So... My Sub Ran Out...

RopeDrink

...And to be quite honest I can't see much reason to renew it. Cataclysm, for me at least, is the least appealing Expansion - I'm one of those stubborn old-schoolers who don't like the idea of every race being able to play every class (though I understand why they're doing it), not too bothered with the new upcoming races and not in the least bit interested in the watered down version of what I'm used to nor the new content.

This is neither a goodbye nor a QQ post - Infact, I was curious to know how other people (beit those who quit, or are inclined to take the odd break) enjoy spending non-WoW time.

I'm talking outside of "Enjoy X, Y, Z of RealLife(tm)" as thats something I've not neglected, thankfully, so let's keep it game related.

I've been a gamer since I was seven, ever since I got my C64 and started playing/making/dabbling with games and in some shape or form I always had some form of RPG on the side to get my fix, from Diablo I & II, Gothic I & 2, countless others - When I had WoW that pretty much handled that side of gaming and I haven't really touched RPG's since though I suspect when it comes to games and if I don't return to WoW in some form then I'll want my fix.

From the Free Games Thread in the Games Forum I burned a day or two on DenOfMonsters 2 for a laugh and just came across a free MMO called DragonSky (From a company who already have several other largely 'free' MMO's and other such games out there though I can't see myself sticking to any such MMO's longterm as they often don't have a lot of depth to them and often thrive on in-game ploys to wrestle cash from it's playerbase) - Most of my game-time lately has gone towards SF4 and non-RPG games, even steamrolled through DeadSpace, NecroVision and some others for good measure but I get the impression I'll be looking to upgrade my CPU and, if I move on from WoW, head to new territory though as said, without WoW, I'll likely have a big RPG//MMORPG void to fill - Curious to know what everyone else plays or suggests outside of WoW, beit free-games or purchases or, failing that, what people have done since they quit the game.

Overheal

I let my 30 days run out there. havent had a craving to play or anything.

Kinda like always buying a pack of smokes and throwing half away. I binge too much. Might buy a gamecard when im feeling antsy but i couldnt see myself subbing.

Kiith

I've been unsubbed for over a month now and i've no interest in coming back. Might come back for Cataclysm, but we'll see.

][cEMAN**

I just leave the sub going either way. Even when I stop playing for a while. I did the same with Galaxies - I didn't quit paying for that for about a year.

I don't see the point in just trying to cut myself off from something i'm not 100% gone from. When i'm gone, I stop it, but until that point I know I can come back, and the sub just makes it easier to step in, rather than having to set it up again.

Really, it's not that much a month. 3 pints worth.

There's always a chance something will spark my interest anew, and playing games fills some time when i'm not doing other things. Right now, there aren't many other games out there I would play. These days it's more look over playability. Something old game designers used to know was the wrong way to look at it.

TechnoPool

same ive let my sub run out just in WOTLK i find it even worse than TBC.

BG's and arena are terrible with the insane dmg that people can output dunno how many times ive killed people from 100-0 in a few seconds and had the same done to me even with 800+ resili. Its about the class now and not the player.

Raids are mind numbing ive only done them for gear.


Making a new charcter was a slight improvement but when you get them to 80 its the same ****e again.

but ye its really just something to kill time with for me atm.

2 Espressi

I still haven't got to 80yet so maybe it's different for me, but I had not BB at home for the last month, and I didn't miss Wow nearly as much as I thought I would. Firs tthis I did when I got back online? check my bank alt for any unexpired goodies. I went back playing my main toon, and it was like I couldn't remember how to stay alive, I kept getting killed. I tinkered with my rogue for a while and rolled a shammy to see what it was like, but I've begun to wonder what all the fus was about...

Anti

My sub is due to run out on the 11th of november, and i can't see myself getting another game card. There seems to be no challenge left in the game in terms of pve, pvp is completely unbalanced. Epics are handed out to the scrubbiest of scrubs for the least ammount of effort. Maybe im just burned out, but i think alot of things are going to have to change before i even consider coming back !

fatjebus

My guilds done everything there is to do in the current content, yes that's including yogg+0 and togc25 there's nothing that appealing to me bar pvp on my dk that keeps me going and even that's only 10 games a week now.

I'm finding myself spending a lot of time on HoN heroesofnewerth.com for anyone interested in it. Closed beta at the moment, but its basically an upgraded version of dota, more or less the same heroes but with some tweaks to iron out, its really enjoyable I suggest you give it a try.

not sunzz honest.

Karl Hungus

I got very fed up and let me sub run out for a while not so long ago. Honestly, patch 3.1 Ulduar pissed me off to no extent, and I was quite frustrated and exhausted by the game. Thankfully 3.2 renewed my interest, because they actually showed some love for Warrior tanks this patch.

I remember being incredibly excited about how big an overhaul prot had in 3.0, and it felt like the spec was just brimming with awesomeness in comparison to what it was before. I was astounded at how I could bring my tank into PVP and come out winning. Shield Wall being a 5 minute cooldown instead of 30 minutes seemed really new and shiny. But when all the other tanks have 2 and one minute cooldowns, something just isn't right there. And you know, before 3.1 the content was so easy I really didn't notice any drawbacks to the class at all, if there was flaws in warrior design they didn't make much difference because anyone who was capable of tanking could just go and fly through Naxxramas without any hassle. Ulduar was a very different experience though, and it seemed like most encounters had been built around Death Knights. I still remember tanking Vezax as a warrior was a nigh-on devastating experience every time. His big slow melee swing means I got absolutely no rage at all if I dodged or parried one of his attacks, so a few times I'd be rage starved right at the beginning of the pull and DPS would get aggro. As he wasn't tauntable, I couldn't get aggro back, and he'd twat about 5 or 6 melee.

Sarth 3D was an obvious indicator of where Warriors really fell behind as tanks, but seeing as it was something that the guild I was in at the time wasn't doing, I just didn't see it. But the way Blizzard went about addressing the issues of prot warriors was just ridiculous. Instead of simply bringing our cooldowns inline with other classes, they gave us a band-aid fix in the shape of the glyph of Shield Wall (which has to be used with 2 talent points in Improved Disciplines before it's useful), the glyph of Last Stand, and for our lacking magic mitigation they gave us the 4 set T8 bonus. So theoretically, a warrior who was geared out in 4/5 T8 with those glyphs could tank Sarth. It's a bit ****ed when a Warrior has to have geared up in 3.1 gear that should have you ready for the next tier of content in order to be able to tank the last tier's content. And once you got some decent gear, it was a nightmare to tank heroics because of complete rage starvation, and almost no AOE threat to speak of.

If we hadn't got the buffs in 3.2 I think I would've quit. There's a lot of issues that were thankfully addressed. Rage on avoidance makes an absolutely huge difference, especially when tanking heroics, and the buff to devastate was a great increase to single target threat. That, and little things like Bloodrage giving 20 rage (up from 10) just made tanking as a Warrior much less frustrating. I've never had a single issue from Vezax since, having the opening rage, and threat from Devastate to build sufficient aggro right from the start. One of the changes was an absolutely excellent addition, the Glyph of Command. I can't tell you how much of a boon that felt, because having Commanding Shout fall off mid-fight was terrible, and having to rebuff every 2 minutes, it was just awful. It's such a small little thing, but it's terrific. Rage on avoidance actually made a huge improvement to AOE threat as well, because I actually have the rage to use Cleave in heroics now.

I'm still very frustrated with how Blizz are "balancing" tanks right now. They were perfectly happy to let Death Knights be far and away the best tank right up until 3.2 before nerfing them down into the ground. Now they've buffed the Paladin class to the position of best tank by far. Crazy unkillable power rangers. It's like they're playing musical chairs with which class gets to be grossly overpowered.

The current guild I'm in had a Paladin maintank who recently quit playing, and I couldn't believe it when he solo tanked the entire TotC10 normal instance, and we did it in about 25 minutes. 1 tank, 2 healers and 7 DPS, for which I was fury. While tanking Gormok, he bubbled the stacks of impale off himself, and managed to pick up aggro again right away. The entire encounter is supposed to be tanked with two tanks, apart from Icehowl, but he did the entire thing, picking up 2 Jormungars without issue, the valkyr, and adds on the other encounters. It was a ridiculous display, and I doubt a Warrior would be able to do the same, even if there was a pally in the group who could bubble the impale stacks off. Paladin tanks are absolutely ridiculous this patch, and there's no signs of that going to change for 3.3.

Warriors are still in some state at the moment, we've the lowest scaling HP of any tank, and while that was ok at the beginning of the expansion because we had a ranged slot that gave us some 70-odd stamina, it's absolutely beyond a joke now. I've got 2 premade characters on the PTR at the moment, a Warrior and a Paladin, and I decked them out with nearly the same gear, gems and enchants, and the difference between the unbuffed HP of each character is nearly 2k in favor of the Paladin. It's a bit sick. I've had quite a few people telling me to reroll and saying 'Broken class', but we've had 2 paladin tanks quit playing now since 3.2 in my guild, so I guess not being able to die gets boring.

I made a comment to one of the paladins in my guild today, I said I hope the nerf bat hits paladins in the spine and you have to tank in a wheelchair.

To tell the truth though, I am really enjoying 3.2 at the moment, despite my paladin rage. I'm looking forward to 3.3 greatly, because my goal in WoW is to kill Arthas, so I doubt I'd really have quit before then. Lore wise I'm not seeing much interesting in Cataclysm, so probably after I've killed arthas I'll stop raiding at least.

][cEMAN**

They got lucky Karl. Those tanks got into a guild who wasn't so retarded that they stuck to the singular thought of warrior tanks > all because of Vanilla/TBC, and went with what worked best. I'm still stuck being considered 2nd fiddle to other tanks when I join a guild, because the others are warriors who are OBVIOUSLY far superior this patch...

Maybe paladins do need nerfed again. It wouldn't be so bad, unless they get the usual paladin nerf bat swing that takes them way below every other class for each of their roles. As soon as they stepped out infront with dps, *BANG* nerf, and they wen't down the list of dps to below other classes in blues/greens. Great MT healers? *BANG* nerf their regen so they can't use so many big heals on the tanks, and give them an unreliable HoT to make up for it. Paladins viable MTs? Get ready for the *BANG*.

I don't think they're capable of making every class equal, without making each class effectively the same. So they give everyone a chance in the spotlight.

Karl Hungus

' wrote:

[cEMAN**;62712867']I don't think they're capable of making every class equal, without making each class effectively the same.

You see, I don't believe that equal means identical. Different classes having completely different mechanics and abilities is what makes them unique, and what makes them feel and play differently. But each class capable of tanking has a few basics that are more of less identical, a high health pool, extra mitigation and threat for tanking, and defensive cooldowns. Those should be more or less the same. Shield Wall does the exact same thing as Divine Protection already, but doesn't make the classes the same. It does make one noticeably inferior when one class gets their 2 minute cooldown as standard with 50% damage reduction, when the other class has to spend a major glyph slot, 2 talent points, and it offers only 40% damage reduction.

It's only those basics, the health pools, mitigation and cooldowns that need balancing and need to be equal. Everything else that makes up how the class feels and plays can and should remain as unique as they are now. 40% compared to 50% damage reduction doesn't make the class play any different, neither does the size of your health pool, so it will continue to make no difference to if those aspects were more or less equal.

Now I say more or less equal, because that's really all it needs to be. Lets say like at the start of the expansion, where a warrior's higher base health and ranged slot roughly made up the difference between a Paladin's superior stamina scaling. A warrior doesn't need the same percentage of scaling as a paladin, just enough so they're within reach of each other again, maybe an increase of 4% over what's current. But the situation of where the two tanks can sit in almost identical gear, and there's a disparity of nearly 2k just isn't right.

][cEMAN**

But it's the silmilarities that are the same which make the classes almost identical. A little here, vs a little there. You have to glyph for the shield wall, we have to glyph for more threat.

When it comes to non tank raid leaders, and general PUG****ery, or certain guild recruitment, shield wall vs divine protection is all the same to them - 2m high % CD vs 2m high % CD.

Consider from the tank point of view - certain classes we rely on. Healers. Druid HoT vs Shaman vs Holy priest. Heals still come in the same way. Disc priest vs holy paladin - heals still come in the same way. The classes are different, but to people outside of the roll, they're essentially the same.

I'm not really talking here of it's only about how you see it from outside of the class, and it changes when you roll it yourself, but rather the response you get as that class, by everyone outside of it. How you interact with people in this game is just as important as how you play it yourself. It's pidgeon holing - it's type casting - it's fitting blocks in tetris. Warrior tanks once stood out as the **** when it came to MT. That's changed. I'm greatful for it, but it was the last time tanks were defined in any way seperate. Now you'll hear everyone shouting "My tanking class is the best", as much as you hear every dps class shouting "My class does the most dps". It's all relative to gear, player ability, etc - but effectively they're all the same. Tank/DPS/Healer.

The only thing that really seperated DPS classes were their unique abilities. Certain types of CC. Buffs, debuffs, and boss mechanics. They took that away to make the game more playable, and when we seemed to want it back, they leveled the playing field by giving 2-3 classes the same unique ability 1 class originally had.

Eventually they will blur the lines so much that it'll be as meaningful picking a different class to play in your TANK/DPS/HEALER roll, as it is picking which race to roll it as - which is another thing they're making even for everyone. As Ropeh said, it was better when you knew certain races could only be certain classes. It pushed everyone to having to roll different races and have a bit of diversity. Otherwise, I guarantee you, you'll have people with 10 different classes, all BE, or undead. "I like undead, it's cool" - so you have undead everything.

The only slightly interesting outcome of that would be things like specific race guilds. All BE, orc, tauren etc. If you want to join us, you have to change your race. It's only £xx so not a big deal...

Personally i'm sticking with the game. It might stumble upon something that'll make it more acceptable to me, and others like me. If not, i'll flog a dead horse for a while. It's a few wasted months on 1 game rather than another. Not a big deal. But you've got to play the game to try out what they're doing and decide for yourself if you like it or not. You can sit there in your armchairs, and have your armchair conversations, and armchair ideas, but unless you play the game each time they change or add something, it's all just speculation. Who knows, you might like it if you try it!

Dubhthamlacht

I can totally agree with what OP said. When WOLK was first announced I had a wait and see policy. This was the opposite to when TBC was first announced. I knew I couldn't wait to play TBC. I had a 12 month sub way in advance for it to come out. It offered so much over vanilla. From reading WoWhead, WorldofRaids and the other WoW fansites, WOLK, just didn't get me interested at all. It just didn't offer anywhere near enough to make me want to get it. I quit WoW 3 weeks before WOLK came out and I've never gone back. No regrets whatsoever. I've had a read at the Cataclysm expansion news a couple of times and lordly it sounds seriously underwhelming. If Blizzard had launched an expansion with the amount of changes from both WOLK + Cata together then, yeah you know , that's a lot of stuff that would be worth getting. I understand why Blizzard did it the way they did. But for someone who played WoW from the beginning, they seriously needed to freshen the game up to make it interesting, not just slap on more of the same. For a lot of people more of the same is just fine.

WoW I imagine is probably still the most polished MMO out there. If you are someone who's never played it before, I would say if WoW was your first MMO, even in it's current incarnation it would be the best out there. It's just for someone like me who played it for a few years, it needed a serious overhaul. Also, I really do not miss the huge amount of nobheads who played WoW

I've tried Warhammer Online and Aion since WoW. Both started good but not great, I'd taken a stance of intentionally playing these very casually. Caught up on Xbox Live games until the Xbox got the RROD. And played some shooters on my laptop and got into some RPG's like Fallout3 and Mass Effect. Most likely I'll give DC Universe Online a go and if Bioware produce the goods, Star Wars: The old Republic.

Karl Hungus

' wrote:

[cEMAN**;62713663']When it comes to non tank raid leaders, and general PUG****ery, or certain guild recruitment, shield wall vs divine protection is all the same to them - 2m high % CD vs 2m high % CD.

No, but they do look at things like hp. When one tank has much more hp in the same gear, it's something people will notice.

][cEMAN**

Dubhthamlacht wrote: »

But for someone who played WoW from the beginning,

I think that's the problem. They're not thinking on someone who's played wow from the beginning. They're working on getting new people in to keep their playerbase up, rather than just hoping long time players won't clear off to another game.

copeyhagen

when 3.2 came out my wow was fooked up. unplayable, tried re installing tried everything, no joy.

so i took a 6 or 7 week break and played some other games, call of duty mw, left4dead which is great fun online.

i normally take a good few breaks each year.

Joneser

I let my time run out so i could get a good degree, WoW + University doesn't mix :P

me-skywalker

Big sigh with the game... let my sub run out so i could concentrate on this bab.....

][cEMAN**

I'm barely struggling along in arenas as a holy paladin with pretty ****ty gear. I started holy paladin in arena, then switched to ret when I was going for a gear upgrade just before the end of last season. Then when I couldn't find a healer partner, I ended up having to go back to my 2 seasons ago cheap gear (hateful).

Once I can get my tanking gear out of the way, I can use triumph emblems to buy furious gear, but that'll take a while with the amount of raiding i'm getting done lately.

TechnoPool

Ret in two's is absolute ****, rly is. Ive played ret,resto druid to 1821 then stopped and focused on 3's.


Its crap unless you find a very good rogue,Hunter or Mage your gonna find it very hard.


Even a disp priest who knows how to play offensive, No ms is fail these days as ive found alot of competent healers can outheal my dmg. I just train then and punch them in the face til they go oom

lazlo

I also let my sub run out. I havent played in a few months now. WoW has some great elements to it and it has the potential to be a game of astounding quality but blizzards desire to milk time and money from their players completely undermine the experience.

Drakar

Glad this isnt a QQ thread anyway *cough*.

Dragon Age Origins is out soon and is getting good reviews. Also Torchlight (just out) seems good if you want something to tide you over to Diablo.

fatjebus

Shadow priests don't have it hard, just rickroll shadowplay. I know plenty of shadow priests that got glad last season by playing shadowplay.

lock/spriest/shammy

Anyway, go get HoN amazing game.

I log now for 10 games of 3's a week just to stay above the glad rating in my bg, I can't see myself doing anything else until new content comes out.

I've all the best pve gear I can get, well bar a few slots but that doesn't bother me, we've everything killed and the games just boring content wise. when I talk about everything killed im not on about normal toc, we've done togc25. deaths demise, alga 25, everything

Roll on icecrown, then I'll get back in the swing of raiding until then, its 1 hour a week 10 games, pew pew.

not sunzz honest.

][cEMAN**

RopeDrink wrote: »

I only need to give the WoW forums a brief read to remind myself of another reason why I dislike the way the game is going - If it's not about the game itself, it's about the attitude that comes with it from a lot of it's players.

Nonsense. You stuck with CS long enough, and the people in that were worse.

Overheal

' wrote:

[cEMAN**;62778409']Nonsense. You stuck with CS long enough, and the people in that were worse.

...which wore away that thick shell of tolerance he once had

][cEMAN**

I didn't think it was a layer of tolerance he had, but rather a madness that would never leave. It was the only reasoning I could think of.

Dustaz

RopeDrink wrote: »

I only need to give the WoW forums a brief read to remind myself of another reason why I dislike the way the game is going - If it's not about the game itself, it's about the attitude that comes with it from a lot of it's players.

Has it ever been any different? Just like any fps, The game has and always will be full of morons

HoN is a great distraction but without a doubt it features the most downright idiotic and obsesively nasty players of any game ive ever played:)

TechnoPool

Dustaz wrote: »

Has it ever been any different? Just like any fps, The game has and always will be full of morons

HoN is a great distraction but without a doubt it features the most downright idiotic and obsessively nasty players of any game ive ever played:)

hon, ha i've played beta, wont be buying it! why? nothing different from game to game!! lets be honest the same 10 items are bought every game regardless of our hero class,spec ect.


and you rly get the same hero's over nd over!!!

'quick pick, tempest,tree,magmus ect and win by AOE, ye takes effort!'

decent game, RUINED , sadly !!

][cEMAN**

I was discussing the future of wow last night with a few people, and I do know that at some point i'm going to get tired of this game.
Eventually when you create a new character, you'll only get the option of tank/dps/healer, rather than warrior/mage/priest. The race will be one of the customizable options at the bottom, rather than at the top because it won't matter.
You'll ding whatever the highest level is at the time, and get a full set of the latest tier epics in the post. You'll ding a day after you buy the game, because you'll start off as about 10 levels below, and through retarded starting area quests you'll get so much XP that by running 100m in one direction will get you half a level.
There will be no more 25 man raids. 10 man will be the new number you have to scrounge to get people for. 5 mans will be come 3 mans - tank+dps+healer.
Joining a guild will become an achievement.
Creating a guild will become an achievement.
They'll get rid of the guild option because nobody is able to get a guild larger than 2 people.

Right now they've got you dinging 80, doing heroics to get gear good enough to raid the so called high end game raids. But it wouldn't matter because you can just walk in after dinging anyway, if your mates give you a spot.

The point of gearing, and raiding lower level raids instances in both vanilla and TBC was to create a learning curve. Much like reaching 60 originally was - you get to learn your character. Now you get DK's with Disney buttons of Hit and heal. More interested in the iconic design of the character rather than the function. Facerolling is encouraged.

The announcement that they're going to lower the age limit was the official announcment that they are going to aim this game at idiots, and give them flashing lights to tell them they're special (which achievement are you most proud of? Breathing in and out? GZ!)

Roll on the next decent game, that isn't a bad rip off of this one. Maybe roll on one that IS a rip off of this one, but back when it was a good game.

I was so disappointed when I heard TBC was coming out. Don't fix something that's not broken, just accessorize

DRakE

' wrote:

[cEMAN**;62820509']I was discussing the future of wow last night with a few people, and I do know that at some point i'm going to get tired of this game.
Eventually when you create a new character, you'll only get the option of tank/dps/healer, rather than warrior/mage/priest. The race will be one of the customizable options at the bottom, rather than at the top because it won't matter.
You'll ding whatever the highest level is at the time, and get a full set of the latest tier epics in the post. You'll ding a day after you buy the game, because you'll start off as about 10 levels below, and through retarded starting area quests you'll get so much XP that by running 100m in one direction will get you half a level.
There will be no more 25 man raids. 10 man will be the new number you have to scrounge to get people for. 5 mans will be come 3 mans - tank+dps+healer.
Joining a guild will become an achievement.
Creating a guild will become an achievement.
They'll get rid of the guild option because nobody is able to get a guild larger than 2 people.

Right now they've got you dinging 80, doing heroics to get gear good enough to raid the so called high end game raids. But it wouldn't matter because you can just walk in after dinging anyway, if your mates give you a spot.

The point of gearing, and raiding lower level raids instances in both vanilla and TBC was to create a learning curve. Much like reaching 60 originally was - you get to learn your character. Now you get DK's with Disney buttons of Hit and heal. More interested in the iconic design of the character rather than the function. Facerolling is encouraged.

The announcement that they're going to lower the age limit was the official announcment that they are going to aim this game at idiots, and give them flashing lights to tell them they're special (which achievement are you most proud of? Breathing in and out? GZ!)

Roll on the next decent game, that isn't a bad rip off of this one. Maybe roll on one that IS a rip off of this one, but back when it was a good game.

I was so disappointed when I heard TBC was coming out. Don't fix something that's not broken, just accessorize

da game is 2 ez dese dayz urrite

Nehaxak

I wasn't playing wow now for a few months, cancelled two accounts and merged all those characters into one and have about 3 months left on that sub.
I have though recently started playing again but just purely BG pvp.
I changed faction on my mage from Horde To Alliance, just to see if it would spur on some interest in the game again for me and indeed it has, but only because I'm enjoying being usually the only Alliance defender in AV and Alliance winning AV about 95% of the time - really, you Alliance feckers have it so easy, I knew AV was in favour of Alliance but this just proves it firsthand for me. Farmed my final 3 pieces of pvp gear in just 2 days of playing AV in the morning/afternoons.

Anyway, occasionally now playing Wow again on my pink haired Gnome mage during the days. No interest in raiding ever again as I'm not prepared either to put hours into a raid anymore.

My Steam games list is now packed full of games got cheaply and legit from g2play.net so lots of other games to play with. Aion didn't do it for me at all and champions online was a bloody joke of a game.

I might sub up to Planetside again for a month or two and just play that for a while, just hope it works with Windows 7 without too many problems.

Dr Bolouswki

I quit for 3 months soon after BC, then quit again when Ulduar was released. Went back for about 2 months and quit again last month. I'll probably go back for cataclysm to see what its like, but I fear Iceman is right. They've simply butchered the game by trying for the all inclusive raiding and the imbecilic achievements. Bring back crowd control and maybe it will be fun playing again.

Orion

I quit some months ago. The game had gotten very repetitive and boring. Cataclysm holds no interest for me at all.

I've resisted this LARP idea of actually going outside the house - that's just crazy. Instead I've buried myself in Eve. Tried this a couple of times while still playing WoW and didn't get it. Then gave up WoW and tried it again - loving it. Steep learning curve compared to WoW and the ilk but worth it.