cigarette prices to come down??

patrickc

new Eu ruling that Ireland cannot set prices for cigarettes any more

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1022/tobacco.html


The European Court of Justice has declared that Ireland cannot set minimum prices for tobacco products since it distorts competition and benefits manufacturers.
The declaration came in the form of an opinion by the court's Advocate General.
In 80% of cases the opinion is in line with the final judgement.


In December 2006 the European Commission wrote to the Irish Government saying that the policy of setting minimum retail prices for cigarettes was contrary to EU law since it limited the freedom of producers and manufacturers to determine their selling prices.
When Ireland failed to legislate for the relevant EU directive the EC took Ireland to the European Court of Justice in May 2008.
At the time the EC said the best way to deal with the public health concerns over tobacco was to use tax and excise duties, not set minimum prices, since such prices were of 'sole benefit to manufacturers by protecting their profit margins.'
In this opinion, the court held that setting minimum prices for public health reasons was legitimate but that using taxation and excise duties were the best ways of meeting public health objectives, since they did not interfere with the principle of the free formation of prices.
The Advocate General acknowledged that smoking is the biggest cause of preventable death in the EU.
During hearings Ireland argued that manufacturers could counteract taxes on cigarettes by reducing their profit margin.
However, the Advocate General held that this in turn could be countered by steeper tax increases so that manufacturers would not be able to avoid increasing the price of a packet of cigarettes

Long Onion

It's not an ECJ ruling - it's a declaration by the advocate general - not binding (but usually upheld in 80% of cases).

I presume the gov will fight it all the way, but it looks likely that they will lose and then the will probably just increase the duty to keep the prices high - no major change will come I expect.

amacachi

I had no idea there were minimum prices set. Tobacco companies must've been lining FF's pockets for a while.

The excise will just rise anyway to keep the prices high.

wudangclan

they will presumably increase the duty on lighters on matches,so a box of matches will cost a fiver to make up for the difference.

Sea Sharp

haha, No need to quit now. :pac:

Long Onion

wudangclan wrote: »

they will presumably increase the duty on lighters on matches,so a box of matches will cost a fiver to make up for the difference.

Apparently Fachtna Murphy is currently pushing for an outright ban on Mirrors, straws and paper money also:)

happyfriday

Oh excellent more money for wine!! Score!!!

dr.bollocko

Man do I loves me cancer sticks.

prendy

amacachi wrote: »

I had no idea there were minimum prices set. Tobacco companies must've been lining FF's pockets for a while.

The excise will just rise anyway to keep the prices high.

or the country's pockets :rolleyes:

admiralofthefleet

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Man do I loves me cancer sticks.

likewise, bring on the snouts

orourkeda

I want to be a cancer surgeon

ejmaztec

They'll just do the same as they did with the import duty on cars, and change the name to Cigarette Registration Tax. President Blair won't tolerate this sh1t!:eek:

Sheeps

Gonna take up smoking again.

artanevilla

F uck off EU we'll do what we like.

DarkJager

artanevilla wrote: »

F uck off EU we'll do what we like.

If the government "doing what they like" means a 200% markup on normal EU prices, then they can **** right off.

Turd Ferguson

Why don't the government just fuck off and leave us enjoy our smoking?

seamus

All they have to do is slap a shedload more tax on them to keep the prices high. If the minimum price is €8, with €4 being in taxes, then all they have to do is increase the tax on cigarettes to €7. The tobacco companies won't sell their products at a loss - they have nothing else to sell you.

The EU in fact recommend that governments do this seeing as they can't set a minimum price. Inhale that, smokers.

Naos

Non smoker here and as much as I liked the thoughts of increasing the price on cigs to compensate for the medicinal side of things (please don't go into this) and other reasons such as to discourage kids from starting - it has drove people to purchase in mass when abroad and even go up north.

I'd like to know what the expenditure figures from 2008 are in Ireland in comparison to whatever year it was when the prices starting inflating rapidly.

Basically I'm wondering if the Govt would bring in more money by decreasing the price of cigarettes as opposed to increasing it as more people would purchase in the south.

DarkJager

The fact is the more you drive up the price of cigarettes, the bigger the black market will get until the revenue gained from tobacco sales decreases enormously. People can whinge about the price being too low compared to the health problems associated with it, but its an adult choice, and one which provides the state with a lot of money each year whether they like it or not.

Gran Hermano

Naos wrote: »

Non smoker here and as much as I liked the thoughts of increasing the price on cigs to compensate for the medicinal side of things (please don't go into this) and other reasons such as to discourage kids from starting - it has drove people to purchase in mass when abroad and even go up north.

I'd like to know what the expenditure figures from 2008 are in Ireland in comparison to whatever year it was when the prices starting inflating rapidly.

Basically I'm wondering if the Govt would bring in more money by decreasing the price of cigarettes as opposed to increasing it as more people would purchase in the south.

100% correct, I smoke a packet a day and haven't bought a packet in Ireland since April. If the price here was similar to the EU average the Irish Government would have received a lot more tax from me

Euro_Kraut

Turd Ferguson wrote: »

Why don't the government just fuck off and leave us enjoy our smoking?

Because the rest of us have to pay for the habits of ye selfish feckers.

DarkJager

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

Because the rest of us have to pay for the habits of ye selfish feckers.

And what about those of us who have to pay for treatment for the ****ing clowns who go out and get pissed and injured on the weekends? People in this country are such ****ing hypocrites its not even funny.

Turd Ferguson

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

Because the rest of us have to pay for the habits of ye selfish feckers.

Explain exactly how you pay?

_blank_

Anyone who is still paying €8.50+ for a pack of smokes is an imbecile, in my opinion.

I get my smokes, 200 for ~€40.

DarkJager

Turd Ferguson wrote: »

Explain exactly how you pay?

Its the commoners arguement when it comes to cigarettes. You'd swear they were personally walking into the hospital and handing out cash.

Dankoozy

artanevilla wrote: »

F uck off EU we'll do what we like.

not anymore

Lisbon Treaty

---

>EU superstate

big b

Des wrote: »

Anyone who is still paying €8.50+ for a pack of smokes is an imbecile, in my opinion.

I get my smokes, 200 for ~€40.

Not knowing a local dodgy dealer = imbecile

cheers for that, Des! :cool:

_blank_

big b wrote: »

Not knowing a local dodgy dealer = imbecile

cheers for that, Des! :cool:

Are you telling me that you yourself, or someone you know, doesn't know an Eastern European person?

I don't believe that.

DarkJager

Des wrote: »

Are you telling me that you yourself, or someone you know, doesn't know an Eastern European person?

I don't believe that.

I can honestly say I don't know any Eastern Europeans!

Futurism

Dankoozy wrote: »

not anymore

Lisbon Treaty

---

>EU superstate

And there we have it. The first Lisbon-did-it post.

Mossy Monk

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

Because the rest of us have to pay for the habits of ye selfish feckers.

I am not a smoker but that is a load of nonsense. Should I complain about my taxes being spent on schools? Afterall I don't use them.