illness benefit medical assesment

missfrilly

Due to severe aniety and depression I have been on illness benefit and off work for the past 6 weeks. Much of my illness was due to work and with my counsellor I realised that my work place was making me worse, so I handed in my notice last week. I am genuinely ill and have had to move back home to my mums house to sort myself out. Today I received a letter from the social welfare people telling me to attend a medical exam in order to get a second opinion about my entitlement to the illness benefit. I fully intend seeking employment as soon as I am ready and able to go a week with feeling this way. I am very anxious about this test.
Has anyone here any experience of this ? What if the new doctor thinks I am ok for work when I'm not? Do they suspect I am pretending about being sick? Please any advice would be greatly appreciated

Victor

This is fairly routine, they assess alll such claims from time to time. You mention a counsellor, but have you certification from a doctor also?

missfrilly

Victor wrote: »

This is fairly routine, they assess alll such claims from time to time. You mention a counsellor, but have you certification from a doctor also?

Yes I do , I was diagnosed by a doctor who has been giving me the medical certs .She also gave me some antidepressants. Would a doctor supply me with a letter describing my symptoms and diagnosis? I supposed she would. Thanks for your reply Victor, I was panicking there , cheers again

GER12

As Victor say's this exam is part of normal review and audit procedures for continued eligibility. The DSFA doctor will assess the extent to which you are not able to work due to your certified cause of illness. This will be a comprehensive assessment on your level of functioning and the extent to which your depression affects your ability to do your usual job. While doctors in the DSFA do have a professional duty of care toward you in the context of not harming you - and for decisions to be informed - they do not prescribe treatment. They are not disputing the presence of the illness they are just assessing whether it prevents you from being in employment.

As part of their duty for informed clinical decision-making the DSFA doctor should ensure that they have made contact your medical certifier in relation to requesting an up-to-date medical report relating to your condition, medication, other treatment, consultants, hospitalisation. I have heard scenarios from clients where the Department has failed to do this - so check whether your medical certifier has received this and then contact the DSFA in writing keeping copies of all letters.

Within this exam make sure to tell these doctors how your illness affects you - in relation to your job did you have problems with other people, can you cope with stress, did you have problems with concentration or completion of tasks or jobs assigned, does your depression cause you anxiety, are you distressed, tearful, can you get out of bed, has your ability to socialize or participate in significant activities been affected, are you isolating yourself. In other words any information that will explain your case.

Also remember that its possible that the doctor that is examining you may not have any specialist knowledge of your specific condition - ie. they are not psychiatrists. Most of the doctors working in the DSFA are former GP's.

I would also advise that you bring another person into the exam with you - who can keep track of what goes on in the exam - incase it has to go to appeal. You are entitled under Medical Council Guidelines to have another person present with you for intimate exams - those can be a friend or relative.

The examining doctor will fill out a medical report during the exam. He will form an opinion within that exam on whether you are fit for work. He will send the report to the Chief Medical Advisor for approval. The file will then be sent back to the illness benefit sections and the deciding officer will then make a decision on your claim based on this medical opinion. You have the right to ask the doctor in the DSFA what his opinion is on your fitness to work - and you have the right to an answer like you would with any other doctor.

You can get access to the medical report that this DSFA doctor completes and associated records/files under FOI. I would definately recommend that you get make an application for this report and records if the DSFA refuses your entitlement as it will tell you how they made their decision and all records/files considered. You can use what's in these reports as the basis for an appeal.

GER12

As Victor say's this exam is part of normal review and audit procedures for continued eligibility. The DSFA doctor will assess the extent to which you are not able to work due to your certified cause of illness. This will be a comprehensive assessment on your level of functioning and the extent to which your depression affects your ability to do your usual job. While doctors in the DSFA do have a professional duty of care toward you in the context of not harming you - and for decisions to be informed - they do not prescribe treatment. They are not disputing the presence of the illness they are just assessing whether it prevents you from being in employment.

As part of their duty for informed clinical decision-making the DSFA doctor should ensure that they have made contact your medical certifier in relation to requesting an up-to-date medical report relating to your condition, medication, other treatment, consultants, hospitalisation. I have heard scenarios from clients where the Department has failed to do this - so check whether your medical certifier has received this and then contact the DSFA in writing keeping copies of all letters.

Within this exam make sure to tell these doctors how your illness affects you - in relation to your job did you have problems with other people, can you cope with stress, did you have problems with concentration or completion of tasks or jobs assigned, does your depression cause you anxiety, are you distressed, tearful, can you get out of bed, has your ability to socialize or participate in significant activities been affected, are you isolating yourself. In other words any information that will explain your case.

Also remember that its possible that the doctor that is examining you may not have any specialist knowledge of your specific condition - ie. they are not psychiatrists. Most of the doctors working in the DSFA are former GP's.

I would also advise that you bring another person into the exam with you - who can keep track of what goes on in the exam - incase it has to go to appeal. You are entitled under Medical Council Guidelines to have another person present with you for intimate exams - those can be a friend or relative.

The examining doctor will fill out a medical report during the exam. He will form an opinion within that exam on whether you are fit for work. He will send the report to the Chief Medical Advisor for approval. The file will then be sent back to the illness benefit sections and the deciding officer will then make a decision on your claim based on this medical opinion. You have the right to ask the doctor in the DSFA what his opinion is on your fitness to work - and you have the right to an answer like you would with any other doctor.

You can get access to the medical report that this DSFA doctor completes and associated records/files under FOI. I would definately recommend that you get make an application for this report and records if the DSFA refuses your entitlement as it will tell you how they made their decision and all records/files considered. You can use what's in these reports as the basis for an appeal.

BeatNikDub

Hi missfrilly,

How did this go for you?

bridan90

I went for a medical exam on Thursday last, an extremely stressful and very unpleasant experience. I have been claiming illness benefit since 2003 and have several chronic conditions. I was examined back in 2006 as I had requested that I be able to work part time. I was refused on the grounds that I was unfit to work. While waiting for my examination I spoke to someone who said that they too had applied to do a course and were told that they were unfit. About six months later they were called back for another examination and on that occasion their benefit was disallowed.

I have also heard that it is standard procedure for them to disallow benefit and that they always force people into appeal. I know I had to appeal the first time I applied. Does anyone know if this is true?

I have also applied for invalidity benefit and was told by that dept that I should inform the doctor of this at my examination. I told him and he said it would be noted but that it was basically the same exam anyway. I am just wondering if this will now be passed back to Invalidity pension dept or the illness benefit dept? The woman from invalidity told me my claim could take up to 9 weeks but if I have already had a medical would that still be the case?

Mr. Presentable

missfrilly wrote: »

Due to severe aniety and depression I have been on illness benefit and off work for the past 6 weeks. Much of my illness was due to work and with my counsellor I realised that my work place was making me worse, so I handed in my notice last week. I am genuinely ill and have had to move back home to my mums house to sort myself out. Today I received a letter from the social welfare people telling me to attend a medical exam in order to get a second opinion about my entitlement to the illness benefit. I fully intend seeking employment as soon as I am ready and able to go a week with feeling this way. I am very anxious about this test.
Has anyone here any experience of this ? What if the new doctor thinks I am ok for work when I'm not? Do they suspect I am pretending about being sick? Please any advice would be greatly appreciated

It's routine, OP. Surely you wouldn't want every applicant for disability etc to be simply taken at their word........You'll be fine

bridan90

I was informed today by telephone that my illness benefit has been disallowed. I had applied to the FOI for the documents pertaining to my previous reviews and this included the most recent one. From comparing them it seems that I have more things wrong with me now than I did at my last review! I had applied back then for an exemption to do a FAS CE scheme and was refused on the grounds that I was unfit for work.

This time round the doctor's review states that I am capable of the very work I was denied previously even though I have been diagnosed by a consultant with yet another illness and there has been no significant change in my other conditions. This does not make any sense to me. I intend to appeal this decision and I would advise anyone in a similar situation to do the same. In particular apply for your previous medical reports as it seems they are riddled with inconsistencies!

The doctor's writing is also pretty illegible most of it just scribbles and it seems to me that the deciding officers don't even bother to read the reports and merely look for the tick in the eligibility box.

Mr. Presentable

Out of curiosity, what are your illnesses? That you could be OK for work but not a FAS scheme

bridan90

Osteoarthritis
Hypothyroidism
Depression
Recurrent UTI's kidney and bladder problems
Erythema nodosum
Fybrocystic breast disease

Taking a whole cocktail of prescription drugs without which I probably wouldn't function at all. I have been on illness benefit for almost 7 years and in that time I have been an inpatient at least once a year and have been a regular visitor to outpatient clinics.

bridan90

Just to say all of my conditions have been diagnosed by consultant physicians and surgeons but apparently the DFSA doctor who takes less than 10 mins to examine you and can't even be bothered to write a legible report has more clout!

katie james

what was the outcome of your medical. i have completed one medical for illness benefit and the doctor from the DSCFA stated i was fit for some types of work. i appealed the decision and was examined by a second doctor and again they claimed i was capable of work. I now have to contact the appeals officer setting out my up to grounds for my appeal. has anyone else done this. i have found the whole process very upsetting as iam a genuine person with a genuine illness. please help me

P.A.C

Hi all, iv been through this many times. And each time iv been deened fit for work and iv had to appeal. Im on invalidity payment after been on illness benifit previous.
Anyway on my last assessment back in september i was deemed fit, i appealed and saw another medical assessment again i was deemed fit. I was then afforded the "opertunity" to give updated grounds for my appeal. I did this and enclosed a letter from my consultant, who clearly stated i was unfit for work as did my gp, social worker, councilor.
This was handed into their office on the 2nd of december. After 3 phonecalls and speacking to 3 different people and getting 3 different replies i was informed " they didnt receive it" even though i had been told in january different.
The guy was very rude i told him there was no way they didnt receive it and did i have copies, when i said no he then said that he didnt know why the case was still open and that i should write a letter in asap or he would close it. I sent everything in again and registered post it.
And then the tell me that they dont have the one that was registered but omg while i was kept waiting on the phone they found the december one.
And im still waiting 5 months on.

So i would defo say to anyone who is genuine to appeal and dont give up, it seems that everybody is being knocked of.
Sorry for the long post!!!

Pearson

i am due to attend an social welfare thsi week as i appealled their decision to have my illness benifit stopped, I have since been placed on stronger medicines and am attending a consultant for depression. worried that my appeal is rejected as i have heard that they are stopping every second person

Victor

If your situation is genuine, I don't think you'll have any problem. If you are depressed, you may be over-worrying.

Pearson

thanks, i am genuine and over-worrying is my middle name, had assessment today, this doctor was very nice and un-nerving.

Hi Pearson, I'm very glad the doc was sympathetic. I too suffer from a lot of pointless, unnecessary fretting and worrying, it's all part of anxiety!

yellowlabrador

I was called in today for a medical assessment. I've been on sickness benefit since january and haven't got a definite diagnosis yet. I'm not allowed to drive either until things are sorted. It was very hard trying to remember all symptoms and there are quite a few I forgot or underplayed. Ie do you get headaches?
The doctor was friendly. I'm back and forth to outpatients appointments and also waiting to see various consultants, but it all takes sooo long on a medical card. If I've got what they suspect I have, a scan would help diagnose, but the waiting list is an eternity. If you get turned down, can the welfare officer pay you while you appeal or do you need to sign on?

Pearson

if you get turned down or in my case, i appealled the decision , i have to sign on. apparently there is a 4 week turnaround for a reply of an appeal. so fingers crossed.

Pearson

Deleted User wrote: »

Hi Pearson, I'm very glad the doc was sympathetic. I too suffer from a lot of pointless, unnecessary fretting and worrying, it's all part of anxiety!

I KNOW IS IS POINTLESS FRETTING ABOUT WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN BUT IS EASIER SAID THAN DONE TO STEP OUT OF THAT PATTERN OF THINKING.

hawthorne

Have been on DB since early 2004. Passed four assessments over the years without any problems. Until I had another assessment last August and the 5th doctor declared me fit for work.
Came as a surprise to me and my GP.
They cut me of at once- by the time I got the letter I was just a week away from my last payment.
I appealed the decision and I am waiting for another medical review towards the end of the month.
I know that I am not a fake- and so does my doctor and the specialists I had to consult.
The medical tests by the assessors are a joke. You are asked a few questions and you have to show if you can stretch out your arms, sit straight, bend down, etc. The whole assessment has nothing to do with your real problems- it is impossible to do certain tests without a proper test equipment. The assessor is in a normal room with a nurse. There is a desk, three chairs and an examination bed. As equipment your man/woman has a metre to read your blood pressure and a little stick to hit you at certain points to test your reflexes. The rest is just a pen and paper.
The assessor can have- at best- only a good guess wether you are for real or a fake.
I also think that the doctor judges you also on the basis wether he finds you sympathtic or not. It is a chemistry thing.
It depends on whom you meet- you need luck !
My experience over the years- and that of others I met.
I had to sign on to JA for "administrative purposes" and have to travel once a month to a SWO 25 kilometres away. The whole thing has been a nightmare for me so far. For health reasons I find it very hard to do all the necessary steps- like going several times on long journeys through the county, filling out loads of paperwork and being partly treated like a criminal.
So far I have not seen a cent since the beginning of September.
We are living on what we have saved ... The CWO would be one place to go to to get some money to tie us over. But that means more travel, paperwork, etc.
We will get our money in the end- probably early in the new year. If there is still something left- the banks seem to get the cash all the time these days...
We have to soldier on, folks. Don't give in to the pressure....
Good luck to everybody in the same situation- and there are many like us out there!
CU
M

Victor

Talk to the CWO. Explain you have difficulty with paper work and some assistnace may be forthcoming.

hawthorne

I do not like to go to the CWO- unfortunately he is one of them who like to hit at people. Life can be very miserable from time to time- but I definetly do not need somebody on top of the usual difficulties throwing **** at me.
Got a phonecall from the DoSP 2 weeks ago. We were asked of what we had lived on the last 9 weeks since I handed in my paperwork for JA.
I told the lady that we had lived of what we had in the house- money and food wise.
She told me that there will be a check in the post at the end of the week.
Three days later I got a letter confirming that a DO had decided that I am entitled to JA. Have to collect it every Friday in the local PO.
Went to the PO last Friday and handed in my swipe card at the counter. The clerk looked at the computer screen, then around the whole PO and told me in a low voice " It is 3550 Euro and something ". I asked the girl back if that will be my weekly payment from now on. She laughed and wanted a tip for every time I come in to collect my money.
So she handed me a big pile of 100 Euro notes- my weekly dole and the back payment from the last 9 weeks.
Finally I have a weekly payment again.
I also had my reassessment for the IB some days ago.
Hopefully it went ok. This time the assessor seemed to be much more professional then the other doctor at the last time.
I will be told about the result in due course and keep you informed as well.
Good luck to all in a similar situation....

Pearson

i just sent off my second appeal review to the Appeals office, the first assessment and second assessment were with two different doctors, same nurse, -both asked SAME questions, re my depression - gave different answers at each appeal ( all correct and relevant updates at particular time). felt more prepared second time round. did'nt feel 2 inches small the second time round. both refused. just wondering if i am refused again i currently claiming dole - what happens next August when my stamps run out and i am still certified unfit by my gp / still on meds, - what do i fill in the "box " Are you available for work..." - ?

hawthorne

If you loose your appeal, your IB case will be closed. You are not entitled to any more payments under your present claim.
However- you can open a new claim- and start the procedure all over again.
If you don't do that, you are either on JB or JA. To get any of these payments you must fulfill certain conditions- like being fit for work. If your GP certifies that you are not fit for work- you do not qualify for JB or JA. It doesn't matter if you have enough stamps or not- you do not qualify for these payments because you do not fulfill the condition " I am fit for work".
This leaves you in a limbo- the IB people say you are fit for work and you are therefore not eligible for IB. But your GP declares you sick. The JB/JA people jump on that and use it as an excuse to get rid of you as well.Being not fit for work disqualifies you from JB/JA as well.
A real "Catch-22" situation and a very bad situation...
You still can go to the CWO and ask for money there. But in the medium term that is no solution either.
I was thinking that contacting any of the Irish depression self-help groups could be of benefit to you. Check out www.aware.ie . There are probably other groups as well.
At the moment I am- like you- signing on for "administrative purposes " only. When I get my doleform, I cross out the terms " I am fit for work, available for work and genuinely...bla bla bla " both in English and Irish. I sign the form and hand it in. So far there was no objection from the dole office clerks.
I will continue this procedure until my appeal is settled- whatever way- to demonstrate my position ...

cee_jay

When you have an IB claim under appeal, you can claim JSB/JSA while awaiting the outcome of the appeal, and you don't have to be fit for or looking for work during this period. However if you lose your appeal, and then wish to claim JSB/JSA, you do need to be fit for and looking for work then.

ipodrocker

im applying, back to work now, am i best to post off my forms asap or wait till i can get to the welfare office on friday??

hawthorne

Got a letter from the appeals office today telling me that I was found unfit for work in my recent assessment.
I was put back on IB and will get all missing payments as well.
As a result of this I had to sign off from JA.
Good luck to all of you !

UrbanFox

If you have a claim likely to go on for a long time it is always a good idea to apply for copies of your records - including the doctors report of the examination - under the Freedom of Information Acts.

This allows you see what they are thinking and why and can be very useful information if you are having trouble.

Information received on yourself under the Freedom of Information Acts costs nothing to obtain.

ElleEm

I found all this info very helpful but it hasn't helped my nerves.
I got that form last week and got a GP from my surgery to fill it out, she wasn't very sympathetic, seemed like she may have been having an off day! Hope I'm not called for assessment.
I'm on illness benefit since Oct, I was diagnosed with MS. I have a job, but am just off sick til the medication gets sorted and my symptoms clear up.