: »

After all the abuse levelled at me, behind my back he's doin this. Azza, I hope you can sleep at night :pac:

Azza does this UNTIL you beat him. Then he gets all serious and busts out the Dic.

Tator

Doctor DooM

RopeDrink wrote: »

I remember the session quite well (and I'll assume it was one of the sessions 'AFTER' a previous one where I used to cry about how being beaten 10-0 was boring and had a little nerd rage session and quit - Mostly because Azza knows how to play my Boxer like a puppet as far as his Bison is concerned) - Used Sagat three times, probably just for a laugh. If I remember right he threw in some Ryu and Gen, too.

It was nice because anytime I see his Bison I just automatically accept there there is only a 0.1% chance I'd have the patience to even come close to being able to win (a round)



Thats more along the lines of what I was trying to put forward earlier - Ultras being charge based have little to no impact in difference when you compare it to the ease of QCF Ultras - The problem is more to do with the setups. Balrog doesn't have the problem because he has quite a lot of setup options and all of which give PLENTY of charge time to execute - Compare that to Honda or Guile and therein lies the problem - There's limited ways in which to put them to use, to the point where it wouldn't matter if you could use an Ultra by tapping a single button, it wouldn't help all that much at all.

Just to point out we actually agree. I accept if I am playing a charge character I have to be- pardon the unintentional insult- "cleverer" than qc characters as I move round the screen. Thats the pay off for an immediate recover projectile and an anti air which creates a huge glowing barrier between you and the enemy.

What I don't think is acceptable is that when I have the 2 second charge and somone jumps and I react with all the speed I can muster I might maybe land some damage.

Been playing a bit of Rufus lately (never again Bush!!!) to learn how to fight him and all you have to do in a few cases is land a jumping hk. His Ultra's fast enough to land.


That aint justice in my language.

bush

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Been playing a bit of Rufus lately (never again Bush!!!)

I think I might retire Rufus from tournament play, he let me down in the final :pac:

Owwmykneecap

Ultras ****ing suck.

Owwmykneecap

Been there done that my friend. Dont really want to thread old ground

Cunny-Funt

bush wrote: »

I think I might retire Rufus from tournament play, he let me down in the final :pac:

Shoulda picked chun! :P


& ropedrink I'm not surprised you love the ultras, your boxer goes for them every single round

I don't hate ultras, but I do think they happen too often, they should remove the option for that weaker one and it should only be allowed happen when the bar is TOTALLY full.

I also dislike how they take away from supers as I just love supers, the super canceling the way they can come off after a KO etc etc etc.

Yreval

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

I also dislike how they take away from supers as I just love supers, the super canceling the way they can come off after a KO etc etc etc.

That's something I forgot to mention in my post - there's not enough emphasis on supers in SF4. They should only require 3 EX bars instead of 4, so you can cancel an EX move to super.

craze7

Am i the only one that thinks the Ultra's are brutal?

You get rewarded for being beaten, nothing worse than beating some one for the whole round with out taking a hit when all a sudden he catchs you with an ultra and half your enery is gone!

It reminds me of MK V's DC rage mode which was horrible!

Placebo

ultras can only be performed at certain situations,
after FADC or some ex attack, theyre not easy to pull off, dont make mistakes that land you into an ultra.

mistake = punish
always street fighters case.

Retr0gamer

Then learn how to avoid being caught with an ultra. A blocked ultra will do feck all damage so if you know the opposing characters ultra set ups then just avoid being set up into an ultra. I like them since they can change how the second half of a match is played. For example I'm a ryu player so against chun when she gets ultra you have to stop your fireball game.

What I don't like is characters that have no set ups or poor ones for their ultras and these need to be changed in super street fighter 4.

K.O.Kiki

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055722162
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