Business is stupid

elmoslattery

does anyone agree?
in my opinion NOTHING that is on the leaving cert business course could be applied to ANY real life business situation.

i.e we learn about the charachteristics of entrepreneurs.why would you need to know them? surely you dont read the listof charchteristics,think to your self that you are ruthless,self motivated,are a risk taker etc.,and then deside I SHOULD BE AN ENTREPRENEUR!

The whole course is based around learning lists of irrelevant information...

cormie

A lot of things you learn in school are irrelevant unfortunately. You don't need everything they lead you to believe you need, even the leaving cert itself. I just about passed business studies (D3). I could have got higher if I studied but I was too busy concentrating on my own business

That said, in most cases it's best to just learn and try and do as best as you can with what they give you in the leaving unless you see yourself going a different route. Don't spend too much time getting annoyed about it though as it's unlikely the syllabus will change by exam time

Slow Show

True, so true.
Hence why I'm not taking it.

EU RULES

Its a weird subject. We had an exam and in the exam it asked 'what are the ground for unfair dismissal' I listed like 6 reasons and I didn't get full marks:rolleyes:

I hate the LC, it seems even though there is a marking scheme its very upto the corrector of how they see it.

G_R

elmoslattery wrote: »

does anyone agree?
in my opinion NOTHING that is on the leaving cert business course could be applied to ANY real life business situation.

i.e we learn about the charachteristics of entrepreneurs.why would you need to know them? surely you dont read the listof charchteristics,think to your self that you are ruthless,self motivated,are a risk taker etc.,and then deside I SHOULD BE AN ENTREPRENEUR!

The whole course is based around learning lists of irrelevant information...

not true tbh, a lot of stuff on the course is relevant. What about Contract Law, Employment Rights, Basic Accounting... this is just off the top of my head i'm sure there is more. I always found that Business was one of the most relevant subjects

unknown13

it does help and does give a taste of business areas that could be done in universities and it is very easy marks aswell. things like the consumer acts, EU, basic accounting, basic marketing and industrial relations are nice to know

Busi_Girl08

As the above poster said, some of it is helpful. Some HR stuff is useful for jobs and interviews, Consumer Info Acts and Employee rights stuff can be REALLY useful, and some of the marketing stuff, like brain storming, etc can help you with project work in college.
It's one of the few courses that I found teaches a lot of stuff that can come up in real life. Whatever you venture into as a career in the future, some aspect of Business will come up in it.

But I do agree though, the marking scheme is pants. No way did I get a B3 :mad:

It becomes ALOT more relevant in Uni though.
Except for HR, which, just to warn anyone planning on doing Business, is complete bull.:p

AddictedToYou

Still unsure as to whether I made the right decision taking it. Just rote learning so far, so if I keep on top of it it should be grand. And I think it does have some use in everyday life compared to other subjects.

Kersmash

I do it and absolutely hate it. I only picked it cos it was the best out of a bad bunch in the category of subject choices. It is soul destroying.

Scrambled egg

thats why economics is better.

Daragh101

elmoslattery wrote: »

does anyone agree?
in my opinion NOTHING that is on the leaving cert business course could be applied to ANY real life business situation.

i.e we learn about the charachteristics of entrepreneurs.why would you need to know them? surely you dont read the listof charchteristics,think to your self that you are ruthless,self motivated,are a risk taker etc.,and then deside I SHOULD BE AN ENTREPRENEUR!

The whole course is based around learning lists of irrelevant information...

these are the characteristics that are common between most entrepreneurs so it is relivent!
also insurence, tax, business plans and so on is very much used in real life!

example if an entrepreneur takes too much risk he will more than likly fail. if he doesnt take enough risk he will never succeed!

*giggles*

I do it, and I have to say I really like it. I do it instead of history and I think it's the best decision I ever made.
And it is quite relevant to everyday life. I'll tell you what's not relevant to everyday life: honours maths. Why the hell would you need to know how differentiate or be able to do integration calculus. Unless of course you are John Nash.
Most of the people in my year are doing it so they can do it at third level. Do you call that unnecessary? Some of them even want to be entrepreneurs. The rest are doing it on a points basis. I'm guessing you, OP, are the latter. Now I'm off to learn something valuable for later on in life, Life Assurance. Good day to you.

Making It Bad

They should add a project where you have to set up your own mini business using the "useful" knowledge you have gained to run it, the accounting students can do your accounts!

(Don't take that suggestion too seriously, haha)

*giggles* wrote: »

I'll tell you what's not relevant to everyday life: honours maths. Why the hell would you need to know how differentiate or be able to do integration calculus. Unless of course you are John Nash.

Calculus is one of the most useful things in Maths, it is used all the time in Physics and Engineering. So basically if you find it pointless then this implies you find Physics pointless too, in which case you should probably set fire to the PC your on now as it wouldn't be possible without Physics.

Calculus is what makes roller coasters, made the Lunar Landing possible, makes football stadiums not fall in on themselves and even animate graphics in video games. Saying calculus is useless is one of the most ignorant things I've ever heard.

You know Windows, you know Windows messenger, you know bebo, you know any computer program? Calculus is what powers the algorithms behind them.

*giggles* wrote: »

Most of the people in my year are doing it so they can do it at third level.

Kinda ironic that if Business for LC is so useful that it's not even a requirement to have taken it at LC to do it at third level.

Daragh101

Kinda ironic that if Business for LC is so useful that it's not even a requirement to have taken it at LC to do it at third level.[/quote]

well if your interested in it you would be able to pick it up without too much trouble. its the same as everything really.

and on the maths thing! its only relivent if you hope to get involved in a particular area/course. It has no bearing on everday life etc!

*giggles*

Making It Bad wrote: »

They should add a project where you have to set up your own mini business using the "useful" knowledge you have gained to run it, the accounting students can do your accounts!

(Don't take that suggestion too seriously, haha)



Calculus is one of the most useful things in Maths, it is used all the time in Physics and Engineering. So basically if you find it pointless then this implies you find Physics pointless too, in which case you should probably set fire to the PC your on now as it wouldn't be possible without Physics.

Calculus is what makes roller coasters, made the Lunar Landing possible, makes football stadiums not fall in on themselves and even animate graphics in video games. Saying calculus is useless is one of the most ignorant things I've ever heard.

You know Windows, you know Windows messenger, you know bebo, you know any computer program? Calculus is what powers the algorithms behind them.



Kinda ironic that if Business for LC is so useful that it's not even a requirement to have taken it at LC to do it at third level.

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realise this was a slating match. OK, so maybe calculus wasn't a good example, but really. What is the point in some of the other things they have to learn? I'd say 90% of them won't do an algebraic equation when they leave school.

For some people, the Leaving Certificate will be as far as they go in education, and the things they learn business and other subjects will be most valuable to them.

*giggles*

Daragh101 wrote: »

Kinda ironic that if Business for LC is so useful that it's not even a requirement to have taken it at LC to do it at third level.

well if your interested in it you would be able to pick it up without too much trouble. its the same as everything really.

and on the maths thing! its only relivent if you hope to get involved in a particular area/course. It has no bearing on everday life etc![/quote]


Yeah, that's sorta where this thing is going. All subjects are relevant if you're going to use them as a future career. Who is going to use Shakespearian quote, be able to state the equation for photosynthesis or be able to rhyme off 8 poets and their poems in Irish after school? That's all I'm saying. Everything that is taught in school has some use in life, but maybe not all of us will use it.

Making It Bad

*giggles* wrote: »

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realise this was a slating match. OK, so maybe calculus wasn't a good example, but really. What is the point in some of the other things they have to learn? I'd say 90% of them won't do an algebraic equation when they leave school.

For some people, the Leaving Certificate will be as far as they go in education, and the things they learn business and other subjects will be most valuable to them.

Actually Maths has a lot of indirect applications to everyday life. It helps you think logically and analytically. This is why a lot of graduates in Mathematics or Applied Mathematics often go into areas such as management, stockbroking and so on. While still having more direct applications in areas such as engineering and computing.

The leaving cert isn't designed to teach you about anything directly useful in the workplace, it's supposed to develop basic skills valued there. This is why you have to write things like essays in English: it helps your imagination, it also helps you express yourself in a clear and understandable manor. So while only the author is going to have to write short stories after they leave school that doesn't mean that only the author was the one who benefited from learning how to go about writing them in school.

So while the majority of people will not directly use maths after school they still will have gained the ability to think logically and abstractly through it. This quality is extremely important skill in today's technology dependent society. What skills exactly does business as a leaving cert subject offer? The ability to learn everything by heart without any regard to thought or understanding is the only one I can think of.

elmoslattery

Making It Bad wrote: »

What skills exactly does business as a leaving cert subject offer? The ability to learn everything by heart without any regard to thought or understanding is the only one I can think of.

Yes! thats exactly what i was getting at when i said it was stupid.

jumpguy

This could go on all day. Every subject has it's indirect and direct uses in the 'real world'. You could argue maths, but it's intertwined with physics and that is useful all over the orld. In fairness, if maths wasn't thought there'd be no point in an education system.

Business is one the most obviously relevant subjects in the LC (even though I've only done it at JC level, not LC level). Like in all subjects there's some questionable material, but however a huge chunk of it is good to know.

An irrelevant subject imo is Irish...

dodgystuff

I actually love business, in my opinion, the easiest subject to pick up and the easiest to answer on, a lot of it is common sense.
Its true that a good bit of it isnt relevant to day to day stuff but I still think its a good subject.
My teacher does make it interesting though and applies alot of things we do to everyday situation and tells us stories and gives us great examples that are easy to remember which makes everything easier to understand

AddictedToYou

I had a business test today on Unit 1, and really, once you learn the stuff, which isn't that hard, it's a relatively easy subject and is fairly interesting.

On the relevant/irrelevant subjects debate, we were only talking about this today. A friend was going on about how it's better in England where they take less subjects for their A-levels. Personally though, I think this is worse than taking 7 subjects, because you don't get as much of a rounded education. Like in France, where you go to a specialist senior secondary school depending on what area you wish to go into. It's hard enough to try and make decisions at 18 years of age, but limiting your options when you're even younger than that wouldn't be my thing at all.

And to bring it back on topic, business is not stupid (nor or any other subjects) because who can get a better idea of what you like and don't like, thereby making a more informed decision about your future.

Naikon

Could be worse, Geography is the most useless.

Oh on maths, I did ordinary level and college maths(Computing) is
quite different. Some Algebra skills are useful though for Programming.

Honours maths is not really required for anything other than Engineering.
If you have the ability, why not? Discrete maths is good to learn.

As far as I am concerned, the only important subjects in the leaving
are English and Maths. Don't get me started on religion....

partyatmygaff

Naikon wrote: »

Could be worse, Geography is the most useless.

Oh on maths, I did ordinary level and college maths(Computing) is
quite different. Some Algebra skills are useful though for Programming.

Honours maths is not really required for anything other than Engineering.
If you have the ability, why not? Discrete maths is good to learn.

As far as I am concerned, the only important subjects in the leaving
are English and Maths. Don't get me started on religion....

Nothing wrong with philosphical thinking and learning world religions. Not knowing leads to intolerance and hate crimes. Beisdes its a non exam subject so its not exactly gonna have any bearing on your LC.

The single-handedly most useless subject is Irish. The language itself fine, comprehensions are fine, the oral is a great idea, essay writing is ok but prós and poetry I just do not understand. When will we ever need to analyse some poem in irish from memory in our entire lives? Never. It should be taught like french i.e. conversational and language you will actually use.

Another thing is the damn level of difficulty of chemistry compared to the other sciences. I know its useful and I need it but still its just unbelievably complicated and difficult compared to biology for example.

Daragh101

elmoslattery wrote: »

Yes! thats exactly what i was getting at when i said it was stupid.

its up to you how you learn it.......the same as every subject!....personally i dont learn off at all.....i try to understand it....works too:D

ayumi

that why now their thinking of changing both junior and leaving cert for future generations because they want the student to learn abt the workplace and learn abt things ur going to apply in college and use in daily life

Daragh101

ayumi wrote: »

that why now their thinking of changing both junior and leaving cert for future generations because they want the student to learn abt the workplace and learn abt things ur going to apply in college and use in daily life

well if you do business in college, first year is basically what you did in LC..

what do you think the course is missing, in terms of material?

fkt

elmoslattery wrote: »

does anyone agree?
in my opinion NOTHING that is on the leaving cert business course could be applied to ANY real life business situation.

i.e we learn about the charachteristics of entrepreneurs.why would you need to know them? surely you dont read the listof charchteristics,think to your self that you are ruthless,self motivated,are a risk taker etc.,and then deside I SHOULD BE AN ENTREPRENEUR!

The whole course is based around learning lists of irrelevant information...

And the Irish/English/Maths course is full of important information which we will use regularly in the walk of life? Deary me.

Business is very helpful for people know nothing about consumer rights for example, so even two years of business for the LC, it will give you an idea of what basic rights you have if you have issues with a shop etc. as a consumer. There are most certainly concepts which apply to real life bsuiness.

partyatmygaff

fkt wrote: »

And the Irish/English/Maths course is full of important information which we will use regularly in the walk of life? Deary me.

Business is very helpful for people know nothing about consumer rights for example, so even two years of business for the LC, it will give you an idea of what basic rights you have if you have issues with a shop etc. as a consumer. There are most certainly concepts which apply to real life bsuiness.

The average person who would not know any of their rights or should I say "know their rights" :rolleyes: i.e. I can return anything anytime mentality, They are either the type who does terribly or if they do well just rote learn and after they leave school they just completely forget everthing they've learned.

Irish for daily life

---

No chance in hell
Maths for daily life ---- Depends really what your daily life is like, I doubt you'll be dealing with advanced calculus and the like unless your job relates to it but algebra and geometry can be pretty helpful.
English for daily life - Definitley, Grammar and a powerful ability in your first language is a must. You want to write an amazing unique C.V, Report writing, Professional texts etc you're going to need to know the ins and outs of the language to communicate effectively.

*Might aswell continue*
Chemistry for daily life

---

Em, tough one, definitley if your job revolves around it, If not while its not likely you'll be titrating an acid against a base for whatever weird reason you will have an indepth(-ish) understanding of the world around you.

Biology for daily life

---

Same as chemistry, just replace world with nature and your body

Engineering for daily life

---

Unless you do engineering in university, I can't see myself ever needing to do a non-destructive test on a piece of metal, some of the practical stuff would be useful for DIY and the like.

French(Any euro language) --- Useful if you go travelling, watch foreign films etc

soccymonster

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Irish for daily life

---

No chance in hell

well actually, if you decide to move out to the aran islands ..

*giggles*

soccymonster wrote: »

well actually, if you decide to move out to the aran islands ..

Irish isn't confined to the islands off the West coast. Nearly every time I'm in Galway city, I hear people talking in Irish. Lest us not forget, there is a Gaeltacht in Meath.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaeltacht

And:

Reillyman

Daragh101 wrote: »

and on the maths thing! its only relivent if you hope to get involved in a particular area/course. It has no bearing on everday life etc!

Is that not the same for every subject?

Justifying that business is more practical than maths on the basis that you only need it for a particular area is a failing argument my friend...

DC09

You're just more likely to come across the topics studied in business rather than in LC maths if you go on to pursue neither in college.

No matter where you work, chances are its going to be a business and so some of the things you did in business will be involved.

I think HL Maths is a step too far, its really complex stuff.
I heard only 1 in 5 do it, they should make it slightly easier so that it would be doable for 1 in 3 or at least 1 in 4.
Theres a big gap and thats why lotsof people find Ordinary level a doss.

Daragh101

Reillyman wrote: »

Is that not the same for every subject?

Justifying that business is more practical than maths on the basis that you only need it for a particular area is a failing argument my friend...

well the thread is about how business is not usful outside off school!..People went on to say(including myself) that business is a lot more usful in general life than math is.
my argument is that id say about 10% of people will ever use math again when they leave education. on the other hand you can apply business to lots of things in life when youve left education!..
im not saying math isnt important, just that for most people its not essential in "Life".;)

Daragh101

DC09 wrote: »

You're just more likely to come across the topics studied in business rather than in LC maths if you go on to pursue neither in college.

No matter where you work, chances are its going to be a business and so some of the things you did in business will be involved.

I think HL Maths is a step too far, its really complex stuff.
I heard only 1 in 5 do it, they should make it slightly easier so that it would be doable for 1 in 3 or at least 1 in 4.
Theres a big gap and thats why lotsof people find Ordinary level a doss.

i wouldnt think its 1 in five. more like 1 in 3 or 4

AddictedToYou

Daragh101 wrote: »

i wouldnt think its 1 in five. more like 1 in 3 or 4

Well in 2009,

8,420 took Higher Level maths
37,272 took Ordinary
6,210 took Foundation

A total of 51,902.

Divide that by the number that did Higher Level, and you get 1 in 6.

Reillyman

Daragh101 wrote: »

People went on to say(including myself) that business is a lot more usful in general life than math is.
my argument is that id say about 10% of people will ever use math again when they leave education. on the other hand you can apply business to lots of things in life when youve left education!..
im not saying math isnt important, just that for most people its not essential in "Life".;)

First of all, 100% of people will use Maths again. As to how complex it will be, thats another issue. Almost any science or computing course/career will require use of maths, as will all careers in business, economics etc.

Secondly, (I should have clarified this earlier) I think business is really useful as well, probably one of the most useful in fact.

My main point however is that it's not simply true to say business is more practical than maths due to the fact that not everyone will use it. As <Making It Bad> said,

Actually Maths has a lot of indirect applications to everyday life. It helps you think logically and analytically. This is why a lot of graduates in Mathematics or Applied Mathematics often go into areas such as management, stockbroking and so on. While still having more direct applications in areas such as engineering and computing.

laura93

I love Business, it's one of my favourite subjects It's fairly easy to study for.
A lot of subjects you do aren't going to be relevant to what you do when you finish school. Irish for example is one the majority of people will never use ever again, unless they're going to be a primary school/irish teacher.
When it comes to my subjects, I just learn what I have to learn and that's it :P

Daragh101

Reillyman wrote: »

First of all, 100% of people will use Maths again. As to how complex it will be, thats another issue. Almost any science or computing course/career will require use of maths, as will all careers in business, economics etc.

Secondly, (I should have clarified this earlier) I think business is really useful as well, probably one of the most useful in fact.

My main point however is that it's not simply true to say business is more practical than maths due to the fact that not everyone will use it. As <Making It Bad> said,

lol...im not talking about adding taking away etc.....
a high level of math may be essential for some, however for nearly everyone else basic math willdo!

rgmartin91

Listen, Business is a relatively easy A if you put in a bit of effort, don't complain

Reillyman

Daragh101 wrote: »

a high level of math may be essential for some, however for nearly everyone else basic math willdo!

I presume your counting yourself in "nearly everyone". If so, come back to me in a year or two when your doing detailed forecasted outputs in your business course and tell me its basic:D

TheCandystripes

Someone said English is important lmao. yeah really useful as an anglophone country, learning king lear is really going to help ireland advance in the future:rolleyes:

I say this as a complete retard when it comes to maths that its the only subject really worth anything in the LC. The rest are just a waste of time and there for the sake of it.

barry181091

Business is my best subject. :cool:

Sure its boring and stuff but its totally easy, for me anyway.:p

Regarding Maths...urgg, Just boring and no fun :mad: Same for physics:mad:

partyatmygaff

TheCandystripes wrote: »

Someone said English is important lmao. yeah really useful as an anglophone country, learning king lear is really going to help ireland advance in the future:rolleyes:

I say this as a complete retard when it comes to maths that its the only subject really worth anything in the LC. The rest are just a waste of time and there for the sake of it.

Learning shakespeare isn't just to learn off a bunch of quotes and a ready made answer and just write it all down the minute you see your answer sheet.

It helps you delve deeper into the meaning of what you read or hear. It helps you communicate effectively and know how to decipher the toughest of texts.

That said, I love english so you could say I'm biased.

Daragh101

Reillyman wrote: »

I presume your counting yourself in "nearly everyone". If so, come back to me in a year or two when your doing detailed forecasted outputs in your business course and tell me its basic:D

no not too sure where i stand!

there is no math module on the business course unless you major in risk managment or economics which is in year 2 or 3 me thinks!!

TheCandystripes

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Learning shakespeare isn't just to learn off a bunch of quotes and a ready made answer and just write it all down the minute you see your answer sheet.

It helps you delve deeper into the meaning of what you read or hear. It helps you communicate effectively and know how to decipher the toughest of texts.

That said, I love english so you could say I'm biased.

Ye you could say that.

wolfpawnat

Actually I found it quite helpful, I have quoted the acts on several occasions and it even saved my job. Unfortunately as a teenager you don't need these things, they are being studied at that age to help you later.

whelpy

Could be worse, Geography is the most useless. [ quote by Naikon ]


Well if this global warming thing continues, you'd want to know which countries are less likely to be flooded

Geography is very, very useful. I went to the open day in ucc and saw the lecture for ck404 (environmetal and earth systems science). The list of job opportunies for geog is vast, it even included accountancy.

''can't judge the book by it's cover'' cliched i know :pac:

Daragh101

this thread is ****ing usless i mean what ****ing handicap thinks business is usless. business is great......it makea the world go round..+its so relivant to real life!!!!

thejetset

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Learning shakespeare isn't just to learn off a bunch of quotes and a ready made answer and just write it all down the minute you see your answer sheet.

It helps you delve deeper into the meaning of what you read or hear. It helps you communicate effectively and know how to decipher the toughest of texts.

That said, I love english so you could say I'm biased.

Yes yes, English is good for learning how to critically analyse a text, but what is beyond me is the fact that we have to learn off those quotes. In a modern society where everything is available quickly and easily both online and off, there are very few situations where you will need to remember something. At least remember it for the sake of knowing it offhand rather than repetition causing a person to remember it offhand. I personally would believe that a resource such as the text (or the internet, as Denmark did as reported by BBC News, leaving aside the practicalities) should be made available to us during the exam, though obviously that would still require us to go through any given text a number of times first so you know where everything is and know what's going on in the plot etc..., but we just don't need to waste the headspace with quotes.

In a sense that is one major failing of the LC, it really fails to prepare students for the outside world in a meaningful way. The information is presented to the student and they are expected to know it by next Monday (not literally of course :P) but that's not how modern life works. In real life there are no definitions to be learnt off, and if you need to find one you can look to the internet. That said it is a skill that really needs to be taught because so many people just cannot use a search engine (I was gonna say Google...) effectively. This needs to be taught in school as a basic skill, I suspect it's the most widely used skill in most workplaces and I suspect that spans every industry and all walks of life and will probably do a hell of a lot more for you than learning lines from Shakespeare.

Getting back on topic, I think that some parts of the business course are certainly silly, such as learning the characteristics of an entrepreneur. Knowing the characteristics of an entrepreneur won't help you become an entrepreneur, a kind of they're born not made theory which in my experience is true... you can see a kind of spirit in the people! Although the term entrepreneur is bandied about a lot and has started meaning something it isn't. LCVP and TY business also do that to a huge variety of business "buzz words", lost in translation. But on a whole, knowing what rights you have is a good thing, a foundation level of accounting is always good for budgeting, taxation etc...

Making It Bad

/facepalm

not this **** again

callaway92

I think it is the most relevant subject to our lives actually