Charge extra for ice-cream in restaurants?

jlang

I don't like cream on my dessert so I always ask for ice-cream instead. Generally not a problem and if they say no, I'll be disappointed but just make sure I don't get cream. The last two restaurants I've been in have given me my ice-cream with no difficulty but then put an extra charge on the bill (without letting me know in advance).

If I'm paying 6.50 or whatever for a slice of tart, I don't think it's too much to think I can get a bit of ice-cream instead of cream without paying an extra 2.00 for the privilege. What's next, an extra charge for gravy?

<end of rant>

the beer revolu

Name and shame, I say!
Restaurants are really going to have to cop on to themselves if they're gonna survive!

mink_man

sickener alright!

PCPhoto

name and shame those restaurants.


so the rest of us can boycott/avoid.

Mr.Boots

They charge extra because icecream costs alot more than cream, and there is vat on it.
2 euro sounds a bit much though
50c or 1 euro is about right.

The Big Red Button

I wouldn't be a bit impressed with that, I probably wouldn't bother complaining but just wouldn't go back to the same place again.

I'm one of those awkward people who's always looking for icecream instead of cream, different sauces and side dishes than what's on the menu, etc. I'm never usually charged extra for any of it.

PCPhoto

Mr.Boots wrote: »

They charge extra because icecream costs alot more than cream, and there is vat on it.
2 euro sounds a bit much though
50c or 1 euro is about right.

theres no need to try justify it..... €6.50 for "tart" is expensive enough so the ice-cream should be with it as an option.

Mr.Boots

PCPhoto wrote: »

theres no need to try justify it..... €6.50 for "tart" is expensive enough so the ice-cream should be with it as an option.

Just to put a figure on it for you,
4 litres of cream cost about 12 euro
4 litres of good icecream costs 35 euro

Davidth88

Mr.Boots wrote: »

They charge extra because icecream costs alot more than cream, and there is vat on it.
2 euro sounds a bit much though
50c or 1 euro is about right.

I can understand the more expensive bit , but can't the Restaurant claim the VAT back ?

I think it's a bit mean , after all I imagine the margin on most puds is pretty high already ......

It's like charging 2.50 or whatever for an expresso , totally stupid money for a coffee ( even in Rome airport an expresso usually a milliion times better than anything you get in Ireland costs 1 euro )

drkpower

Mr.Boots wrote: »

Just to put a figure on it for you,
4 litres of cream cost about 12 euro
4 litres of good icecream costs 35 euro

So a scoop of icecream is about 30 or 40c rather than 10/13c. So a differntial of 20-25c..... And you think they should charge for that in the context of someone eating a full meal in a restaurant. Aside from any moral argument, its simply bad business to do so.

Reminds me of a time in Il Corvo, Drumcondra (years ago, mind you) where we were entertaining a bunch of about 15 distant relatives from the US. The bread they brought round was stale and when I questioned this, they said that the bread was complimentary anyway :eek:.....! To which I of course commented that the table and chairs were complimentary but that we would hope to rely on them to serve their purpose.

Anyway, the point is that for such a trivial amount where the customer requests an alternative for good reason (ie. not being difficult or contrary) any restaurant should not charge anything additional.

the beer revolu

Mr Boots, one cant help wondering what restaurant you are behind!
One that charges for ice cream, no doubt!

Mr.Boots

the beer revolu wrote: »

Mr Boots, one cant help wondering what restaurant you are behind!
One that charges for ice cream, no doubt!

I dont see what the problem is in charging 50c or 1 euro for icecream.........Maybe have your dessert at home next time?
Vat is 13.5%

Mellor

drkpower wrote: »

So a scoop of icecream is about 30 or 40c rather than 10/13c. So a differntial of 20-25c..... And you think they should charge for that in the context of someone eating a full meal in a restaurant. Aside from any moral argument, its simply bad business to do so.

Most scoops would be alot bigger than what you are suggesting here. But thats beside the point.

Anyway, the point is that for such a trivial amount where the customer requests an alternative for good reason (ie. not being difficult or contrary) any restaurant should not charge anything additional.

So if I want duck instead of chicken with my main course, because I prefer it. I shouldn't be charged. I could understand an alergy, or a like for like item, but preferences don't count in my mind. Nor does an item that is clearly more expensive

Seriously, It costs more, They charge for it. If someone is so tight that this bothers them I suggest that they stop going out for dinner, or get their mammy to buy them a 99 on the way home.

brendansmith

Nightmare situation there OP, i too prefer icecream to cream. I will be vigilent in future.

the beer revolu

Mr.Boots wrote: »

I dont see what the problem is in charging 50c or 1 euro for icecream.........Maybe have your dessert at home next time?
Vat is 13.5%

The OP was charged €2.
The problem is that it is, as evidenced here, seen as small minded and mean. That's not good for business.
Maybe I'll have the whole meal at home - the food is invariably better and better value!

Mellor wrote: »

So if I want duck instead of chicken with my main course, because I prefer it. I shouldn't be charged. I could understand an alergy, or a like for like item, but preferences don't count in my mind. Nor does an item that is clearly more expensive

That's just a stupid argument. We're not talking about changing out a main ingredient - just a condiment. If somebody wanted chips instead of mash would you calculate the cost difference between them and charge accordingly?

Mellor wrote: »

Seriously, It costs more, They charge for it. If someone is so tight that this bothers them I suggest that they stop going out for dinner, or get their mammy to buy them a 99 on the way home.

Come on, restaurants don't make exactly the same margin on everything. Some things are very profitable, some are not. It's swings and roundabouts.

I find it rather strange that restaurateurs are suggesting that people should eat at home! Maybe there's a certain disdain for customers in general !

Given the choice of selling a dessert for, say, €6.50 with a small scoop of ice cream gratis, or not selling one at all, it would be a foolish business person would choose the latter.

drkpower

Mellor wrote: »

So if I want duck instead of chicken with my main course, because I prefer it. I shouldn't be charged. I could understand an alergy, or a like for like item, but preferences don't count in my mind. Nor does an item that is clearly more expensive
.

The correct analogy would be where someone didnt like mushrooms which was served on the side with the main and asked for some other vegetable (that was on the menu and slightly more exoensive) instead. If the restaurant charged me extra id be pretty annoyed.

Mr.Boots

Like i said, icecream is expencive to buy
I also said i think 2 euro is to much
50c or 1 euro is about right.
Imagine 50% of people want icecream instead....Now that would eat into your margin.

It costs the restaurant more so it costs the customer more....simple logic!

drkpower

Mr.Boots wrote: »

Like i said, icecream is expencive to buy
I also said i think 2 euro is to much
50c or 1 euro is about right.
Imagine 50% of people want icecream instead....Now that would eat into your margin.

It costs the restaurant more so it costs the customer more....simple logic!

Imagine they want crack instead......

They don't, that is the point; it is an occasional customer who will make this request so it has little effect on ultimate margins. But bad word of mouth from a handful of punters can have a big effect. Its simply bad business to charge these minor amounts.

And if 50-6-70& of people start asking specifically for icecream, you might want to think of changing your menu - and then, if someone asks for cream instead, you are saving money and keeping the customers happy. Win win.

Mr.Boots

drkpower wrote: »

Imagine they want crack instead......

They don't, that is the point; it is an occasional customer who will make this request so it has little effect on ultimate margins. But bad word of mouth from a handful of punters can have a big effect. Its simply bad business to charge these minor amounts.

And if 50-6-70& of people start asking specifically for icecream, you might want to think of changing your menu - and then, if someone asks for cream instead, you are saving money and keeping the customers happy. Win win.

Hmmmmm I take your point but...Its a business i know inside out.

drkpower

Mr.Boots wrote: »

Hmmmmm I take your point but...Its a business i know inside out.

Then listen to the customers.......:pac:

There are many moany gits like me out there that would tell quite a few people about getting stiffed for a €1 over a scoop of icecream. I would say that the lost covers as a result would far out weigh the samlll hndful of people who open their mouth to ask for icecream instead of cream.

Mr.Boots

drkpower wrote: »

Then listen to the customers.......:pac:

There are many moany gits like me out there that would tell quite a few people about getting stiffed for a €1 over a scoop of icecream. I would say that the lost covers as a result would far out weigh the samlll hndful of people who open their mouth to ask for icecream instead of cream.

A business aim is to please its customers and do as much as they can to make them happy, but not to loose money to keep them happy.
I do understand your gripe but maybe think about how things work in your business/place of employment.

themadchef

Mr.Boots wrote: »

I dont see what the problem is in charging 50c or 1 euro for icecream.........Maybe have your dessert at home next time?
Vat is 13.5%

With an attitude like that you won't be in business very long.

Besides, anyone paying 6.50 for a slice of pie should get brain surgery. In fairness €6.50 :eek: unless it's organic, hand rolled wheat, home picked apples and made by genuine umpalumpa's who dance and sing at your table you're getting screwed!

Extras can be a pain in the behind BUT if dropping that charge means that your customers praise you and return the poxy 50c 100's of times over with repeat business and good word of mouth (which you know is priceless) then it's a no brainer in my book...

drkpower

Mr.Boots wrote: »

A business aim is to please its customers and do as much as they can to make them happy, but not to loose money to keep them happy.
I do understand your gripe but maybe think about how things work in your business/place of employment.

Sure.
I write off thousands of euros a year to clients in fees charged for various reasons. I do free education seminars for numerous clients that take hours and days to prepare.

Its a much different industry but the point that is relevant to all businesses is that your current clients/customers give you far more business than potential customers. It is also true that something like 4 in 10 customers will tell a friend/colleague of a good customer service outcome while 7-8/10 will tell them of a negative outcome. So, that extra scoop of icecream must be costing you big money if you are willing to risk a few customers being pissed off over.

And if it is a common phenomenon, factor it into your pricing structure. But dont annoy a customer because your pricing structire is inflexible.

Mr.Boots

Ok 6.50 is to much to start then adding 2.00 as the op stated makes it ott.

But would you be willing to pay an extra for a premium brand icecream, 50c/1euro?

drkpower

Mr.Boots wrote: »

Ok 6.50 is to much to start then adding 2.00 as the op stated makes it ott.

But would you be willing to pay an extra for a premium brand icecream, 50c/1euro?

Tbh, you would expect a premium ice cream with a slice of tart for €6.50. Deserts should never be too expensive - they are an impulse buy and, lets be honest, they are very profit heavy anyyway.

Mr.Boots

drkpower wrote: »

Tbh, you would expect a premium ice cream with a slice of tart for €6.50. Deserts should never be too expensive - they are an impulse buy and, lets be honest, they are very profit heavy anyyway.

Source?

Itake that as a no.

drkpower

Mr.Boots wrote: »

Source?

Itake that as a no.

Source for what?; that deserts shouldnt be expensive, that they are an impulse buy or that they are very profit-heavy? I'll presume the latter for the moment.

And why does everybody want a "source" for things that anyone with a bit of human experience can reasonably estimate!

A good quality apple tart or other good quality tart from superquinn/butlers pantry which makes 8 slices would be between €12-20. Thats the kind of tart you will get in a regular run of the mill restaurant for €6/7. I presume that can be made in house for substantially cheaper. So lets say max of €12 per 8 slices. Thats €1.50 a slice. I think we already established that a scoop of good icecream would be <50c, cream <30c. So €1.50-2 cost, €6.50 sale is a good margin in any scenario.

So, if you have a diffficulty with that broad estimate, let me know.

Fighting Irish

Instead of breadsticks, i want 3 pints of heinekin while i wait for my meal, oh yeah and i don't expect to have to pay for the 3 pints

kthxbye

Mr.Boots

drkpower wrote: »

Source for what?; that deserts shouldnt be expensive, that they are an impulse buy or that they are very profit-heavy? I'll presume the latter for the moment.

And why does everybody want a "source" for things that anyone with a bit of human experience can reasonably estimate!

A good quality apple tart or other good quality tart from superquinn/butlers pantry which makes 8 slices would be between €12-20. Thats the kind of tart you will get in a regular run of the mill restaurant for €6/7. I presume that can be made in house for substantially cheaper. So lets say max of €12 per 8 slices. Thats €1.50 a slice. I think we already established that a scoop of good icecream would be <50c, cream <30c. So €1.50-2 cost, €6.50 sale is a good margin in any scenario.

So, if you have a diffficulty with that broad estimate, let me know.

Ok so, i agreed that 6,50 was probably to much for ''Pie''
Take Your example of 20 euro for a tart dividing it by 8 is 2,50 a slice now add in someone to serve you and the space your taking up sitting eating it...then add 13.5% vat.
How much would you like to pay?

drkpower

Mr.Boots wrote: »

Ok so, i agreed that 6,50 was probably to much for ''Pie''
Take Your example of 20 euro for a tart dividing it by 8 is 2,50 a slice now add in someone to serve you and the space your taking up sitting eating it...then add 13.5% vat.
How much would you like to pay?

Dont be disingenuous.

€20 is what you would pay for something at the very top of the range in Butler's Pantry. Any run of the mill restaurant buying from the butkers pantry will be out of business in days; in fact, any run of the mill restaurant not baking its own tarts would not be a good business. So if we want to recalculate prices on the basis of the cost of flour, water, eggs, apples, cinammon, etc, the cost price of a good homely apple tart per slice will be less than €1/slice. Lets be honest, any restaurant worth its salt will be making its own tarts/pies. If I can do it at home, a barely trained pastry chef should be able to.

So we are talking a cost price range (for pie and icecream) of €1.20 ish to €2 max, witha half decent business coming in at the lower end.

So, dont be dishonest about how (good) restaurants work. Clearly, deserts are profit-heavy. But more importantly, aside from coffee, they are the most discretionary aspect of spending at a restaurant and pricing them high is ultimately self-defeating. For a standard tart and icecream, €6.50 is very much at the high end.

Mr.Boots

drkpower wrote: »

Dont be disingenuous.

€20 is what you would pay for something at the very top of the range in Butler's Pantry. Any run of the mill restaurant buying from the butkers pantry will be out of business in days; in fact, any run of the mill restaurant not baking its own tarts would not be a good business. So if we want to recalculate prices on the basis of the cost of flour, water, eggs, apples, cinammon, etc, the cost price of a good homely apple tart per slice will be less than €1/slice. Lets be honest, any restaurant worth its salt will be making its own tarts/pies. If I can do it at home, a barely trained pastry chef should be able to.

So we are talking a cost price range (for pie and icecream) of €1.20 ish to €2 max, witha half decent business coming in at the lower end.

So, dont be dishonest about how (good) restaurants work. Clearly, deserts are profit-heavy. But more importantly, aside from coffee, they are the most discretionary aspect of spending at a restaurant and pricing them high is ultimately self-defeating. For a standard tart and icecream, €6.50 is very much at the high end.

All im asking is how much you would like to pay for it?
Butlers isnt the top of the range by the way.

drkpower

Mr.Boots wrote: »

All im asking is how much you would like to pay for it?
Butlers isnt the top of the range by the way.

You are being disingenuous again!:eek: You asked how much I would pay working on the basis of a €20 tart, service, VAT etc....

But to answer your Q.:
Regular run of the mill restaurant: €5-6 max per desert
Top range/Michelan: €9-11max

Surely you dont buy your deserts from outside anyway?

Mr.Boots

No i didnt expect you to know the cost price, i just wanted to know what you as a customer would be willing to pay (sorry if you didnt understand what i meant)
Its hard in this business because alot of people think they know all about it because they cook at home or watch chefs on tv, and thats why so many of them open restaurants and fail.
Yes there is profit in desserts and they are certinly not top heavy with profit. they are labour intencive.
there is more profit in wine (but thats another arguemnet)
Most people will be willing to pay for quality.
Alot of places dont make their own because of the labour and space involved.
and yes i do make my own

the beer revolu

Mr Boots, we could argue all week here about, profit margins, the moral right to charge extra for ice cream, the difficulty in making money out of a restaurant (I am well acquainted with the industry) and how stupid people think it's a licence to print money but you'd be missing the point entirely.
The point is that it is clearly a practice that pis*es customers off. As said before, estimate the cost and factor it in to the price of the dessert, bearing in mind that relatively few people will request this. If you absolutely insist in charging for it, then print it clearly on your menu - that way people can make an informed choice.

Let me tell you a story;
Some years ago I used to regularly frequent a cafe and have a steak bap and a glass of water at lunchtime (usually off-peak lunchtime). Ok I didn't spend a fortune but I was regular, ordered their most expensive sandwich and was usually out of there very quickly. I also occasionally brought friends there.
One day I was told that they no longer served tap water. I paid for my sandwich, did not buy a drink and never darkened their door again (and told lots of people). To be honest, if that happened now, I wouldn't even have the sandwich!
I'm not saying it's the same situation but I am saying that it's very easy for a customer to feel somehow 'done' and walk out of your premises for ever.

Mr. Presentable

The only thing wrong in the OP is the poster was not advised of an additional charge so as to make an informed decision. I am not a caterer, but I imagine costs are not just the raw materials of a pie/tart. There's time in preparation (should the cook not get paid to make and bake?), server costs, storage, and I doubt the whole pie gets sold every time.

Why do people think it's wrong to make a profit? How much is public liability insurance in the OP's example restaurant? That has to be factored in once the customer is on the premises - before he has bought anything. Also heat, light, furniture, cleaning etc. It's not just about the cost of a pie.

Mr.Boots

Yep the OP should have been advised of the aditional charge .

However as i said in my original post...they charge extra because it costs them extra....simple economics.
Please dont compare it to glasses of water or stale bread...it is what it is.....extra.
You cant factor it into the cost of the dessert because then we would be argueing about why the person not having icecream having to pay for it.
Unfortunetly Alot of Irish people are unwilling to pay that bit extra for quality food, mainly because they dont reconise quality and we have a situation where restaurants menus are price driven and not quality driven, America is a case in point....people expect large portions and extras and refills included.....they can do this because the quality is rubish.
All i can speak about is what i know....Quality costs me money to produce so it cost the customer a little bit more....it dosnt appeal to everyone but for those there are alternetive options out there.
Unfortunetly we live in a contry where 13.5% of you food bill goes to the revenue, 21.5% of your drink bill goes to the revenue and to employ someone to do a menial task of washing dishes it will cost 380 euro a week so imagine what chefs cost.
So to ask for a small sum (as i sugested) of 50c 1 euro isnt alot to ask on a desert costing 5 or 6 euro for a scoop of Murphys ice cream.
Good food is there to be enjoyed, its one of lifes great plesures(if you can realy enjoy it)
And Realy if you cant accept this then maybe get a choc ice on the way home.
End of rant

xxdilemmaxx

Mr.Boots wrote: »

And Realy if you cant accept this then maybe get a choc ice on the way home.
End of rant

Mr. Boots, in the current economic climate I find your attitude astounding. If I paid €6 for a dessert I would expect to have a scoop of ice cream on the side rather than cream if I wanted to. And if I didn't get that I would choose a more accomodating restuarant for my next meal out.
It's a buyers market these days and tbh I'm not sure how any restuarant owner with your attitude is still in business. Most resturants are giving great deals at the moment, free dessert if u buy a main, buy one get one free etc (you only have to look at menupages to see this).
People are choosing value for their buck now along with good customer service, I think this is something you should consider. Judging by the other posts to this thread I think everyone else is in agreement....

Mr.Boots

xxdilemmaxx wrote: »

Mr. Boots, in the current economic climate I find your attitude astounding. If I paid €6 for a dessert I would expect to have a scoop of ice cream on the side rather than cream if I wanted to. And if I didn't get that I would choose a more accomodating restuarant for my next meal out.
It's a buyers market these days and tbh I'm not sure how any restuarant owner with your attitude is still in business. Most resturants are giving great deals at the moment, free dessert if u buy a main, buy one get one free etc (you only have to look at menupages to see this).
People are choosing value for their buck now along with good customer service, I think this is something you should consider. Judging by the other posts to this thread I think everyone else is in agreement....

The OP was never about offering deals or anything like that.
All i did was answer a question as to why they charge more for icecream...i answered that and gave in depth reason for it.
I dont think you can ask for more than that....a genuine answer from someone who works in the trade.
I supose you can listen to my reasons and learn or keep argueing about something you dont realy understand.
I dont think i can say anything else on the topic at this stage.

the beer revolu

Mr Boots, nipplenuts,

No one thinks there is anything wrong with making a profit.

Most people understand that it's not easy for most restaurants to make money and that there are a lot of overheads.

We all, now, understand that ice cream costs more than cream.

Unless your restaurant is doing perfectly fine you really should understand that it's not a case that you can't afford to give away , in this example, a small scoop of ice cream but, rather, that you can't afford not to give it away.

You talk of people not understanding the relationship between quality and price. Personally, I'd rather to eat out only a few times a year and to it well. That's not going to help too many restaurants.

It's a difficult chicken/egg sort of situation. If lots more people ate out regularly, then restaurants could offer better value. We need a cultural shift in dining. But where is it to start?
What we need are lots of smaller restaurants providing good value rather than 100+ seater restaurants providing cheap rubbish.

I'm sorry, but it is up to people in the trade to educate the public that there is quality and value and service to be had out there and that's not going to be done by calling the public ignorant and insisting that every extra must be charged for.

I really do know how difficult it is and how overdrafts are a thing of the past and how close to the edge many restaurants are but if this cultural shift doesn't come from the trade, all those restaurants on the edge will go under.
It's your move.

drkpower

So many people (including the restauranteur) are missing the point here!! Its not really about what profit a restaurant makes out of their deserts.

The issue is that you should never ever cause the perception that you are ripping off/pulling a fast one on the customer. So even if you charge slightly too much for the desert (to allow for 10% of people who ask for icecream), people who get cream wont really care. But, if you add on the extra charge after the fact, they will believe thay have been ripped off and will act accordingly.

So to avoid that, as the beer revolu states above, you factor in a few extra cents on the cost of the desert and charge that, or failing that, print clearly on the menu that icecream will cost X more. That way noone feels cheated. What you dont do is give them the icecream and then surprise them with a charge on the menu. It really is simple good business, and to do as the OP's restaurant does, is self-defeating.

Technically/legally, the customer could tell you to sod off anyway, as they hadnt agreed to the charge prior to it was provided - but thats a whole other thread!:eek:

Mr.Boots

drkpower wrote: »

So many people (including the restauranteur) are missing the point here!! Its not really about what profit a restaurant makes out of their deserts.

The issue is that you should never ever cause the perception that you are ripping off/pulling a fast one on the customer. So even if you charge slightly too much for the desert (to allow for 10% of people who ask for icecream), people who get cream wont really care. But, if you add on the extra charge after the fact, they will believe thay have been ripped off and will act accordingly.

So to avoid that, as the beer revolu states above, you factor in a few extra cents on the cost of the desert and charge that, or failing that, print clearly on the menu that icecream will cost X more. That way noone feels cheated. What you dont do is give them the icecream and then surprise them with a charge on the menu. It really is simple good business, and to do as the OP's restaurant does, is self-defeating.

Technically/legally, the customer could tell you to sod off anyway, as they hadnt agreed to the charge prior to it was provided - but thats a whole other thread!:eek:

I think you would argue with your feet.

Anyway you arguement wasnt about disclosing a price on a menu, it was that you personnaly dont want to pay the extra for icecream....because you feel you shouldnt have to.
Read over the thread again...i think you loosing the run of yourself.

AARRRGH

I eat out a lot - it used to be two or three times a day, but is now only two or three times a week.

If I was a regular customer in a restaurant and they charged me €2 for a scoop of ice cream, I would be offended and would never eat there again. If I wasn't a regular customer, I would think they are scabs and would also never eat there again.

I completely understand there is a cost difference - I am a business owner myself. However, it would be easy for a restaurant to keep a block of low cost ice cream (e.g. HB honeycomb ice cream) for moments like this.

So even though the customer may be unreasonable in expecting something for nothing, the only solution where both parties win is cheap ice cream. The reason I suggested the HB honeycomb ice cream is because it is tasty and I am always happy to see it on my plate!

Mr.Boots

the beer revolu wrote: »

Mr Boots, nipplenuts,

No one thinks there is anything wrong with making a profit.

Most people understand that it's not easy for most restaurants to make money and that there are a lot of overheads.

We all, now, understand that ice cream costs more than cream.

Unless your restaurant is doing perfectly fine you really should understand that it's not a case that you can't afford to give away , in this example, a small scoop of ice cream but, rather, that you can't afford not to give it away.

You talk of people not understanding the relationship between quality and price. Personally, I'd rather to eat out only a few times a year and to it well. That's not going to help too many restaurants.

It's a difficult chicken/egg sort of situation. If lots more people ate out regularly, then restaurants could offer better value. We need a cultural shift in dining. But where is it to start?
What we need are lots of smaller restaurants providing good value rather than 100+ seater restaurants providing cheap rubbish.

I'm sorry, but it is up to people in the trade to educate the public that there is quality and value and service to be had out there and that's not going to be done by calling the public ignorant and insisting that every extra must be charged for.

I really do know how difficult it is and how overdrafts are a thing of the past and how close to the edge many restaurants are but if this cultural shift doesn't come from the trade, all those restaurants on the edge will go under.
It's your move.

I do everything i can to educate the Iirsh public about the food im passionate about, but in my varied experience only a small percentage are interested.
However if you go abroad you will find a completly different attitude towords food and it shows in the restaurants.....dont think i ever saw a carvery in france;)
As for calling people ignorant...yea some are...you put up with them...if they get more ignorant about spending 1 euro extra for icecream when its clearly displayed on a menu card, then it will be explained to them, and if they still arnt happy it will be taken from their bill, no question, But Who wins? hes gone off feeling smug, and i feel hes a d$*k.
There is an underlying feeling in this thread that restaurants are out to rip you off, some do but like i said i cant speak for them, i can only go on my experience and how i run my business, every price is clear and displayed, there are no hidden costs, no service charge, no credit card charge, no charge for calling taxis, dropping customers home...the list gose on...
we only charge for what you have comsumed....extra scoop and all;)

Mr.Boots

AARRRGH wrote: »

I eat out a lot - it used to be two or three times a day, but is now only two or three times a week.

If I was a regular customer in a restaurant and they charged me €2 for a scoop of ice cream, I would be offended and would never eat there again. If I wasn't a regular customer, I would think they are scabs and would also never eat there again.

I completely understand there is a cost difference - I am a business owner myself. However, it would be easy for a restaurant to keep a block of low cost ice cream (e.g. HB honeycomb ice cream) for moments like this.

So even though the customer may be unreasonable in expecting something for nothing, the only solution where both parties win is cheap ice cream. The reason I suggested the HB honeycomb ice cream is because it is tasty and I am always happy to see it on my plate!

No ofence but if HB ever graced my freezer i might as well close because i will no longer be doing my best to give the customer something special.
some understad this...some dont.....

drkpower

Mr.Boots wrote: »

I think you would argue with your feet..

I do; and by telling others of restaurants which provide poor service.

Mr.Boots wrote: »

Anyway you arguement wasnt about disclosing a price on a menu, it was that you personnaly dont want to pay the extra for icecream....because you feel you shouldnt have to.
Read over the thread again...i think you loosing the run of yourself.

You are being disingenuous again. Im beginning to see your difficulty. You dont listen - a very dangerous thing in your business.

I made a number of different points through this discussion. I never said "I shouldnt have to" pay for the icecream because "I personally dont want to". What I repeatedly said was that it was bad business to do so. And I did suggest changing the menu if people keep asking for icecream. I've called you on your dishonesty before. Stop being so dishonest. Its pathetic.

drkpower wrote:

Aside from any moral argument, its simply bad business to do so.

They don't, that is the point; it is an occasional customer who will make this request so it has little effect on ultimate margins. But bad word of mouth from a handful of punters can have a big effect. Its simply bad business to charge these minor amounts.

And if 50-6-70& of people start asking specifically for icecream, you might want to think of changing your menu - and then, if someone asks for cream instead, you are saving money and keeping the customers happy. Win win.

It is also true that something like 4 in 10 customers will tell a friend/colleague of a good customer service outcome while 7-8/10 will tell them of a negative outcome. So, that extra scoop of icecream must be costing you big money if you are willing to risk a few customers being pissed off over.

And if it is a common phenomenon, factor it into your pricing structure. But dont annoy a customer because your pricing structire is inflexible.

AARRRGH

Mr.Boots wrote: »

No ofence but if HB ever graced my freezer i might as well close because i will no longer be doing my best to give the customer something special.
some understad this...some dont.....

But it would allow you to give the customer what she wants - ice cream instead of cream at no extra charge - and it wouldn't cost you anything.

It seems like a reasonable compromise.

Mr.Boots

AARRRGH wrote: »

But it would allow you to give the customer what she wants - ice cream instead of cream at no extra charge - and it wouldn't cost you anything.

It seems like a reasonable compromise.

Compromise is something i dont do when it comes to produce.

Mr.Boots

drkpower wrote: »

I do; and by telling others of restaurants which provide poor service.



You are being disingenuous again. Im beginning to see your difficulty. You dont listen - a very dangerous thing in your business.

I made a number of different points through this discussion. I never said "I shouldnt have to" pay for the icecream because "I personally dont want to". What I repeatedly said was that it was bad business to do so. And I did suggest changing the menu if people keep asking for icecream. I've called you on your dishonesty before. Stop being so dishonest. Its pathetic.

One thing i am not is dishonest and i do listen but you arguement is all over the place, read back over it.

drkpower

Mr.Boots wrote: »

One thing i am not is dishonest and i do listen but you arguement is all over the place, read back over it.

Whats most disappointing is that you cant take the criticism or point out where I am "all over the place". I have made a number of points in this thread; you have accepted some of them. You have accused me of saying something that I did not. I quoted directly what I did say. And all you can come back with is "read the thread".

Grow up; if you want to engage in discussion, do so honestly; if not, go away.

If this is how you converse with cusstomers, no wonder you feel that your customers who complain are "d%£ks"; you are not listening to them.

AARRRGH

Mr.Boots wrote: »

Compromise is something i dont do when it comes to produce.

Being stubborn isn't good for business.

I would imagine most customers would rather you compromised instead of charging them an extra €2.

Mr.Boots

drkpower wrote: »

Whats most disappointing is that you cant take the criticism or point out where I am "all over the place". I have made a number of points in this thread; you have accepted some of them. You have accused me of saying something that I did not. I quoted directly what I did say. And all you can come back with is "read the thread".

Grow up; if you want to engage in discussion, do so honestly; if not, go away.

If this is how you converse with cusstomers, no wonder you feel that your customers who complain are "d%£ks"; you are not listening to them.

Appoligies if i ofended, but i just felt you entire arguemnet apart from a few points was based on you not wanting to pay a little extra.
I gave genuine reasons and facts.
Please dont insult me by saying i need to grow up and be honest, you dont know me and i take that seriously.
Offer me the respect i have offered you.