To the cyclist on Annesley Bridge this morning....

Snapper1

Please please don't go down the left hand side of this when it's stopped at a red and indicating to turn left...



I know its difficult to apportion blame for this one but its more difficult to deal with the consequences.

Ride safe

morninwood

wasn't me. good advise though. that could have ended rather deadly.

thumbs up for you Snapper1

DePurpereWolf

is the picture examplatory, or was it the exact truck.

arybvtcw0eolkf

DePurpereWolf wrote: »

is the picture examplatory, or was it the exact truck.

I think the message is that either, or - your pretty much plump.

.

Snapper1

DePurpereWolf wrote: »

is the picture examplatory, or was it the exact truck.

Picture is exemplary, but was the exact model of vehicle.

A 90degree left turn made for a tight squeeze.

Cyclist had to jump off and hop onto the path.

Lumen

Snapper1 wrote: »

Cyclist had to jump off and hop onto the path.

He certainly needs to practice his bunnyhopping.

cheerspal

I saw two people nearly getting minced yesterday.

One lady cycled out from a path between two stationary cars in traffic and didnt think to look for oncoming traffic. Her head was tilted upwards, like she didnt have a care in the world. A driver had to slam on the breaks to stop hitting her.

Another cyclist was cycling along the path and decided she had enough of the path and turned onto the road without looking. The bus driver hit the breaks and beeped her. She didnt even notice and kept on going.

I am surprised more cyclists are not killed every week. I nearly have a creek in my neck from looking behind all the time!

n-dawg

I take it op that you were the truck driver.

Well done for spotting the cyclist, most drivers dont! And good advice to all cyclists.

mockler007

if you cant see the driver in the mirror, he cant see you,
same with all large vehicles
and to the ladies that dont look where they are going, LOOK
that is all

Redjeep!

I think that this thread illustrates a good point that although there's a flood of new cyclists on the roads there's nobody looking to check that they've got any road sense.

It would be great if there was some way of getting everybody to do some training/ education (not necessarily mandatory) on how to handle situations like the one the OP raised.

I remember in the UK back in 90's there was a huge rise in the number of leisure motocyclists (i.e. Harley owners) and the accident rates amongst them were horrific.

Good thread.

Snapper1 - if you were the driver of the truck, then thank you for taking a positive attitude to this.

cyclopath2001

Snapper1 wrote: »

Why is the truck parked on the wrong side of the road?

niceonetom

Have any of you ever actually said anything advisory to another cyclist?

I'm not talking about a roadside lecture on the importance of adopting the primary road position, but just saying something like "that's not a good idea, yunno." I haven't, but I've been tempted.

Lumen

Redjeep! wrote: »

It would be great if there was some way of getting everybody to do some training/ education (not necessarily mandatory) on how to handle situations like the one the OP raised.

I think between books, the internet and common sense the market is pretty well served.

Captain Havoc

Lumen wrote: »

I think between books, the internet and common sense the market is pretty well served.

and don't forget the cycling section in the rules of the road

thethedev

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

Why is the truck parked on the wrong side of the road?

How relevant:rolleyes:

ROK ON

niceonetom wrote: »

Have any of you ever actually said anything advisory to another cyclist?

I'm not talking about a roadside lecture on the importance of adopting the primary road position, but just saying something like "that's not a good idea, yunno." I haven't, but I've been tempted.

I have. A few months back a cyclist undertook me in a pretty dangerous fashion.
I tailed him then passed him and asked uf he was new to cycling then explained about the danger of undertaking.

He then got abusive and then proceeded thru a red light.

Asi waited I felt so smug.

Mr. Presentable

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

Why is the truck parked on the wrong side of the road?

He's delivering farm machinery in Holland.

Mr. Presentable

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

Why is the truck parked on the wrong side of the road?

He's leaving room for cyclists to undertake him safely.

Captain Havoc

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

Why is the truck parked on the wrong side of the road?

Snapper1 wrote: »

Please please don't go down the left hand side of this when it's stopped at a red and indicating to turn left...



I know its difficult to apportion blame for this one but its more difficult to deal with the consequences.

Ride safe

nipplenuts wrote: »

He's delivering farm machinery in Holland.

Well at least one Crouch can deliver in Holland

Jersey picks up coat and leaves. Sorry to the non soccer followers here.

cyclopath2001

Snapper1 wrote: »

Picture is exemplary, but was the exact model of vehicle.
A 90degree left turn made for a tight squeeze.
Cyclist had to jump off and hop onto the path.

It's a junction that has had a tragic fatality in the past & it's incomprehensible why Dublin City Council removed the legally-mandated road sign that advises motorists of the commencement of a cycle track at that location.

When moving off or changing lane, a vehicle must give way to vehicles already moving in the other lane. The use of an indicator does not confer 'right-of way'. The stopped or lane changing vehicle must wait until the way is clear.

For practical reasons, it's certainly not wise to go up the inside of a truck.

From the information provided, it appears that the truck was stopped beside a cycle track/lane. It is permitted by law to overtake stopped and slow-moving vehicles on the inside. A cyclist was travelling in the cycle lane provided for that purpose. The truck driver then moved off, failing to give way to traffic in the lane he was crossing, forcing the cyclist to bail out onto the path. If the driver was unable able to verify that his way was clear, he should not have moved his vehicle.

thethedev

What do you expect him to do?
Sit there all day?
A bit of courtesy and common sense from the particular cyclist in question would have been good.
Do you know the the massive blind spots that trucks have?
If the truck indicated well in advance, and left enough time for any traffic he could'nt see to be cleared then the cyclist is entirely at fault. Not under the eyes of the law but at fault none the less for being a moron.
Its pricks like him that give cyclists a bad name.

Victor

Snapper1 wrote: »

Please please don't go down the left hand side of this when it's stopped at a red and indicating to turn left...

Would such a turn be legal?

cyclopath2001

thethedev wrote: »

What do you expect him to do?
Sit there all day?

If he cannot see where he is going, he should not move. Safety is a higher priority than convenience.

thethedev wrote: »

Do you know the the massive blind spots that trucks have?

Yes. It's questionable that such vehicles should be allowed mingle with normal traffic. If the driver of the vehicle was aware that he had dangerous blind spots, he should have sought Garda assistance.

thethedev wrote: »

Its pricks like him that give cyclists a bad name.

The cyclist was probably expecting the driver to wait until the cycle lane was clear of traffic. He may not have been aware of the defect in the drivers visibility.

That hardly makes him a 'prick' or a 'moron'. It merely makes him unwise. Such terms should be reserved for people who deliberately break road traffic laws.

Redjeep!

Lumen wrote: »

I think between books, the internet and common sense the market is pretty well served.

Shame it doesn't seem to be working then does it ?

I also feel that it would be helpful to educate motorists why cyclists do certain things that seem illogical/ selfish/ stupid to them. As for the rules of the road - don't make me laugh !

Mr. Presentable

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

. It is permitted by law to overtake stopped and slow-moving vehicles on the inside. .

I'm sorry, but the fact that it is not illegal does not make it right. Only a child or a moron would go up the inside of a truck - especially one indicating across their path.

Lumen

nipplenuts wrote: »

Only a child or a moron would go up the inside of a truck - especially one indicating across their path.

If you don't feel confident timing an undertake that's your business, but there are plenty of opportunities to execute this manoeuvre perfectly safely.

Mr. Presentable

Lumen wrote: »

If you don't feel confident timing an undertake that's your business, but there are plenty of opportunities to execute this manoeuvre perfectly safely.

Agreed, but we're talking about a specific circumstance.

tomasrojo

I always find it bizarre that whatever funds are available for public information on cycling are always spent on helmet and hi-viz promotion. I don't think I've ever seen anyting from the local authorities or government warning cyclists about going up the inside of large vehicles.

Since that manoeuvre is the cause of 70% of urban cycling deaths, it's a screamingly obvious target for public information campaigns.

Lumen

tomasrojo wrote: »

I don't think I've ever seen anyting from the local authorities or government warning cyclists about going up the inside of large vehicles...Since that manoeuvre is the cause of 70% of urban cycling deaths

I don't remember anyone linking to this before.

Appears to have been put together by Robert Fitzsimons. Anyone know him, or how complete this listing is?

cosman9373

Lumen wrote: »

I don't remember anyone linking to this before.

Appears to have been put together by Robert Fitzsimons. Anyone know him, or how complete this listing is?

what an in depth list, there's even a 'shot while cycling' soon we'll all be wearing bullet proofs as base layers. personally I don't think it's safe cycling without it!!

Lumen

cosman9373 wrote: »

what an in depth list, there's even a 'shot while cycling' soon we'll all be wearing bullet proofs as base layers. personally I don't think it's safe cycling without it!!

I just thought the list looked a bit short. If Irish deaths by cycling are in single digits per year, I think the risks barely warrant discussion, let alone some kind of mass public education campaign.

tomasrojo

Lumen wrote: »

I don't remember anyone linking to this before.

Appears to have been put together by Robert Fitzsimons. Anyone know him, or how complete this listing is?

I linked to that before, when someone was implying that cyclist deaths had shot up recently.

I think he posts here as @robfitz.

tomasrojo

Lumen wrote: »

I just thought the list looked a bit short. If Irish deaths by cycling are in single digits per year, I think the risks barely warrant discussion, let alone some kind of mass public education campaign.

Yes, cyclist deaths are about a dozen a year in Ireland. Cycling is nowhere as dangerous as most people imagine.

So you may have a point: safety campaigns make people think cycling is dangerous. However, a non-hysterical ad to advise cyclists not to pass on the inside of large vehicles might be ok. Certainly, the fact that it's such a huge percentage of deaths suggests to me that it's worth tackling.

cdaly_

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

If he cannot see where he is going, he should not move. Safety is a higher priority than convenience.

The difficulty here is that a truck has blind spots. However, these blind spots exist primarily when the truck is stopped. While moving, the driver can infer the absence of other vehicles in the blind spot simply by observing the visible areas and movement into and out of blind spots.

When the truck is stopped at a traffic light, there is no longer the proper visual cues to infer such an absence of vehicles / peds and the driver must cope. Small footprint vehicles can easily enter and occupy such a blind spot unobserved.

Yes. It's questionable that such vehicles should be allowed mingle with normal traffic. If the driver of the vehicle was aware that he had dangerous blind spots, he should have sought Garda assistance.

Unfortunately, such vehicles are allowed mingle with ordinary traffic. Doubly unfortunately, there are insufficient Garda resources to permit an escort for each such vehicle in the country.

Lumen

tomasrojo wrote: »

Yes, cyclist deaths are about a dozen a year in Ireland. Cycling is nowhere as dangerous as most people imagine.

So you may have a point: safety campaigns make people think cycling is dangerous. However, a non-hysterical ad to advise cyclists not to pass on the inside of large vehicles might be ok. Certainly, the fact that it's such a huge percentage of deaths suggests to me that it's worth tackling.

My vote goes for electronic billboards placed atop traffic lights along the main urban commuting routes, which activate when there's a red light.

Road safety tips could be alternated with images from Copenhagen Cycle Chic, thus helping improve the safety and stylishness of the city's residents.

Captain Havoc

Do not take up a position on the 'inside' of a large vehicle out of view of the driver. Instead, stay behind if the large vehicle has stopped at a junction with the intention of turning left

from the rules of the road.

Vélo

cosman9373 wrote: »

what an in depth list, there's even a 'shot while cycling' soon we'll all be wearing bullet proofs as base layers. personally I don't think it's safe cycling without it!!

There's also one Bicycle V Cat.


Before anyone posts, I know it's more than likely a typo

Captain Havoc

Vélo wrote: »

There's also one Bicycle V Cat.


Before anyone posts, I know it's more than likely a typo

No typos. The man was gunned down and the other guy did hit a cat.

cosman9373

Vélo wrote: »

There's also one Bicycle V Cat.


Before anyone posts, I know it's more than likely a typo

I can't believe the cat won!!

NewDubliner

jerseyeire wrote: »

from the rules of the road.

Thats good advice.

Isn't there also a bit about not moving your vehicle if you cannot see where it is going?

Ant

Lumen wrote: »

I don't remember anyone linking to this before.

Appears to have been put together by Robert Fitzsimons. Anyone know him, or how complete this listing is?

I used to know him from the days when I was active in the Dublin Cycling Campaign. He's a sound guy and I found him to be both thorough and reliable. I'd imagine that his list is fairly accurate and complete - though like the rest of us, he's not infallible. (I've also noticed that he has posted on this forum a few times in the past.)

daymobrew

ROK ON wrote: »

I have. A few months back a cyclist undertook me in a pretty dangerous fashion.
I tailed him then passed him and asked uf he was new to cycling then explained about the danger of undertaking.

He then got abusive and then proceeded thru a red light.

I've only ever spoken to cyclists while I was cycling too, mainly about them breaking red lights. The reaction always is the same - tons of verbal abuse.

I recently called a cyclist an "idiot" for cycling the wrong way on the wrong side of the road in front of a roundabout entrance. As I cycled off he be asked me to come to him to repeat my description at a closer proximity, presumably for a thorough discussion of the incident. I declined.

Canis Lupus

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

Why is the truck parked on the wrong side of the road?

Since when is it illegal or weird to park on the wrong side of the road? Actually when you're parking what's the wrong side?

EH?

EH? Mr smarty pants? (jk)

cyclopath2001

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Since when is it illegal or weird to park on the wrong side of the road? Actually when you're parking what's the wrong side?

1: In Ireland vehicles must be driven on the left - how is it possible to park on the right without crossing over onto the incorrect side of the road and driving on the right?

2: It is illegal to park in way that is unsafe for others or which interferes with the normal flow of traffic. At night, when moving away from a right-hand position, this would mean initiatally driving on the incorrect side of the road with headlamps full-on into the face of oncoming traffic. That's certainly unsafe.

In the case of the track that was illustrated, it's a narrow country road and the truck occupies nearly the entire width of a driving lane, most definitely interfering with normal traffic flow and potentially causing a hazard by forcing traffic to cross over into the path of oncoming vehicles...illegal whether on the left or the right.

Lumen

daymobrew wrote: »

I recently called a cyclist an "idiot" for cycling the wrong way on the wrong side of the road in front of a roundabout entrance. As I cycled off he be asked me to come to him to repeat my description at a closer proximity, presumably for a thorough discussion of the incident. I declined.

I've occasionally heard the view expressed that drivers would behave better towards each other if they were not separated by layers of metal and glass and could communicate in conventional fashion.

I think this story belies that belief.

daymobrew

Lumen wrote: »

I've occasionally heard the view expressed that drivers would behave better towards each other if they were not separated by layers of metal and glass and could communicate in conventional fashion.

I think some driving school in the US had cars without doors. IIRC they visited schools rather than used them on the open road.

Captain Havoc

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

1: In Ireland vehicles must be driven on the left - how is it possible to park on the right without crossing over onto the incorrect side of the road and driving on the right?

2: It is illegal to park in way that is unsafe for others or which interferes with the normal flow of traffic. At night, when moving away from a right-hand position, this would mean initiatally driving on the incorrect side of the road with headlamps full-on into the face of oncoming traffic. That's certainly unsafe.

In the case of the track that was illustrated, it's a narrow country road and the truck occupies nearly the entire width of a driving lane, most definitely interfering with normal traffic flow and potentially causing a hazard by forcing traffic to cross over into the path of oncoming vehicles...illegal whether on the left or the right.

Are you happy now?

cyclopath2001

jerseyeire wrote: »

Are you happy now?

No matter which way you look at it, he's causing an obstruction.

Bunnyhopper

@Canis Lupus IIRC it's illegal in the UK to park at night facing oncoming traffic, unless you're in a designated parking space. Something like that, anyway.

Whether or not there's an equivalent rule here I don't know: I had a quick google but couldn't find anything. Might be what cyclopath2001 has in mind though.

Beasty

Bunnyhopper wrote: »

@Canis Lupus IIRC it's illegal in the UK to park at night facing oncoming traffic, unless you're in a designated parking space. Something like that, anyway.

Whether or not there's an equivalent rule here I don't know: I had a quick google but couldn't find anything. Might be what cyclopath2001 has in mind though.

I think it's only illegal in the UK if you do not have parking lights on.
EDIT - you are right Bunnyhopper. It is illegal to park at night facing oncoming traffic, unless in a designated parking space. Parking lights are required when parking at night on roads with a speed limit of over 30mph.

daymobrew

jerseyeire wrote: »

Are you happy now?

No, he doesn't appear to have his "I'm a hazard" lights on.