Is it no really time to assess how much the irish language costs us all?

murphaph

Interesting piece in the Times. Read it here. Basically Clare county council (like loads of councils in attempting to adhere to the law) spent 30,000 translating 3 development plans about 4 years ago. Not a single copy was ever purchased in Irish. In contrast and for completeness, 190 copies in the English language were bought.

I'm not at all against the Irish language, but are we going about this the right way at all? Would that 30 grand not have been better spent on something else, even on a proven method of enhancing the use of irish (evening classes or something, anything rather than translation expenses for unread documents!).

I am sure the official languages act allows government agencies to dispense with either language. Should they now seriously reconsider what they deem important for translation into Irish? I think they should.

LordSutch

You can add your €30.000 to the €30 million already spent on Translations in Brussles!

http://www.finfacts.ie/irelandbusinessnews/publish/article_10005657.shtml

lmimmfn

i dont care, the irish language is dear to me, you guys might not give a crap but i do coming from a Gaeltacht

While we witchhunt for overspending at least have a bit of respect for our culture.

murphaph

lmimmfn wrote: »

i dont care, the irish language is dear to me, you guys might not give a crap but i do coming from a Gaeltacht

While we witchhunt for overspending at least have a bit of respect for our culture.

Did you not read the story? Nobody bought the development plans in irish. Do you not think the money could be better spent (even on more productive ways to enhance the Irish language) elsewhere? Or are you just giving a kneejerk reaction to my post?

"I don't care that 30 grand (and presumably all the other monies for unread irish translations) was spent on something nobody bought" seems a bit silly when we're in such a serious fiscal position. No?

lmimmfn

murphaph wrote: »

Did you not read the story? Nobody bought the development plans in irish. Do you not think the money could be better spent (even on more productive ways to enhance the Irish language) elsewhere? Or are you just giving a kneejerk reaction to my post?

"I don't care that 30 grand (and presumably all the other monies for unread irish translations) was spent on something nobody bought" seems a bit silly when we're in such a serious fiscal position. No?

no,i did read it, i do care about wastage however this is the second thread on the wastage of the irish language and im getting really tired of it.

Again im all for savings but im all for protecting out language.

pawrick

this does nothing to preserve our language - it just adds to the bad feelings towards it for being a perceived waste of time.

money would have been better spent on sending children to a gaeltacht for a week.

mike65

Its quite obvious that technical documents (that have almost no circulation) translated by force of law are a nonsense. Trouble is (and me laddo above could be a good example) someone will take a court case screaming suppression of cultural rights or some such guff.

30k would have been better spent on fixing a few school roofs/windows.

Robbo

mike65 wrote: »

Its quite obvious that technical documents (that have almost no circulation) translated by force of law are a nonsense. Trouble is (and me laddo above could be a good example) someone will take a court case screaming suppression of cultural rights or some such guff.

30k would have been better spent on fixing a few school roofs/windows.

I call if the Eamonn O'Cuiv school of employment. If you were to suggest that translations of some of the more esoteric documents be available subject to demand, half of his constituents west of Spiddal would be turning up with blazing torches and loys at the ready.

I believe there was a similar story here in Galway with having a development plan translated. This was far more successful in our stronghold of the Irish language. Three copies, I think, were sold.

T runner

murphaph wrote: »

I'm not at all against the Irish language, but are we going about this the right way at all? Would that 30 grand not have been better spent on something else, even on a proven method of enhancing the use of irish (evening classes or something, anything rather than translation expenses for unread documents!).

Unread documents are not the same thing as unbought documents. The articles seem to be available on PDF on the Clare CoCo website.

Its also worth noting that this stat has probably been cherry picked by the author to suit his argument. A fairer view would be the totals that are read by Irish speakers across the juristiction.

30 grand for 3 documents seems excessive? How did they arrive at this figure? There seems to be only one big player in the Irish translation market. Maybe the local authorities have been negotiating bad deals?

I am sure the official languages act allows government agencies to dispense with either language. Should they now seriously reconsider what they deem important for translation into Irish? I think they should

It actually doesnt Ref ( Cuid 3, uimhir 10 ). All public policy documents must be published in both languages simultaneously.

If it were enacted as a regional language then I guess the translation would only become necessary in the regional area. That would require another act and the definition of the regional area which might necessarily include all counties on the western seaboard including Clare.

Camelot wrote: »

You can add your €30.000 to the €30 million already spent on Translations in Brussels!

http://www.finfacts.ie/irelandbusinessnews/publish/article_10005657.shtml

This is normal and as the article shows even Official regional languages must be translated in Europe.

The advantage is that each country only has to translate to its official languages if necessary they do not all have to research and produce 27 or whatever reports.

jimmmy

murphaph wrote: »

Should they now seriously reconsider what they deem important for translation into Irish? I think they should.

Of course. Look at so many govt publications. Even a silly ESB book about saving energy which was delivered to each house a few months ago. Half the book was in bl**dy Irish ! So much money is wasted in this country translating everything in to the Irish language. So many papers involve double the amount of ink, paper + oil used to transport the paper around. There is little or no demand for written Irish. Let those who want it pay for it. See how many papers in the Irish language are sold in your local newsagent ?

murphaph

Does anyone know what section of the Official Languages Act allows one or other language to be left to one side for some purposes? It's in there somewhere as I've seen it posted before.

I accept that the document was probably available for download from the CC website, but given the shoddy broadband provision in Ireland (and I would presume particularly shoddy in more rural areas where we might expect to find higher incidences of Irish speakers) is it not surprising that the document was purchased by 190 people in English, and absolutely none in Irish?

turgon

May I also point out that those who do choose to read or purchase Irish development plans or other such documents are probably able to read the English version too. It really is a debate of pragmatism vs ideology. Not translating development plans wont do anything to harm the Irish language. But ideology always wins out.

Permabear

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T runner

murphaph wrote: »

Does anyone know what section of the Official Languages Act allows one or other language to be left to one side for some purposes? It's in there somewhere as I've seen it posted before.

I accept that the document was probably available for download from the CC website, but given the shoddy broadband provision in Ireland (and I would presume particularly shoddy in more rural areas where we might expect to find higher incidences of Irish speakers) is it not surprising that the document was purchased by 190 people in English, and absolutely none in Irish?

The document would probably be bought by the same corporations/companies year in year out. These would need to have a copy in their office.
If one of these companies happenned to be in a gaeltacht area they would probably buy one of each language. Otherwise they will naturally only buy the English one.

Members of the public who would want check the document (or part of) would more than likely do so on line. The entirety of that document can be downloaded in a few seconds and less than 30 even with the slowest connection.

Any official national language in a European nation will get this treatment for public documentation. The only way to change this is to demote it as a national language and there honestly isnt the support for this in Ireland.

Rebelheart

jimmmy wrote: »

Even a silly ESB book about saving energy which was delivered to each house a few months ago. Half the book was in bl**dy Irish ! So much money is wasted in this country translating everything in to the Irish language. So many papers involve double the amount of ink, paper + oil used to transport the paper around. There is little or no demand for written Irish. Let those who want it pay for it.

"Bloody Irish", is it? This sums up so much about the sort of people on Boards.ie who want want to remove any semblance of status and power from the Irish language in Ireland.

Amazing how so many of the people who are willing (if not keen, in some cases) to have taxpayers' money spent on integrating tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of foreigners in Ireland get all up in arms when a bit of money, a tiny bit of money in comparison, is spent on ensuring that Irish people who speak Irish have at least some of the same rights as English speakers in this country.

How much money has been ploughed into giving English classes in this country to immigrants - free English classes? Classes which are, overwhelmingly, an absurd waste of taxpayers' money as the majority of the people in them only attend as they have to be recorded as present in order to get a work permit. The media doesn't pick on this - it wouldn't be pc - but anybody who has taught English in a language school will attest to this massive waste. This promotion of the English language every day of the week at a far greater cost is acceptable to all these ""practical" people on Boards.ie.

Oh, and how much did the English language version cost to produce? How much have my taxes subsidised the 190 people who have purchased it? To put this story in the bitter (atavistic?) framework of certain people here: how much have English speakers cost me?

The anti-Irish lobby like the above poster are petty beyond words. Narrow, selective, bitter and, at heart, hostile to Irish culture. Were you not hostile, you would see the far, far greater abuses of public finances that occur as a result of the state of Ireland "promoting" the English language in this state. Just to reiterate: the immigrants in question are forced to attend English language classes or else they can be deported/refused permission to stay; English is "rammed" down their throats (to use the emotive language of the anti-Irish brigade), in other words, and my taxes are paying for it.

Permabear

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walshb

pawrick wrote: »

this does nothing to preserve our language - it just adds to the bad feelings towards it for being a perceived waste of time.

money would have been better spent on sending children to a gaeltacht for a week.

Agree fully, I am proud to be Irish, but the language is a dead language and it's time we faced up to it. Barely anyone can string a sentence together; this is the reality, and I would love to be able to speak it, but I can't, and nor do I have the time or energy to learn it. Even if I did, what's the point, as very very few people would be able to communicate with me:)

Throwing money at the language is a waste, a complete waste. We'd be better off learning a language we can actually use here, and abroad, like Chinese or Japanese for example. Who the **** cares if I can speak Irish?

Joey the lips

Personally I would ask that you leave the Irish language alone. I dont speak irish and i think that is the shame. Not that we are spending millions on it.

The govt lobby group has spent a lot of time and energy getting the irish language declared an official language of europe which means your children will only have to learn one other language to get a job in europe. This also has the duel purposes of stopping us look like [EMAIL="a@@holes"]a@@holes[/EMAIL] when an eastern european comes up to us and says " Why you speak no irish"

There is 4 things on boards which annoys the hell out of me and mainly because all the arguements against them(In irish language case) are unfounded and all the arguements in favour of them(Prostitution) are pie in the sky

Rebelheart

"Multiculturalism", anglophone style in Ireland: we will pump tens of millions (at least) into promoting the English language, and accepting cultures and languages from all over the world.

However, this "multiculturalism" does not, and never did, extend to the Irish language and Irish culture. This version of "multiculturalism" is, in its unvarnished reality, a new albeit really weird and illogical dressing on an anti-Irish tradition which has been the foundation stone of the British in Ireland.

Nothing new, in other words.

TheInquisitor

Yes it is completely retarded. I think the optio nshould always be there if an Irish speaker wants the text in Irish then it gets translated. Otherwise there is just no need. It should be done on a demand basis. Usual public sector idiots spending our money like it goes on trees.

whatdoicare

Joey the lips wrote: »

This also has the duel purposes of stopping us look like a@@holes when an eastern european comes up to us and says " Why you speak no irish"

In my whole life and I've done a fair bit of travelling and living abroad have I been asked by anyone "Why you speak no Irish", most countries don't even realise we have a language and lump us in with England. People in Australia, Asia and America think Ireland is in the UK ,ffs!
I can guarantee that people in Eastern Europe don't know or care about our language.

Rebelheart

walshb wrote: »

the language is a dead language and it's time we faced up to it. Barely anyone can string a sentence together; this is the reality.... Throwing money at the language is a waste, a complete waste. We'd be better off learning a language we can actually use here, and abroad, like Chinese or Japanese for example. Who the **** cares if I can speak Irish?

More of the same. You think the language is "dead" so now want to change public policy based on that extraordinarily ill-informed viewpoint. Irish is, evidently unfortunately for you, very much a live language. The places where it is spoken tend to be populated by well educated and independent-minded Irish people. Maybe you need to get a bit upwardly mobile?

I can list a long line of things in this society that are a "complete waste" of taxpayers' money. Only somebody who is profoundly undereducated, or bitterly anti-Irish Ireland like Kevin Myers, could contend that Irish is one of these things.

walshb wrote: »

We'd be better off learning a language we can actually use here, and abroad, like Chinese or Japanese for example. Who the **** cares if I can speak Irish?

Wow. Next time I think about learning a new language I must remember to put a consideration: what will people think of me if I learn this language? What a depressingly shallow reason to do anything.

walshb wrote: »

Barely anyone can string a sentence together; this is the reality.

The day the standard of Irish in this country becomes as sloppy, careless, unsourced and irrational as is that sentence is the day when Irish will be in trouble.

NewDubliner

Rebelheart wrote: »

we will pump tens of millions (at least) into promoting the English language, ...However, this "multiculturalism" does not, and never did, extend to the Irish language and Irish culture. .

Are you saying that no money at all has been spent promoting Irish? That we don't have laws requiring all public services and documents to be be provided in Irish despite the fact that everyone here speaks English? That a whole, expensive government department does not exist to service the demands of the minority of people here, who speak Irish on a daily basis?

Pull the other one.

Permabear

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Sleepy

The scrapping of this sort of thing is quite simply too sensible to ever be implemented by an Irish government.

Joey the lips

whatdoicare wrote: »

In my whole life and I've done a fair bit of travelling and living abroad have I been asked by anyone "Why you speak no Irish", most countries don't even realise we have a language and lump us in with England. People in Australia, Asia and America think Ireland is in the UK ,ffs!
I can guarantee that people in the middle east don't know or care about our language.

You have managed to argue the main reason why irish language is important " National Identity" Well done. I need not say more.

Maith on fear agus go raibh maith agat!

Rebelheart

NewDubliner wrote: »

Are you saying that no money at all has been spent promoting Irish? That we don't have laws requiring all public services and documents to be be provided in Irish despite the fact that everyone here speaks English? That a whole, expensive government department does not exist to service the demands of the minority of people here, who speak Irish on a daily basis?

Pull the other one.

No, I am talking about the "multiculturalism" of the people who are, by disposition, against the Irish language (and Irish Ireland culture generally), but who like to claim to be in favour of Japanese, Chinese and all sorts of other multicultural things.

The reason we have protections for the Irish language has nothing to do with them. This should be very clear. These protections exist because there are genuine multiculturalists in Ireland who see the huge value in the Irish language. It is, moreover, because there is very strong popular support for this. There is also the minor matter of the reality of hundreds of thousands of people speaking the language everyday, of tens of thousands of Irish tax-paying parents sending their children to Irish language schools. And much, much else.

They, whether some people here like it or not, have the same rights in Ireland as English speakers who are ranting and raving against state funding for the Irish language (but quiet as mice about Irish state funding for the English language).

whatdoicare

Joey the lips wrote: »

You have managed to argue the main reason why irish language is important " National Identity" Well done. I need not say more.

Maith on fear agus go raibh maith agat!

Great, now you're calling me a man, well done.
Don't pull that "National Identity" card on me, we've all just given that up to the Lisbon treaty in the hopes they'll pull our A** out of the fire.

Rebelheart

whatdoicare wrote: »

Great, now you're calling me a man, well done.
Don't pull that "National Identity" card on me, we've all just given that up to the Lisbon treaty in the hopes they'll pull our A** out of the fire.

Nonsense. Our culture is being sold every day to the British Premiership (to take a most prominent example) and anything else which comes up on the TV screen. Our identity is another matter. The Lisbon Treaty was one of the smartest things the Irish people have done since joining the EEC/EU.

It brings us closer to the rest of Europe but, moreover, is another step along the road to weakening the myopic world view of certain Irish people, a world view which still, in 2009, revolves around, and is in awe of, Britain and its culture. How blinkered.

This country should be learning from the best states in Europe (and indeed the world). It is far better for Irish society the we become a eurocentric society rather than the suffocatingly anglocentric one which certain Irish people want it to remain. I am proud to be European and Irish. We would be a food-supplying backwater of mother England if some people here had their way.

Rebelheart

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

How much money has been given to English language writers? Why is the state subsidising them? If people like them, they will surely pay them sufficient money to cover the cost of the books without the state giving these writers a handout?

What's sauce for the goose ....

Sand

As DF noted, just repeal the official languages status and you save hundreds of millions a year.

Imagine how many cancer tests could be done on young girls with the money saved? Whats the better part of our national identity? Providing for those tests, or telling the victims of cutbacks they wont be getting taken care of...in Irish. Wont somebody think of the children?

So much of taxpayer money is diverted into utter economic blackholes with no good purpose when actual needs are being hindered.

Permabear

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Kidchameleon

pawrick wrote: »

money would have been better spent on sending children to a gaeltacht for a week.

+1 on this

NewDubliner

Rebelheart wrote: »

No, I am talking about the "multiculturalism" of the people who are, by disposition, against the Irish language (and Irish Ireland culture generally), but who like to claim to be in favour of Japanese, Chinese and all sorts of other multicultural things.

Ah yes, the imaginary enemy who is 'against' Irish. No doubt to qualify as such an 'enemy' you just have to question whether or not money spent on Irish is good value.

Now in addition to the millions wasted on unused services in Irish, way out of proportion to the demand for them, you want a slice of a 'multiculturalism' budget.

Rebelheart wrote: »

There is also the minor matter of the reality of hundreds of thousands of people speaking the language everyday, of

You have great imagination.

Rebelheart wrote: »

tens of thousands of Irish tax-paying parents sending their children to Irish language schools.

That's because the Irish schools are better funded.

Rebelheart wrote: »

And much, much else.

And much, much more money too.

Rebelheart wrote: »

They, whether some people here like it or not, have the same rights in Ireland as English speakers who are ranting and raving against state funding for the Irish language (but quiet as mice about Irish state funding for the English language).

Nobody is 'ranting and raving'. Logical questions are being put about the effective use of money when it is in such short supply. The era of easy money for the Irish language industry is at and. Now it must justify itself. That's entirely rational.

Services are provided in English because that language is spoken by everyone who lives here and therefore, it's the most cost-effective way to deliver them. For the sake of the economy, the Irish lobby should put its ego to one side and accept the minor indignity of communicating with fellow citizens who don't speak Irish, in English.

dlofnep

Sand wrote: »

As DF noted, just repeal the official languages status and you save hundreds of millions a year.

Imagine how many cancer tests could be done on young girls with the money saved? Whats the better part of our national identity? Providing for those tests, or telling the victims of cutbacks they wont be getting taken care of...in Irish. Wont somebody think of the children?

So much of taxpayer money is diverted into utter economic blackholes with no good purpose when actual needs are being hindered.

Blame the Irish language for all the woes in Ireland. How original. Why not aim that at the real causes - shady bankers and shady politicians. Not an ancient and historical language.

The Irish language is a distinct part of our nation, and an as an official language in this country - it must be catered for. It is unique to this Island.

You don't see the Swiss complaining about the 3 or 4 languages in their country. Multilingualism survives just fine. And why is there no complaints about the translations into Polish in this thread? While I personally don't have a problem with Irish or Polish translations, I would like to see a bit of consistency - instead of the same old, anti-Irish brigade.

Now while I agree entirely on "wasted" resources - I think that Irish should be funded, and funded even further. I would like to see an Irish language centre in every major town and city in this country, because as it stands - it's currently only an official language by name.

I speak Irish, and I want documents made available to me in Irish. If you don't like it, create a petition and try and get a referendum going on the issue. I would LOVE to see a referendum run, because I'm 100% certain the Irish people would back and support the Irish language, in an overwhelming manner.

Show me one poll that has ever suggested that this anti-Irish sentiment is from anything more than a small minority in this state. That's right, a small minority. You will in your arse dictate what the majority of the people in this country want. Ask any parent if they would like Gaeilge removed from our curriculum - 9 out of 10 of them will support it, every time.

That's how the cookie crumbles. If you don't like paying tax for Gaeilge, you're more than welcome to move to Britain.. Oh wait, they pay tax for Scottish and Welsh! How about Spain? Nope, they pay taxes for Basque and other minority languages.. Multilingualism is a natural occurance in nearly every country in the world.

Beir bua! Gaeilge abú!

Sleepy

NewDubliner wrote: »

That's because the Irish schools are better funded.

Well, that and a virtual guarantee of 100 free points for the exams that matriculate Irish students for university places...

dlofnep

NewDubliner wrote: »

That's because the Irish schools are better funded.

Nonsense. Our local gaelscoil is a handful of prefabs. They have the reputation for providing excellent education and that reputation is true and valid. It's not because they receive more funds.

Blackjack

Sleepy wrote: »

Well, that and a virtual guarantee of 100 free points for the exams that matriculate Irish students for university places...

proof please

NewDubliner

dlofnep wrote: »

You don't see the Swiss complaining about the 3 or 4 languages in their country.

This would be because significant sections of the country are descended from the relevant ethnicities and
speaks each language as a native language and not as an artificial re-introduction.

dlofnep wrote: »

I would like to see an Irish language centre in every major town and city in this country, because as it stands - it's currently only an official language by name.

If there were a genuine demand for this, the ciiizens of each town would have already accomplished this for themselves.

dlofnep wrote: »

I speak Irish, and I want documents made available to me in Irish.

And if it means a child does not get an essential operation, because the Irish lobby got a budget increase, it's a small sacrifice for Ireland.

dlofnep wrote: »

I'm 100% certain the Irish people would back and support the Irish language, in an overwhelming manner.

That would depend on what question were put to them - e.g, "Will you pay 5% more tax so that all services are available in Irish?"

dlofnep wrote: »

You will in your arse dictate what the majority of the people in this country want.

That's what the Irish language industry is telling the rest of us.

dlofnep wrote: »

If you don't like paying tax for Gaeilge, you're more than welcome to move to Britain..

The question is how much money should be spent? But, I suppose the Irish language industry does not want to negotiate, it's all or nothing?

Joey the lips

whatdoicare wrote: »

Great, now you're calling me a man, well done.
Don't pull that "National Identity" card on me, we've all just given that up to the Lisbon treaty in the hopes they'll pull our A** out of the fire.

Now your just getting daft. Your saying we have no national identity because we voted lisbon and yet your trying to get rid of one of the main thing that identifies us.

There is no discussion to be had with you really.

dlofnep

NewDubliner wrote: »

This would be because significant sections of the country are descended from the relevant ethnicities and
speaks each language as a native language and not as an artificial re-introduction.

I suppose you've never heard of the Gaeltacht.

NewDubliner wrote: »

If there were a genuine demand for this, the ciiizens of each town would have already accomplished this for themselves.

With what exactly, buttons and thread? Belfast and Derry have one - and they both have had great success. But yet, we can't get one in the south when it's already an official language?

NewDubliner wrote: »

And if it means a child does not get an essential operation, because the Irish lobby got a budget increase, it's a small sacrifice for Ireland.

Look, that's a nonsense argument. Funds for Irish are not the problem with our health system. The greedy bankers and the politicians are what has soaked up our wealth. It's stupid to try and associate healthcare problems with Irish language funding.

NewDubliner wrote: »

That would depend on what question were put to them - e.g, "Will you pay 5% more tax so that all services are available in Irish?"

Well, it would be up to you as a campaigner to inform them of the costs of the language - I'm still 100% sure it would pass.

NewDubliner wrote: »

That's what the Irish language industry is telling the rest of us.

No, it's not. That's what the majority of the people in Ireland have told us, time and time again through a myriad of different polls.

NewDubliner wrote: »

The question is how much money should be spent? But, I suppose the Irish language industry does not want to negotiate, it's all or nothing?

Of course there should be a limit on the amount of funding for ANYTHING. I wouldn't like to see funds spent unwisely on stupid things - and I'd much rather that they were spent on actual productive areas within the language.

NewDubliner

dlofnep wrote: »

I suppose you've never heard of the Gaeltacht.

How many people live there and what langauges do they use in their daily lives?

dlofnep wrote: »

With what exactly, buttons and thread? Belfast and Derry have one - and they both have had great success. But yet, we can't get one in the south when it's already an official language?

If people want it badly enough, they'll make it happen. It's not as if forming an Irish-language club or enthusiasts holding conversation classes was forbidden.

dlofnep wrote: »

It's stupid to try and associate healthcare problems with Irish language funding.

It's stupid that the Irish language does not want to engage in discussion of economic priorities. The standard tactic always seems to be: "Why do you Hate Irish?", a sure way to stymie informed debate.

dlofnep wrote: »

Well, it would be up to you as a campaigner to inform them of the costs of the language

What question would you put to the electorate? e.g. 'Do you like Irish?':rolleyes:

dlofnep wrote: »

No, it's not. That's what the majority of the people in Ireland have told us, time and time again through a myriad of different polls.

As I recall it that 'myriad' consisted of a couple of loaded 'boards' polls and one poll, claimed to have been published by the ESRI, which turned out to be a privately funded & published poll (by the Irish lobby) using questions set by... the Irish lobby and then wildly mis-interpreted (by, you guessed it...the Irish langauge lobby), and launched enthusiasticaly by Minsister O'Cuiv (the Dublin 4 Gaelgeior) as it justified the existence of his own department?

dlofnep wrote: »

Of course there should be a limit on the amount of funding for ANYTHING. I wouldn't like to see funds spent unwisely on stupid things - and I'd much rather that they were spent on actual productive areas within the language.

So we can agree on cuts to Irish-language funding and a repeal of the obligation to provide services in Irish?

Sentiment, not money is what preserves out cultural inheritance.

Euro_Kraut

What price would do people put on the preservation of the Irish language?

Some here seem to think that no money what so ever should be spent. I would disagree with that and would suggest it is very much a minority veiw point.

However the money we do spend should be spent wisely. The publication of all county development plans in Irish keeps the Irish language industry going. It is a direct subsidy from the Irish Government to the language industry. As far as subsidies go its seems fairly modest. Could it be better spent in other areas? I am not so sure.

Personally I am torn on this issue. On one had I appreciate that it that this looks like a waste. On the other hand I like the idea that I can apply for a passport in Irish, even if I never do. I like to know that I have the option of reading my county development plan in Irish even though I will never even read it in English. Is this nice feeling worth the money we spend? I am not sure.

cyclopath2001

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

Some here seem to think that no money what so ever should be spent.

Who has proposed that? Which posters said 'no money whatsoever'?

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

It is a direct subsidy from the Irish Government to the language industry.

We need that money for more urgent things. Why not let the private sector provide the service to those who require it? Gaelgeoirs can pay the market rate for a first class Irish translation or accept the more economical English language version. The government could waive any copyright charges on the documents. That'd be a small subsidy.

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

Could it be better spent in other areas? I am not so sure.

There are many, many more deserving areas.

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

On the other hand I like the idea that I can apply for a passport in Irish, even if I never do. I like to know that I have the option of reading my county development plan in Irish even though I will never even read it in English. Is this nice feeling worth the money we spend? I am not sure.

It's nice, but it's a luxury we can no longer afford.

Spending on Irish should not be slashed, just cut back to sensible amounts.

Permabear

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T runner

dlofnep wrote: »

Blame the Irish language for all the woes in Ireland. How original. Why not aim that at the real causes - shady bankers and shady politicians. Not an ancient and historical language.

The Irish language is a distinct part of our nation, and an as an official language in this country - it must be catered for. It is unique to this Island.

You don't see the Swiss complaining about the 3 or 4 languages in their country. Multilingualism survives just fine. And why is there no complaints about the translations into Polish in this thread? While I personally don't have a problem with Irish or Polish translations, I would like to see a bit of consistency - instead of the same old, anti-Irish brigade.

Now while I agree entirely on "wasted" resources - I think that Irish should be funded, and funded even further. I would like to see an Irish language centre in every major town and city in this country, because as it stands - it's currently only an official language by name.

I speak Irish, and I want documents made available to me in Irish. If you don't like it, create a petition and try and get a referendum going on the issue. I would LOVE to see a referendum run, because I'm 100% certain the Irish people would back and support the Irish language, in an overwhelming manner.

Show me one poll that has ever suggested that this anti-Irish sentiment is from anything more than a small minority in this state. That's right, a small minority. You will in your arse dictate what the majority of the people in this country want. Ask any parent if they would like Gaeilge removed from our curriculum - 9 out of 10 of them will support it, every time.

That's how the cookie crumbles. If you don't like paying tax for Gaeilge, you're more than welcome to move to Britain.. Oh wait, they pay tax for Scottish and Welsh! How about Spain? Nope, they pay taxes for Basque and other minority languages.. Multilingualism is a natural occurance in nearly every country in the world.

Beir bua! Gaeilge abú!

Good way of looking at it. The government has spent the money on the official side of things installing it as a national language and implementing the necessaries that go along with this as with other European national (and regional) languages. Work needs now to go ahead on the side of speaking the language more. There is a huge boom in children been educated in Irish speaking schools. There seems to be an eagerness for parents to have their kids learn Irish. They apparently want the language to live on even if they haven't been able to be as proactive in it themselves up till now. (through no fault of our own).

People are getting a lot more grounded and proactive in our new situation although I dont see it too often in my rare visits to this forum. (I work in the public service, too busy dossing in the 2.5 jobs Im covering at the moment).



If certain people have no interest in maintaining the Irish language fair enough. If you feel strong enough that it should be dropped completely I suggest you lobby your local candidates about it at the next general election.
They may explain to you why its a non runner.

I'm meeting a lot of people out, positive people who are getting into Irish and seeing the benefit of having two languages in a country. Its good to see that the people who seemingly are so against seem to use their skills bull****ting on forums and barstools. Long may it continue.

The fact remains that 10 grand is a fierce amount of money to translate a Clare county report. The problem might be a monopoly in the oul translation market.

Funny that this was not picked up by that particular green councilor. Does Clare CoCo get ripped like that in all their business I wonder?

A Dub in Glasgo

murphaph wrote: »

Interesting piece in the Times. Read it here. Basically Clare county council (like loads of councils in attempting to adhere to the law) spent 30,000 translating 3 development plans about 4 years ago. Not a single copy was ever purchased in Irish. In contrast and for completeness, 190 copies in the English language were bought.

Did it cost €30k to translate and print x number of documents (how many)? How much did it cost to print the English language documents and did the council make a profit or a loss on it?

dresden8

lmimmfn wrote: »

i dont care, the irish language is dear to me, you guys might not give a crap but i do coming from a Gaeltacht

While we witchhunt for overspending at least have a bit of respect for our culture.

Why don't you prove you give a crap by getting all your mates on here to buy 30 grands worth of reports in Irish?

A Dub in Glasgo

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

We need that money for more urgent things

Taken to the logical conclusion, we should also shut all the cultural stuff that costs money as it is needed to prop up the banks

whatdoicare

Joey the lips wrote: »

Now your just getting daft. Your saying we have no national identity because we voted lisbon and yet your trying to get rid of one of the main thing that identifies us.

There is no discussion to be had with you really.

We gave up our sovereignty, did we not?

The Irish language doesn't identify us- like I stated before, most other countries don't even realise we have a language other than English or that we are separate from the UK for that matter. Just like Wales has their own language that hardly anyone outside Wales knows about or understands and I'm sure it doesn't make the Scottish any less Scottish now that their native language is gone.
The Irish language isn't the only thing that makes us "Irish" and forcing it down out throats isn't going to make us respect it any more than before.

I don't hate the language, I actually enjoyed learning it when in junior and senior enfants, but really bad memories of stressful points related exams later on made me well and truely dislike it and now I have very little or nothing to do with it.

Yet, I delight in researching Irish history, culture, art, music and folklore- amazing that. So, in the end, if it was really as important as you make out- we'd all just speak it, no forcing necessary.

A Dub in Glasgo

whatdoicare wrote: »

and I'm sure it doesn't make the Scottish any less Scottish now that their native language is gone.
.

Nearly gone but not dead yet. In fact, if you go Hill Walking (or Munro bagging) in Scotland, you will even learn some Scottish!