Dpf Problems

paddymc3

Just wondering if anyone else is having issues with Dpf's?

I have a Mazda 3 Diesel with a 1.6L PSA engine same as in focus, s40 and most peugeot's an citroen's and the Engine Management Light is repeatedly coming on. Brought to the garage on a number of occasions they refilled the additive tank. then about 2 weeks later it came back.
I have followed most of the advice eg. driving at high revs for 10-15 mins which can sometimes solve the problem short term (a week or two).
Also when the light is on the engine sounds very rough expecially at idle!

Any ideas??

Row

What milage have you coverd....??
The 1.6 hdi (110bhp) engines are much the same as yours and have
dpf issiues around 80 - 100k.
Normally when this fault comes up Peugeot normally just change the partical filter and top up the additive tank with eloys 176 ...reset the system.

I've got a 407 1.6hdi myself and it had " partical filter regeneration urgent "
@ around 77k.
I just topped up the additive tank myself and reset the system with planet 2000 (peugeots diagnostic equip) all is fine since..:)
it cost me 110 euros for the additive.
Peugeot normally charge 8-850 euros to replace the dpf and top up the additive tank...:eek:

You need to check the filter condition with some good diagnostic equip and look into live data see whats the pressure across the filter is e.g. Clean..getting blocked...or blocked.

Is the dpf regenerating every 3-400 miles ...??
Ron.

paddymc3

Ouch 800 euros!!
its covered 90k miles and ran for a while without any fluid in the system.
Dpf if regenerating a good bit more often than every 3-4k probably more in the region of every 5-600 miles.
Problem with the mazda is it has no specific dpf warning system just the engine management light.

Is a main dealer only place i am going to find the proper diagnostic equipment??

I've also heard of people removing and cleaning the dpf's do you happen to know if this is viable and/or how successful it is??

Row

If the dpf is regenerating every 5-600 miles that seems normal.

Most diagnostic equipment like launch x431..Dec superscan..snapon ..etc
should be able to check the condition of the filter....I use planet 2000
which is what Peugoet garages use...:D
As for cleaning the dpf it is possible and its a cheaper option..:)
when peugeot remove the old dpf it is sent off for cleaning and someone
else gets it as a replacment/reconditioned part...:rolleyes:

Usally remove the dpf...power hose it opposite to exhaust flow... blow out (dry)with airline and refit...maybe run the engine with the exhaust disconnected until the dpf dries out fully.....:)
I must remove my own and give it a power wash when i get time......:rolleyes:

On the 1.6 hdi the dpf is to the front of the engine and is easily acessed
for removal.
Also on these engines you have to tell the dpf ecu that your after fitting a new dpf....I did this on mine and it cleared all the faults.

below is a diagram of the 1.6 hdi (dv6) dpf which i guess is the same on yours...

if you want information on the removal of the dpf from the 1.6 hdi
P.M. me your email address and i can send you on some info.
Ron.

beetlefan

Can the dpf be removed and repaced without any diagnostic needed

Row

beetlefan wrote: »

Can the dpf be removed and repaced without any diagnostic needed

Yes it can be replaced without diagnostic equipment but it may need the equipment to clear the dpf message.
What problems are you having....??
If you topup your additive tank it will need to be reset with planet
(peugeot diagnostic equipment)
Ron.

shamwari

The DPF should have two small pipes coming from the body of it which connect to a differential pressure sensor. The hoses which connect the DPF to that sensor can get damaged and generate a false error code relating to DPF efficiency, or the sensor itself can sometimes go faulty. If your car is in the zone mileage wise then it probably is the DPF. Someone with an appropriate scanner which can read the live data should be able to see what pressures the sensor is reporting, and determine if the error is genuine (which it probably is). Some DPF's are available from spurious suppliers. I know some are for the DV6 which is fitted to the Ford Focus.

beetlefan

my 307 hdi is the 110 bhp model and it has done 57k miles. The problem is that the fan comes on almost every time after doing any journey and stays on for up to 10 mins, which is a pain as it is very loud . I had to replace the battery not too long ago and if the fan does not stop soon i will have to replace it again soon.

Row

If the fan is running all the time then theres something calling for it to run all the time or maybe one of the fan relays has gone faulty.
Dpf regens can also bring on the cooling fan if its regening to often....but with 57k your dpf should be o.k.
Think you may need to get a diagnostic check to find out where the problem
lies....
Ron.

beetlefan

thanks can you do a diagnostic check on my car? and if so where are you located, i am in mayo but am in galway most weeks

Row

Hi beetlefan,
ye i can have a look for you....If you pm me your vin number i can have a
look at what you have.I'm around 10 min drive from Claregalway out the
Roscommon road (N63).
Ron.

scooby girl no1

I think you will find Sportchip is highly recomended in dublin
he can switch off DPF so you can remove it or leave it with no errors and forget about the problem

Row

scooby girl no1 wrote: »

I think you will find Sportchip is highly recomended in dublin
he can switch off DPF so you can remove it or leave it with no errors and forget about the problem

Have you any idea of the cost...??

scooby girl no1

I might be totally wrong but he was doing it for €350;
I think it's cheaper now but you'll better look on web or give him a call

Row

Thanks scooby girl no1,
Think i'll stick with power washing my own dpf,it should be then good for another 100k or so..:)

scooby girl no1

Row wrote: »

Thanks scooby girl no1,
Think i'll stick with power washing my own dpf,it should be then good for another 100k or so..:)

you welcome

crosshair1

Row wrote: »

Yes it can be replaced without diagnostic equipment but it may need the equipment to clear the dpf message.
What problems are you having....??
If you topup your additive tank it will need to be reset with planet
(peugeot diagnostic equipment)
Ron.

Row, are you saying you can use Planet to connect to mazda for regen/reset additive qty??
Have planet & lexia myself but always use Carman for the japs
just wondering as I dont have IDS for Ford/Mazda.

Row

crosshair1 wrote: »

Row, are you saying you can use Planet to connect to mazda for regen/reset additive qty??
Have planet & lexia myself but always use Carman for the japs
just wondering as I dont have IDS for Ford/Mazda.

I was referring to a 307 hdi on that reply.....I don't think planet/lexia will work
with ford/mazda as they use different ecu's..it maybe worth a try tho...:)

crosshair1

Ok didnt realise, was pretty sure it couldnt be done but
as its a lot cheaper than IDs would be great if it did.

TrevTbar

shamwari wrote: »

The DPF should have two small pipes coming from the body of it which connect to a differential pressure sensor. The hoses which connect the DPF to that sensor can get damaged and generate a false error code relating to DPF efficiency, or the sensor itself can sometimes go faulty. If your car is in the zone mileage wise then it probably is the DPF. Someone with an appropriate scanner which can read the live data should be able to see what pressures the sensor is reporting, and determine if the error is genuine (which it probably is). Some DPF's are available from spurious suppliers. I know some are for the DV6 which is fitted to the Ford Focus.

On my focus, 2 hoses which appear to be coming from the DPF back to the sensor have blown off, I have had a ENGINE SYSTEMS FAULT on my dash for the past while and have sent the car back to the garage to get topped up with the additive but the problem never seemed to be solved. My car is now with a ford dealer getting the pipes replaced and hopefully that clears the problem. However if the problem is with the filter can i get the it cleared as the last thing i want to do is pay out for a new DPF.

TrevTbar

Row wrote: »

If the dpf is regenerating every 5-600 miles that seems normal.

Most diagnostic equipment like launch x431..Dec superscan..snapon ..etc
should be able to check the condition of the filter....I use planet 2000
which is what Peugoet garages use...:D
As for cleaning the dpf it is possible and its a cheaper option..:)
when peugeot remove the old dpf it is sent off for cleaning and someone
else gets it as a replacment/reconditioned part...:rolleyes:

Usally remove the dpf...power hose it opposite to exhaust flow... blow out (dry)with airline and refit...maybe run the engine with the exhaust disconnected until the dpf dries out fully.....:)
I must remove my own and give it a power wash when i get time......:rolleyes:

On the 1.6 hdi the dpf is to the front of the engine and is easily acessed
for removal.
Also on these engines you have to tell the dpf ecu that your after fitting a new dpf....I did this on mine and it cleared all the faults.

below is a diagram of the 1.6 hdi (dv6) dpf which i guess is the same on yours...

if you want information on the removal of the dpf from the 1.6 hdi
P.M. me your email address and i can send you on some info.
Ron.

I have a 05 1.6 tdci ford focus, the 2 pipes which comes from the dpf to the sensors have blown off and are currently been replaced at a ford dealer, however if my dpf needs replacing i am running into big cost and is something i would rather not do. There is 96k on the car at the moment. I would like to try cleaning the DPF before i replace it and would appreciate if you could send me your information or any thoughts you would have on my problem.

Row

TrevTbar wrote: »

I have a 05 1.6 tdci ford focus, the 2 pipes which comes from the dpf to the sensors have blown off and are currently been replaced at a ford dealer, however if my dpf needs replacing i am running into big cost and is something i would rather not do. There is 96k on the car at the moment. I would like to try cleaning the DPF before i replace it and would appreciate if you could send me your information or any thoughts you would have on my problem.

Afaik the Focus uses a different dpf which can't be split like the peugeot/citroen dpf.
maybe they can still be cleaned but not sure how successful cleaning is on the focus dpf...
maybe ring around a few ford garages (up north maybe) and get a quote on a new dpf+additive toppup and see how it compairs to down here.
Best of luck with it...;)

Plug

Row wrote: »

Afaik the Focus uses a different dpf which can't be split like the peugeot/citroen dpf.
maybe they can still be cleaned but not sure how successful cleaning is on the focus dpf...
maybe ring around a few ford garages (up north maybe) and get a quote on a new dpf+additive toppup and see how it compairs to down here.
Best of luck with it...;)

I think its the one unit on the ford, the cat and the DPF together. The mechanic in work told me it injects fuel into it to clear it out, is this the additive your on about or does it use diesel fuel?

TrevTbar

Plug wrote: »

I think its the one unit on the ford, the cat and the DPF together. The mechanic in work told me it injects fuel into it to clear it out, is this the additive your on about or does it use diesel fuel?

I think the additive is added to the fuel and that must be what clears it out.

Row

Plug wrote: »

I think its the one unit on the ford, the cat and the DPF together. The mechanic in work told me it injects fuel into it to clear it out, is this the additive your on about or does it use diesel fuel?

The additive is injected into the fuel tank where the signal is taken from the fuel cap sensor which knows when you top up or add diesel.it also takes into account how much diesel is actually in the tank so the correct amount of additive is injected....The additive reduces the burning off temp of the sooth in the dpf from around 550deg c to around 450degs c so it regens faster and less heat is required to carry out a regen.

TrevTbar

Row wrote: »

The additive is injected into the fuel tank where the signal is taken from the fuel cap sensor which knows when you top up or add diesel.it also takes into account how much diesel is actually in the tank so the correct amount of additive is injected....The additive reduces the burning off temp of the sooth in the dpf from around 550deg c to around 450degs c so it regens faster and less heat is required to carry out a regen.

I have bought the additive before but not sure if it was put in correctly, is it a big job to refill the additive or how is that done?

Row

TrevTbar wrote: »

I have bought the additive before but not sure if it was put in correctly, is it a big job to refill the additive or how is that done?

when you buy the additive it comes in a kit which makes it pretty straight forward to topup...but you will need some good diagnostic equipment to reset the system...otherwise it will not know it was topped up.
just be carful as this additive can be nasty stuff.

TrevTbar

Row wrote: »

when you buy the additive it comes in a kit which makes it pretty straight forward to topup...but you will need some good diagnostic equipment to reset the system...otherwise it will not know it was topped up.
just be carful as this additive can be nasty stuff.

Yes i got the kit with the additive however the garage i sent it to only had a handheld diagnostic kit so maybe they were unable to reset the system properly. i wil get the ford garage to top up/reset the system.

shedweller

While looking for something else, i found a place selling the DPF fluid:http://www.stationautoservices.co.uk/jlm/store/products-delivery-service/
I'm not connected with them but just thought i'd share the find.

edit: I dont think they deliver to Ireland. aaarrggghhhh! why not???

TrevTbar

Anyone know the best place to find a Catylic Convertor/Dpf for a 05 1.6L ford Focus. The pipes going for the dpf to the sensor blew off because of the pressure. The Convertor/dpf seems to be completely blocked and needs changing. Got a quote from ford garage for 1140euro!!! Any ideas of cheaper options???

shedweller

I believe the usual way is to remove (lol, there's a simplification!) the filter then use a pressure washer through it to clean it out. A shot of compressed air to remove water is done afterwards although leaving it on a radiator overnight should do the trick.
Here's a BMW owner doing the job:http://forums.5series.net/topic/94725-diy-maintenance-for-the-dpf/
He's using a leaf blower to dry it out after cleaning. Class!

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

shedweller

shedweller wrote: »

While looking for something else, i found a place selling the DPF fluid:http://www.stationautoservices.co.uk/jlm/store/products-delivery-service/
I'm not connected with them but just thought i'd share the find.

edit: I dont think they deliver to Ireland. aaarrggghhhh! why not???

Got an email from them and they said they do deliver to Ireland although not by airmail.

Row

I'd be getting the pressure washer out before i'd pay 1140euro...:eek:
Thats crazy money..:mad:..Peugeot Charge around €750-800 for replacing the dpf and topping up the additive on a 1.6 hdi..(Same engine)

I know a few people who have powerwashed dpf's on the 1.6 hdi/2.0 hdi's with no problems since....Just ensure to dry it well before you get it refitted.

You could also give John a shout..he maybe able to wipe out the dpf software
from the ecu and remove your old dpf....:)
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/1801465
Best of luck with it...;)

boardz

Hi I have an 07 focus TDC 1.6 with 76k miles on the clock...engine failure light coming and going last 6 weeks or so got a read out from the local 'Kwik fit' type garage which gave 5 codes. Three of these gave an indication of the faults (P0341- Camshaft position sensor circuit problem, P1245-Alternator lead input failed/low, P0234-Engine Overboost condition. But the other 2 codes (P2585-{25,10,25,85} and P2458-{25,10,24,58} had nothing. Searching them down indicates a fuel additive issue and a DPF issue. After spending some time researching I've made the decision to go to a specialist garage in the morning to have the DPF removed with ECU remap (€550) but I was wondering would anybody have any idea if all the fault codes could be caused by a DPF problem?
A big ask I know but nothing ventured.... Cheers

Plug

The Focus of that year used an additive, so maybe its just low.
P2585 definition is "Fuel Additive Control Module Warning Lamp Request".

pred racer

I dunno if this is helpful, but this seems to be a fairly cheap improvement for the alfa dpf (which doesnt use an additive)

http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-159-brera-and-946-spider/329540-for-all-of-you-still-with-a-dpf.html

boardz

Thanks for the quick response guys....it does indeed use the additive which service manual says should be replaced @35k so the stuff on your link pred looks like it would definitly extend this... but it also says DPF and additive to be replaced at 75 - 80k so with the jigs and the reels I think I'll go ahead with the removal.....which does then negate the need for the additive I presume/hope?

Plug

boardz wrote: »

Thanks for the quick response guys....it does indeed use the additive which service manual says should be replaced @35k so the stuff on your link pred looks like it would definitly extend this... but it also says DPF and additive to be replaced at 75 - 80k so with the jigs and the reels I think I'll go ahead with the removal.....which does then negate the need for the additive I presume/hope?

Seen similar faults on a Focus and I replaced the fluid and all was ok.

boardz

Well typical the car won't start this morning! Maybe because it was so cold last night but insurance breakdown assist on the way so gonna have to get it towed to Ford if can't get it going = big bucks! Could a DPF issue prevent it from starting? It wasn't driving too badly....

Plug

It wouldn't cause it not to start unless it was nearly completely blocked up. Was the engine turning over? You say there was a camshaft sensor fault.

boardz

Just got in....yep there was a camshaft sensor fault showing ....the engine was turning over fine...insurance breakdown assist mechanic came out (within 30 mins) and plugged his laptop in but said it was not showing any fault (even thought the fault light was illuminated on the dash) so he sent a tow truck to bring me to Ford...my road is slightly inclined the tow truck driver got into my car and rolled ever so slowly out of sight down the road....90 seconds later he drives the car back up! He reckoned it was a key/ignition communication issue so I drove to Ford...they ran a test (€82) and confirmed that it's looking for the fuel additive and quoted €402 to have it replenished. I asked could the DPF need to be replaced soon and he said they never have to be replaced? Said this additive issue could cause the car to fail to start.
While he was doing the bill I mentioned I heard that some people were having the DPF removed ...he gave a wry smile and shook his head...I pushed and he said probably not a good idea in the long run...yeah for Ford maybe! Had to reschule removal for next week. Has anybody else had the DPF removed?

boardz

Just to update and request help! I got the DPF removed by Spor tchip at 350 which is 200 less than Souhans for the same job. However while the engine faults have cleared the car is still not running right. Chugging and failed to start twice in the last week. Bringing it back to spchip on Thursday he will have a Ford tester unit but I saw an earlier post here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=75410440 with similar issues and Plug mentioned the air valves......If I mention this to the mechanic should he know how to check? (Also saw the post where Plug saved a fellow user over 1000 euro! Kudos!)

Row

boardz wrote: »

yep there was a camshaft sensor fault showing ....the engine was turning over fine.

Sounds like this could be your problem if it was not sorted out.

Poor running can also be caused by...
1)blocking/faulty egr valves.
2)sticking air intake flaps.
3)failing injector(s)

boardz

Thanks Row.... the more pointers I can give to the mechanic the better....and also maybe to reduce any risk of 'creative diagnostics' if I give the impression that I have some knowledge

boardz

The story (saga!) so far......still having trouble starting and when driving it seems to 'chug' in 4th and 5th gear very easily. Spchip reckons that there is a leak in the fuel line but he's not comfortable to replace it as no experience...it is marginally better if I have a full tank but still not right......any ideas or recommendations where I could bring the car? Besides the expense of bringing it to Ford not sure how they will react to the DPF removal and ECU remap?

volvoman480

Alright lads, might jump in with my own dpf problem if no one minds. I have an 07 Kia Carens 2.0CRDi. 125k on the clock. The engine management light came on last week, car is still under warranty so back to the dealer. They had the car for about an hour, cleared the faults and regenerated the filter. The light came back on a few days later, back to the dealer, cleared the fault and was told this wasn't unusual and give the car a good hard spin. The f***ing light came back on again within an hour. Since the dealer I bought the car from no longer sells Kia, I've been told to take it to another garage for repair.

My question is, does any of this sound reasonable or normal? Small diesels aren't really my thing and I know nothing of these dpf thingys. Must ring the garage tomorrow and would just like to know roughly where I stand.

bazz26

Might be worth giving it a good long run where the engine is constantly reving over 2000 rpm to try and unblock the DPF? Short journey's kill diesels with DPFs fitted.

volvoman480

Yeah, I tried that on a good motorway run, kept the revs up good and high from Thurles back to Cork but no joy. Thanks for the advice though.

bazz26

It is possible that the DPF is totally knackered. I think the only thing to do might be to have the fault codes diagnosed by a Kia garage. It seems to me all the other garage is doing is clearing the faults rather than fixing the issue that is causing them. This is probably down to the fact that they no longer have the Kia franchise and will not do work as they will no longer be re-emborsed by Kia.

volvoman480

True enough, a friend of mine got the dpf in her car (identical to mine) replaced under warranty last year so fingers crossed. It's probably hideously expensive so I'll be hoping for the best.

bazz26

I had to replace the DPF in my old Volvo S40 at a cost of close to €1k. I was under the impression a DPF was not covered by warranty, if Kia are replacing them then I'd let them diagnose and fix/replace it.