cigarette prices to come down??

patrickc

new Eu ruling that Ireland cannot set prices for cigarettes any more

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1022/tobacco.html


The European Court of Justice has declared that Ireland cannot set minimum prices for tobacco products since it distorts competition and benefits manufacturers.
The declaration came in the form of an opinion by the court's Advocate General.
In 80% of cases the opinion is in line with the final judgement.


In December 2006 the European Commission wrote to the Irish Government saying that the policy of setting minimum retail prices for cigarettes was contrary to EU law since it limited the freedom of producers and manufacturers to determine their selling prices.
When Ireland failed to legislate for the relevant EU directive the EC took Ireland to the European Court of Justice in May 2008.
At the time the EC said the best way to deal with the public health concerns over tobacco was to use tax and excise duties, not set minimum prices, since such prices were of 'sole benefit to manufacturers by protecting their profit margins.'
In this opinion, the court held that setting minimum prices for public health reasons was legitimate but that using taxation and excise duties were the best ways of meeting public health objectives, since they did not interfere with the principle of the free formation of prices.
The Advocate General acknowledged that smoking is the biggest cause of preventable death in the EU.
During hearings Ireland argued that manufacturers could counteract taxes on cigarettes by reducing their profit margin.
However, the Advocate General held that this in turn could be countered by steeper tax increases so that manufacturers would not be able to avoid increasing the price of a packet of cigarettes

Long Onion

It's not an ECJ ruling - it's a declaration by the advocate general - not binding (but usually upheld in 80% of cases).

I presume the gov will fight it all the way, but it looks likely that they will lose and then the will probably just increase the duty to keep the prices high - no major change will come I expect.

amacachi

I had no idea there were minimum prices set. Tobacco companies must've been lining FF's pockets for a while.

The excise will just rise anyway to keep the prices high.

wudangclan

they will presumably increase the duty on lighters on matches,so a box of matches will cost a fiver to make up for the difference.

Sea Sharp

haha, No need to quit now. :pac:

Long Onion

wudangclan wrote: »

they will presumably increase the duty on lighters on matches,so a box of matches will cost a fiver to make up for the difference.

Apparently Fachtna Murphy is currently pushing for an outright ban on Mirrors, straws and paper money also:)

happyfriday

Oh excellent more money for wine!! Score!!!

dr.bollocko

Man do I loves me cancer sticks.

prendy

amacachi wrote: »

I had no idea there were minimum prices set. Tobacco companies must've been lining FF's pockets for a while.

The excise will just rise anyway to keep the prices high.

or the country's pockets :rolleyes:

admiralofthefleet

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Man do I loves me cancer sticks.

likewise, bring on the snouts

orourkeda

I want to be a cancer surgeon

ejmaztec

They'll just do the same as they did with the import duty on cars, and change the name to Cigarette Registration Tax. President Blair won't tolerate this sh1t!:eek:

Sheeps

Gonna take up smoking again.

artanevilla

F uck off EU we'll do what we like.

DarkJager

artanevilla wrote: »

F uck off EU we'll do what we like.

If the government "doing what they like" means a 200% markup on normal EU prices, then they can **** right off.

Turd Ferguson

Why don't the government just fuck off and leave us enjoy our smoking?

seamus

All they have to do is slap a shedload more tax on them to keep the prices high. If the minimum price is €8, with €4 being in taxes, then all they have to do is increase the tax on cigarettes to €7. The tobacco companies won't sell their products at a loss - they have nothing else to sell you.

The EU in fact recommend that governments do this seeing as they can't set a minimum price. Inhale that, smokers.

Naos

Non smoker here and as much as I liked the thoughts of increasing the price on cigs to compensate for the medicinal side of things (please don't go into this) and other reasons such as to discourage kids from starting - it has drove people to purchase in mass when abroad and even go up north.

I'd like to know what the expenditure figures from 2008 are in Ireland in comparison to whatever year it was when the prices starting inflating rapidly.

Basically I'm wondering if the Govt would bring in more money by decreasing the price of cigarettes as opposed to increasing it as more people would purchase in the south.

DarkJager

The fact is the more you drive up the price of cigarettes, the bigger the black market will get until the revenue gained from tobacco sales decreases enormously. People can whinge about the price being too low compared to the health problems associated with it, but its an adult choice, and one which provides the state with a lot of money each year whether they like it or not.

Gran Hermano

Naos wrote: »

Non smoker here and as much as I liked the thoughts of increasing the price on cigs to compensate for the medicinal side of things (please don't go into this) and other reasons such as to discourage kids from starting - it has drove people to purchase in mass when abroad and even go up north.

I'd like to know what the expenditure figures from 2008 are in Ireland in comparison to whatever year it was when the prices starting inflating rapidly.

Basically I'm wondering if the Govt would bring in more money by decreasing the price of cigarettes as opposed to increasing it as more people would purchase in the south.

100% correct, I smoke a packet a day and haven't bought a packet in Ireland since April. If the price here was similar to the EU average the Irish Government would have received a lot more tax from me

Euro_Kraut

Turd Ferguson wrote: »

Why don't the government just fuck off and leave us enjoy our smoking?

Because the rest of us have to pay for the habits of ye selfish feckers.

DarkJager

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

Because the rest of us have to pay for the habits of ye selfish feckers.

And what about those of us who have to pay for treatment for the ****ing clowns who go out and get pissed and injured on the weekends? People in this country are such ****ing hypocrites its not even funny.

Turd Ferguson

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

Because the rest of us have to pay for the habits of ye selfish feckers.

Explain exactly how you pay?

_blank_

Anyone who is still paying €8.50+ for a pack of smokes is an imbecile, in my opinion.

I get my smokes, 200 for ~€40.

DarkJager

Turd Ferguson wrote: »

Explain exactly how you pay?

Its the commoners arguement when it comes to cigarettes. You'd swear they were personally walking into the hospital and handing out cash.

Dankoozy

artanevilla wrote: »

F uck off EU we'll do what we like.

not anymore

Lisbon Treaty

---

>EU superstate

big b

Des wrote: »

Anyone who is still paying €8.50+ for a pack of smokes is an imbecile, in my opinion.

I get my smokes, 200 for ~€40.

Not knowing a local dodgy dealer = imbecile

cheers for that, Des! :cool:

_blank_

big b wrote: »

Not knowing a local dodgy dealer = imbecile

cheers for that, Des! :cool:

Are you telling me that you yourself, or someone you know, doesn't know an Eastern European person?

I don't believe that.

DarkJager

Des wrote: »

Are you telling me that you yourself, or someone you know, doesn't know an Eastern European person?

I don't believe that.

I can honestly say I don't know any Eastern Europeans!

Futurism

Dankoozy wrote: »

not anymore

Lisbon Treaty

---

>EU superstate

And there we have it. The first Lisbon-did-it post.

Mossy Monk

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

Because the rest of us have to pay for the habits of ye selfish feckers.

I am not a smoker but that is a load of nonsense. Should I complain about my taxes being spent on schools? Afterall I don't use them.

ShooterSF

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

Because the rest of us have to pay for the habits of ye selfish feckers.

I don't smoke but hasn't this been debunked already. A smoker costs the state less as they live a shorter life and so do not contract multitudes of non-fatal diseases in old age and do not receive state benefits for as long (e.g pension/medical card etc.). It seems to me this is just an easy stick to beat people who make choices you disagree with.

Edit: Link http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22995659/

big b

Des wrote: »

Are you telling me that you yourself, or someone you know, doesn't know an Eastern European person?

I don't believe that.

Life in the sticks, Des. Life in the sticks.

Lucky I can stock up when I go abroad myself.

amacachi

prendy wrote: »

or the country's pockets :rolleyes:

Did you get my point at all? The minimum price should be only influenced by how much tax is on the box, not by the government ensuring an extra amount per box always goes to the tobacco companies/retailers etc.

meboloxitis

Ah bollox, what am I gonna do now with a suitcase full of polish fags

schween

This won't make the slightest difference.

Why would tobacco companies lower their prices? If they lower prices the govt will jump up excise on them.
So they will just be giving some of their profits to the govt coffers. They've been making a nice amount of money for years, I doubt they'll change now.

wudangclan

meboloxitis wrote: »

Ah bollox, what am I gonna do now with a suitcase full of polish fags

bring 'em into the George (in town).
they'll know what to do with them in there.

Degsy

I dont smoke but i grow me own tobacco plants..they do very well in an average garden and self-seed year after year.

Run_to_da_hills

Give it a year or so and we will be forbidden to discuss the subject of tobacco on Boards or similar social sites because it could influence minors to take up the habit. :rolleyes:

Venom

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

Because the rest of us have to pay for the habits of ye selfish feckers.

Pop into any A&E on a Friday and Saturday night and take a look at the amount of cigarette related injuries compared to alcohol related ones if your so worried about "the rest of us" having to pay for other peoples medical expenses :rolleyes:

Whosbetter?

This doesn't affect me at all.

Used to pay 8.50 for a pack.

Not any more, I don't!

Polish lad at work sellin' 'em at 35notes for 200.

Now I smoke 6 packs a week, so that's a saving of 30 quid a week.

Everyone I know does the same thing.

How can the Govt be making any money on fags at this stage when shops are selling fcuck all of them anyway?

ninjasurfer1

Venom wrote: »

Pop into any A&E on a Friday and Saturday night and take a look at the amount of cigarette related injuries compared to alcohol related ones if your so worried about "the rest of us" having to pay for other peoples medical expenses :rolleyes:

Difference is that the vast majority of drunks dont plan in advance to go out to do themselves and others harm that the rest of us pay for!!

bluto63

I can't see the price falling tbh. In fact I think this will be used as a chance to drive up the price. A bucketload of tax will be thrown on top by the government and the cigarette companies who have been making this huge profit for so long won't wanna lose any money so they'll drive up the price as well

amacachi

Whosbetter? wrote: »

This doesn't affect me at all.

Used to pay 8.50 for a pack.

Not any more, I don't!

Polish lad at work sellin' 'em at 35notes for 200.

Now I smoke 6 packs a week, so that's a saving of 30 quid a week.

Everyone I know does the same thing.

How can the Govt be making any money on fags at this stage when shops are selling fcuck all of them anyway?

Not to mention that they're around 6 quid or less for 20 just across the border. With the shopping season coming up I'm expecting a lot of stocking up from there.

Sofiztikated

ninjasurfer1 wrote: »

Difference is that the vast majority of drunks dont plan in advance to go out to do themselves and others harm that the rest of us pay for!!

Yeah, don't think the smokers are thinking to themselves, just another 10 years on these fags, and i'll have cancer, and take money from the Government.

dr.bollocko

Somewhere right now there is a non-smoking person waiting to board a plane and they didn't buy 200 duty free cigs when they had the opportunity to.
Whoever that person is I hate them.

ShooterSF

ShooterSF wrote: »

I don't smoke but hasn't this been debunked already. A smoker costs the state less as they live a shorter life and so do not contract multitudes of non-fatal diseases in old age and do not receive state benefits for as long (e.g pension/medical card etc.). It seems to me this is just an easy stick to beat people who make choices you disagree with.

Edit: Link http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22995659/

ninjasurfer1 wrote: »

Difference is that the vast majority of drunks dont plan in advance to go out to do themselves and others harm that the rest of us pay for!!

Care to read the article I linked to and see if you still feel the same?

The Pontiac

DarkJager wrote: »

I can honestly say I don't know any Eastern Europeans!

The first rule of smoking in this country is to get friendly with a few Eastern Europeans. Preferably members of the opposite sex.

Whosbetter? wrote: »

This doesn't affect me at all.

Used to pay 8.50 for a pack.

Not any more, I don't!

Polish lad at work sellin' 'em at 35notes for 200.

Now I smoke 6 packs a week, so that's a saving of 30 quid a week.

Everyone I know does the same thing.

How can the Govt be making any money on fags at this stage when shops are selling fcuck all of them anyway?

I haven't bought a box of Irish fags in years. And remember, the more you smoke, the more you save. Makes sense..

niallk

It's Celtic Tiger taxing and it has to end. They wanted us to approve Lisbon and embrace Europe so why can't we have European prices.

amacachi

niallk wrote: »

It's Celtic Tiger taxing and it has to end. They wanted us to approve Lisbon and embrace Europe so why can't we have European prices.

I'm sure the government would like that, but we also need European levels of income for that, which people don't seem willing accept.

Supercell

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Somewhere right now there is a non-smoking person waiting to board a plane and they didn't buy 200 duty free cigs when they had the opportunity to.
Whoever that person is I hate them.

Why? Boggles?!!
I fly all over the place and never avail of this wonderful opportunity.
Now i think of it there must be 1000's of cancer sticks i should have availed of by now sitting on a shelf unloved.