Protest against trade union action

Sandwich

Would you support/participate in a march/demonstration against the proposed industrial action being planned by trade unions against pay cuts?

(wanted to post a poll but can remember how to)

cyclopath2001

Sandwich wrote: »

Would you support/participate in a march/demonstration against the proposed industrial action being planned by trade unions against pay cuts?

Will the private sector employers give the staff time off and will they march behind banners identifying which companies they work for?

BroomBurner

Irish people don't protest.

In fact, we should admire the unions for galvanising protests.

Why would you want to stage a protest against the union one? Just let them on with their job. They have a mandate to protect their members, including their members' wages.

If you worked for a union, that's what you would be doing.

Btw, I don't work for a union.

Taxipete29

Sandwich wrote: »

Would you support/participate in a march/demonstration against the proposed industrial action being planned by trade unions against pay cuts?

(wanted to post a poll but can remember how to)

Workers vs Workers. Just what the government and corporations want. If the little guys are fighting each other, they wont be fighting us. Game over.
I do hope for the sake of this country that you have no position of power, influence or authority otherwise I do despair for our future.

Koloman

Sandwich wrote: »

Would you support/participate in a march/demonstration against the proposed industrial action being planned by trade unions against pay cuts?

(wanted to post a poll but can remember how to)

Well something needs to be done to stop the militant trade unions from destroying the country (yes I know the banks/FF have already ruined the country but these strikes will destroy it completely!). As has been said the private sector workers would not get the time of for it so that would seem to put an end to it.

Tim Robbins

Sandwich wrote: »

Would you support/participate in a march/demonstration against the proposed industrial action being planned by trade unions against pay cuts?

(wanted to post a poll but can remember how to)

Brilliant idea.

mise_me_fein

Fcuk the trade unions........I've seen enough on how much they earn compared to other countries in Europe.

There has to be cuts, that's a fact. We're losing jobs, also a fact.

Most people would kill for a job in the public sector doing the "work" they do.

My uncle is a public sector worker and does SFA.

I know some public sector workers work hard, I'm sure lots do, but it's a sweet number for most.

I hope the government deals with this in the correct way and if they do I'll vote for them again.

mise_me_fein

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Workers vs Workers. Just what the government and corporations want. If the little guys are fighting each other, they wont be fighting us. Game over.
I do hope for the sake of this country that you have no position of power, influence or authority otherwise I do despair for our future.

I'm with the government and against the unions....not worker Vs Worker

Private Sector and Government Vs Unions

gerry28

mise_me_fein wrote: »

I'm with the government and against the unions....not worker Vs Worker

Private Sector and Government Vs Unions

So the government and the private sector innocent victims and the unions the big bad wolf?

You've been well hoodwinked by cowan and co!!!

ParkRunner

Im willing to bet my cushy civil service pension that this will come to nothing.

mikemac

mise_me_fein wrote: »

I'm with the government and against the unions....not worker Vs Worker

Private Sector and Government Vs Unions

There are very powerful unions in some private companies too you know.
Causing much the same issues you'll see in any public service office or department

It isn't just a public service issue

Absurdum

mise_me_fein wrote: »

Most people would kill for a job in the public sector

or they could visit www.publicjobs.ie and spare a life

Koloman

Ireland is the equivalent of a ship that has been holed below the waterline with the private sector workers below deck frantically trying to plug the hole and using buckets to remove the water, meanwhile up on deck the public sector workers are still partying on and going about their business as if nothing has happened!

By striking they are punching more holes into the ship and we will sink faster, drowning us all in the process with only the faint hope of the IMF to throw us some life jackets!

ParkRunner

Koloman wrote: »

Ireland is the equivalent of a ship that has been holed below the waterline with the private sector workers below deck frantically trying to plug the hole and using buckets to remove the water, meanwhile up on deck the public sector workers are still partying on and going about their business as if nothing has happened!

By striking they are punching more holes into the ship and we will sink faster, drowning us all in the process with only the faint hope of the IMF to throw us some life jackets!

Or another way of looking at it is that 20% of those plugging the holes have been made redundant and cannot find anything else to do on the ship, 60% are spending their time whining at those apparently on the upper deck living the high life and the other 20% are working hard keeping us all alive, while the ship is being steered aimlessly by Napoleon and his cronies who have had first class tickets for the whole journey.

SEPT 23 1989

so it will be a non unionised private sector/unemployed protest against the trade union action

yeah i will have some of that and we would have the numbers

cyclopath2001

Koloman wrote: »

Ireland is the equivalent of a ship that has been holed below the waterline with the private sector workers below deck frantically trying to plug the hole and using buckets to remove the water, meanwhile up on deck the public sector workers are still partying on and going about their business as if nothing has happened!

You didn't mention the bankers, politicians and property developers who holed the ship...presumably they're already in the lifeboats?

Koloman wrote: »

the faint hope of the IMF to throw us some life jackets!

They come later to salvage and sell off the hull for scrap.

Taxipete29

mise_me_fein wrote: »

I'm with the government and against the unions....not worker Vs Worker

Private Sector and Government Vs Unions

Well sure if everyone is with the government why is everyone complaining about them. Sure there not that bad :rolleyes:

And your wrong because its more of this private vs public tripe we have been hearing for months. The big bad public sector who have destroyed this country led by their political masters in the unions. Gimme a break.

I dont agree with the protests because I believe we all have to share the burden and the public sector have to be included in that. But get it right they didnt cause this mess, they are not to solution to all the problems and they have been demonised by the government and the media. It seems to of worked on you. Sheep

doc_17

The people slagging off the public sector should bear in mind that public servants have already taken 2 pay cuts in the past year. If we get hit a third time while non-residents (purely for tax purposes) are strolling round I'll go mental. Anyone calling for my pay to be cut again is naive if they believe I'll take it lying down.

irish_bob

Sandwich wrote: »

Would you support/participate in a march/demonstration against the proposed industrial action being planned by trade unions against pay cuts?

(wanted to post a poll but can remember how to)

yes yes and yes

irish_bob

doc_17 wrote: »

The people slagging off the public sector should bear in mind that public servants have already taken 2 pay cuts in the past year. If we get hit a third time while non-residents (purely for tax purposes) are strolling round I'll go mental. Anyone calling for my pay to be cut again is naive if they believe I'll take it lying down.

that every ps worker has taken a pay cut is merley a statistic , you could have taken several pay cuts and still be much better paid than those in the private sector , everything is relative

Rob67

How original, another anti public sector thread.

Taxipete29

irish_bob wrote: »

that every ps worker has taken a pay cut is merley a statistic , you could have taken several pay cuts and still be much better paid than those in the private sector , everything is relative

Why should people take pay cuts lying down when the banks who caused part of this mess are giving wage increases to employes despite being propped up by the state.

Mal-Adjusted

Koloman wrote: »

Ireland is the equivalent of a ship that has been holed below the waterline with the private sector workers below deck frantically trying to plug the hole and using buckets to remove the water, meanwhile up on deck the public sector workers are still partying on and going about their business as if nothing has happened!

*in a soft soothing voice* hi, Koloman, please put your story book down now. it's time to come back to reality. there, that wasn't so difficult, was it?:rolleyes:

Player_86

Yes, I would strongly protest against public sector strikes. The country simply cannot afford to maintain public sector wages and salaries. It is unfortunate, because I know the public service has suffered already, but so has the private sector.

In my opinion, public servants tend to bring out the bankers/developers argument when their pay is threatened. But these people have to remember that the private sector is not made up solely of bankers. What about the checkout worker in Dunnes Stores, the secretary in the local accountant's office, the sales assistant in Champion Sports? These people make up the vast, vast majority of the private sector. And they have suffered, are suffering, and will continue to suffer just as badly as any public sector worker.

Of course, the public sector has the right to strike. But it will receive absolutely no sympathy from the rest of the country.

ConsiderThis

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

You didn't mention the bankers, politicians and property developers who holed the ship...presumably they're already in the lifeboats?

They come later to salvage and sell off the hull for scrap.

There is little point, at this stage, at whinging about what has happened. What we really need is a revolution, although that's unlikely to happen because in Ireland what we do is whinge and wring our hands, but untimately go with the flow and do nothing.

My guess is that the politicians who have milked the system for hundreds of thousands that the rest of us have to fund will, as usual, be re-elected, probably on increased majorities.

How shameful is that as a reflection on the type of society in which we live?

Koloman

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

*in a soft soothing voice* hi, Koloman, please put your story book down now. it's time to come back to reality. there, that wasn't so difficult, was it?:rolleyes:

I assume you work for the public sector with a patronising comment like that!

Well it's time to come down from your lofty tower and see what us mere mortals in the private sector are having to cope with on a daily basis.

Wage cuts, redundancy, no overtime and (something you guys have never heard of) having to do more with less.

I am well in touch with reality as I see it in my colleagues faces every day! Are you? I think I know the answer to that already.

BroomBurner

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

so it will be a non unionised private sector/unemployed protest against the trade union action

yeah i will have some of that and we would have the numbers

As far as I could remember, the majority of Irish people still have jobs. Also, there are quite a lot of unionised people in the private sector aswell.

Mal-Adjusted

Koloman wrote: »

I assume you work for the public sector with a patronising comment like that!

Well it's time to come down from your lofty tower and see what us mere mortals in the private sector are having to cope with on a daily basis.

Wage cuts, redundancy, no overtime and (something you guys have never heard of) having to do more with less.

I am well in touch with reality as I see it in my colleagues faces every day! Are you? I think I know the answer to that already.

wow, your generic soundbite rant is quite amusing. what a bitter person you are Koloman, and no, i'm not in the Public sector.;)

Koloman

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

wow, your generic soundbite rant is quite amusing. what a bitter person you are Koloman, and no, i'm not in the Public sector.;)

Yep! Your right! This is one BIG LAUGH, isn't it! Let's all have a big chuckle at the 400,000 who are unemployed! It's a great bit of gas when you can't pay your mortgage!

Public sector workers don't have to worry about this as they are guaranteed a job and have very little chance of getting the sack.

They could at least appear to be a bit more humble in this economic crisis and to not threaten the country with ruin with a series of strikes.

mikemac

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Why should people take pay cuts lying down when the banks who caused part of this mess are giving wage increases to employes despite being propped up by the state.

Giving agreed wage increases to staff below management level.
Your average bank cashier is about as responsible for the current mess as a public service clerical officer.

BroomBurner

mikemac wrote: »

Giving agreed wage increases to staff below management level.
Your average bank cashier is about as responsible for the current mess as a public service clerical officer.

So you might see how a clerical officer may be a tad annoyed to have their pay docked and that money to be pumped in to the banks and given as a payrise to their equivelant?

Taxipete29

mikemac wrote: »

Giving agreed wage increases to staff below management level.
Your average bank cashier is about as responsible for the current mess as a public service clerical officer.

Look you cant have it both ways. If its cuts for the public sector then private companies being kept afloat by the state cant pay these increases. The actual % of people in the state responsible for the mess is tiny, but we all have to share the burden. How does paying increases to any staff member in a company that would fold in the morning if it wasnt for the Government help solve our problem?? Its a joke

mikemac

I don't get dragged into the whole public vs private debate

If you are a bank cashier and want your agreed pay rise, fight for it
And if you are a clerical officer and feel hard done by, again fight for it
And if you feel you don't have a valid case, get on with your job and bring it up another time in the future

But either way don't look across at other sectors and say I want this % as they got it, boo hoo

Mal-Adjusted

Koloman wrote: »

Yep! Your right! This is one BIG LAUGH, isn't it! Let's all have a big chuckle at the 400,000 who are unemployed! It's a great bit of gas when you can't pay your mortgage!

Public sector workers don't have to worry about this as they are guaranteed a job and have very little chance of getting the sack.

They could at least appear to be a bit more humble in this economic crisis and to not threaten the country with ruin with a series of strikes.

well, if you want to mock the unemployed, go right ahead. i'm not sure what exactly you plan to get from it, but, you know... whatever rocks your boat:D. if you want to be taken seriously, please state something other than innacurate analogies and the prevoisly mentioned generic soundbites

lmimmfn

i would protest against this no problem, but it would have to be at the weekend, unlike the public sector some of us actually have to work and cant take a random day off

Go ahead public sector, strike, in fact have loads of them it'll only make your situation worse.

ghost_ie

mise_me_fein wrote: »

Fcuk the trade unions........I've seen enough on how much they earn compared to other countries in Europe.

There has to be cuts, that's a fact. We're losing jobs, also a fact.

Most people would kill for a job in the public sector doing the "work" they do.

My uncle is a public sector worker and does SFA.

I know some public sector workers work hard, I'm sure lots do, but it's a sweet number for most.

I hope the government deals with this in the correct way and if they do I'll vote for them again.

Any public sector worker I know - nurses, fire brigade personnel, health care assistants, gardai - work extremely hard.

thebman

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

You didn't mention the bankers, politicians and property developers who holed the ship...presumably they're already in the lifeboats?

They are all irrelevant really as the public sector wage bill is too high regardless of any other factors when you look at the government budget.

Even if you ignore NAMA and the bail out of banks etc... the budget would be nowhere near balanced and massive cuts would still be needed.

mise_me_fein

Are there any public sector workers on a 3 day week?

Are there any public sector workers that have been sacked in the last year?

Are there any public sector workers really earning more due to the deflation of prices(even if you don't take a paycut, you're wage is worth more this year than last)?

Are there any public sector workers worrying about the future, maybe the massive pension won't be so massive when you retire well ahead of any private sector worker.

It's easy to say nurses, gardai, firemen all work had. I'm sure most do. Have we proof of this. I mean, just say FOR EXAMPLE, they work bad...will they get sacked........ARE THERE ANY BAD TEACHERS IN THE SCHOOLS FOR YEARS UPON END......HMMMM....STILL THEY ONLY HAVE THE STUDENT AROUND 8 MONTHS OF THE YEAR, CANT TEACH THE OTHER 3 OR 4 AS THEY DONT WORK.


Come on, public sector wages in Ireland are higher than nearly all of the other EU states....

This needs a reality check.

What do the self employed get if they go bust in our society?...Sweet Fcuk all.......yes, these are the guys that created a lot of the jobs for others that pays for the taxes that pays for Public Sector Pensions.
All risk and great rewards but no safety net......wonder when they'll start striking...

From what I've read here, I doubt the PS will get much support on this from the rest of the country.

cyclopath2001

mise_me_fein wrote: »

Are there any public sector workers on a 3 day week?

Yes.

mise_me_fein wrote: »

Are there any public sector workers that have been sacked in the last year?

Yes.

mise_me_fein wrote: »

Are there any public sector workers worrying about the future, maybe the massive pension won't be so massive when you retire well ahead of any private sector worker.

Yes, the national pension fund has been raided to bail out the banks & the government has cut their pay.

mise_me_fein wrote: »

What do the self employed get if they go bust in our society?

NAMA

Darragh29

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Workers vs Workers. Just what the government and corporations want. If the little guys are fighting each other, they wont be fighting us. Game over.
I do hope for the sake of this country that you have no position of power, influence or authority otherwise I do despair for our future.

Exactly, once we are all pitched against each other, then we'll never take up the cudgel to the real cause of all our woes which is an utterly incompetent government.

As for the OP, you should be out campaiging for compulsory union recognition in your private sector workplace. Who is representing you, the majority worker, in the partnership process??? NOBODY!!!

The reason we have such a gap between terms & conditions of public -vs- private sector workers is because public sector workers are represented by unions and private sector workers are not. When all this is being hammered out up in government buildings once a year, there is nobody there pushing for your agenda and there is nobody there pushing for the majority of workers in this country. In this context, minority vested interests have managed to have their own agenda's pushed far far ahead of what would be considered to be reasonable in the common good, and now that we have to take back that which has been given, we have a major problem on our hands.

gurramok

Re:Are there any public sector workers that have been sacked in the last year??

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

Yes.

Where? Temps don't count.

Taxipete29

mise_me_fein wrote: »

Are there any public sector workers on a 3 day week?

Are there any public sector workers that have been sacked in the last year?

Are there any public sector workers really earning more due to the deflation of prices(even if you don't take a paycut, you're wage is worth more this year than last)?

Are there any public sector workers worrying about the future, maybe the massive pension won't be so massive when you retire well ahead of any private sector worker.

It's easy to say nurses, gardai, firemen all work had. I'm sure most do. Have we proof of this. I mean, just say FOR EXAMPLE, they work bad...will they get sacked........ARE THERE ANY BAD TEACHERS IN THE SCHOOLS FOR YEARS UPON END......HMMMM....STILL THEY ONLY HAVE THE STUDENT AROUND 8 MONTHS OF THE YEAR, CANT TEACH THE OTHER 3 OR 4 AS THEY DONT WORK.


Come on, public sector wages in Ireland are higher than nearly all of the other EU states....

This needs a reality check.

What do the self employed get if they go bust in our society?...Sweet Fcuk all.......yes, these are the guys that created a lot of the jobs for others that pays for the taxes that pays for Public Sector Pensions.
All risk and great rewards but no safety net......wonder when they'll start striking...

From what I've read here, I doubt the PS will get much support on this from the rest of the country.

Your argument falls down as soon as you say look what happened to us, it has to happen to them.

The reason the PS has to take a pay cut is that the Government hasnt got the money to pay them. Its that simple. When you start talking about wages in other countries you dilute your argument. People in the private sector here also earn way more than their counterparts around the world and will continue to do so after taking their share of the cuts.

If people felt that strongly about PS pay they wouldnt of voted back in the Government who created this monster through the disgraceful policy of benchmarking. The PS didnt vote FF in by themselves. You reap what you sow in my opinion.

The Government allowed the unions to gain their power base by consistently giving into demands made under the threat of strike. Again you reap what you sow. None of this is new, so again I ask why did people vote in FF if they didnt like what was happening?? Why? because they were creaming it in the private sector and didnt care.

dgently

Read the thread title.

The idea is not to protest against the public sector.

The idea is to protest against the union-led action.

Unions say they represent their membership. Their membership is in both the private and public sector, but their relevance in the private sector is restricted to a small number of large corporates and semi-states.

In the public sector, they rule. In fairness, they've done well (short term) by their membership, but at a terrible cost to the country.

When their leaders bleat about the Governments mismanagement of the economy, they conveniently overlook the fact that the Unions have used their seat at the "Social Partnership" table to ruthlessly and recklessly enrich their membership in a manner that was never sustainable. The numbers speak for themselves. They are enemies of the State.

The Government made many mistakes during the boom. Failing to rein in the unions was one of the most serious.

A counter-protest is a wonderful idea. There are many many people in the Public sector who see the union leadership for what it is.

THis is not Public Sector versus Private Sector. This is not workers vs employers, or citizens vs the Government.

This is Irish Democracy and self-determination vs The Unions

Light the tar barrel, design a .pdf car sticker, write an anthem & I'll be there ;-)

ardmacha

Are there any public sector workers on a 3 day week?

No, because the population want their services, without paying for them. If the schools or hospitals only operated for 3 days a week then there would be outrage on boards.

Schrodingercat

Taxipete29 wrote: »

If people felt that strongly about PS pay they wouldnt of voted back in the Government who created this monster through the disgraceful policy of benchmarking. The PS didnt vote FF in by themselves. You reap what you sow in my opinion.

Would a government containing the labour party, who are part funded by unions , have been more likely to stand up to PS unions? The only ones likely to stand up to them were the PD's and we don't want to go down that road again.

And a lot of PS workers agree about Unions being a bit unreasonable as well I'm sure.

NewDubliner

dgently wrote: »

This is Irish Democracy and self-determination vs The Unions

The irony of it, unions are a democratic institution. So too are the powerful banks and property owners with whom you've decided to align yourself.

If you're going to sup with the devil, bring a long spoon.

Sandwich

Thank you dgently. Someone understood my post - unlike the knee jerk reactions arguing points being well aired elsewhere.

skearon

doc_17 wrote: »

The people slagging off the public sector should bear in mind that public servants have already taken 2 pay cuts in the past year. If we get hit a third time while non-residents (purely for tax purposes) are strolling round I'll go mental. Anyone calling for my pay to be cut again is naive if they believe I'll take it lying down.

The deluded members of the public service slagging off the private sector should bear in mind the 100% pay cut 250,000+ private sector people have suffered due to them losing their jobs, not to mention the rest of us paying more tax to pay their wages and huge defined benefit pensions

skearon

Rob67 wrote: »

How original, another anti public sector thread.

Translation - another common sense thread

Taxipete29

Schrodingercat wrote: »

Would a government containing the labour party, who are part funded by unions , have been more likely to stand up to PS unions? The only ones likely to stand up to them were the PD's and we don't want to go down that road again.

And a lot of PS workers agree about Unions being a bit unreasonable as well I'm sure.

The PDs were in Government when FF gave away the store with benchmarking.
I think Labour would be more engaged with the unions and would ultimatly arrive at the cuts needed. FF created the monster that are the PS unions by giving in time after time. Now when they need to get tough is it any wonder the unions are fighting back.

If some PS workers feel the unions are unreasonable, where are they?? I dont see them coming out and saying so or standing up to the unions which are supposed to be representing the workers and not pushing their own agenda which i feel is what is really going on here.

The problem is not the public sector workers, its not their unions, its the guys who are running the unions. These people talk about the Government being disengaged from real people yet they earn huge salaries on the back of workers dues. The unions need to reform themselves. They need proper leadership to stop sending down a path which has only one end.

thebman

ardmacha wrote: »

No, because the population want their services, without paying for them. If the schools or hospitals only operated for 3 days a week then there would be outrage on boards.

Judging from many posters here this is all the public sector does but there seems to be many people employed in other areas.

I think I'll just assume these are all redundant positions or maybe people could stop trying to use schools and hospitals as an attempt to protect themselves from pay cuts that have to come.