Hunting Frustrations

BUACHAILL

Thankfully this doesnt happen all that much but here it goes.

I was out this morning for a shot, At first light the forest was perfect, A little windy no rain and a nice nip in the air. My enthusiasm was raised even more when I had just began my stalk when I heard a stag whistling his head off. Forest is basically on the side of a mountain and I was on the bottom half of it. I knew deer would be making their way up from the fields into cover so I got myself in great position early on. The stag who continued to whistle was no more than 200 yards away and in deep cover. I knew he would attract others so I didnt waste my time hacking through the gorse / cover etc so found myself a good hidden spot very close to a crossing.

I was waiting no more than 10 minutes when I saw a very good pricket making his way up from the lower forest / fields. I could see he was going up for the other stag so I waited till he was in a good clear position. As I looked down the scope at him I could see he wasnt hanging about so I took aim. He was semi broadside with his a.ss facing my direction but I had a nice clean shot in under the front shoulder. I normally only go neck but I know in this place you dont get to many chances so I took it on. He was about 100 yards away. I pulled the trigger and hit him clean. He made a lunge at the bank to go into the cover but couldnt get up and fell back out of sight into the grass. I gave him 10 mins and headed on up.

When I approached I couldnt see him, I knew / thought he couldnt go too far so wasnt worried. The forest falls quickly about 600 yards or so but is nicely open so lots of space and vision. I quickly got onto his blood trail. Good thick drops of red / pink blood then much heavier. This continued for about 250 yards across the hill to were the blood just stopped. I couldnt get back on it no matter what direction I looked and no sign of the deer. I spent 2 hours looking everywhere for him and then headed off. I called a friend of mine who has a very experienced dog and met him a few hours later. W e spent another 2 hours hitting every direction,going down as far as the bottom fields which is prob half a mile down. the dog was hot on the trail then we hit the river and nothing, also didnt help when we put up live deer and the dog went crazy !! Eventually I called it a day and im sitting here now p.issed that I didnt get him.

I hate not retrieving an animal, I m pretty sure I hit where I aimed but now I am doubting it. So here ismy question to you:

Do you think I done enough to retrieve or would others have kept going ?
Anybody think I just injured him etc please say I can take it

From experience and what I saw I know the deer is dead way too much blood but now I am thinking I only wounded it as I didnt find it. to be honest its a mystery to me and the guy who helped look for it. we would have over 50 years experience between us so I think I know better but still scratching my head.

Who else has stories like this ? Please share

Rant over ...sorry

jwshooter

when you got to the strike ,what part of the body were the pins from .
also why would you shoot a very good pricket.

BUACHAILL

I would shoot the pricket as I know for a fact that there is 3-4 really good 8 pointers in this wood and I rather keep them.
There was some flesh and thick dark pins, there was also lighter pins which i assume was from the exit !!

jwshooter

was the shot fired into him ,ie was he walking to you. use the shot clock to describe

BUACHAILL

He had turned slightly away from me, he originally was full on broadside and turned slightly away as he walked. Still had a very clear shot at him !!

IRLConor

Folks, would ye mind going back towards the topic? I've deleted a whole bunch of posts but ye keep replying to them as fast as I delete them!

jwshooter

BUACHAILL wrote: »

He had turned slightly away from me, he originally was full on broadside and turned slightly away as he walked. Still had a very clear shot at him !!

its very possible your shot went in behind the shoulder up along the ribs and out the chest .with out entering into the chest cavity. following up the animal straingt away would only push him on .
this would account for black neck hair and light color body hair .

i shot a red calf in scotland like that some years ago ,tell you now it went a long way before i ran it down to get a shot.

meathshooter

ive seen sika travel a good distance even when hit bang on broadside in the heart/lungs 300yrds is not uncommon

BUACHAILL

yeah I had felt afterwards I went after him too quickly but to be fair when you see it drop like that and then dont see it move again, I fully expected to just walk straight over to it.

I could have seen it run if I was on the blood too quickly as forest has very open ride lines and trees are big and mature so not much branch cover at all. I do think you might be right on the shot but what confuses me is the pinky blood, normally a sure sign of an organ hit , thats why I am at a loss to put pieces together

Off work tomorrow might head back there again

meathshooter

jwshooter wrote: »

its very possible your shot went in behind the shoulder up along the ribs and out the chest .with out entering into the chest cavity. following up the animal straingt away would only push him on .
this would account for black neck hair and light color body hair .

+1. what cal where you using

BUACHAILL

meathshooter wrote: »

ive seen sika travel a good distance even when hit bang on broadside in the heart/lungs 300yrds is not uncommon

yeah me too and I have followed up on some Sika a lot further than 300 yards. I coverd a huge circumference today of all possibilities, maybe a couple of miles in total.

jwshooter

BUACHAILL wrote: »

yeah I had felt afterwards I went after him too quickly but to be fair when you see it drop like that and then dont see it move again, I fully expected to just walk straight over to it.

I could have seen it run if I was on the blood too quickly as forest has very open ride lines and trees are big and mature so not much branch cover at all. I do think you might be right on the shot but what confuses me is the pinky blood, normally a sure sign of an organ hit , thats why I am at a loss to put pieces together

Off work tomorrow might head back there again

yes the pink blood could be caused by a the bullet only slightly entering the rib cage .
what cal and bullet were you using .

also your post is very honest ,i have made every fxxk up over the years .when you find the animal skin it off and post a pic and details of distance etc .

BUACHAILL

jwshooter wrote: »

yes the pink blood could be caused by a the bullet only slightly entering the rib cage .
what cal and bullet were you using .

also your post is very honest ,i have made every fxxk up over the years .when you find the animal skin it off and post a pic and details of distance etc .

Thanks jwshooter

I really think we should discuss these things, we can only learn from it and hopefully limit the number of times it happens. We all say how great we are when we do well but everyone knows it doesnt always work out that way even though intentions are always in the right place..touchy touchy subject I know but this is also hunting.

I shoot a Sako 85 .308 and find it brilliant

It wasn't me!

Spot on. Never made a hash of it yet, but have no doubt that it'll happen sooner or later. I think all we can do is respond to it as best we can. The work you put into trying to correct your mistakes decides whether you're a suitable ambassador for the sport.

BUACHAILL

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Spot on. Never made a hash of it yet, but have no doubt that it'll happen sooner or later. I think all we can do is respond to it as best we can. The work you put into trying to correct your mistakes decides whether you're a suitable ambassador for the sport.

I guess, if it is an actual mistake !! I hope to find that out soon enough

JDBLASER

jwshooter wrote: »

its very possible your shot went in behind the shoulder up along the ribs and out the chest .with out entering into the chest cavity. following up the animal straingt away would only push him on .
this would account for black neck hair and light color body hair .

i shot a red calf in scotland like that some years ago ,tell you now it went a long way before i ran it down to get a shot.

+1
has happened to me before, I took a rushed shot at a stag a couple of years ago at "10 o clock" and the bullet went in behind the shoulder and out thru the chest without hitting anything vital. I was very lucky to get a fast follow up shot that did the job but without it he would have gone a long way.. Dont think you could have done anything more today to find him.. Maybe have a look tomorrow if you have time? Watch out for magpies and grey crows. Bad luck.

jwshooter

BUACHAILL wrote: »

Thanks jwshooter

I really think we should discuss these things, we can only learn from it and hopefully limit the number of times it happens. We all say how great we are when we do well but everyone knows it doesnt always work out that way even though intentions are always in the right place..touchy touchy subject I know but this is also hunting.

I shoot a Sako 85 .308 and find it brilliant

what bullet BUACHAILL

BUACHAILL

jwshooter wrote: »

what bullet BUACHAILL

Using Federal Fusion 150 grain, I find they do the job

meathshooter

jwshooter wrote: »

what bullet BUACHAILL

taking a guess I would say fmj but I could be wrong they dont expand enough

kowloon

Just out of interest, is there any point in finding it tomorrow?

JDBLASER

kowloon wrote: »

Just out of interest, is there any point in finding it tomorrow?

Just for personal satisfaction.. Peace of mind knowing its dead and to find out where it was hit. We have to learn from our mistakes.

BUACHAILL

kowloon wrote: »

Just out of interest, is there any point in finding it tomorrow?

yes for me there is every point
I will know exactly where I hit the deer and it will confirm if I hit it correctly or not. It will also be off the forest floor and wont be a hazard to anyone else.

meathshooter

BUACHAILL wrote: »

yes for me there is every point
I will know exactly where I hit the deer and it will confirm if I hit it correctly or not. It will also be off the forest floor and wont be a hazard to anyone else.

I would say without a doubt that he was mortaly shot was he alert in any way to your presence before the shot

kowloon

I understand that, I once spent several hours crawling around gorse for a fox I was sure should have dropped, broadsided it and he flipped over and rolled, but got up and darted.

Is there a legal obligation to find a deer if you assign tags to them or the likes? I'm not entirely sure how deer hunting works.

BUACHAILL

meathshooter wrote: »

I would say without a doubt that he was mortaly shot was he alert in any way to your presence before the shot

No he had no idea I was there before or after the shot
I know the deer is dead the more I think about it but because I havent found him I am doubting myself and I shouldnt really. I would generally be very accurate with my shots be it on deer or in the range and I always keep my eye in.

But I can make mistakes like anyone else so it is a possibility I did miss even though when I fired I felt very happy about the hit

4gun

I shot a young sika deer last year at 100yds broad side into his chest just behind his sholder, he droped on the spot only to bounce straight up off the ground , he ran straight down at the bush where I was hiding and I fired again at 5 yards distance killing him before he hit the ground... on the fist shot I was absolutely certain that I hit I took my time I did every thing right or so i thought I concluded that i missed until i took him home and skined him the second bullet hit him in the sholder bone and shattered it completely and made its exit out past the front of the opposite sholder no bullet to be found but inside the skin behind the same sholder I found my first bullet .... soft round i'm told or damp powder and missed every vital organ in the area a 308 at 200 yds will leave an exit hole about 1" in diameter
until I found that bullet I was absolutely positive that I had missed with the first shot and if the deer hadn't run at he I never would have got him

jwshooter

4gun wrote: »

I shot a young sika deer last year at 100yds broad side into his chest just behind his sholder, he droped on the spot only to bounce straight up off the ground , he ran straight down at the bush where I was hiding and I fired again at 5 yards distance killing him before he hit the ground... on the fist shot I was absolutely certain that I hit I took my time I did every thing right or so i thought I concluded that i missed until i took him home and skined him the second bullet hit him in the sholder bone and shattered it completely and made its exit out past the front of the opposite sholder no bullet to be found but inside the skin behind the same sholder I found my first bullet .... soft round i'm told or damp powder and missed every vital organ in the area a 308 at 200 yds will leave an exit hole about 1" in diameter
until I found that bullet I was absolutely positive that I had missed with the first shot and if the deer hadn't run at he I never would have got him

your deer was dead with the first shot .if you shot it broad side behind the shoulder .

soft round or damp powder im not sure what you mean

ejg

BUACHAILL wrote: »

Using Federal Fusion 150 grain, I find they do the job

They normally mushroom like in a picture book. I had one fail on me though. A slightly quartering towards me sika hind and hit shoulder, the bullet split, turned and there where two exits in the gut. One left side and one right side. The deer was down 100yds on. Since then I just avoid the shoulder with any caliber.
Don't think it was caliber or bullet in your case. Just unlucky shot placement.
edi

4gun

jwshooter wrote: »

your deer was dead with the first shot .if you shot it broad side behind the shoulder .

the way he was running he would have kept going till he died of exhaustion


soft round or damp powder im not sure what you mean

faulty bullet low power this bullet hit no bone and did not make an exit wound it was a core loked remmy 150 gr usually make a great big exit hole,

jwshooter

4gun wrote: »

faulty bullet low power this bullet hit no bone and did not make an exit wound it was a core loked remmy 150 gr usually make a great big exit hole,

usually ? how many deer have you killed using this round/cal

4gun

jwshooter wrote: »

usually ? how many deer have you killed using this round/cal

including that one 4 took 3 rounds on a big stag although he was dead with the first one ...he just didnt realise it:D

BUACHAILL

ejg wrote: »

They normally mushroom like in a picture book. I had one fail on me though. A slightly quartering towards me sika hind and hit shoulder, the bullet split, turned and there where two exits in the gut. One left side and one right side. The deer was down 100yds on. Since then I just avoid the shoulder with any caliber.
Don't think it was caliber or bullet in your case. Just unlucky shot placement.
edi

Well was back out this morning. Spent another 3 hours and searched everywhere again and even went into the really dense gorse were I spent over an hour on my hands and kness. No joy. I have settled on the fact now that I didnt hit any vital organs but I do know the deer is dead as of the blood loss and it wouldnt have taken too long either so all in all a lesson learned.

I wont be taking on any more body shots and shouldnt have taken it on in the first place. Would rather miss a neck shot than know I killed one and cant find it, but dont think I could have done much more.

Just thought I would update you all

4gun

your experience will help other beginners to not make the same mistake, don't beat your self up about it, as it happens to everybody no matter what animal they're shooting

jwshooter

taking a shot on a chest shot on a animal walking into or way ,even quartering is a accident in the making .

with the 308 using a 150gr soft point ,you did not get expansion ,the bullet going between the shoulder and chest had no resistance .

if your going to start necking everything that bullet is not suitable ,you want some thing lighter and faster or at least a ballistic tip.

there is a picture of the shot clock in the hcap manual its a basic guide for shot placement.

would there be much call for a stalkers course in ireland .

BUACHAILL

jwshooter wrote: »

taking a shot on a chest shot on a animal walking into or way ,even quartering is a accident in the making .

with the 308 using a 150gr soft point ,you did not get expansion ,the bullet going between the shoulder and chest had no resistance .

if your going to start necking everything that bullet is not suitable ,you want some thing lighter and faster or at least a ballistic tip.

there is a picture of the shot clock in the hcap manual its a basic guide for shot placement.

would there be much call for a stalkers course in ireland .

Ok guys just to confirm a few things here.

Firstly I am not a beginner and have been shooting 15 years( not a long time compared to others granted ). Of this time I am shooting deer 8 of them and this is the first animal I have not retrieved. I was one of the first people to do the HCAP and take this sport / way of life seriously. I am a part of a rifle club with very expereinced hunters / target shooters and would be regarded as one of the more accurate shooters. I do not take snap shots and my strike rate has been flawless up until yesterday not bad for 8 years. I have killed deer with neck shots in all this time and started with a 6.5 x 55. I have always used this bullet with my .308 and has worked great up until yesterday. There has been 2-3 other occasions where I have taken body shots and have had no problems, that was back in the 6.5 x 55 days.

jwsooter I understand the shot clock, My deer was at 7 oclock. I do think you have a point on the bullet and its something I am am gonna look at changing. Have you any suggestions ??. My whole reason for this post was to get these type of ideas that might help me in the future.

I do feel there is a need for a stalking course in Ireland, I think certain people have forgotten the whole ethiquette of what it is, and for beginners to the sport its essential

Thanks again

bunny shooter

BUACHAILL wrote: »

Thankfully this doesnt happen all that much but here it goes.

I was out this morning for a shot, At first light the forest was perfect, A little windy no rain and a nice nip in the air. My enthusiasm was raised even more when I had just began my stalk when I heard a stag whistling his head off. Forest is basically on the side of a mountain and I was on the bottom half of it. I knew deer would be making their way up from the fields into cover so I got myself in great position early on. The stag who continued to whistle was no more than 200 yards away and in deep cover. I knew he would attract others so I didnt waste my time hacking through the gorse / cover etc so found myself a good hidden spot very close to a crossing.

I was waiting no more than 10 minutes when I saw a very good pricket making his way up from the lower forest / fields. I could see he was going up for the other stag so I waited till he was in a good clear position. As I looked down the scope at him I could see he wasnt hanging about so I took aim. He was semi broadside with his a.ss facing my direction but I had a nice clean shot in under the front shoulder. I normally only go neck but I know in this place you dont get to many chances so I took it on. He was about 100 yards away. I pulled the trigger and hit him clean. He made a lunge at the bank to go into the cover but couldnt get up and fell back out of sight into the grass. I gave him 10 mins and headed on up.

When I approached I couldnt see him, I knew / thought he couldnt go too far so wasnt worried. The forest falls quickly about 600 yards or so but is nicely open so lots of space and vision. I quickly got onto his blood trail. Good thick drops of red / pink blood then much heavier. This continued for about 250 yards across the hill to were the blood just stopped. I couldnt get back on it no matter what direction I looked and no sign of the deer. I spent 2 hours looking everywhere for him and then headed off. I called a friend of mine who has a very experienced dog and met him a few hours later. W e spent another 2 hours hitting every direction,going down as far as the bottom fields which is prob half a mile down. the dog was hot on the trail then we hit the river and nothing, also didnt help when we put up live deer and the dog went crazy !! Eventually I called it a day and im sitting here now p.issed that I didnt get him.

I hate not retrieving an animal, I m pretty sure I hit where I aimed but now I am doubting it. So here ismy question to you:

Do you think I done enough to retrieve or would others have kept going ?
Anybody think I just injured him etc please say I can take it

From experience and what I saw I know the deer is dead way too much blood but now I am thinking I only wounded it as I didnt find it. to be honest its a mystery to me and the guy who helped look for it. we would have over 50 years experience between us so I think I know better but still scratching my head.

Who else has stories like this ? Please share

Rant over ...sorry

What range are you zeroed for? What distance was the pricket away from you? Were you shooting across very uneven ground eg a valley or dead ground? And how much of a slope were you shooting up/down?

BUACHAILL

I was level with the Pricket about 100 yards away (roughlly but defo not any further). My rifle is zeroed for 100 yards. The Pricket came up through the bottom forest, he was on level ground (roadlike), its about 15 yards wide of level grass / odd gorse bush etc and then he needed to climb a bank to get upto the next forest.

Originally he was full on broadside when cominmg out of the bottom forest onto the grass, as he walked across he then turned slightly as he approached the bank. I had a good 5-10 seconds to focus on my shot, Plenty of time to make my shot

bunny shooter

OK just that if it was up/down hill there is a variance on point of zero or judging distance over "dead" ground up/down hill or across valleys plays havoc on range estimation.

Bullet might be the place to start from everything else you've said

4gun

BUACHAILL wrote: »

Ok guys just to confirm a few things here.

Firstly I am not a beginner and have been shooting 15 years( not a long time compared to others granted ). Of this time I am shooting deer 8 of them and this is the first animal I have not retrieved. I was one of the first people to do the HCAP and take this sport / way of life seriously. I am a part of a rifle club with very expereinced hunters / target shooters and would be regarded as one of the more accurate shooters. I do not take snap shots and my strike rate has been flawless up until yesterday not bad for 8 years. I have killed deer with neck shots in all this time and started with a 6.5 x 55. I have always used this bullet with my .308 and has worked great up until yesterday. There has been 2-3 other occasions where I have taken body shots and have had no problems, that was back in the 6.5 x 55 days.

jwsooter I understand the shot clock, My deer was at 7 oclock. I do think you have a point on the bullet and its something I am am gonna look at changing. Have you any suggestions ??. My whole reason for this post was to get these type of ideas that might help me in the future.

I do feel there is a need for a stalking course in Ireland, I think certain people have forgotten the whole ethiquette of what it is, and for beginners to the sport its essential

Thanks again

Sorry Buachaill it was my post that gave that impression but i was thinking of how your experience has made me more aware of this situation
it does make you think

jwshooter

it happens ,the more deer you kill the more the chance of a accident ,but the more you kill the better your able to deal with your **** up .

a strong dog is your best stalking aid , my wire hairs have recovered my mistakes many times .
i lost one hind last season that was neck shot from 70 odd yards .

i do think the hcap ,should have forgot about section 42s and concentrated more on shot reaction and how to read pins .
there was only one question on it when i done the test on shot reaction

bunny shooter

Only other thing is judging distance along say a tree lined road will play havoc with your range estimation too

If I remember rightly would make the deer in this case seem closer than it was ? Although tbh within 150-200 yards this should make no difference to the 308 ?

4gun

[odd yards .

i do think the hcap ,should have forgot about section 42s and concentrated more on shot reaction and how to read pins .

can you explain "pins" and the reading there of... what is it tracks left by deer

DR6.5

JW was refering to deer hair when talking about pins.

kowloon

A thread explaining deer hunting in Ireland would be greatly appreciated, I know nothing about it, the law or the techniques, and I would like to know more.

clivej

kowloon wrote: »

A thread explaining deer hunting in Ireland would be greatly appreciated, I know nothing about it, the law or the techniques, and I would like to know more.

Here's a very good place to start explains a lot.

The Deer Commision of Scottland
http://www.dcs.gov.uk/default.aspx


And the best practice guides from them
http://www.bestpracticeguides.org.uk/

jwshooter

bunny shooter wrote: »

Only other thing is judging distance along say a tree lined road will play havoc with your range estimation too

If I remember rightly would make the deer in this case seem closer than it was ? Although tbh within 150-200 yards this should make no difference to the 308 ?

when i started stalking i used a S/B 6x42 with reticle no7 .if i could fit a mature hind into the main part if the cross hairs so was no more than 150 yards if my memory severs me right .

mostly you will know to look at the animal up to 150yds after that silly shxt happens ,iv been miles off at times.

bunny shooter

jwshooter wrote: »

when i started stalking i used a S/B 6x42 with reticle no7 .if i could fit a mature hind into the main part if the cross hairs so was no more than 150 yards if my memory severs me right .

mostly you will know to look at the animal up to 150yds after that silly shxt happens ,iv been miles off at times.

I use the same principal shooting bunnies if I'm not using my range finder. I usualy shoot on 6 x also and I "know" by the size of the bunny how far away he /she is out to approx 100 yards and as you say this is from experience. But as you say sometimes things don't work out. Fortunately not too often though

BUACHAILL

4gun wrote: »

Sorry Buachaill it was my post that gave that impression but i was thinking of how your experience has made me more aware of this situation
it does make you think

No problem at all I thought it was important to also give a back ground of my experience !!

I agree with jwshooter the hcap should have forgotten about section 42's and everything that goes with it as its not essential while out in the field. I also think that the hcap should have been paired/guided more on the dmq courses as these are a lot more detailed, informative and beneficial. You would not participate in dmq unless you were serious about your sport as it is quite demanding where if I am honest the hcap would not be that challenging even to a beginner and its nothing with an hour or two of study in the books and the range you could not pass, not enough in my opinion.

Just my tupence worth

jwshooter

:eek:

BUACHAILL wrote: »

No problem at all I thought it was important to also give a back ground of my experience !!

I agree with jwshooter the hcap should have forgotten about section 42's and everything that goes with it as its not essential while out in the field. I also think that the hcap should have been paired/guided more on the dmq courses as these are a lot more detailed, informative and beneficial. You would not participate in dmq unless you were serious about your sport as it is quite demanding where if I am honest the hcap would not be that challenging even to a beginner and its nothing with an hour or two of study in the books and the range you could not pass, not enough in my opinion.

Just my tupence worth

i was photo copying my DMQ last nite to put in with my applications ,its just 10 years ago i done it .

we done it in wicklow with blue thomas and Dominic griffiths there was 12 or so of us ,including npws rangers ,professional deer mangers ,game keeper s.

it lasted a week ,of a class room type lectures, plenty of slides ,pictures and discussion among the participants.

i learned a lot from this ,talking about the animal its self ,its life ,what it requires to live,how to best manage the deer you have .

how best to cull them ,the safe use of rifles ,dogs ,shot reaction, follow up .
there is 20 different types of hair on a deers body ,how to read the pins.

there has to be pins at the sight of the strike.

on the friday we done a test and a range test .

i also done the DMQ 2 .which involves culling animals ,looking for disease, gralloching skills, larder work ,safety in the work place etc.

the hcap missed out on all this .with its trick questions ,silly questions,and its poor attitude to deer in general.

the hcap was about how to kill as many deer night or day summer or winter as possible.
the safety part of the range test is done on a lap top for feck sake.it should be done in the field or at least on the range.
the only thing i learned from it is a sika stag cant give a alarm whistle. wrong and there is a lot of lads that can talk the talk but cant walk the walk.

BUACHAILL

jwshooter wrote: »

:eek:

i was photo copying my DMQ last nite to put in with my applications ,its just 10 years ago i done it .

we done it in wicklow with blue thomas and Dominic griffiths there was 12 or so of us ,including npws rangers ,professional deer mangers ,game keeper s.

it lasted a week ,of a class room type lectures, plenty of slides ,pictures and discussion among the participants.

i learned a lot from this ,talking about the animal its self ,its life ,what it requires to live,how to best manage the deer you have .

how best to cull them ,the safe use of rifles ,dogs ,shot reaction, follow up .
there is 20 different types of hair on a deers body ,how to read the pins.

there has to be pins at the sight of the strike.

on the friday we done a test and a range test .

i also done the DMQ 2 .which involves culling animals ,looking for disease, gralloching skills, larder work ,safety in the work place etc.

the hcap missed out on all this .with its trick questions ,silly questions,and its poor attitude to deer in general.

the hcap was about how to kill as many deer night or day summer or winter as possible.
the safety part of the range test is done on a lap top for feck sake.it should be done in the field or at least on the range.
the only thing i learned from it is a sika stag cant give a alarm whistle. wrong and there is a lot of lads that can talk the talk but cant walk the walk.

I have to fully agree with all that. Just goes to show you that the true intentions of the hcap is not in the animal but in the money it makes from them, It was strung together with more revenue in mind and that is hugely transparent, good idea created and carried out by the wrong people IMO

JDBLASER

jwshooter wrote: »

:eek:


the safety part of the range test is done on a lap top for feck sake.it should be done in the field or at least on the range.



Was up at HCAP test recently with some mates and there was no safety test afterwards at all this time.. Also anyone that failed the range test was allowed to repeat it as many times as was needed to pass it.. Whats the point of a test if its impossible to fail??? Oh other than to make money but im sure thats not the case with the HCAP.