HARDIEST 4X4 JEEP for FARMING/offroad.. REC

c-note

Hey guys,
Current situation:
we have a toyota landcruiser (01) on the farm,
its used for herding and covers about 10-15 miles on the farm every day.
the tracks thru the land are quite rough in places, the feilds can be soft in places with the usual ruts left by heavy machinery.

its driven by up to 4 people which isnt good to start with

this is the 3rd "modern" landcruiser we've had in row (since about '92).

On road, they're fine, light off road, fine, but As a heavy duty off roader my opinon is that they;re balls of ****.

the 3 landcruisers we've had have worked their way thru at least one 4wd gearbox each, all have had driveshaft issues, 2 have had shocks replaced, i dont rate the axle's at all, and the bumpers on the 01 version may aswell be held on with duct tape.

The current cruiser is nearly jocked and may need replacement within a year or two.

so what i'm hoping is that someone with the know can tell me what the hariest, toughtest 4x4 out there is. something with robust axels and shocks a decent 4wd gearbox and bodywork that isnt held on with plastic pegs!
i was thinking about an old defender? they certainly look tough and simple but we've never had one.
Road handling and comfort should be acceptable but is a secondary concern.

if any of you have a 4x4 that's subject to fairly abusive conditions regularly, i'd really love to hear your experience, and if you'd recommend it. i'm suppose what i'm after is a jeep with the ruggedness of a tractor! wheras modern jeeps seem to have the ruggedness of regualar road cars.

Thanks for all replies,:)

Slidey

Buy a unimog!

I am no fan of the Landrover but I believe for off road capability the defender is hard beaten.

I drove the Toyota equivalent of the defender in Oz for a while and it was a formidable beast on a work site with a 1000 litre diesel tank in the back! Cannot think what they are called here but they were just referred to as cruisers over there.

101sean

It's a shame you can't buy basic Landcruisers and Patrols without the crap they put on them for the european market, they are highly rated in Oz and all the aid agencies use them. None of the euro spec Jap dual cab pickups will last long under the conditions you have.

The Defender is by far the toughest and most capable production utility off roader going but as much as it pains me to say it, the modern ones are not the most reliable, especially as it's likely to be driven by different drivers who don't care. May be look at ex british army ones, well maintained with a slow but nigh on indestructible 2.5 naturally asthmatic diesel and pre dented bodywork

Don't know if there are any dealers here but the Iveco Massif (formally Santana PS10) is a sort of new old style Defender without the ECUs and fancy stuff built in Spain.

Unfortunately no one sells what you really need at a price you can afford (have a look at Unimog prices, seriously scary :eek:) too limited a market, most want a soft ride and shiny stuff.

rcdk1

Slidey wrote: »

I drove the Toyota equivalent of the defender in Oz for a while and it was a formidable beast on a work site with a 1000 litre diesel tank in the back! Cannot think what they are called here but they were just referred to as cruisers over there.

Hilux maybe? They have the "reputation" of being indestructible, but then again I would have said that about the Landcruiser too.

Would you consider a quad for herding?

Slidey

Nah, it was one of these

101sean

Yes, that's a proper Landcruiser Ute, don't know what series but you can't buy them here. It's the vehicle along with the original HiLux that cost Land Rover all their utility market share worldwide in the 70/80s :mad:

101sean

The original HiLux is the one Top Gear couldn't destroy and favourite of gun toting insurgents in the worlds trouble spots (known as Technicals with a heavy machine gun mount bolted to the bed and carrying a dozen AK47 toting lunatics).

Again, the current version sold here isn't up to it straight out of the box.

biblio

Daihatsu Fourtrak maybe? The neighbours have tried to kill their ones several times but the three of them are still going strong. 2x '92 ones and a '98 one.

foxhunter

Slidey wrote: »

Nah, it was one of these

I've seen these over here there is a crew of polish going around doing repairs for the esb and putting up new poles "pun intended"

Slidey

There was a gang of Kiwi's putting up the large steel pylons round Sligo with them.

I'm sure you could import one if you wanted.

That one in the photo had the non-turbo 4.2 (iirc), it was sluggish enough but drove the same loaded or empty.

The lads on the site used to borrow it to knock down small trees instead of cutting them down!

CJhaughey

Thats a HJZ 78 landcruiser.
The earlier model was the HJZ 75 which didn't have rear coils, it had leaf springs.
The 4.2 is a good lump of an engine, same as the 80 series but naturally aspirated.
The new ones have a V8 diesel.

BeardyGit

To be honest, if the lads who are driving it have managed to wreck a box in each of 3 successive landcruisers, you're probably going to find they'll break whatever you replace it with too. Half shafts/prop-shafts will always need replacing if they're subjected to lots of rough stop/start driving and mud/****e etc... The only thing a defender will have going for it is that the parts will be cheaper than a toyota when someone does break it, assuming you'd fit pattern bits (why not).

Simple fact on this one is that there's no such thing as a perfect vehicle, even if you had a BIG budget. The closest you'd get would be a 'Mog, but if something goes wallop in a box or axle on that it could leave you broke altogether....

So, acknowledging that whatever you buy WILL break, it comes down to how easy it is to get it fixed (or fix yourself) and how much those kind of repairs are likely to cost you, including parts. Considering that, my money would be on a Defender 90 or 110 any day. In standard form it'll whip most other yokes offroad, won't break the bank to replace mechnicals (less if you do it yourself) and you'd be able to get the parts delivered to your door within a couple of days for a fraction of what you'll pay for anything else.

They also hold their value incredibly well and take a lot of abuse before they'll sit down for good. The reputation they have for reliability is undeserved in all fairness - Machines break, these do too and they're easy and cheap to put right. But the reputation is largely down to people ignoring the fact that they ARE more like a tractor than a car, and as such, they need certain things doing to see them run trouble free for year after year.

Change the oil/filters regularly including diffs, gearbox and t-box, grease the propshaft UJ's and sliding joints and keep axles breathers cleared and they'll go on and on and on... I can do all the above in a few hours on a Saturday morning once every few months (although the engine oil/filter gets done every 2 months with the use mine gets).

Wheel bearings need doing every so often if it's used for heavy towing etc too, but to give you an idea on costs, you'll get OE Timkin bearings for €8 each including VAT from an online supplier (paddocks), versus €40ish in a main-dealer, versus god only knows how much for a toyota equivalent. I can change a pair (2 per corner) in an hour or so with a grand total of 2 spanners, a box spanner, a hammer and a bearing splitter, and I'd get 40-50k out of a pair with lots of offroading on big mud terrains and lots of towing in between....

I've even changed a broken halfshaft on a Defender in less than an hour including a diff oil change, on the side of a mountain, and it cost less than €100 including new gasket/end dust cap and EP to flush the diff....where else would you get it?

On the body thing, you can replace an entire outer wing with a couple of spanners in less than an hour and for less than €100 for new parts. A headlight will cost you less than €20, brand new....

If you're handy with a bag of spanners, give a 90/110 some serious consideration. Anyone who knows their way around tractors will deal with the mechanicals on one with absolute ease.

Like I said before, they're not perfect, but with a bit of routine lube and an occasional shot with the power hose to keep the heavy ****e off the chassis, you'll easily see 15 years out of one on a farm.

DanFindy

I had a 97 Hilux and i couldnt kill it, i worked on a very rough site with dumper ruts etc and it never even tried to break, a good one is now hard to get and all the more modern stuff is sh**te

peasant

If you're just using it to poke a few cows and maybe carry a bale of hay (i.e nothing to big or too heavy) I would recommend looking into the Suzuki Jimny

(Hey ...no sniggering at the back there!)

Seriously ...it is one very capable and sturdy off-road machine (once you get proper tyres on it) and due to it only weighing 1.1 tons, it flies over ground where other yokes get bogged down.

It's got solid axles with coils back and front, proper switchable 4WD with high and low gearbox.

The engine has enough poke (for a 1.3) and is very reliable.

Also, it's been around for ten years now and you can get an old city car that's never seen any offroading for 2k or so and run it into the ground without too much financial worry.

Bitten & Hisses

What about a Land Cruiser VX/Amazon? I know of a contractor who manages to get 9 to 10 years of abuse out of each one.

gofaster_s13

101sean wrote: »

It's a shame you can't buy basic Landcruisers and Patrols without the crap they put on them for the european market, they are highly rated in Oz and all the aid agencies use them. None of the euro spec Jap dual cab pickups will last long under the conditions you have.
.

You can buy basic Landcruisers Ascon/Bam civils have a fleet of them, no carpet, steel wheels and no body trim they take serious hardship and still don't give anything like the trouble your describing. No vehicle will handle abuse be it Defender or Unimog(which if abused give more than their fair share of VERY expensive trouble) if a Landcruiser is driven with any sort of mechanical sympathy it will give very good service, if its been driven ignorantly it(and any other vehicle) will give plenty of trouble

CJhaughey

gofaster_s13 wrote: »

You can buy basic Landcruisers Ascon/Bam civils have a fleet of them, no carpet, steel wheels and no body trim they take serious hardship and still don't give anything like the trouble your describing. No vehicle will handle abuse be it Defender or Unimog(which if abused give more than their fair share of VERY expensive trouble) if a Landcruiser is driven with any sort of mechanical sympathy it will give very good service, if its been driven ignorantly it(and any other vehicle) will give plenty of trouble

Thats the GL spec, I know, I have one.
BUT they are not the same beast as the 75/78 series ones.
Less power,and not the same mechanicals.
To be fair the market for proper off-road vehicles is tiny especially in Europe, and what sells is bling and comfort in 99.9% of 4x4 markets.
If the OP is serious about a tough farm vehicle than maybe he should look at buying one of those 78 series trayback Utes it might be just what he is looking for, but it sounds to me like he is abusing vehicles and expecting them to last without proper mechanical care.

twofish101

Why not buy a hack for the farm and keep the toyota for road work that way you could get something like a series 3 landrover which is leafsprung and cannot be driven fast on rough ground, it will still deal with the mud etc, and cheap to fix too, the other thing no one has mentioned yet is a quad which is light and capable and can tow a trailer and go all the way to 6x6 wheel drive.

If more than one needs to travel at the time look at the John Deere Gator,
http://www.deere.com/en_US/ProductCatalog/HO/series/HO_gator_hp_series.html

or the kawasaki mule
http://www.kawasaki.com/Products/Product-Specifications.aspx?scid=15&id=392

rcdk1

rcdk1 wrote: »

Would you consider a quad for herding?

twofish101 wrote: »

the other thing no one has mentioned yet is a quad which is light and capable and can tow a trailer and go all the way to 6x6 wheel drive.

Beat you to it by 3 days 8 hours and 37 minutes;)

cartonj

A tractor would probably be more comfortable and quieter than a Defender. If the lads are able to wreck a cruiser then they'll break anything.

I'd say get an old hilux for the field and keep the jeep right for the road. Or maybe try a Carina II damndabale yokes!

Mr.Boots

AN ex agency defender from the UK maybe?

Also, if the lads are breaking them...why arnt they paying for them? Otherwise its just a nerver ending circle.

http://www.exmod.co.uk/index.html

elius

I can give a good account of both..

I drove both land cruisers and hilux in work for 8yrs on heavy ground (market Gardening). And to be honest was never impressed. Off Road i think both leave alot to be desired. The landcruiser was rubbish all it did was spin wheels and try to go side ways the hiluxs was no better netheir offer good ground clearance and both are subject to mechanical faults.

I also off road and drive landrovers as a personal hobie and to be honest nothing comes close.. Defenders are work horses although not as uncomfertable as people make out. I recently did 1000km in two days and found it spot on. Why not try a Discovery MK1. Have great ground clearance comfy and can off road as good as a defender.. They both share the exact same chassis set up. Only thing differant is the body.. I once drove from wicklow to meath with a vice grips as a tentioner pulley as the bearing had collapsed while off roading at night and had full power the hole way home..

Just my 2 cents worth
(apoligies about the poor spelling)

k974

i have the latest model of the landcruiser ute that is pictured a few posts back, 180litre long range tanks arb bull and brush bars, toyota diff locks front and rear, warn 12,000lb winch and uhf, 2nd spare wheel, bfg goodrich tyres (no good diff tyres next time) the latest model (mine) has the 4.5 V8 D4D engine out of the latest amazone only one turbo tho.

i work in very very remote areas in australia and really punish my vehicles i've often towed 3500kg off road in over 40c heat, nothing and i mean nothing can match the lancruiser (not the prado as in europe but the one pictured). I wouldnt risk my life (you break down in the simpson desert in middle of summer) in anything less.

the only other thing that comes close is the nissan patrol ute, basically the same with the 4.2 TD42t engine. from bout 05 on they had the 3.0 common rail engine proven to be not worth a pinch of ****. the 4.2's are arguably as good as the toyota i'm a toyota man but many people reckon the patrol is better.

you can get the cruiser from gibraltor and germany from a company that imports them, mine cost $70,000 brand new.

people talk about denfender but when you add the diff locks (factory option )etc to the landcruiser they no advantages, its ok at home but when your health/life depends on there relability in tough conditions theres no way i'd risk the defender.

k974

Slidey wrote: »

There was a gang of Kiwi's putting up the large steel pylons round Sligo with them.

I'm sure you could import one if you wanted.

That one in the photo had the non-turbo 4.2 (iirc), it was sluggish enough but drove the same loaded or empty.

The lads on the site used to borrow it to knock down small trees instead of cutting them down!

are they kiwi contractors? are they nz vehicles?

Slidey

They were a Kiwi company afaik. Think the jeeps were on Northern Ireland plates

PaddyThai

I find this thread fascinating. I drive a 1997 Hilux single cab and find it excellent off road in fields etc. I had considered a Defender before opting for the Hilux. The Hilux is arguably more comfortable on road. I've had mine lifted and with wide all terrain tyres.

Regrettably few 4x4 out there are built for work. I drove a 4x4 ex US army jeep in Laos about 20 yeras ago and loved the way it was rugged. Only functional easy to use and replace bits on her. The owner told me she broke down occasionally but was simple to patch up. Laos jungle roads are demanding.

elius

I disagree the leaf spring set up on the hilux make it extremly uncomfy on anything thats not like a runway. There also leathal dangerous and are not half as stable on the road compared to the defender.. A freind of mine is running a defender with a 2inch lift and 35 inch tyre and its way more stable than the hilux.. If you ever notice 8 times out of 10 a damaged is rolled..........

twofish101

A friend of mine had a range rover, old type and bought an all bells and whistles HiLux earlier this year (08 model) he finds the hilux very light on the back and it will slide around on a wet road on roundabouts etc, his wife refuses to drive it after getting a scare in the Hilux, he now has about half ton bag of sand in the back to give it reasonable road manners. He had decided to sell the range rover but now has to keep it for his wife to drive. This is my only experience of toyota hilux.

Bearcat

I have the LC VX 4.2 L ......we have 4 had 5 in our extended family......they just go and go......yes expensive but the oldest one we retired at 345k as we just moved up the years....it ended up doing farm work, towing heavy trailers and still doesnt miss a beat.

sparkey1

The Isuzu Trooper is your only man, have mine for years drawing turf from the bog....across grass a lot of offroad work and had no problems......word of warning very heavy on diesel

PaddyThai

The comments above abpout Hiluxes may refer to the newer models. The older Hiluxes mark 1, 2 & 3 are excellent for rough driving and hard work. The newer ones are more for the towny driver.

WestWicklow1

elius wrote: »

The landcruiser was rubbish all it did was spin wheels and try to go side ways the hiluxs was no better

tyres, tyres, tyres.

elius

WestWicklow.com wrote: »

tyres, tyres, tyres.

Agreed but my boss wouldnt go out and buy a half decent set off All terains or muds.. And they sure as hell dont come with them...
My main problem with the land cruiser is its lack of hight there not worth anything in rutted ground..

WestWicklow1

elius wrote: »

Agreed but my boss wouldnt go out and buy a half decent set off All terains or muds.. And they sure as hell dont come with them...
My main problem with the land cruiser is its lack of hight there not worth anything in rutted ground..

Your boss was an ***. A lot of users reckon because a vehicle has 4wd they should do this kind of work. Others simply don't understand and then blame the vehicle. A friend told me last winter that her Rav4 was useless in the snow - totally standard and 2wd!!

I think most 4x4 in standard trim are not what they should be for off road driving. Tyres are the first thing that should be changed after that a 50mm lift can work wonders.

Here's my 3.0L 14 year old Landcruiser that I use when out playing with Leinster 4x4

elius

WestWicklow.com wrote: »

Your boss was an ***. A lot of users reckon because a vehicle has 4wd they should do this kind of work. Others simply don't understand and then blame the vehicle. A friend told me last winter that her Rav4 was useless in the snow - totally standard and 2wd!!

I think most 4x4 in standard trim are not what they should be for off road driving. Tyres are the first thing that should be changed after that a 50mm lift can work wonders.

Here's my 3.0L 14 year old Landcruiser that I use when out playing with Leinster 4x4

To be honest your running insa turbos, There a little extreme for everyday driving to you not think.?. The point im trying to make is a Landrover defender is far better out of the Box 4x4 than any of the last two land cruisers.(present model and model before) yes the cruiser is more comfy but they have lost there way and to me i dont really consider them to be true 4x4.
Like the defender or 70 series cruiser . Even the discovery3 can still be used in the hard stuff Air suspendsion and a host of top notch cadgets to add.. Landrover still works activly to promote Discoverys and rangerovers as off road 4x4. Where the only place you really see the new land cruiser is the odd field an 9 times out of 10 parked on a footpath dropping the kids to school...

BeardyGit

Oh goodie. Time to get some popcorn and sit back to watch the bunfight

WestWicklow1

elius wrote: »

To be honest your running insa turbos, There a little extreme for everyday driving to you not think.?.

Oh yes Special Tracks are not for everyday use. I'm not sure how to came to the conclusion that I was suggesting they be used for that purpose. I simply showed a photo of my LC at the end of my post.

elius wrote: »

The point im trying to make is a Landrover defender is far better out of the Box 4x4 than any of the last two land cruisers. (present model and model before)

I did see your point but you were driving a LC and it was sliding allover the place just for the want of a set of tyres. I agree that the LR is probably more able out of the box than a LC but I'd prefer to spend a few bob on the LC and make it more able than go to the expense of fitting new diffs and shafts in the LR each time they break.

BeardyGit

WestWicklow.com wrote: »

Oh yes Special Tracks are not for everyday use. I'm not sure how to came to the conclusion that I was suggesting they be used for that purpose. I simply showed a photo of my LC at the end of my post.



I did see your point but you were driving a LC and it was sliding allover the place just for the want of a set of tyres. I agree that the LR is probably more able out of the box than a LC but I'd prefer to spend a few bob on the LC and make it more able than go to the expense of fitting new diffs and shafts in the LR each time they break.

A pair of shafts in a Defender axle can be had easily for €100. How much will they cost on the LC? Would that be an arm or a leg?

Also, it's foolish to suggest LR diffs are unreliable - Abuse them and you can break them, but that's no different to anything out there....If you're so inclined, you can have them pegged, but that's hardly worthwhile for the vast majority of users.... that said, how much will an LC diff set you back, versus the 100-150 for a good used one in an LR axle?

Also, fitting things like those Insa's will eventually end up prematurely wearing or breaking parts that wouldn't ordinarily need replacing so soon. Doesn't matter what the badge on the truck says.

Same goes for the lift. If you're going to lift something you need to drive every day for work, you should be looking elsewhere. Offroad toys and offroad working vehicles aren't the same thing. Draw the line and then pick what suits your needs....

If it's something tough as old boots to plug around the farm with, it's unlikely to be anything like the kind of yoke you'd want to be out playing with in the woods that the OP will end up with.

WestWicklow1

Gil_Dub wrote: »

A pair of shafts in a Defender axle can be had easily for €100.

That's because there's such a huge demand for them and dealers are competing on price to get as much market share as they can

Gil_Dub wrote: »

How much will they cost on the LC?

I don't know. I'm on my third LC and have never had to replace one

PaddyThai

Lovely truck there WestWicklow.com.
Not as beautiful as My Hilux 1997 but the LC is a fine working vehicle.
As is the Defender but perhaps not as comfortable on road.

I'll let you guys get back to your debate.

WestWicklow1

PaddyThai wrote: »

Lovely truck there WestWicklow.com.
Not as beautiful as My Hilux 1997 but the LC is a fine working vehicle.

Thanks PaddyThai. Took me a while to find it. Its a 3.0L and they're like hens teeth here and in the UK. I believe there were less than 900 registered in the UK. A very clean SWB can command a price of £3000 - £3500 still. They are so much more powerful than the 2.4L and brilliant off road after just a little bit of work.

k974

where you buy that landcruiser i used to have one of them in ireland yrs ago same colour, 3.0td as well cant remember the reg now except it was a C reg was yrs ago.

landrover v landcruiser, well you know what my money is on $70,000 of it in fact, there is a reason you dont see any landrovers over here in the bush.

besides all that no one has mentioned the obvious difference, most of the difference comes down to the driver a better driver can make an inferior vehicle go further, than an inferior driver in a better vehicle.

CJhaughey

It comes down to the same old story, Developing world TLC rules supreme, due to reliability and build quality, which quite literally can mean life or death.

In the 1st world the LR also has a foothold primarily as an offroad vehicle because the parts backup is available, driveshafts,halfshafts and the like are available ex stock and reasonably priced from European dealers as are a huge range of accessories. This is the only reason that series LR's are still being used.

It's not a case of preferring one over the other, I have had both Series LR's and TLC's and the TLC has no equal for comfort or reliability. 60,70,80 and 90 series are all fine vehicles.
100's and 120 series I reserve judgement on.

fonecrusher1

To be honest if its a very well built vehicle you want its got to be Japanese. Buy a landrover & you will regret it within weeks im afraid.

I own a toyota hilux surf & have gone offroad in it, done some pretty insane stuff & then driven home without a noise or rattle coming from the it. Its my only car so i put a fair bit of mileage on it week in week out & it has yet to even hint at giving me problems.

I have driven a defender & discovery & they are very impressive offroad but i would never buy one. I know people who own landrovers & they're very handy with engines because they need to be to keep up with the frequent problems they develop.

You can usually get a good impression of how good a car is from this website; carsurvey.org. Take a look for yourself.

btw....DO NOT GET A FREELANDER, ITS JUNK & NOT A PROPER OFFROADER!!!

elius

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

I have driven a defender & discovery & they are very impressive offroad but i would never buy one. I know people who own landrovers & they're very handy with engines because they need to be to keep up with the frequent problems they develop.

Bollix there's nothing wrong with any landrover engine's Rover v8 legindary. 200tdi one of the most reliable engine's in the world. TD5 BMW easily tunable to 200bhp. yes buy all means buy a toyota only you will look like any other redneck in the country. Waving at each other like there legindary. When really they think its there neighbour down the road who has the exact same landcruiser :rolleyes:
Yes half shafts break on a landrover break im personaly yet to break one and thats pushing 35s .. So do the injectors and fuel pumps in toyota. Dyna in work 08 40000km €8000 in warrenty work and counting.

fonecrusher1

elius wrote: »

Bollix there's nothing wrong with any landrover engine's Rover v8 legindary. 200tdi one of the most reliable engine's in the world. TD5 BMW easily tunable to 200bhp. yes buy all means buy a toyota only you will look like any other redneck in the country. Waving at each other like there legindary. When really they think its there neighbour down the road who has the exact same landcruiser :rolleyes:
Yes half shafts break on a landrover break im personaly yet to break one and thats pushing 35s .. So do the injectors and fuel pumps in toyota. Dyna in work 08 40000km €8000 in warrenty work and counting. Sorry I dont understand this?

Hey look thats my opinion based on my experiences, no need to get upset dude.
Please dont start saying that Landrovers are better built than Toyota's because thats just bullsh1t.
Im a member of a hilux surf forum & i find it interesting that a lot of other members have owned Land Rovers before they changed over to Toyota. You know why? Because they all couldnt be bothered fixing them after each offroad session.
Why is it you only see Jap 4x4's in the most remote/uninhabitable places on earth?

Btw....you need to take a look at your spelling before you start calling people rednecks!!!;)

Slidey

Ah lads... come on, play nice

Mr.Boots

If you watched Top Gears Hommage to the Defender they made a few interesting points.

The first vehicle 60% of the developing world saw were Defenders
70/75% of all Defenders/series ever bulit are still on the road.

I think that alone speaks volumes about them.
They arnt about comfort...they are about getting a job done
Yes LC's give less trouble but your Lc wont be still around in 20 years where as the Defender probably will be.
Defender is classless.
LC's do have a bit of a red neck image (sorry)

fonecrusher1

Mr.Boots wrote: »

If you watched Top Gears Hommage to the Defender they made a few interesting points.

The first vehicle 60% of the developing world saw were Defenders
70/75% of all Defenders/series ever bulit are still on the road.

I think that alone speaks volumes about them.
They arnt about comfort...they are about getting a job done
Yes LC's give less trouble but your Lc wont be still around in 20 years where as the Defender probably will be.
Defender is classless.
LC's do have a bit of a red neck image (sorry)

No I didnt see that particular episode of Topgear, but i did see the one about the hilux. I found that very interesting.

On your point about the longevity of the Defender, in theory you could keep any vehicle on the road if you constantly replaced its engine & running gear every few years.
I think those percentages are more a reflection of how fixable the Land rovers are. I think if a car is well built it doesnt need to be rebuilt every 10 years.

I dont own a Landcruiser but the accusation that anyone that drives one is a 'red neck' is a bit silly considering how expensive they are!? That just sounds a bit ignorant really.

Which would you trust to take you across a desert? Theres a reason why Toyota's are the dominant 4x4 in places like Australia & Africa.
Take a look at the problem threads in this section & count how many LR's are the car with the fault.:rolleyes:

BeardyGit

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

No I didnt see that particular episode of Topgear, but i did see the one about the hilux. I found that very interesting.

So did I. Pity the current Landcruisers and Hilux are an entirely different machine, and appear to be built for fat builders and their progeny to scoff breakfast rolls and cappo-cheeenos whilst reading their high-brow 'compact' newspapers. Still, I suppose they have a big enough overdraft or line of credit to have overspent on one in the first place, so they might as well enjoy it..... In fact, they can buy whatever they want. Won't stop them being builders/accountants/farmers/estate agents/housewives or even rednecks if that's what they are.

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

On your point about the longevity of the Defender, in theory you could keep any vehicle on the road if you constantly replaced its engine & running gear every few years.

Indeed. Assuming you can easily obtain those parts in the local marketplace. Just how easy is it to pick up replacement panels ready to fit to an older LC here in Ireland? How about second-hand? Not so easy, eh? Now, compare that to an old landrover, of any vintage.... LC's don't come close in this market in terms of availability of parts and spares and certainly not when you factor in price.... I've noticed that Toyota fans are ALWAYS silent when price comes into things. Why is that? 'Rover fans know why.... In any case, reliability is relative - You can't lump 70's and 80's landrovers in with the modern 'rovers and then compare them with only the modern product from the competitor.... Compare like for like and you'll find a 'rover to be just as reliable and probably cheaper to own overall. But you know what, if you like a Toyota, go buy one and be happy. This "My dad would bate your dad" stuff is boring and tiresome.

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

I think those percentages are more a reflection of how fixable the Land rovers are. I think if a car is well built it doesnt need to be rebuilt every 10 years.

The fact of the matter is that a bit of work every ten years can keep a Landrover nice and fresh and certainly improves upon the areas that can cause reliability issues.... But how easy will it be to freshen up a site weary plastic proud landcruiser in 15-20 years?

Tell me, just how easy is it to get replacement panelwork for an old LJ/BJ cruiser? And if you can get them easily, how much will you pay for them? Mad money by comparison.... And we all know the Toyo's like to rot. Does that mean they're better or even worse built? No, they're not the same think as a landrover, and that's the fact everyone seems to want to ignore. This brand competitive crap is just that, crap.

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

I dont own a Landcruiser but the accusation that anyone that drives one is a 'red neck' is a bit silly considering how expensive they are!? That just sounds a bit ignorant really.

It sounds a bit ignorant to think that money keeps folks out of the redneck classification. I've seen a convoy of travellers towing 8 berth caravans in a Range Rover Sport and a brace of Discovery 3's. They are what they are.... And neither vehicle is cheap. Nor is a 'cruiser. Money is money, it's just one factor in ownership and having it doesn't make you better or worse.

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Which would you trust to take you across a desert? Theres a reason why Toyota's are the dominant 4x4 in places like Australia & Africa.

Correct. Market presence. Do me a favour and go look into the difficulties experience by BMC (who owned landrover) through the recession of the late 70's and early 80's. You might then actually understand the reality of market economics and how the Land Rover marque's market presence shrunk drastically as part of the survival of the brand. Time you put that one to rest, as you're only appearing ignorant in reciting it.

And while you're at it, why don't you go have a look into the adoption of the Series followed by the Defender by more than just the British Military. Think military types aren't a bit critical of a vehicle before they place an order? Think again.... Military buy Jap and they buy Landrover, and Pinz, and Sisu and on and on and on.

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Take a look at the problem threads in this section & count how many LR's are the car with the fault.:rolleyes:

This might also be accounted to the fact that there are many, many, many more folk using old landrovers than there are using old landcruisers. Both have their problems, but it's the ignorance in trying to argue one is better than the other that gets my back up. You're just reciting crap you've read elsewhere as some sort of argument. I know I can buy and old landrover and a mechnical or bodywork problem won't leave me bankrupt or off the road for months while I try to find the part..... I wouldn't have that confidence if I was looking at an old LJ/BJ (as much as I'd love one too...)

elius

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

elius wrote: »

Bollix there's nothing wrong with any landrover engine's Rover v8 legindary. 200tdi one of the most reliable engine's in the world. TD5 BMW easily tunable to 200bhp. yes buy all means buy a toyota only you will look like any other redneck in the country. Waving at each other like there legindary. When really they think its there neighbour down the road who has the exact same landcruiser :rolleyes:
Yes half shafts break on a landrover break im personaly yet to break one and thats pushing 35s .. So do the injectors and fuel pumps in toyota. Dyna in work 08 40000km €8000 in warrenty work and counting. Sorry I dont understand this?

Hey look thats my opinion based on my experiences, no need to get upset dude.
Please dont start saying that Landrovers are better built than Toyota's because thats just bullsh1t.
Im a member of a hilux surf forum & i find it interesting that a lot of other members have owned Land Rovers before they changed over to Toyota. You know why? Because they all couldnt be bothered fixing them after each offroad session.
Why is it you only see Jap 4x4's in the most remote/uninhabitable places on earth?

Btw....you need to take a look at your spelling before you start calling people rednecks!!!;)

Must have hit a nerve when you have to resort to personal insults typical :rolleyes:..