15,278 public sector workers earn more than €100,000

meditraitor

Another Public sector pay post but Im not sure if these figures have been posted,

Im more than a bit shocked by this but now I realise there is great scope for cost reductions.

A third of PAYE workers who earned more than €100,000 (46,794 in total) last year are from the Public service. Thats 15,278 public sector workers



More than a third of the PAYE workers who earned between €70,000 and €100,000 (94,773 in total) are from the public service, thats well over 30,000 public sector workers


And of the 171,096 paye workers earning between €50k and €70k the ration edges close to 40%, that well over 60,000 public sectors workers.So well over 100,000 public sectors workers are doing pretty well........ These are the guys/gals we need to look at when reducing the public sector pay bill.



Now the 183,629 public sector workers who earn less than €30,000 need to be left the fuck alone

These figure are in todays indo, cant find the online page....

ei.sdraob

finally, some figures!

so much for private sector "racking it in"

theres me thinking i was doing well getting 35K before taxes for working 6 days a week, and sometimes at nights, should have joined the public sector

#15

Those figures are unsustainable.

Arathorn

I knew it was bad but I can't believe 15,278, jesus

Overature

you is mistaken, thats 15,278 people who earned €100,000 between them, they are really poor

Nonoperational

And your point is? This figure includes world renowned doctors, consultants, researchers, people in positions of authority, senior law enforcement etc etc. Yet again with the witch hunt for people that earn over 100,000. Ridiculous thread.

muboop1

15k people isn't a lot when you include consultants etc in hospitals, principals in schools(a truely terrible job, deserving of its pay and status as effectively a manager, any public sector worker over so many people would get more), and many many more.

Some on other hand are over paid for what they do... but what can you do?

glaston

muboop1 wrote: »

15k people isn't a lot when you include consultants etc in hospitals

Consultants pay is probably more like €200,000 +

http://www.publicjobs.ie/cand/JobDetails_eng.asp?JobID=4375&hdnGUID=&hdnJobID=2750&sgDest=JOBLISTING

RCIRL

The people who receive these salary's may or may not be entitled to them but the truth is, Ireland's broke and can no longer afford to pay them, its not fair to have the public sector taking strikes etc.

The people in the private sector are just as much entitled to their salary's but 450,000 of them who never mind facing a pay cut, they have lost their job completely!

You don't see them threatening the Government with strikes or refusal to accept, what gives the public sector the right and nerve to do so??

The Orb

OP,back up your figures, what professions/areas are these people in?, what positions do they occupy? You can't group everybody into one category.

muboop1

RCIRL wrote: »

You don't see them threatening the Government with strikes or refusal to accept, what gives the public sector the right and nerve to do so??

Because they can. We need them no matter what people think. If hospital staff properly went on strike, we are screwed. If teachers stop teaching we have no future people in education.

If garda stop working we have mayhem.

If firemen stop working we have potential trouble.

Even if the country decided to recruit in all these areas, it would be a while before they could be replaced effecively due to training etc.

Thats just the main samples i can think of.

But more then that, they signed a contract.

The government has already made it so they now get an unfair tax and pay more on their pensions then average public sector worker
See thread - http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055719579

More then that do, they have a contract which must be held up.
If a public sector worker had his contract changed etc without his agreement which afaik is i breach of the contract anyway they would be sue-ing!

my 2 cents

omahaid

muboop1 wrote: »

Because they can. We need them no matter what people think. If hospital staff properly went on strike, we are screwed. If teachers stop teaching we have no future people in education.

If garda stop working we have mayhem.

If firemen stop working we have potential trouble.

Even if the country decided to recruit in all these areas, it would be a while before they could be replaced effecively due to training etc.

Thats just the main samples i can think of.

But more then that, they signed a contract.

The government has already made it so they now get an unfair tax and pay more on their pensions then average public sector worker
See thread - http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055719579

More then that do, they have a contract which must be held up.
If a public sector worker had his contract changed etc without his agreement which afaik is i breach of the contract anyway they would be sue-ing!

my 2 cents

Nobody is indispensable, you learn that quickly in the private sector, anybody can be replaced.

NewDubliner

omahaid wrote: »

Nobody is indispensable, you learn that quickly in the private sector, anybody can be replaced.

But, usually at a cost.

wicklowmale

why should the PS not accept cuts/redundancies when the private sector take them on the chin, no matter how painful it is

PPl who think otherwords live in a dream, not surprising if they earning those figures

I agree the low paid PS workers should be left alone

It be interesting to find out how much the union leaders are on. Does anyone have these figures?

I am getting fed up with the excuses ppl are coming up with for the Public sector.

Some equality would be nice for a change from them, considering they were the ones constantly looking for pay increases during the boom, and higher most of the times than inflation.

The PS need to cop onto themselves and start acting like adults, not a bunch of kids. Private sector workers are keeping quiet at the moment, but we can only take so much crap.

Things are tough and a pay cut is better than lossing ur job.

in relation to the IMF not coming into ireland, this country is borrowing money at the moment from the ECB (bank) and they do have the power to impose on the government if we need any more money and i would not be surprised they are putting pressure on the government at the moment in relation to the upcoming budget.

If someone can give a REAL case towards the reason the PS should not take cuts/redundancy it would be great.

The Muppet

ei.sdraob wrote: »

finally, some figures!

so much for private sector "racking it in"

If one third of paye workers earning over 100k work in the public sector does this not mean that there are twice as many priver sector workers than ps workers earning over 100k?

They must be raking it in too, no?

NewDubliner

meditraitor wrote: »

Another Public sector pay post but Im not sure if these figures have been posted, These figure are in todays indo, cant find the online page....

It must have been a special edition.

The Indo itself is not a source of reliable information - where did the article say its figures came from? Also, who wrote it?

ParkRunner

Any stats for those earning over 200,000? Might as well give the full picture

ei.sdraob

The Muppet wrote: »

If one third of paye workers earning over 100k work in the public sector does this not mean that there are twice as many priver sector workers than ps workers earning over 100k?

They must be raking it in too, no?

except the private sectors income is not 100% tax based

Diarmuid

We already know that the Public sector employees are paid 26% more than the private sector equivalent. This is hardly surprising.

The upcoming buget should start to fix this unsustainable position though, thank god

dresden8

Diarmuid wrote: »

We already know that the Public sector employees are paid 26% more than the private sector equivalent. This is hardly surprising.

The upcoming buget should start to fix this unsustainable position though, thank god

In security services, gardaí and prison officers earn a high premium but Army workers are on less than their private sector counterparts.

Is there a private sector army? I thought the RA had disarmed?

ParkRunner

dresden8 wrote: »

Is there a private sector army? I thought the RA had disarmed?

I checked the report for their sources and statistics and all it says is "Results available from the authors." :rolleyes:

NewDubliner

EF wrote: »

I checked the report for their sources and statistics and all it says is "Results available from the authors." :rolleyes:

What were the names of the authors?

ParkRunner

NewDubliner wrote: »

What were the names of the authors?

Elish Kelly, Seamus McGuinness, Philip O’Connell. Knock yourself out:

Elish.Kelly@esri.ie

NewDubliner

EF wrote: »

Elish Kelly, Seamus McGuinness, Philip O’Connell. Knock yourself out:Elish.Kelly@esri.ie

Did they write the article in the Indo or is their work being referred to?

ParkRunner

NewDubliner wrote: »

Did they write the article in the Indo or is their work being referred to?

It's a full esri report:

http://www.esri.ie/publications/latest_publications/view/index.xml?id=2864

NewDubliner

EF wrote: »

It's a full esri report:http://www.esri.ie/publications/latest_publications/view/index.xml?id=2864

That's a link to an ESRI report. I assume that this did not appear word-for-word in the Indo & instead,as per usual form, the Indo cherry-picked it for ammunition.

The thread is about an article in the Independent, we still don't know who wrote the it, and there is no link.

meditraitor

NewDubliner wrote: »

That's a link to an ESRI report. I assume that this did not appear word-for-word in the Indo & instead,as per usual form, the Indo cherry-picked it for ammunition.

The thread is about an article in the Independent, we still don't know who wrote the it, and there is no link.

Sorry for the delay in replying, I was on serious real life football watching business today (:D LFC won v MUFC didnt)

The article is on page 12 of todays independent. Top of the page and was written by John Drennan

I notice the usual suspects are trying to muddy the waters with nonsense just to cover up the real point, 15 THOUSAND PEOPLE ARE BEING PAID OVER 100,000 YOYO'S BY THE TAXPAYER?????

They cant all be consutants, but im sure you will try to find an excuse for this crazy gravy train.


Off to bed for a sleep:P

ghost_ie

wicklowmale wrote: »

why should the PS not accept cuts/redundancies when the private sector take them on the chin, no matter how painful it is

PPl who think otherwords live in a dream, not surprising if they earning those figures

I agree the low paid PS workers should be left alone

It be interesting to find out how much the union leaders are on. Does anyone have these figures?

I am getting fed up with the excuses ppl are coming up with for the Public sector.

Some equality would be nice for a change from them, considering they were the ones constantly looking for pay increases during the boom, and higher most of the times than inflation.

The PS need to cop onto themselves and start acting like adults, not a bunch of kids. Private sector workers are keeping quiet at the moment, but we can only take so much crap.

Things are tough and a pay cut is better than lossing ur job.

in relation to the IMF not coming into ireland, this country is borrowing money at the moment from the ECB (bank) and they do have the power to impose on the government if we need any more money and i would not be surprised they are putting pressure on the government at the moment in relation to the upcoming budget.

If someone can give a REAL case towards the reason the PS should not take cuts/redundancy it would be great.

Because the pay cuts and redundancies would not be aimed at those earning the big money. They'd be aimed at the ordinary, low to middle income group such as the nurses, teachers, fire service personnell and ambulance staff on whom we depend. The politicians, heads of departments, fire service chief officers (who do nothing), garda superintendants, hospital consultants - the guys who earn the really big money - would take a 10% or 20% cut which would make barely a dent in their huge salaries and would continue on their merry way. The ordinary Public Servants would either have their pay cut drastically or else lose their jobs, leading to a loss of service to all of us

Boskowski

ghost_ie wrote: »

They'd be aimed at the ordinary, low to middle income group such as the nurses, teachers, fire service personnell and ambulance staff on whom we depend.

When was the last time you had a look at what nurses and teachers bring home? I wouldn't exactly call it low to middle earners when someone just out of college starts on 35k+. For ambulance personnel there is an actual thread here. Needless to say that thread isn't around because they're so poorly paid.

What I'd call low to middle incomes are the guys fixing your pot holes or processing your income tax forms or your drivers license application. But, sorry, not nurses, teachers, ambulance drivers, prison officers, guards, you name it.

pvt.joker

realcam wrote: »

What I'd call low to middle incomes are the guys fixing your pot holes or processing your income tax forms or your drivers license application. But, sorry, not nurses, teachers, ambulance drivers, prison officers, guards, you name it.

Sorry but you're wrong. Would you call high income getting 400 odd euro a week after tax ?

Boskowski

pvt.joker wrote: »

Sorry but you're wrong. Would you call high income getting 400 odd euro a week after tax ?

No, I wouldn't. But say if someone started on that or had it at a very early stage in their career I'm not sure I'd call it low income though. I mean you make it sound like as if - for arguments sake - 450 on the hand were crap money.

We mustn't get hung up on the fact that people here get 205 for doing nothing. That's very wrong too you know?

muboop1

realcam wrote: »

No, I wouldn't. But say if someone started on that or had it at a very early stage in their career I'm not sure I'd call it low income though. I mean you make it sound like as if - for arguments sake - 450 on the hand were crap money.

We mustn't get hung up on the fact that people here get 205 for doing nothing. That's very wrong too you know?

yeh but at the same time, is it not right that harder jobs with higher responsibility should be paid higher?

By your logic a doctor would work for 40k a year or whatever, same as a person working in Carphone Warehouse ffs...

Hardly fair way to work it!

One requires education, stress etc...

Diarmuid

pvt.joker wrote: »

Sorry but you're wrong. Would you call high income getting 400 odd euro a week after tax ?

Not especially. Would you call €1207.24 a week high? No offence but generally the CSO figures are more accurate than some punter on the interwebs called pvt.joker.

Diarmuid

muboop1 wrote: »

yeh but at the same time, is it not right that harder jobs with higher responsibility should be paid higher?

well that's generally not how it works. Usually it's people who provide a skill that is in short demand that gets the big money. I'm sure you'll agree that someone driving 40 kids around in a bus has a lot of responsibility on his hands. He's not on 100k. Probably less than average industrial wage in reality. Not because of the responsibility but because almost any joe soap can be trained to drive a bus. There probably is a small risk premium but it's not as big as you would think

NewDubliner

meditraitor wrote: »

I notice the usual suspects are trying to muddy the waters with nonsense just to cover up the real point, 15 THOUSAND PEOPLE ARE BEING PAID OVER 100,000 YOYO'S BY THE TAXPAYER?????

What source does he give the source for this statistic and does he give any information on what these people do?

ceret

The Muppet wrote: »

If one third of paye workers earning over 100k work in the public sector does this not mean that there are twice as many priver sector workers than ps workers earning over 100k?

They must be raking it in too, no?

It's important to look at percetages.

According to the CSO there are 2.1million people in employement (source), and 370k in the public sector (source).

Ergo 4.1% of the public sector get over €100k (15,278 / 370,000)

There are 1,730,000 private sector workers (2,100,000 total - 370,000 public sector), if there are 30,000 of them getting over €100k, then it's only 1.7% of the private sector that get over €100k.

This means that public sector workers are two and a half times as likely to get over €100k per year.

irish_bob

pvt.joker wrote: »

Sorry but you're wrong. Would you call high income getting 400 odd euro a week after tax ?

the average guard , nurse and teacher earns on average a grand a week so they bring in alot more than 400 a week after tax and besides you dont list your net pay , you list your gross pay

NewDubliner

ceret wrote: »

Ergo 4.1% of the public sector get over €100k (15,278 / 370,000) This means that public sector workers are two and a half times as likely to get over €100k per year.

Where does this figure of 15,278 come from?

ei.sdraob

NewDubliner wrote: »

Where does this figure of 15,278 come from?

OP

ceret

NewDubliner wrote: »

Where does this figure of 15,278 come from?

From the Minister for Finance. http://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2009-10-21.751.0

ParkRunner

ceret wrote: »

From the Minister for Finance. http://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2009-10-21.751.0

In addition, the number of all PAYE workers earning less than the average industrial wage of €32,730 in 2007 was 1,267,865, of which 201,727 were public sector employees.

Interesting statistic. About 50% of public sector workers therefore are earning less than the average industrial wage of 32,730 and they have already taken close to a 10% cut this year.

Boskowski

muboop1 wrote: »

yeh but at the same time, is it not right that harder jobs with higher responsibility should be paid higher?

By your logic a doctor would work for 40k a year or whatever, same as a person working in Carphone Warehouse ffs...

Hardly fair way to work it!

One requires education, stress etc...

That's right. But where did you get from that I suggested a doctor should work for 40k?

Between the 40k that you somehow found in my arguments and the 200k that seems to be the minimum for a 'hospital consultant' these days there is quite a bit of room, don't you think?

eoinbn

EF wrote: »

Interesting statistic. About 50% of both public sector workers therefore are earning less than the average industrial wage of 32,730 and they have already taken close to a 10% cut this year.

If you believe those figures then we had 414k public sector workers in 2007...

c montgomery

gpf101 wrote: »

And your point is? This figure includes world renowned doctors, consultants, researchers, people in positions of authority, senior law enforcement etc etc. Yet again with the witch hunt for people that earn over 100,000. Ridiculous thread.

The Muppet wrote: »

If one third of paye workers earning over 100k work in the public sector does this not mean that there are twice as many priver sector workers than ps workers earning over 100k?

They must be raking it in too, no?

His point is 1/3 of the people who earned over 100,000 were public sector workers. Public sector only make up 1/7 of the working population in Ireland.


The other 2/3s are also doctors, soliciters, etc, etc.

Your response was ridiculous!!!!!!

ceret

EF wrote: »

Interesting statistic. About 50% of both public sector workers therefore are earning less than the average industrial wage of 32,730

Not too surprising that half the people are below the average, and half are above the average.

TBH I'm a bit surprised that the average is so high at €32k.

ParkRunner

eoinbn wrote: »

If you believe those figures then we had 414k public sector workers in 2007...

All I can use is the figures available, but if they are wrong then this whole thread is based on false figures.

muboop1

realcam wrote: »

That's right. But where did you get from that I suggested a doctor should work for 40k?

Between the 40k that you somehow found in my arguments and the 200k that seems to be the minimum for a 'hospital consultant' these days there is quite a bit of room, don't you think?

maybe i was looking for a meaning where there wasn't one or something? sorry if i mistook the meaning

First for record, i'm a student, but ill be entering private sector probably starting on a high enough wage, so my defense of public sector isn't for my own benefit or whatever. I just disagree with a lot of what people say about them.

i suppose 200k is a lot. But bare in mind, many those hospital consultants pull maybe 60+ hours a week.

In one of the most stressful jobs i could imagine. Peoples life and death hang on their memory etc, and if they mess up they are liable to be sued for everything they are worth, never mind funding for university for 5 years minimum(non eu students pay over 20k a year tuition not taking living costs into accounts, im including these as a great portion of our doctors aren't irish it seems).

I personally believe they if working the usual 35-40 hours a week deserve 100k a year min. That they work so much over, yeh i suppose 200k seems accurate!

I know in an economy it depends on money available etc... so if there is none then pay could be lowered. But realistically i don't see it as right!

I'm a big believer in if you work years educating yourself in a very hard profession with responsibility especially over life, and lets face it its a risky job, then i believe they deserve the pay.

ParkRunner

ceret wrote: »

Not too surprising that half the people are below the average, and half are above the average.

TBH I'm a bit surprised that the average is so high at €32k.

It puts doubt into the claim however that public sector workers earn a 26% premium over their private sector counterpart does it not?

thebman

muboop1 wrote: »

yeh but at the same time, is it not right that harder jobs with higher responsibility should be paid higher?

By your logic a doctor would work for 40k a year or whatever, same as a person working in Carphone Warehouse ffs...

Hardly fair way to work it!

One requires education, stress etc...

I doubt someone working in Carphone Warehouse earns 40K. If they are, I'm in the wrong job.

Boskowski

muboop1 wrote: »

In one of the most stressful jobs i could imagine. Peoples life and death hang on their memory etc, and if they mess up they are liable to be sued for everything they are worth, never mind funding for university for 5 years minimum(non eu students pay over 20k a year tuition not taking living costs into accounts, im including these as a great portion of our doctors aren't irish it seems).

I personally believe they if working the usual 35-40 hours a week deserve 100k a year min. That they work so much over, yeh i suppose 200k seems accurate!

I'm not totally opposed to what you're saying, but...

We're all small country with a small underdeveloped economy. It just doesn't seem to make sense to me that we pay almost double the money to a lot of people compared to other countries in Europe. And these other countries are countries that could actually afford to pay what we pay (unlike ourselves I might add) but they don't.

How come a hospital doctor in Germany for example (a country where payee workers pay roughly 12% of their annual gross into the health system by the way - so hugely funded health system) is on say 120k and thinks he's privileged and is happy to work for that and our people would be insulted by that kind of money? I think here in Ireland we really lost the perspective for money.

irish_bob

muboop1 wrote: »

maybe i was looking for a meaning where there wasn't one or something? sorry if i mistook the meaning

First for record, i'm a student, but ill be entering private sector probably starting on a high enough wage, so my defense of public sector isn't for my own benefit or whatever. I just disagree with a lot of what people say about them.

i suppose 200k is a lot. But bare in mind, many those hospital consultants pull maybe 60+ hours a week.

In one of the most stressful jobs i could imagine. Peoples life and death hang on their memory etc, and if they mess up they are liable to be sued for everything they are worth, never mind funding for university for 5 years minimum(non eu students pay over 20k a year tuition not taking living costs into accounts, im including these as a great portion of our doctors aren't irish it seems).

I personally believe they if working the usual 35-40 hours a week deserve 100k a year min. That they work so much over, yeh i suppose 200k seems accurate!

I know in an economy it depends on money available etc... so if there is none then pay could be lowered. But realistically i don't see it as right!

I'm a big believer in if you work years educating yourself in a very hard profession with responsibility especially over life, and lets face it its a risky job, then i believe they deserve the pay.

ive never once heard of a doctor or consultants being sued for malpractive , that guy in drogheda who was removing womens wombs , far as i know he got to hold on to his pension

very few consultants put in the hours your speak of