Can you admit your bad morals?

Tim Robbins

Hi,
Like most people I eat meat. However, I have read some of moral arguments in favour of not eating meat and I can't see any problems with them. In fact, I think they are compelling.

However, I just couldn't live without eating meat. I can't stand vegetables.
So as a compromise, I'll try and eat free range and cut down on meat in-take.

I'll also concede the moral highgrounds to the veggies on this one and admit they are just stronger than me.

Similarly with Santa, I see bad morality in it. Despite what some of you might think, I don't think I'll be able to be complete Santa atheist( if you know what I mean). I'll certainly not ruin it for other people's kids and I think I'll reach some compromise with my own. Even though I am convinced, the Santa atheists have the moral high ground.

So my question is what do you do that you know to be morally weak but for some reason you just can't do what you think is morally right?

Morlar

Morality and vegetarianism ?

That connection may exsist in the mind of the vegetarian but it is not a general connection. Eating meat is not immoral.

Nevyn

You are human ergo you are flawed get over it.

miec

Setting aside the vegetarianism and believing in Santa, what other 'bad morals' do you have?

liah

The term "morals" is entirely subjective, to be fair.

Some people think it's immoral to be gay, some people think it's immoral to not treat gays equally.

Some people think it's immoral to be polygamous, some people think it's immoral to not allow people freedom of choice.

While you may think that eating meat is immoral, another person may think it's not.

Why bother worrying about it? As long as you're not hurting anyone else, do whatever the hell you please.

Kooli

I do think it's an interesting question!

If we leave aside that each person has different morals, it's about whether I myself do something that goes against my own moral compass. So it actually doesn't matter if someone else doesn't think vegetarianism is immoral. If the OP does, and he still continues with it, then that is the issue being discussed. Same with Santa. If you want to argue about whether Santa is immoral or not, go to that thread!

I have definitely thought of examples of this for myself before, will have to rack my brains...

Astrogeek

I am new to this forum but does the OP mean

So my question is what do you do that you know to be morally weak but for some reason you just can't do what you think is morally right?

is the topic up for debate?

I don't think I do anything I would consider immoral. But just yesterday I managed to eat an entire tub of ice cream because I was so lazy to go and get a bowl. I know I shouldn't do that. But I make sure I don't do it too often and it's not quite as bad.

Dades

liah wrote: »

While you may think that eating meat is immoral, another person may think it's not.

I think the point is Tim believes eating meat to be immoral - but admits to doing it anyway. Given that there is no universal morality you have to kinda limit any response to doing what you feel is immoral.

Besides there are very few things that everyone (who sees this thread) will agree are immoral that you can admit to without getting abuse. Nobody is going to admit to murdering or raping someone.

That said, I drive way too fast in built up areas when the traffic is light. :pac:

NothingMan

I find it very strange that I was not only reading the Santa post earlier and completely agree that while I don't agree with telling kids a santa exists, I would not feel comfortable sending them off to school to tell all the other kids he doesn't exist either.

The reason it is strange is because at lunch I was thinking about the vegetarian issue exactly the way you described it.

I tend to be an outright Meatatarian, and make jokes and slag off my veggie friends all the time. But when I think about it in my own mind I completely agree with vegetarianism based on morality. What right do we have to purposely fo kill and eat another creature now that we have reached a level where there is no need for it? I cannot think one reason why we should have that right, but I love rare fillet steak and will eat it til the cows come home....Or not, because I ate em!

Joey the lips

I never got the meat morality thing. Dont eat meat cause its alive. Plants are alive as well. Its a stupid arguement.

Besides if you were not ment to eat meat they would not have invented the Big Mac:D

Red Hand

Yeah, I'd be the same, Tim. I agree with vegetarianism, and think that it is a noble and a practical way of dealing with a finite and rapidly diminishing environment but can't bring myself to eat only vegetation. I know what I'm doing is wrong...I mean I have a conscience, yet can't bring myself to eat no more meat.

So I guess, it is a compulsion...one that is deep rooted. Would you, OP, or Nothingman be prepared to go into CBT to help you out of your compulsion?:D

Red Hand

Joey the lips wrote: »

I never got the meat morality thing. Dont eat meat cause its alive. Plants are alive as well. Its a stupid arguement.

Besides if you were not ment to eat meat they would not have invented the Big Mac:D

Read into it a bit more. The proteins and fats we take in from animals as food have obviously come from plants originally. Therefore, if you cut out the middleman of eating meat, and get your nutrition directly from plants, you end

1) major source of pollution-methane from ruminants, runoff, BSE etc

2) needless suffering (plants don't have nervous systems)

3) waste in terms of amount of plant material needed for animals to maintain body temp, food thats not digested, etc

and end up with

1) more efficent use of the land we use

2) more efficient use of plant material

Many other reasons other than these, thats all I'll say, cause its off topic.

WeeBushy

Well for starters I disagree with both your examples as I don't necessarily morally have a problem with either, but I guess that's neither here nor there as that's not what you're asking.

Are you asking is there something I know is immoral, but don't have a problem doing? The answer to that is no. But I freely admit to breaking my morals from time to time, I'm human after all.

Tim Robbins

NothingMan wrote: »

Eh..... No. I will hold my opinion of vegetarian morality with a Bacon double cheese burger in one hand and a Chicken club sandwich in the other.

Here's another one of mine, I bought a new mobile phone this year.
I researched the hold coltan thing but couldn't find any company which had a good track record. My last phone broke and I couldn't read the text messages.

A friend in work offered me a very old Nokia but I still bought a new one.

I also don't make an effort to recycle everything, just most of my stuff.

Darlughda

Everytime I walk past someone homeless and suffering on the street, I mumble the usual sorry. (Before the right wingers get on their high horses, yes there are shysters and con-artists out there, but there are way more in a desperate situation.)

Occasionally I give money if I sense the person's pain. I could do a lot more.
I could spend time talking to that person and find out what their individual story is, what practical help I could give them with regard to finding an outreach worker or hostel for them.

Morals are personal, I do believe that. But for me, I have always been acutely aware of the horror of ending up homeless, trying to survive that existence and how much a single person can help. Therefore, I have no excuse when I don't help.

metrovelvet

tim robbins-

No one is or can be morally pure. Between personal and institutionalised sin, there is no way around it.

scanlas

Generally speaking emotions come first, morals second, often rationalized around what's convenient.

How can anyone justify buying a can of coke when that money could have gone to charity or helped the suffering in Africa? Although I suppose you could argue you are helping the economy which could benefit charity somewhere down the line. ( but that's just a rationaliaztion, you were going to buy the can of coke regardless.)

How can anyone justify killing animals and allowing them to suffer in order for you to enjoy the luxury of a nice steak?

I just choose to admit I'm bad, a lot easier than having contrived rationalisations of morality swirling around in your head.

metrovelvet

Why is killing animals bad?

Or is it how they are killed?

Or is it the ick factor, like in fois gras?

scanlas

Why is killing humans bad?

Or is it the way they are killed?

metrovelvet

scanlas wrote: »

Why is killing humans bad?

Or is it the way they are killed?

Some people dont think killing some humans is bad.

ChocolateSauce

scanlas wrote: »

Why is killing humans bad?

Or is it the way they are killed?

Are you implying that it is immoral for one animal to eat another?

Darlughda

Unlike other animals, we, as humans, have a conciousness that enables us to make decisions, to think, to rationalise etc.
Therefore, do we have a responsiblity to be more 'moral' in our choices than animals in the wild?

Tim Robbins

Yeah, the walking past homeless people and beggars is awful. It's as if we dehumanise them. Very sad.

Tim Robbins

metrovelvet wrote: »

Why is killing animals bad?

Or is it how they are killed?

Or is it the ick factor, like in fois gras?

This will just go off on a tangent. If you are interested in the moral arguments of being a vegitarian, check Peter Singer or Colin McGinn.

metrovelvet

Tim Robbins wrote: »

This will just go off on a tangent. If you are interested in the moral arguments of being a vegitarian, check Peter Singer or Colin McGinn.

It's ok. Ive heard it all from my brother who called us all sociopaths last Christmas as we were eating Turkey.

Ive had this argument backwards and forwards.

Dave!

I agree with Tim actually... I've actually thought (and probably posted) about this before, and I find it hard to reconcile my discomfort at the idea of raising animals to be eaten with my "habit" (I guess) of eating the produce that results from it. I guess I just put it out of my mind and don't think about that contradiction.

Kooli

WeeBushy wrote: »

Are you asking is there something I know is immoral, but don't have a problem doing? The answer to that is no. But I freely admit to breaking my morals from time to time, I'm human after all.

I don't think it's about doing something immoral and not having a problem with it - it's about doing something immoral and having a problem with it, but still doing it.

One of mine would be shopping in Penneys or other places that are SO cheap that I know there must be some sort of ethical dubiousness along the line, but I still want cheap stuff.

Similarly with free range chickens. I would never buy anything but free range eggs, but with chicken I will often go for the cheaper option even though I know it's wrong.

Tim Robbins

Don't we all say things about people that we would never say when they are around.

WeeBushy

Kooli wrote: »

I don't think it's about doing something immoral and not having a problem with it - it's about doing something immoral and having a problem with it, but still doing it.

One of mine would be shopping in Penneys or other places that are SO cheap that I know there must be some sort of ethical dubiousness along the line, but I still want cheap stuff.

Similarly with free range chickens. I would never buy anything but free range eggs, but with chicken I will often go for the cheaper option even though I know it's wrong.

Ah right, I get it now.

+1 one buying stuff from Pennys. In fact a lot of companies that have poor history on workers rights. Coca Cola, Adidas, Nike spring to mind but I do still buy their products.

Dave!

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Don't we all say things about people that we would never say when they are around.

I don't think that's necessarily immoral tbh

Bottle_of_Smoke

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I'll also concede the moral highgrounds to the veggies on this one and admit they are just stronger than me.

Vegan's maybe, but not vegetarians. They eat the products of enslaved animals. I see very little if any moral difference between meat eaters and vegetarians.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdcrEo1eCBY

Myself I know its morally wrong to kiss/sleep with girls I have no emotional interest in and are liable to be upset when I don't call them. But it happens.
I justify it to myself by remembering viceversa situations and the girl didn't call me!