Brian Mujati facing minimum 6month ban for pushing Nigel Owens

Chucky the tree

Found this interesting in the light of eye-gouging bans being hot topic.

It happens 12 seconds into the clip btw, I completely missed it at first. Owens waits for a stop in play the warns the players that if he does it again he is off. To be honest I'd say if he could see it again he would of send him off straight away, it looks pretty bad from Mujati point of view, I can see him getting a year or so.

Under International Rugby Board regulations, he faces a minimum 24-week suspension if he is found guilty with a life ban the maximum punishment available for the disciplinary committee that will consider the case at a date yet to be set.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/oct/19/northampton-brian-mujati-heineken-cup

Harsh or fair?

Podge_irl

I don't think it was malicious, but it was completely unnecessary. I've seen players tackle refs or knock them down before, but it was generally either unavoidable or the refs fault. I'd say he's gonna face a ban and he can't really complain. It was sheer stupidity.

Alan_007_

I don't think that it's worth a 6 month ban tbh.maybe 3 or 4 weeks since it was just a little shove.it doesn't look not like he did (or meant to do)any damage.

rgunning

There was very obvious intent in that push.

I think six months would be about right. You'd get three to four weeks in soccer, and if your comparing your discipline to that, then you are seriously dropping the standards of rugby.

I think, in comparison to most sports, referees in rugby are excellent. Anything that shows disrespect to a ref has always been punished harshly and I think it should remain so, otherwise we risk losing that quality.

And, IMHO, he should have been off. Straight red. What's worse is, he didn't apologise.

LeeroyJones

It was harmless from what I can see! Owens is a very good ref and was right to have word with him but that should be that. Sure Mafi tackled a ref a year or 2 ago!

In both cases the referee was in there line of running and it's up to the ref to get out of the way.

If you put it up against other offences committed by some other players it would be very harsh if he got anywhere near 6Months-that's ridiculous!

danthefan

LeeroyJones wrote: »

It was harmless from what I can see! Owens is a very good ref and was right to have word with him but that should be that. Sure Mafi tackled a ref a year or 2 ago!

In both cases the referee was in there line of running and it's up to the ref to get out of the way.

If you put it up against other offences committed by some other players it would be very harsh if he got anywhere near 6Months-that's ridiculous!

Are you for real? You cannot under any circumstances purposefully lay your hands on a ref. It is not up to him to get out of the way, he was well placed and Mujati came up behind him, he'd have needed eyes in the back of his head. Mafi tackling the ref was clearly not intended.

PhatPiggins

Anyone catch the Rugby Club this week? Lee Thomas's push on the ref in the season opener was far far worse but nothing was even said about.

Once again we see the citing discrepancies in the rulings between the ERC and the domestic unions.

copacetic

I've seen similar things a number of times when refs have gotten in the way, he pushed him a bit high up and a little hard maybe but he hardly expected Owens to go stumbling like an old man. Warning, and a one game ban.

PhatPiggins

You know what I really liked about Owens there, is that he waited for play to stop before giving him a warning and then kept his head. Most of the pea happy plods we see in the ML/GP would have stopped play and carded him on the spot.

I think he's the best ref in the world by a distance.

LeeroyJones

danthefan wrote: »

Are you for real? You cannot under any circumstances purposefully lay your hands on a ref. It is not up to him to get out of the way, he was well placed and Mujati came up behind him, he'd have needed eyes in the back of his head. Mafi tackling the ref was clearly not intended.

To answer your question, Yes I am for real! I think what he did was stupid but not in any way malicious and its malicious offences which should be getting 6Month bans!!! Come on-6 months, thats effectively the rest of the season! It was a push, perhaps a penalty and the bin-maybe even a red card would be appropriate but 6 months is harsh!

To bring up past offences, Tana and Schalk get nothing a few weeks respectively and now Jennings gets 12weeks for what even the "victim" disregarded and Mujati is looking at 6 months for a silly push! Come on!! Where's the justice in that!

rgunning

LeeroyJones wrote: »

To answer your question, Yes I am for real! I think what he did was stupid but not in any way malicious and its malicious offences which should be getting 6Month bans!!! Come on-6 months, thats effectively the rest of the season! It was a push, perhaps a penalty and the bin-maybe even a red card would be appropriate but 6 months is harsh!

A problem here would be precidence. If he gets off lightly for a push that is intentional (and not to gain access to play), the next time a ref is pushed intentionally and without cause, a disciplinary board would be asked "how come we don't just get a one match ban?".

Allowing any non-play related physical contact with a referee is a slippery slope, and a very definite line should always be there and enforced.

Spore

What a goddamn retarded thing to do. It was like watching a seven year old having a chance to lash out 'legitimately' at his teacher. Seriously stupid. Hope he gets the six months he deserves. Every other case of the ref getting hit or tackled that I've seen has been completely accidental. In this case the guy acted like any bully would - completely cowardly push from behind. An eighteen stone monster on an eleven stone ref. Six months minimum Brian.

danthefan

LeeroyJones wrote: »

To answer your question, Yes I am for real! I think what he did was stupid but not in any way malicious and its malicious offences which should be getting 6Month bans!!! Come on-6 months, thats effectively the rest of the season! It was a push, perhaps a penalty and the bin-maybe even a red card would be appropriate but 6 months is harsh!

To bring up past offences, Tana and Schalk get nothing a few weeks respectively and now Jennings gets 12weeks for what even the "victim" disregarded and Mujati is looking at 6 months for a silly push! Come on!! Where's the justice in that!

It was intentional though, I'll say it til I'm blue in the face, going near the ref is completely unacceptable. Those other things you mentioned are different offences.

rgunning

And as regards previous offences, ref pushing gets you: six months (someone from England); 2 year ban with 18 months suspended (Monty, I think, on a linesman).

And in rugby, referees are instructed to take in to consideration the standard of players. Therefore, the highest standard should be judged the harshest, both in play and in later disciplinary actions. I wholehearted agree with this, otherwise you get the EPL soccer syndrome. Kids see Rooney, Gerrard, Teerry etc say and do what they like to referees and do it themselves.

LeeroyJones

rgunning wrote: »

A problem here would be precidence. If he gets off lightly for a push that is intentional (and not to gain access to play), the next time a ref is pushed intentionally and without cause, a disciplinary board would be asked "how come we don't just get a one match ban?".

Allowing any non-play related physical contact with a referee is a slippery slope, and a very definite line should always be there and enforced.

I understand your point certainly. However disciplinary boards should be there to take each case individually.

If a player is running towards the ball, player with the ball, a ruck(in this case) and the referee is in his path and the player decides to push him then a good referee will give him a telling off, maybe a card and he should receive no more then a match or two ban. Nobody can accuse of Mujati premeditating a push on Owens!

If a player intimidates, provokes or strikes a referee with intent then the book should be thrown at them.

These are the judgments for the disciplinary boards to make and I for one am fed up of dangerous offences getting off lightly and stupid offences like the one in question getting huge bans.

Goodluck2me

I think 3 months is fair purely for his reaction to when he was warned about it/ Obvious intent therefore ban.

gcgirl

What a stupid thing to do and he knew what he was doing he could of passed him out and thus not face a ban but he was just asking for trouble doing that and I hope he gets punished accordinly !

Chucky the tree

Actually looking at it again I'd give him the full two years. 1 for the push, and 1 for pure stupidity. No only that but it was 100% intended. He easily could of avoided him, the fact Mujati is basically strolling in doesn't help either. Anytime you accidently run into someone just about have enough time to get you're hands up to act as a cushin, mujati has enough time to fully extent his arms. No way this was an accident.

Get rid of him, sport doesn't need this kind of stupidity.

I've watched it a few times, and watched his reaction to the scolding too, and this is intentional and dangerous too, as anyone who's ever been involved in any sort of whiplash incident.
Edit: Notice how he actually puts force into the "shove" as opposed to just bumping into Owens.

If anyone can give me one solid reason why this guy should get away / away lightly with this, I'll be very impressed. It was totally uncalled for, the referee isn't a lazy runner returning from a ruck and in your way, he's an essential part of the game.

drkpower

LeeroyJones wrote: »

Nobody can accuse of Mujati premeditating a push on Owens!

If a player intimidates, provokes or strikes a referee with intent then the book should be thrown at them.

What clip were you watching?
He struck the referee with intent. It was premeditated (maybe not the night before but he ran up behind him knowing what he was going to do!).

I think 6 months is entirely reasonable. You cannot compare offence against fellow players to offences against the referee. Once you start having anything other than a zero tolerance atttitude to assaulting the ref, you are in dangerous territory indeed.

anonymous_joe

rgunning wrote: »

There was very obvious intent in that push.

I think six months would be about right. You'd get three to four weeks in soccer, and if your comparing your discipline to that, then you are seriously dropping the standards of rugby.

I think, in comparison to most sports, referees in rugby are excellent. Anything that shows disrespect to a ref has always been punished harshly and I think it should remain so, otherwise we risk losing that quality.

And, IMHO, he should have been off. Straight red. What's worse is, he didn't apologise.

You'd get way more in football I think... How long did Di Canio get?

He's a tool for doing it. Totally unnecessary.

chupacabra

There was plenty of room for Mujati to run around Owens. The ruck had formed and its not like Owens was standing in the way of a pick and go, Mujati was late to the ruck and had no right to lay a finger on the ref, should have gotten a red, will get a long ban i think. And as for the people saying that Owens shouldn't have gone tumbling like an old man, Mujati is MUCH bigger than him and when you aren't expecting a shove like that, you tend to lose balance for a moment and go with the momentum.

MarVeL

He reached out to push him as Owens was moving back. If it had been possible for Owens to see it it would have been a straight red as far as I can see followed by a lengthy ban. Since Owens couldn't see it we'll have to settle for just the lengthy ban.

I didn't see the game just the clip above but was Mujati pinged by Owens for anything earlier in the game because that shove had a certain amount of venom in it?

Narkius Maximus

That chap needs a long ban. Intentional, petulant shove. Didn't even hit the ruck after 'cleaning' the ref. No remorse demonstrated.

Standards in rugby need to be maintained-I hate watching kids playing GAA or soccer remonstrating with the ref like the do in Premier league or championships.

Strict discipline, fair play, good game!

On a separate note: Jennings was done!

LeeroyJones

drkpower wrote: »

What clip were you watching?
He struck the referee with intent. It was premeditated (maybe not the night before but he ran up behind him knowing what he was going to do!).

I think 6 months is entirely reasonable. You cannot compare offence against fellow players to offences against the referee. Once you start having anything other than a zero tolerance atttitude to assaulting the ref, you are in dangerous territory indeed.

Assaulting the ref you say!! A push is not an assault! Eye gouging is an assault, not pushing!! I understand your arguments but they become less valid if you become hyper-sensitive! If people were saying give him a 6-week ban I would probably keep my mouth shut(whilst I may not fully agree) but 6 Months is a ban I would prfer to keep for those who actually do not deserve to play rugby for club or country for the season

As everyone seems to agree on, Owens is quality ref. Why do you think he didn't pull out a card on him? Because he understood that in the context of the incident, he was in the path of Mujati-yes Mujati was stupid and should not have done it and would have understood had he been given his marching orders but Owens opted not to. People seem to be acting as though Mujati had a personal vandetta against Owens!

I would be very interested in peoples poin of view had this been a Leinter/Munster or any Irish player involvd!

With regards your point on not comparing offences against fellow players to offences against the referee. I think this is dangerous territory-not in the case of a push but for the other malicious offences. Why should a player be subject of gouging & potential blindness. If player for some reason wanted to gouge a ref there would be uproar(rightly so) but why is it less of offence to do it on a player. Some offences are simply assaults on human beings and it shouldnt matter if the victim is a player, ref, coach or fan the offender should be dealt with equally. Please may I stress this is me saying stamp down on truely awful offences and please be able to differentiate between an assault and petty stupid incidences!

r0nanf

I'd agree with the majority of posters here, there was plenty of space to run around Owens. He didn't bump into him, he shoved him in the back. Petulant, stupid thing to do. He deserves a long ban so a marker is laid down. The respect for referees is the only thing that keeps the game from descending into a bloodbath everytime pro teams take the field.

dub_skav

It wasn't much of an incident to be fair. But a ban would be deserved.

There was very little chance of causing injury but he could have avoided Owens entirely or he could certainly have eased him aside, it is the effort in the push that will be his undoing.

I myself have eased referees aside with one hand - if for instance they are blocking you in defence on the fringe of a ruck - and all refs take this as part of the game. If he had eased Owens out of his way there would be no debate, but he blatantly pushed him and indeed had to slow down to do it.

Deserves a ban but not 6 months

CdeC

6 months, pretty tough but I'd say deserved, I mean the force of that shove.
Also the guy is obviously an idiot shoving a ref and probably only there because he's probably chew his own mothers ear off to gain 2 yards.

(ps : dont tell him I said that)

toomevara

Anybody see the incident in the first weekend of the GP, during the Sale/Leicester game? Far,far worse than the Mujati incident. Lee Thomas shoved the ref to the ground...what came of it? absolutely nothing.....amazing inconsistency....they showed a clip of it on the rugby club last night, can't track it down anywhere else.

As for the Mujati ruling fair dues. You cannot touch the referee in the game of rugby. That's sacrosanct. There's already a huge level of simulation and playacting coming into the game...we can do without disrespect for the ref coming in as well....

PYRO#1

That was intended he deserves 6 months.
Owens is a legend!!!

uberwolf

LeeroyJones wrote: »

Assaulting the ref you say!! A push is not an assault! Eye gouging is an assault, not pushing!!

legally it is.

LeeroyJones wrote: »

I understand your arguments but they become less valid if you become hyper-sensitive! If people were saying give him a 6-week ban I would probably keep my mouth shut(whilst I may not fully agree) but 6 Months is a ban I would prfer to keep for those who actually do not deserve to play rugby for club or country for the season

I see what you're saying, but the ref is sacrosanct. For me this wasn't an accident. He has physically abused the ref.

LeeroyJones wrote: »

As everyone seems to agree on, Owens is quality ref. Why do you think he didn't pull out a card on him? Because he understood that in the context of the incident, he was in the path of Mujati-yes Mujati was stupid and should not have done it and would have understood had he been given his marching orders but Owens opted not to. People seem to be acting as though Mujati had a personal vandetta against Owens!

Owens was unsighted, and so couldn't be sure what had happened. Even the commentator said it was lenient, without having noticed it in real time.

LeeroyJones wrote: »

I would be very interested in peoples poin of view had this been a Leinter/Munster or any Irish player involvd!

laws are laws.

LeeroyJones wrote: »

With regards your point on not comparing offences against fellow players to offences against the referee. I think this is dangerous territory-not in the case of a push but for the other malicious offences. Why should a player be subject of gouging & potential blindness. If player for some reason wanted to gouge a ref there would be uproar(rightly so) but why is it less of offence to do it on a player. Some offences are simply assaults on human beings and it shouldnt matter if the victim is a player, ref, coach or fan the offender should be dealt with equally. Please may I stress this is me saying stamp down on truely awful offences and please be able to differentiate between an assault and petty stupid incidences!

again, I see where you're coming from. But rugby is a physical contact sport. Each of the fouls you reference are a escalation of the physical contact to an illegal point. Deliberate physical contact with the ref is not permissible at all. He has assaulted the ref. And whilst in the scheme of rugby contact it is light, he deserves the letter of the law.

Ceartgoleor

One of the things that is so admired about the game of rugby from other sports is the respect the players have for the referee and the way the referee is generally treated well at all levels of rugby. What Mujati did is simply unacceptable. There was no excuse for it whatsoever; he wasn't even in the direct line of the ruck. Theres no point in comparing it to other offences directly because its at a different level-you could be trying to rake a ball free and stamp on a player in the heat of the moment, you could be involved in grappling with another player and accidently have your hands in his face or something (i'm not condoning these things either, but they will crop up in the course of the match), but it will never be acceptable or understandable to just push the referee knowingly in that manner.

duckysauce

PYRO#1 wrote: »

That was intended he deserves 6 months.
Owens is a legend!!!

why ? is owens a legend ???????????

from wales for a start! a legend dont get it any reasons ?

anonymous_joe

duckysauce wrote: »

why ? is owens a legend ???????????

from wales for a start! a legend dont get it any reasons ?

Best ref ever?

Brave man for coming to terms with his sexuality and back from the brink of suicide?

Fairly impressive, n'est pas?

PYRO#1

Whats his being from Wales have anything to do with it??????????????

One of the very best if not the best refs in the world. End of.

Ceartgoleor

PYRO#1 wrote: »

Whats his being from Wales have anything to do with it??????????????

One of the very best if not the best refs in the world. End of.

No disputing hes one of the best refs in the world, but I don't even think that should be the issue here. We've all had referees who you think are terrible on occasion for a variety of reasons, but the rugby way is still to shake hands with the referee after the game and thank him, and thats the way it should be. Incidents like this are only bad for the game.

PYRO#1

Ceartgoleor wrote: »

One of the things that is so admired about the game of rugby from other sports is the respect the players have for the referee and the way the referee is generally treated well at all levels of rugby.

I agree.
But you have to admire Owens for the way he handled it too. Alot of refs could learn alot from him.
Maybe he should have given a card for it but he didnt lose the rag and blow up there and then. He waited til the break in play and made his case.
How many others would do that in the face of such idiotic behaving?

Ceartgoleor

PYRO#1 wrote: »

I agree.
But you have to admire Owens for the way he handled it too. Alot of refs could learn alot from him.
Maybe he should have given a card for it but he didnt lose the rag and blow up there and then. He waited til the break in play and made his case.
How many others would do that in the face of such idiotic behaving?

Yeah I definitely agree! I'm not a referee but I know I for one would be fuming in the circumstances!

funky penguin

He managed to stay standing after an 18 stone prop intentionally pushed him in the back.

If that isn't impressive, I don't know what is.

drkpower

LeeroyJones wrote: »

Assaulting the ref you say!! A push is not an assault! !

I think you will find that a push, or a shove in this case, is an assault, particularly when it is done against a referee, who shouldnt even be spoken to out of turn.

LeeroyJones wrote: »

With regards your point on not comparing offences against fellow players to offences against the referee. I think this is dangerous territory-not in the case of a push but for the other malicious offences. Why should a player be subject of gouging & potential blindness. If player for some reason wanted to gouge a ref there would be uproar(rightly so) but why is it less of offence to do it on a player. Some offences are simply assaults on human beings and it shouldnt matter if the victim is a player, ref, coach or fan the offender should be dealt with equally. Please may I stress this is me saying stamp down on truely awful offences and please be able to differentiate between an assault and petty stupid incidences!

Do you really think that a violent offence against a referee should carry the same punishment as one against a player? For instance, should a stamp on a player be dealt with in the same way as a stamp on a refereee?

If you do, I really dont know what to say to you. Its a bizarre viewpoint. Rugby should be proud of the respect that is given to referees generally. It is vital to the smooth running of a pretty 'violent' game. You see in soccer what can happen where referees are not respected. I would never suggest that violent incidents vs players shouldnt be dealt with firmly, but physical interference with the referee is a far more significant offence and should be treated accordingly.

Profiler

A very stupid thing done by Mujati there. He will quite rightly get a ban for that.

Sangre

The book should be thrown at him, from behind, when he isn't looking.

LeeroyJones

drkpower wrote: »

I think you will find that a push, or a shove in this case, is an assault, particularly when it is done against a referee, who shouldnt even be spoken to out of turn.



Do you really think that a violent offence against a referee should carry the same punishment as one against a player? For instance, should a stamp on a player be dealt with in the same way as a stamp on a refereee?

If you do, I really dont know what to say to you. Its a bizarre viewpoint. Rugby should be proud of the respect that is given to referees generally. It is vital to the smooth running of a pretty 'violent' game. You see in soccer what can happen where referees are not respected. I would never suggest that violent incidents vs players shouldnt be dealt with firmly, but physical interference with the referee is a far more significant offence and should be treated accordingly.

First off before I respond I just want to say I cannot access internet for the next 2 maybe 3 days so I'm afraid I'm going to have to park my side of the debate here! I hope not to come off as rude by not replying to any future responses!

Your point regarding stamping: stamping is a part of the game and I fully accept that. However, it is only a part of the game if an opponent is killing the ball. If a player stamps on an opponent for no reason then yes I believe the offender should be given a lengthy ban.

Rugby should be proud of the respect that is given to referees generally . Agreed but Rugby should be ashamed of the fact that offences such as those of Umaga on BOD and Berger on Fitzgerald amongst many many more(chose those 2 as they're 2 high-profile ones in Ireland) are treated as "part of the game" just because BOD and Fitzgerald are fellow players. This is my point which I think you may have seen from a different angle. I am not for a second saying Referee's being hit should be part of the game-quite the opposite. I'm say that rugby players should be protected by the IRB and all associations involved against such terrible offences like the ones above and it shouldnt matter for a second that they are players.

If I can just go back to the Mujati case and give my final opinion.
It was stupid, ok a push is techinically an assualt but come on-in that case I've been "assaulted" hundreds of time! I do understand everybody's points of view but I still hold the opinion that 6 Months is being over the top and hyper-sensitive to a stupid incident. We see too often players getting properly assaulted and it rarely gets as much coverage as this push on Owens. Yes referees must be protected and a few games on the sideline for Mujati would make him think twice but I do not believe it would be more productive to just finish his season now-actually it would probably make him resent the authorities!

Anyway, must park it there for now!

stephen_n

It's buffering a bit when i'm watching it so can't really see clearly but does owens take a step back into his path as he is coming up? Still a stupid thing to do put your hands on a ref is a no, no but I really don't think there was any malice involved in that!

thomond2006

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/my_club/northampton/8335175.stm

Mujati banned for 6 weeks.

He was adjudged to be suffering from concussion at the time, therefore the leinent ban.

He was looking at 24 weeks (6 months) otherwise.

ERC report: http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/12_13435.php

The_Kew_Tour

I can see both sides of the coin on this one. Myself I dont know if he really meant it or not.

Its hard call although I think he should get least few weeks for it.

Can you really push ref round like this?

Depp

too right i say

Podge_irl

I think that's a good outcome. He was stupid to do what he did and this manages to be lenient on him in this case while still sending out the message that they will come down hard on this kind of thing.

Amabokke

I've pushed refs out of the way before and even asked them to "get the F%*K" out of the way but that push was stupid, ill timed and dangerous. I don't like gaylord Owens but the push was just a bit too much.

Spore

Amabokke wrote: »

I don't like gaylord Owens but the push was just a bit too much.

Backup the goddamn truck right there, his sexuality has nothing to do with anything.

Teg Veece

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5WS8psbtI4

Brian Mujati could learn an important lesson from Mafi.

If you're going to man-handle the ref, tackle him so hard that he won't believe it happened.

Similar to how Ted tried to get away with kicking Bishop Brennan up the arse.