Another reason to eat unprocessed food.

El_Dangeroso

Came across this study this morning:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18178378?ordinalpos=4&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

The abstract startled me. I'd always known MSG was a bad idea for the people who were sensitive to it but I hadn't seen any research that was too damning of it.

Monosodium glutamate (MSG): a villain and promoter of liver inflammation and dysplasia.
Nakanishi Y, Tsuneyama K, Fujimoto M, Salunga TL, Nomoto K, An JL, Takano Y, Iizuka S, Nagata M, Suzuki W, Shimada T, Aburada M, Nakano M, Selmi C, Gershwin ME.

Department of Diagnostic Pathology, Graduate School of Medicine and Pharmaceutical Sciences, University of Toyama, Toyama, Japan.

Chronic inflammation is a common theme in a variety of disease pathways, including autoimmune diseases. The pathways of chronic inflammation are well illustrated by nonalcoholic steatohepatitis (NASH), which is of a serious concern due to its increasing prevalence in the westernized world and its direct correlation with lifestyle factors, particularly diet. Importantly, NASH may ultimately lead to the development of hepatocellular carcinoma. We previously reported that injection of monosodium glutamate (MSG) in ICR mice leads to the development of significant inflammation, central obesity, and type 2 diabetes. To directly address the long-term consequences of MSG on inflammation, we have performed serial analysis of MSG-injected mice and focused in particular on liver pathology. By 6 and 12 months of age, all MSG-treated mice developed NAFLD and NASH-like histology, respectively. In particular, the murine steatohepatitis at 12 months was virtually undistinguishable from human NASH. Further, dysplastic nodular lesions were detected in some cases within the fibrotic liver parenchyma. We submit that MSG treatment of mice induces obesity and diabetes with steatosis and steatohepatitis resembling human NAFLD and NASH with pre-neoplastic lesions. These results take on considerable significance in light of the widespread usage of dietary MSG and we suggest that MSG should have its safety profile re-examined and be potentially withdrawn from the food chain.

I know that mice aren't furry little humans but this is justification for me to avoid added MSG all the more.

Pembily

That is shocking, I dont eat it anyway but definately won't be ever again!!!

ya-what-now?

God that is awful.

Does anyone have a good list of foods that would have MSG that we might not be aware of?

Pembily

Very Americanised but seems to be true

http://www.msgtruth.org/avoid.htm

El_Dangeroso

I think stock cubes are probably the most common ones that people would consume without knowing.

Just checked my cupboard and Marigold brand vegan organic stock and the 'Just Bullion' range have no MSG.

Pembily

Yup, generally Just Boullion don't have MSG, they are wheat and yeast free too!!!:D

Khannie

I dunno about you, but I don't inject my MSG.

El_Dangeroso

Khannie wrote: »

I dunno about you, but I don't inject my MSG.

Really? All the cool kids are doing it..:pac:

Khannie

Temple_Grandin wrote: »

Really? All the cool kids are doing it..:pac:

I'm cool! I'm cool!

*injects MSG*

mloc

No doubt that MSG does not promote health, but I'm not certain about this publication.

The model here is using injected MSG in neonate mice, not a very useful model when it comes to measuring nutritional response in humans. It's a little bit of "Under certain conditions, in a particular animal model, X is correlated with a rise in Y" becoming "X kills people".

El_Dangeroso

mloc wrote: »

No doubt that MSG does not promote health, but I'm not certain about this publication.

The model here is using injected MSG in neonate mice, not a very useful model when it comes to measuring nutritional response in humans. It's a little bit of "Under certain conditions, in a particular animal model, X is correlated with a rise in Y" becoming "X kills people".

Absolutely agreed, you can't extrapolate this to humans too easy no more than you can a cohort study. MSG is present in lots of natural foods in small amounts so I think its the large quantity taken out of it's original context that's the issue. Same deal with fructose, small amount in fruit ok but loads of it in a fizzy drink can eventually cause non-alcoholic fatty liver, in mice and humans.

Cadiz

Is it still the case that most Chinese takeaways use MSG? I have read that unless they state otherwise on their menus Chinese takeaway food contains MSG.

But perhaps I'm misinformed?

Knorr stockcubes contain MSG

El_Dangeroso

Yeah most chinese's add it unless stated otherwise. I bought a big bag of it in a chinese food store once. It just tastes exactly like chow mein sauce in powder form..drool

Looking back though it was not the smartest idea to be licking something out of a big unmarked bag of white powder sitting on the car seat beside me..

corkcomp

on the topic of MSG, personally I am undecided about whether it is actually harmful or not, however, as somebody who is allergic to MSG i can say you will definately know if you are allergic to it as the SEVERE sore throat is agony !!

lizzyvera

What about MSG naturally in foods like cheese, marmite, soy sauce? It's identical to the stuff the extract from yeast. You can't eliminate it from the food chain, it's in too many things. An Italian meal could well have more MSG than a chinese meal with added MSG.

If you inject large quanitities of any chemical you'll get different effects to what would happen if you ate a small amount. MSG dissociates in water to give sodium and glutamate. The glutamate part is the part you can taste. You actually can't live without glutamate- it's an important neurotransmitter. Eating a lot could cause problems, I can't see why it wouldn't excite nerves, but I've never read a good study on it.

I think people are unduly suspicious of MSG because it's commonly called by its chemical name. It's still naturally derived from fermentation, it's just like calling table salt NaCl.
Here's a list of naturally glutamate rich foods that people have eaten for centuries with no reported side effects.

Free Glutamate Levels of Certain Foods (in mgs per 100 grams)
Kelp (Kombu) up to 3200
Nori Seaweed 1400
Parmigianino Reggiano (parmesan) 1200
Soy sauce 800 – 1100
Vegemite 1400
Marmite 1900
Fish Sauce 950
Oyster sauce 900
Green Tea 668
Cured has 340
Tomato 246

I noticed a friend of mine who claims to be sensitive to MSG eating marmite with no side effects recently- she's actually just sensitive to eating 4,000kcal of deep fried crap from the takeaway in one sitting.

El_Dangeroso

Hi Lizzy,

See my comment above, it is present in natural foods but it's the large quantity in a non-natural context that seems to be the issue.

Generally speaking I think the worst thing MSG does to non-allergic individuals is make them eat more than they normally would. The researchers in the above paper didn't propose a mechanism but that could be it.

It would explain the oddly addictive nature of cheese..:)

lizzyvera

Temple_Grandin wrote: »

Hi Lizzy,

See my comment above, it is present in natural foods but it's the large quantity in a non-natural context that seems to be the issue.

Generally speaking I think the worst thing MSG does to non-allergic individuals is make them eat more than they normally would. The researchers in the above paper didn't propose a mechanism but that could be it.

It would explain the oddly addictive nature of cheese..:)

You could add msg to plain broccoli soup and make it so delicious you drink the whole pot. That's what I used to do unknowingly with half a stock cube. Of course you're more likely to go for seconds if it tastes nice! I don't think "addictive" is the word though, I like and overindulge in lots of things but "addicted" is not the right word.

There isn't necessarily more msg in foods with added msg than in meals made with msg rich ingredients, like a lasagne with condensed tomato paste and parmesan, or sushi (rice wrapped in seaweed).

El_Dangeroso

lizzyvera wrote: »

There isn't necessarily more msg in foods with added msg than in meals made with msg rich ingredients, like a lasagne with condensed tomato paste and parmesan, or sushi (rice wrapped in seaweed).

Actually there is. The amounts of MSG in natural food are much smaller than in processed food. Hence people who are allergic to MSG don't get nearly the same reaction from natural foods as they do from when it is used as an additive.