wild deer ireland .

jwshooter

this week we had a few incidents with poachers .
iv just been on the wild deer ireland wed site where i see they in conjunction with coillte ,npws ,deer alliance, country side alliance launched a campaign against poaching .

did the fuxxxxg thing sink ? more talk form groups that think deer only appear on a sunday morning.

a fair bit of this illegally shot ls deer is going into game dealers by guys with little stalking rights .

what is the problem ?.if there was a red kite or eagle killed we would hear about on 6 one news .

it would be great to see some one with a pair of balls take it on .

foxshooter243

jwshooter wrote: »

this week we had a few incidents with poachers .
iv just been on the wild deer ireland wed site where i see they in conjunction with coillte ,npws ,deer alliance, country side alliance launched a campaign against poaching .

did the fuxxxxg thing sink ? more talk form groups that think deer only appear on a sunday morning.

a fair bit of this illegally shot ls deer is going into game dealers by guys with little stalking rights .

what is the problem ?.if there was a red kite or eagle killed we would hear about on 6 one news .

it would be great to see some one with a pair of balls take it on .

Yeah between poachers and those that take ground to charge others for stalking in order to line their pockets the deer are under severe pressure!
I for one cant understand why man thinks that natures resources are there as a cash crop, and the only thing that they are good for is to put money into their pocket, its quite a sad and sickening prospect.
It is similar to buffalo in the US being wiped out en masse for money, it seems that greed is more important than the environment:rolleyes:

jwshooter

if i see any buffalo today il let ya know.;)

thedragon

jwshooter wrote: »

if i see any buffalo today il let ya know.;)

Ya wouldnt that be great !! we'd then have the IBS (Irish Buffalo Society)
How much would it cost to hunt Buffalo in Ireland JW.

JDBLASER

The thing Ive found with lads poaching good "expensive" ground is they usualy have a lot of local knowledge and support. They also have a lot of time on their hands meaning if one annoys them the problem gets worse because they get personal.. Know a couple of lads who have wasted a lot of time, diesel and phone calls trying to catch fellas and all they have succeeded in doing is making the problem worse.

4gun

you would seriously think there was a big shortage of deer in the country the way lads were going on. It's the usual crap that because certin fellas can't get the trophy stag they want it must because of poachers not that they probably can't hunt for s**t or are too lazy to be patient for the big stag to come along oooh them damn poachers taking all the trophies i'd bet if they only shot hinds there wouldn't be such a problem

thelurcher

foxshooter243 wrote: »

Yeah between poachers and those that take ground to charge others for stalking in order to line their pockets the deer are under severe pressure!
I for one cant understand why man thinks that natures resources are there as a cash crop, and the only thing that they are good for is to put money into their pocket, its quite a sad and sickening prospect.
It is similar to buffalo in the US being wiped out en masse for money, it seems that greed is more important than the environment:rolleyes:

Agree with you there foxshooter.

Best way to deal with these 'guides' is to make sure the land owner knows what they're making money wise - and also pass their details on to the local revenue office.

rob308

My opinion would be that if any individual has a problem with poaching on their grounds they should take a more pro-active approach themselves. From experience I know its not easy but surely its better trying to sort the problem yourself or at least part than looking for targets to blame.

meathstevie

In my opinion it's time to cut the crap and go the continental way. Proper hunting licences with issuing based on a thorough examination of law and knowledge and once you have it you can hunt ALL game on your permissions. That's from the humble rabbit to the 16-pointer red stag.

rob308

meathstevie wrote: »

In my opinion it's time to cut the crap and go the continental way. Proper hunting licences with issuing based on a thorough examination of law and knowledge and once you have it you can hunt ALL game on your permissions. That's from the humble rabbit to the 16-pointer red stag.

Agree with the need for cutting out all the crap and whining but i dont think that will solve the problem either. I'm not sure what will, bigger financial penalties?, withdrawal of firearm licenses without possibility of re-issue, jailtime? Dont think any of this will solve the problem. Its ingrained in the psyche and how do you stop that in the short-term?

J. Ramone

rob308 wrote: »

My opinion would be that if any individual has a problem with poaching on their grounds they should take a more pro-active approach themselves. From experience I know its not easy but surely its better trying to sort the problem yourself or at least part than looking for targets to blame.

True, there is no point in blaming others if you're not going to do anything about it yourself. The detection of poaching should be largely up to the landowner or legitimate stalkers. That said, that ground work would be largely a waste of time without backup available fronm the Gardai and/or Rangers in apprehending the culprits. They have more legal powers, for instance searching and off property apprehension. I'm not sure how experienced tha Gardai are in dealing with poachers, maybe they aren't being called out. Definitely better cooperation between all involved would help.

The current problem is only going to be cooled down by convictions and confiscation of firearms.

foxshooter243

Poaching as its called will always be with us, someone going out and getting permission from a farmer to cull deer on his land, then applying for the paperwork and doing so , will then end up killing a deer. The poacher will kill a deer as well only he wont have any permissions and wont have the paperwork-but the end result in both cases is a dead deer or two.
Gangs who shoot large amounts of deer and then sell them on to game dealers for profit are in the same business as those who take land and then charge individuals to shoot deer-the end result is large amounts of deer dead for cash!-the only factor seperating the two is simply paperwork, so you have to ask yourself does having the paperwork give someone the right to the moral high ground on the issue?. In my opinion the answer is no. Until the time comes when people realise that harvesting nature is a gift not to be abused then we will always have these issues, dont forget there are "poachers" out there who harvest deer only for the table and not for profit, these people have greater morals than those who hunt and kill for money!

J. Ramone

What you're saying Foxshooter is that anyone with a suitable licenced
firearm should morally consider himself or herself justified in shooting deer wherever they are present subject to some self imposed quota. If I met a person stalking my labouriously maintained brashpaths and spooking deer in my no go sanctuary areas I'd consider them to be a criminal engaged in a thieving act of which I would be the direct victim. If I met them with a lamp on the edge of the wood in the dead of night I would get the impression that they are not the type of person morally bothered by equity in the distribution of this natural resourse.

foxshooter243

J. Ramone wrote: »

What you're saying Foxshooter is that anyone with a suitable licenced
firearm should morally consider himself or herself justified in shooting deer wherever they are present subject to some self imposed quota. If I met a person stalking my labouriously maintained brashpaths and spooking deer in my no go sanctuary areas I'd consider them to be a criminal engaged in a thieving act of which I would be the direct victim. If I met them with a lamp on the edge of the wood in the dead of night I would get the impression that they are not the type of person morally bothered by equity in the distribution of this natural resourse.

What im saying is that hunting is an act designed to put food on the table, the problems begin when thats forgotten and greed takes over, no-one has any right to decry others when they themselves are surplus killing for profit-they are then acting after a fashion like mink or foxes whom hunters loathe because of this behaviour.

It is encumbent on us all to make sure we dont overkill or eradicate any species..man has shown himself to be very capable in that regard, plains buffalo were almost wiped out for financial gain..thats the nature of man.
So to lay blame at the feet of a man who may only be killing for the table is wrong.the biggest threat to any species is mans greed!-wether that comes about due to direct or indirect action.

pedroeibar

meathstevie wrote: »

In my opinion it's time to cut the crap and go the continental way. Proper hunting licences with issuing based on a thorough examination of law and knowledge and once you have it you can hunt ALL game on your permissions. That's from the humble rabbit to the 16-pointer red stag.

That's not true for France. You have to obtain a hunting licence to buy many firearms but the exam is quite easy, tick the box multiple answer questions with many of the questions based on gun safety. The pass level required is 80%. You also have to have a quarry-specific license from the Departement in which you want to shoot and going out without someone from a local Commune you are wasting your time and risking your gun. You have no right to shoot on private property and if caught poaching you will definitely lose your firearm for a considerable time, in addition to a big fine.
P.

Glensman

Have to agree with Ramone. You can't just dander on to someone else's land and shoot away. Someone may have been feeding these animals and keeping down predators (not just talking about deer) they aren't doing it for someone else's benefit.

meathstevie

Foxshooter243, you have my wholehearted agreement with your last statement.

When I hinted at using the continental system of hunting licencing I see it as a means of easing up access to deer to the ordinary lad with his gun and his dog while in the meantime limiting the chances of the of commercial stalking business developing much further.

To give you an idea of how the continental system can work I'll use the example of the gunclub my father is involved in over in Belgium. The club covers about 8 towns roughly 15 to 20 miles north - northwest of Brussels.

There's about 30 gun owning members of which about 6 or 7 have taken on a gamekeepers role. They hunt together in walk up shoots twice a weekend during the season and during the week on respective opening days. Some friends and family come along for the dander and do a bit of beating. When a higher number of guns turn up than expected they split up in two groups and divide the land that was to be hunted on that day between them and spend a bit more time in the pub.

They manage their game quite well without releasing a single bird and at the moment have very good stocks of pheasant, hare, duck and some roedeer on their permissions. A usual day worth of hunting will result in about 10 to 15 pheasants and roughly the same amount of hares and rabbits. Some of the game is used as a token payment to landowners, some is taken by the lads for the pot and the bulk is sold to poultry dealers to finance the club.

The demographics of the club are very varied ranging from my dads generation in their mid sixties to a couple of 18 year old lads. Their backgrounds range from factory workers, a few self employed tradesmen, a couple of coppers, a publican, a couple of farmers, a solicitor and a couple of lads on the dole.


In the long run the only thing commercially ran hunting business does is limiting access to hunting by ordinary hunters and commercialising what's in essence a naturally occuring resource even further.

foxshooter243

Glensman wrote: »

Have to agree with Ramone. You can't just dander on to someone else's land and shoot away. Someone may have been feeding these animals and keeping down predators (not just talking about deer) they aren't doing it for someone else's benefit.

apologies glensman if im not coming across properly here, im not advocating trespassing on other folks hunting grounds,

I have now amassed quite a large area of deer hunting ground in Donegal, but would never think for one minute to take someone on to it and charge them to shoot deer..if I wanted i could but dont!. However I know a lad who does, his motivation is to get as many folks as he can who will pay him money and they shoot as many deer as can be found, now to listen to this guy rant about poaching leaves me gobsmacked!

meathstevie

Pedro, I know the system in France would be slightly different from the one in Belgium but it's still based on a proper licence obtained through knowledge and landowners permission for access. As far as I know the departemental aspect is also geared towards population control and conservation efforts. A similar system exists in Belgium as well where the holders of permissions have to agree a management plan for certain species ( especially deer ) with the equivalent of the NPWS. Over or undershooting your management plan carries financial penalties. The aim of this type of management plan is twofold, keep the numbers manageable and keep the population balanced.

DR6.5

Foxshooter243, you cant compare poachers and a lad that takes on ground and lets it to a group of stalkers to pay for the ground. At least the ground is going to be managed and not every animal in sight is going to be shot. If a lad has paid good money for his stalking and some f***er comes along and poaches/lamps the ground whether its one animal for the pot or 10 animals for the gamedealer he is breaking the law.

There is no deterent for the lampers, the penalties are not severe enough and even after they have been punished they are back shooting.

This year seems to be particulary bad, id say due to a lot of lads loosing their jobs, they are making a nice little earner by lamping deer, they seem to be at it day and night in Wicklow at the minute.


Wicklow202

Glensman

foxshooter243 wrote: »

apologies glensman if im not coming across properly here, im not advocating trespassing on other folks hunting grounds,

I have now amassed quite a large area of deer hunting ground in Donegal, but would never think for one minute to take someone on to it and charge them to shoot deer..if I wanted i could but dont!. However I know a lad who does, his motivation is to get as many folks as he can who will pay him money and they shoot as many deer as can be found, now to listen to this guy rant about poaching leaves me gobsmacked!

You'd have a hard time not F**in a fella like that out of it. I know in some areas of Donegal deer are almost considered a pest but it's still important that numbers are controlled responsibly. The man you describe is no better than a poacher, in fact he's a lot worse than plenty of them!

We have a separate issue in Aontroim where some poxy Lord owns shooting rights to thousands of acres of land and all the forestry. As if that git had to pay for it. Someone 'poaching' on that ground would have my FULL approval!

pedroeibar

meathstevie wrote: »

Foxshooter243, you have my wholehearted agreement with your last statement.

When I hinted at using the continental system of hunting licencing I see it as a means of easing up access to deer to the ordinary lad with his gun and his dog while in the meantime limiting the chances of the of commercial stalking business developing much further.

To give you an idea of how the continental system can work I'll use the example of the gunclub my father is involved in over in Belgium. The club covers about 8 towns roughly 15 to 20 miles north - northwest of Brussels.

There's about 30 gun owning members of which about 6 or 7 have taken on a gamekeepers role. They hunt together in walk up shoots twice a weekend during the season and during the week on respective opening days. Some friends and family come along for the dander and do a bit of beating. When a higher number of guns turn up than expected they split up in two groups and divide the land that was to be hunted on that day between them and spend a bit more time in the pub.

They manage their game quite well without releasing a single bird and at the moment have very good stocks of pheasant, hare, duck and some roedeer on their permissions. A usual day worth of hunting will result in about 10 to 15 pheasants and roughly the same amount of hares and rabbits. Some of the game is used as a token payment to landowners, some is taken by the lads for the pot and the bulk is sold to poultry dealers to finance the club.

The demographics of the club are very varied ranging from my dads generation in their mid sixties to a couple of 18 year old lads. Their backgrounds range from factory workers, a few self employed tradesmen, a couple of coppers, a publican, a couple of farmers, a solicitor and a couple of lads on the dole.


In the long run the only thing commercially ran hunting business does is limiting access to hunting by ordinary hunters and commercialising what's in essence a naturally occuring resource even further.

You're sort of defeating your own point with this.
What your Da and his mates have is a great set-up, but it essentially is a private shooting club. As such, that land is exclusive to your Da's club and not open to outsiders, so how does that open up shooting for others?
P.

pedroeibar

meathstevie wrote: »

Pedro, I know the system in France would be slightly different from the one in Belgium but it's still based on a proper licence obtained through knowledge and landowners permission for access. As far as I know the departemental aspect is also geared towards population control and conservation efforts. A similar system exists in Belgium as well where the holders of permissions have to agree a management plan for certain species ( especially deer ) with the equivalent of the NPWS. Over or undershooting your management plan carries financial penalties. The aim of this type of management plan is twofold, keep the numbers manageable and keep the population balanced.

Agreed, France/Belgium are much the same. In France part of the licence fee goes to fund the local NPWS and cull numbers are agreed in advance.
You are posting on preservation, rather than poaching. I'm all for the former but seriously against the latter.
As owner of some shooting rights that a group of us stock, manage and shoot, I get seriously pi$$ed off by people who advocate a free for all approach to shooting. A few of us were down at the shoot last weekend doing some dogging-in and met two guys who were actually "dogging out" some of our birds! They had gone onto the fields bordering our shoot and were working the hedges away from us. That's the type of crap that gets me and nothing can be done about it.:mad:
Rs
P

foxshooter243

DR6.5 wrote: »

Foxshooter243, you cant compare poachers and a lad that takes on ground and lets it to a group of stalkers to pay for the ground. At least the ground is going to be managed and not every animal in sight is going to be shot. If a lad has paid good money for his stalking and some f***er comes along and poaches/lamps the ground whether its one animal for the pot or 10 animals for the gamedealer he is breaking the law.

There is no deterent for the lampers, the penalties are not severe enough and even after they have been punished they are back shooting.

This year seems to be particulary bad, id say due to a lot of lads loosing their jobs, they are making a nice little earner by lamping deer, they seem to be at it day and night in Wicklow at the minute.


Wicklow202

DR6.5..There was a forestry and some surrounding land taken by out of state shooters in Donegal a few years back, this year they didnt take the lease simply because there isnt a deer left on it, they are now going mad looking for permissions for this season. Proper herd management is very desireable but when money is involved, it takes a back seat...now dont get me wrong im not saying that poaching is right, what i am saying that when we lose sight of the fact that natures resouces are there to be harvested in a proper fashion and greed takes over then nature suffers, its happening around us and all over the world..its a problem thats inherent in the make up of man..there really isnt any difference in someone knocking off deer at night and selling them to an unscrupulous game dealer and someone else charging"clients" to kill them.

The latter just tries to assume some air of respectability about it, the end result is the same.

thedragon

I hear about foreigner shooting trophys in Connemara and other places like that,costing anywhere from 5k to 15k. Its absolutely f**king disgusting. That point made earlier about filling in revenue could be a very useful way of policing the situation and one I never actually tought about untill now.

foxshooter243

thedragon wrote: »

I hear about foreigner shooting trophys in Connemara and other places like that,costing anywhere from 5k to 15k. Its absolutely f**king disgusting. That point made earlier about filling in revenue could be a very useful way of policing the situation and one I never actually tought about untill now.

Well in a sense they are raping the countrys natural resources and should be taxed accordingly...one good turn deserves another:D

bunny shooter

DR6.5 wrote: »

Foxshooter243, you cant compare poachers and a lad that takes on ground and lets it to a group of stalkers to pay for the ground. At least the ground is going to be managed and not every animal in sight is going to be shot. If a lad has paid good money for his stalking and some f***er comes along and poaches/lamps the ground whether its one animal for the pot or 10 animals for the gamedealer he is breaking the law.

There is no deterent for the lampers, the penalties are not severe enough and even after they have been punished they are back shooting.

This year seems to be particulary bad, id say due to a lot of lads loosing their jobs, they are making a nice little earner by lamping deer, they seem to be at it day and night in Wicklow at the minute.


Wicklow202

Lamping during the day now there's something I haven't tried

Foxshooter & Dragon I agree with you 100%

deerhunter1

4gun wrote: »

you would seriously think there was a big shortage of deer in the country the way lads were going on. It's the usual crap that because certin fellas can't get the trophy stag they want it must because of poachers not that they probably can't hunt for s**t or are too lazy to be patient for the big stag to come along oooh them damn poachers taking all the trophies i'd bet if they only shot hinds there wouldn't be such a problem

Here Here Well said 100% correct

foxshooter243

deerhunter1 wrote: »

Here Here Well said 100% correct

If thats directed at me , then theres nothing correct about it!..last season i killed ten deer which were butchered and given to my family and friends, as far as not being able to hunt for **** is concerned, I would leave yous two boys in a dark place when hunting and shooting comes in to it!
Last week i was culling some wild goats on a hill for a farmer friend of mines and shot a billy at 542 yards, three others in succession at 400 yards one after the other, in 12-15 mph winds coming from 8 0clock, get back to me with the ballistic adjustments required with the ammo and calibre you use if you were to attempt those shots:rolleyes:

deerhunter1

foxshooter243 wrote: »

If thats directed at me , then theres nothing correct about it!..last season i killed ten deer which were butchered and given to my family and friends, as far as not being able to hunt for **** is concerned, I would leave yous two boys in a dark place when hunting and shooting comes in to it!
Last week i was culling some wild goats on a hill for a farmer friend of mines and shot a billy at 542 yards, three others in succession at 400 yards one after the other, in 12-15 mph winds coming from 8 0clock, get back to me with the ballistic adjustments required with the ammo and calibre you use if you were to attempt those shots:rolleyes:

????????????????? What u talking about boy

foxshooter243

deerhunter1 wrote: »

????????????????? What u talking about boy

Whats the problem, you seconded 4guns post which suggested that the reason people were bitching about poaching is because they cant hunt, im simply defending myself..Boy!

johngalway

I don't understand the paperwork/exam suggestion. Anyone with a firearm, from a shotgun to a centrefire can and will poach deer if the desire is there to do so. I don't think it would solve anything, except to give more red tape headaches to the genuine lads out there. I've a .223 and go lamping fox, often watched deer through my sights, could have often taken them in places people would have never known it had happened. Never have and never will.

deerhunter1

foxshooter243 wrote: »

Whats the problem, you seconded 4guns post which suggested that the reason people were bitching about poaching is because they cant hunt, im simply defending myself..Boy!

Sounds like a guilty concience:D

foxshooter243

deerhunter1 wrote: »

Sounds like a guilty concience:D

nope no guilty concience here Deer hunter! not as far as hunting is concerned anyway:D:D

foxshooter243

Ìm going to end my input into this thread by saying this, to take any creatures life is a difficult thing, but when we start to do so for financial gain, then its inherently wrong! agree or disagree, its up to you.

deerhunter1

foxshooter243 wrote: »

nope no guilty concience here Deer hunter! not as far as hunting is concerned anyway:D:D

good man thats what I like to hear, thats the difference between hunters and shooters, happy hunting

s-cogan

foxshooter243 wrote: »

If thats directed at me , then theres nothing correct about it!..last season i killed ten deer which were butchered and given to my family and friends, as far as not being able to hunt for **** is concerned, I would leave yous two boys in a dark place when hunting and shooting comes in to it!
Last week i was culling some wild goats on a hill for a farmer friend of mines and shot a billy at 542 yards, three others in succession at 400 yards one after the other, in 12-15 mph winds coming from 8 0clock, get back to me with the ballistic adjustments required with the ammo and calibre you use if you were to attempt those shots:rolleyes:

being a good shot is nothing to do with being a good hunter.


no offence.

deerhunter1

s-cogan wrote: »

being a good shot is nothing to do with being a good hunter.


no offence.

well said it is what I meant to say

arrowloopboy

foxshooter243 wrote: »

If thats directed at me , then theres nothing correct about it!..last season i killed ten deer which were butchered and given to my family and friends, as far as not being able to hunt for **** is concerned, I would leave yous two boys in a dark place when hunting and shooting comes in to it!
Last week i was culling some wild goats on a hill for a farmer friend of mines and shot a billy at 542 yards, three others in succession at 400 yards one after the other, in 12-15 mph winds coming from 8 0clock, get back to me with the ballistic adjustments required with the ammo and calibre you use if you were to attempt those shots:rolleyes:

Wow:rolleyes::D:D

arrowloopboy

foxshooter243 wrote: »

Ìm going to end my input into this thread by saying this, to take any creatures life is a difficult thing, but when we start to do so for financial gain, then its inherently wrong! agree or disagree, its up to you.

How about farmers F,they rare animals for slaughter for financial gain(not much mind ya),this makes sh1t of your arguement,just a taught.

Vegeta

arrowloopboy wrote: »

How about farmers F,they rare animals for slaughter for financial gain(not much mind ya),this makes sh1t of your arguement,just a taught.

Not really.

Farmers are not pretending to be anything but a farmer.

jwshooter

arnt i glad i was hunting all day !

4gun

foxshooter243 wrote: »

If thats directed at me , then theres nothing correct about it!..last season i killed ten deer which were butchered and given to my family and friends, as far as not being able to hunt for **** is concerned, I would leave yous two boys in a dark place when hunting and shooting comes in to it!
Last week i was culling some wild goats on a hill for a farmer friend of mines and shot a billy at 542 yards, three others in succession at 400 yards one after the other, in 12-15 mph winds coming from 8 0clock, get back to me with the ballistic adjustments required with the ammo and calibre you use if you were to attempt those shots:rolleyes:

if your doing all that with out a hi-tech range finder then maybe "wow" but a shot like that taken out of context like you might have missed 3 or 4 in sucession before that
and any way what is wrong with some one taking lads out on their permission to shoot deer, for their clients it might be the only way to get to shoot what with some lads grabbing whole parishes for themselves

meathstevie

pedroeibar wrote: »

You're sort of defeating your own point with this.
What your Da and his mates have is a great set-up, but it essentially is a private shooting club. As such, that land is exclusive to your Da's club and not open to outsiders, so how does that open up shooting for others?
P.

Pedro, it's not about exclusivity. People can freely join and leave the club as they wish. My dad would for example know a fair few farmers around our hometown and has permission to hunt their land. Other lads are the same in the adjacent towns and they have pooled their resources and defacto opened up access to land for eachother ( they learnt the hard way through rows over the years ). If anyone wants to join they're welcome to do so if they have the proper licencing and contribute to the running of the club.
Quite often during the season lads invite friends for a days hunting and the only money that changes hands is a fiver for the kitty which is paid by the regular members every hunting day. They only requirement is to bring in someone on an invite is that you let the lads know a week or two before as a matter of courtesy.

I agree that there's a certain level of exclusivity as not everyone from anywhere will be allowed to shoot a farmers' land but neither do factories allow you to saunter into their premises without permission. There's one thing us hunters shouldn't forget and that's the simple fact that farmers allow us access to their vital resources for very little in return but a bit of respect and acknowledgement.

The bottom line is that under the continental system no two tier hunting society has developped to the extent as it has in the UK where a very few control a lot of the more interesting shooting and will charge you through the nose for a days' hunting. Sorry if I'm wrong guys but I can't shake off the idea that creating a sort of artificial exclusivity is exactly what certain people are trying to create in Ireland.

4gun

foxshooter243 wrote: »

Ìm going to end my input into this thread by saying this, to take any creatures life is a difficult thing, but when we start to do so for financial gain, then its inherently wrong! agree or disagree, its up to you.

and i agree with you on this point the deer dont belong to any one if you feed them or in some way tend to the ground you make it easier for "commercial poachers" or for any one else to come in and shoot them
last year I saw a lovely 8 point sika on the mountain where i shoot first time he was well out of range second time i had him in my sights.... he was well within my range.... I didnt shoot him...didn't want to shoot him i thaught he looked better on the side of the mountain than hanging from my wall...as i thrned away i knew that the next person to lay eyes on him wouldnt be so sentimental ... well I never saw the stag since
my point being the deer are free animals they are there for everyone, no one has a right to say that such deer on any mountain or plot is theirs even if you own the land they're on

4gun

jwshooter wrote: »

arnt i glad i was hunting all day !

:Dtypical throw in a grenade.... and run like hell..:D:D

meathstevie

johngalway wrote: »

I don't understand the paperwork/exam suggestion. Anyone with a firearm, from a shotgun to a centrefire can and will poach deer if the desire is there to do so. I don't think it would solve anything, except to give more red tape headaches to the genuine lads out there. I've a .223 and go lamping fox, often watched deer through my sights, could have often taken them in places people would have never known it had happened. Never have and never will.

That's fair enough John. I've met you face to face and if my capability of judging someone's caracter is any good I dare say you're as sound as they come but unfortunately not everyone who's got two signatures from farmers
sometime in the past is made of the same stuff.

A proper hunting licencing system would eliminate a lot of the dodgier caracters ( from an hunting point of view that is ) as it would entail just that little bit more effort than going into the Garda station with two letters and filling in a form and for a genuine lad it could cut out a lot of red tape.You could roll foreshore licence, deer permit and firearms certificate all into the one while now you're talking about a licence for the one a permit for the other and all to be gotten in different places. And on top of that the door wide open for a quick chancer to grab the deer permissions in an area and to run away from under your nose with the deer fillets in a fully legal way.

foxshooter243

4gun wrote: »

if your doing all that with out a hi-tech range finder then maybe "wow" but a shot like that taken out of context like you might have missed 3 or 4 in sucession before that
and any way what is wrong with some one taking lads out on their permission to shoot deer, for their clients it might be the only way to get to shoot what with some lads grabbing whole parishes for themselves

The ony way a shot like that should be taken is WITH the use of a rangefinder-that post is a reflection of your poor knowledge on the subject of long range shooting! fwiw.

foxshooter243

s-cogan wrote: »

being a good shot is nothing to do with being a good hunter.


no offence.

That is like saying the ability to cast a fly precisely has nothing to do with trout fishing:rolleyes:

4gun

meathstevie wrote: »

That's fair enough John. I've met you face to face and if my capability of judging someone's caracter is any good I dare say you're as sound as they come but unfortunately not everyone who's got two signatures from farmers
sometime in the past is made of the same stuff.

A proper hunting licencing system would eliminate a lot of the dodgier caracters ( from an hunting point of view that is ) as it would entail just that little bit more effort than going into the Garda station with two letters and filling in a form and for a genuine lad it could cut out a lot of red tape.You could roll foreshore licence, deer permit and firearms certificate all into the one while now you're talking about a licence for the one a permit for the other and all to be gotten in different places. And on top of that the door wide open for a quick chancer to grab the deer permissions in an area and to run away from under your nose with the deer fillets in a fully legal way.

how would any of that get rid of poachers in other countries where they have "proper licencing systems" they still have a lot of poachers, I heard lads saying how they have taken stags from the national park in killarney and they have full time rangers down there
the only way you can cut down on poaching in by having full more time rangers and in order to do that a charge will have to be introduced for your licence along with a tagging system like for salmon fishing and see the uproar that caused when it was first introduced
I wonder how many would bitch about having to pay to shoot "their deer"

4gun

foxshooter243 wrote: »

The ony way a shot like that should be taken is WITH the use of a rangefinder-that post is a reflection of your poor knowledge on the subject of long range shooting! fwiw.

thats not hunting that target practice in my book give your quarrie some chance, get in on top, into under 100yds thats hunting