Why no march against public sector

average_runner

IF There is massive rage in private sector towards public sector why no march in the towns and cities of Ireland planned?


We march against everything else!

ei.sdraob

why bother

let them run the country further into the ground

they are only hurting themselves in the long term by striking

average_runner

Hurting us and the future for our kids also!

ei.sdraob

average_runner wrote: »

Hurting us and the future for our kids also!

they have more to loose in long term

evercloserunion

Because the "massive rage" against the public sector is the preserve of a few bitter internet hacks TBH. In real life there is some dissatisfaction with the public sector, sure, but there is also some understanding. I have heard anecdotal evidence that the increase in unemployment has aided the public perception of the PS in some ways, because more people were going into dole offices and so they actually got to see PS workers incredibly stressed and run off there feet, yet performing their duties efficiently and satisfactorily in the circumstances.

TheInquisitor

evercloserunion wrote: »

Because the "massive rage" against the public sector is the preserve of a few bitter internet hacks TBH. In real life there is some dissatisfaction with the public sector, sure, but there is also some understanding. I have heard anecdotal evidence that the increase in unemployment has aided the public perception of the PS in some ways, because more people were going into dole offices and so they actually got to see PS workers incredibly stressed and run off there feet, yet performing their duties efficiently and satisfactorily in the circumstances.

What a load of Bull.

Over paid , underworked shelfish ingrates with a guaranteed pensionable job.

schween

Or a march against Congress?

evercloserunion

TheInquisitor wrote: »

What a load of Bull.

Over paid , underworked shelfish ingrates with a guaranteed pensionable job.

Damn. You've finally cracked the secret of public sector workers...

thebman

Yeah so anyway we don't march often despite the few marches that have occurred for invested interests.

As for people that don't think the public sector should strike but think they need a pay cut. They don't need to march because that is what is going to happen. okay there maybe one or two days strike but realistically even the unions know the government can't pay out and the realistic people in the public service do too.

So basically there is no need to march as that is what is going to happen. People here aren't complaining but trying to reason with the people that haven't woken up to the situation we are in yet. And none of us want your pay cut, we just know the government can't afford to pay you and if they increase taxes much further, the economy will get worse and if they borrow it, the ECB/IMF will eventually say enough is enough and then you'll see what real cuts look like.

So cope the fook on and realise nobody wants to cut your pay, your pay has to be cut :rolleyes:

thethedev

Yeah lets divide the country so that instead of fighting the real problems we can just squabble amongst ourselves.
Just like the way we were when the English arrived, and we all know what happened then.

murphaph

thethedev wrote: »

Yeah lets divide the country so that instead of fighting the real problems we can just squabble amongst ourselves.
Just like the way we were when the English arrived, and we all know what happened then.

The country is already divided, into those with secure well paid and very well pensioned jobs, and those that pay for it all

evercloserunion

murphaph wrote: »

The country is already divided, into those with secure well paid and very well pensioned jobs, and those that pay for it all

That divide is not along public and private sector though. It is the divide between those at the top who run the show and everyone else. Those in the former category include people in the private sector, and those in the latter category include people in the public sector.

ei.sdraob

evercloserunion wrote: »

That divide is not along public and private sector though. It is the divide between those at the top who run the show and everyone else. Those in the former category include people in the private sector, and those in the latter category include people in the public sector.

so our government who are subset of the public sector dont run the show

murf313

TheInquisitor wrote: »

What a load of Bull.

Over paid , underworked shelfish ingrates with a guaranteed pensionable job.

any links for that???

irish begrudgery at its best.......

Tipp Man

evercloserunion wrote: »

Because the "massive rage" against the public sector is the preserve of a few bitter internet hacks TBH. In real life there is some dissatisfaction with the public sector, sure, but there is also some understanding. I have heard anecdotal evidence that the increase in unemployment has aided the public perception of the PS in some ways, because more people were going into dole offices and so they actually got to see PS workers incredibly stressed and run off there feet, yet performing their duties efficiently and satisfactorily in the circumstances.

what a crock of s##t to be honest

The real reason that there won't be protests is that too many households have an income from the public sector, there are something like 330k public sector employees, everyone has a relative and or friends employed in the PS and are simply unwilling to be seen to protest against them. It just won't happen because too many households gain from it

Tipp Man

evercloserunion wrote: »

That divide is not along public and private sector though. It is the divide between those at the top who run the show and everyone else. Those in the former category include people in the private sector, and those in the latter category include people in the public sector.

The divide is completly along the lines of public v private, your only codding yourself if you think otherwise

bladespin

The public sector haven't actually done anything to provoke marching yet (do we always march? News to me), I think they're entitled to voice disappointment at threatened wage cuts etc. The unions have made calls etc but no-one's downed tools AFIK.

BTW I'm a private sector worker, just in case you're wondering.

evercloserunion

ei.sdraob wrote: »

so our government who are subset of the public sector dont run the show

They run the show, but so do the heads of the banks and large corporations. You'll find that all those people are very well looked after financially.

Heroditas

evercloserunion wrote: »

That divide is not along public and private sector though. It is the divide between those at the top who run the show and everyone else. Those in the former category include people in the private sector, and those in the latter category include people in the public sector.

Those in the former category also include union heads who are still milking it. Take Begg for example - non-executive director of Aer Lingus and is also on the board of the Central Bank.
No conflict of interests there eh?

lmimmfn

ahh leave them at it, it'll only give more people a better excuse to leave.

Absurdum

worst thread EVAR

ednwireland

too busy working (private sector)

cyclopath2001

average_runner wrote: »

IF There is massive rage in private sector towards public sector why no march in the towns and cities of Ireland planned?We march against everything else!

Because there isn't. Unless you write for the 'Independent'.

People know who the real villains are.

irish_bob

average_runner wrote: »

IF There is massive rage in private sector towards public sector why no march in the towns and cities of Ireland planned?


We march against everything else!

i myself am willing to partake in any planned counter demonstration , i feel very strongly about seeing my country destroyed by unelected scum like jack o connor

i will happily travel to wherever the battle lies

irish_bob

thebman wrote: »

Yeah so anyway we don't march often despite the few marches that have occurred for invested interests.

As for people that don't think the public sector should strike but think they need a pay cut. They don't need to march because that is what is going to happen. okay there maybe one or two days strike but realistically even the unions know the government can't pay out and the realistic people in the public service do too.

So basically there is no need to march as that is what is going to happen. People here aren't complaining but trying to reason with the people that haven't woken up to the situation we are in yet. And none of us want your pay cut, we just know the government can't afford to pay you and if they increase taxes much further, the economy will get worse and if they borrow it, the ECB/IMF will eventually say enough is enough and then you'll see what real cuts look like.

So cope the fook on and realise nobody wants to cut your pay, your pay has to be cut :rolleyes:

oh cuts will come , im just not sure they will be signed off on by and irish elected goverment , brian cowen is an incredibly weak willed man , even today he was blathering on about finding common ground with the social partners , how the man can carry that keg under his jumper is beyond me , the man is spineless

irish_bob

Tipp Man wrote: »

what a crock of s##t to be honest

The real reason that there won't be protests is that too many households have an income from the public sector, there are something like 330k public sector employees, everyone has a relative and or friends employed in the PS and are simply unwilling to be seen to protest against them. It just won't happen because too many households gain from it

ive said it a million times , if their is one thing irish people value , its keeping money in the family

thinking of the national interest is an alien concept to most people in this country

Absurdum

irish_bob wrote: »

i myself am willing to partake in any planned counter demonstration , i feel very strongly about seeing my country destroyed by unelected scum like jack o connor

i will happily travel to wherever the battle lies

How is Jack O'Connor destroying our country?? He was elected General President of SIPTU, most of its members are private sector workers.

evercloserunion

ednwireland wrote: »

too busy working (private sector)

Really? I thought all the private sector workers had been laid off.

thebman

evercloserunion wrote: »

Really? I thought all the private sector workers had been laid off.

No just lots, if all had been laid off you'd be fooking homeless yourself.

People like you should be the first to be let go and let people that actually want to work for a fair wage have your position. Loads of them in the dole queue just waiting to have your job for less than your willing to do it for :rolleyes:

irish_bob

Absurdum wrote: »

How is Jack O'Connor destroying our country?? He was elected General President of SIPTU, most of its members are private sector workers.

i and the majority of the population never saw a box beside his name on any ballot paper yet he plays russian roulette with the countrys economic future by threatning to bring the country to a standstill unless illegitimite demands are met

evercloserunion

thebman wrote: »

No just lots, if all had been laid off you'd be fooking homeless yourself.

People like you should be the first to be let go and let people that actually want to work for a fair wage have your position. Loads of them in the dole queue just waiting to have your job for less than your willing to do it for :rolleyes:

Are you implying that I am a member of the public sector?

Because if you are, you are wrong.

cyclopath2001

irish_bob wrote: »

i and the majority of the population never saw a box beside his name on any ballot paper yet he plays russian roulette with the countrys economic future

Who did you vote for? Sean FitzPatrick?

thebman

evercloserunion wrote: »

Are you implying that I am a member of the public sector?

Because if you are, you are wrong, but then that's nothing new.

No I'm saying you need to learn to think before you post :rolleyes:

evercloserunion

thebman wrote: »

No I'm saying you need to learn to think before you post :rolleyes:

You need to learn to discuss the issue rather than personalising everything.

FWIW I wouldn't wish for you to be sacked, despite our disagreements.

thebman

evercloserunion wrote: »

You need to learn to discuss the issue rather than personalising everything.

FWIW I wouldn't wish for you to be sacked, despite our disagreements.

Really? I thought all the private sector workers had been laid off.

You should not make statements like this when there are so many unemployed in the country IMO. It is ridiculously disrespectful.

aftermn

Wallies, the lot of you.

Are AIB public or private sector?

In our current environment should they be getting a pay rise?

Should NAMA protect our taxpayers or the shareholders/bondholders?

You are being side-tracked.

Absurdum

irish_bob wrote: »

i and the majority of the population never saw a box beside his name on any ballot paper yet he plays russian roulette with the countrys economic future by threatning to bring the country to a standstill unless illegitimite demands are met

the (almost) majority of the population did, however, see and tick the box next to FF......you need to get real here

K-9

Absurdum wrote: »

How is Jack O'Connor destroying our country?? He was elected General President of SIPTU, most of its members are private sector workers.

Unions are dying:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0410/unions.html

They don't represent most workers anymore, they are a Public Sector lobby group.

Absurdum

ok

ParkRunner

irish_bob wrote: »

i myself am willing to partake in any planned counter demonstration , i feel very strongly about seeing my country destroyed by unelected scum like jack o connor

i will happily travel to wherever the battle lies

Bring it on

irish_bob

Absurdum wrote: »

the (almost) majority of the population did, however, see and tick the box next to FF......you need to get real here

whats your point exactly

wicklowmale

Ok i have a few questions and if anyone can provide some REAL answers that would be great.

1) Re: Pensions: I understand in the private sector when you retire we can take one yrs salary tax free, isn't it correct that the Public sector you can take 1.5-2 times your salary tax free? In this case i can understand they should contribute more towards pesions than the private sector

2) Why should the private sector take the brunt of the redundancies in the country? approx. 200,000 so far in the private sector but none in the Public sector

3) Economists in ireland and abroad (IMF) agree that considering the number of ppl employed in the Public sector, the yearly payrole bill is much too high.

4) As the IMF is helping to provide Ireland, and other European countries to get through this recession, If ireland does not do something serious with the Public sector(ie wage cuts, reduced overtime, redundancies etc) the IMF has the power to come in and take control. This is understanding and realistic, it would be like any bank calling in a examiner or creditor to over see the running of any company that is unable to pay its loans.

Can ppl provide real answers to the above?

cyclopath2001

wicklowmale wrote: »

Ok i have a few questions and if anyone can provide some REAL answers that would be great.

1)
2)
3)
4)

Can ppl provide real answers to the above?

Let's add:
5) Why are we bailing out the banks?
6) Why are we interfering in the property market?

It's odd that you want financial and market realities to apply to one part of the economy and not to others.

imme

Here's some more people/groups you might consider marching against:
-Fianna Fáil
-developers
-Bankers/banksters, Irish & US
-Estate Agents/Auctioneers
-The Irish Central Bank
-Irish Financial Regulator

diverdriver

We're bailing out the banks because we need banks. The economy needs banks. I need banks, you need banks. If the banks crashed, the country would quickly follow. That's why.

To go back to the original point, there is no march against the public sector because the supposed animosity against them is mostly propaganda and largely invented by their unions based on some media attitudes. The reason is simple. All of us have some connection with or relative in the public service. No one is blaming them for the recession. This is largely a myth invented by their unions to try an unify them.

However that may all change, if the public generally see them using their privileged position to avoid the worst of the cutbacks. If they go on strike and make life even more difficult for the rest of us. That will soon turn any residual sympathy into outright hostility.

People working in the PS aren't stupid. Most know they have take cuts. It has to be done. The fact that their unions seems to have an agenda which seem to involve worsening the situation will soon become obvious. There simply isn't enough private sector tax to pay their wages anymore. If nothing is done. They won't be paid at all. That's the reality they face.

I firmly believe their unions are fomenting much of this for their own political agenda. They're will be riots on November 6th, the usual anti capitalist suspects will start the trouble. Beggs has already set the tone. 'A once in a generation opportunity'. They are delighted with this opportunity.

irish_bob

diverdriver wrote: »

We're bailing out the banks because we need banks. The economy needs banks. I need banks, you need banks. If the banks crashed, the country would quickly follow. That's why.

To go back to the original point, there is no march against the public sector because the supposed animosity against them is mostly propaganda and largely invented by their unions based on some media attitudes. The reason is simple. All of us have some connection with or relative in the public service. No one is blaming them for the recession. This is largely a myth invented by their unions to try an unify them.

However that may all change, if the public generally see them using their privileged position to avoid the worst of the cutbacks. If they go on strike and make life even more difficult for the rest of us. That will soon turn any residual sympathy into outright hostility.

People working in the PS aren't stupid. Most know they have take cuts. It has to be done. The fact that their unions seems to have an agenda which seem to involve worsening the situation will soon become obvious. There simply isn't enough private sector tax to pay their wages anymore. If nothing is done. They won't be paid at all. That's the reality they face.

I firmly believe their unions are fomenting much of this for their own political agenda. They're will be riots on November 6th, the usual anti capitalist suspects will start the trouble. Beggs has already set the tone. 'A once in a generation opportunity'. They are delighted with this opportunity.

excellent post , ive been saying for a while that for the likes of jack o connor , this is about much more than nurse and teacher pay , for him its about a much broader idealogical war , he has witnessed almost twenty years of relative prosperity and is dammned if he is going to miss his chance to strike a blow against capitalism , the irony being that it is capitalism which has enriched both him and his union members

ednwireland

evercloserunion wrote: »

Really? I thought all the private sector workers had been laid off.

3 day week at start of year 10% pay cut (luckily back full time), and i'm working the bank holiday tomorrow for no extra what about yourself ?