Drilled air nozzle

Growler!!!

Hi all,

Thanks to Richies guide in the current Take Aim mag, I decided to fit a new barrel and hop-up to my DBoys M4.

Ordered said barrel and hop-up from Airsofteire – super fast delivery thanks lads.

Took 15 mins to fit – now for the problem:

I found that the Air Nozzle has been drilled………. FPS was hanging around the 280 mark consistently.
Basically I’m looking for advice on how to put a fix in place. Obviously it was drilled to reduce the fps. I’m worried that if I fit a new air nozzle or re seal it will the fps put me over the limit (plus a tightbore barrel)?

Will the botched air nozzle tear up the new hop-up rubber?

Cheers in advance

Leftyflip

Growler!!! wrote: »

Hi all,

Thanks to Richies guide in the current Take Aim mag, I decided to fit a new barrel and hop-up to my DBoys M4.

Ordered said barrel and hop-up from Airsofteire – super fast delivery thanks lads.

Took 15 mins to fit – now for the problem:

I found that the Air Nozzle has been drilled………. FPS was hanging around the 280 mark consistently.
Basically I’m looking for advice on how to put a fix in place. Obviously it was drilled to reduce the fps. I’m worried that if I fit a new air nozzle or re seal it will the fps put me over the limit (plus a tightbore barrel)?

Will the botched air nozzle tear up the new hop-up rubber?

Cheers in advance

It will cause the fps to increase, but it shouldn't put it over the limit. And the air nozzle shouldn't tear up the hop rubber.

Firekitten

Well firstly, the barrel and hop should improve performance anyway... nevermind the drilled Air nozzle.... THough i'd be interested to find out what muppet did that to a perfectly good gun...

Frankly, at 280, the hop and bvarrel wont put you over... however, drilling the nozzle is a way some amaeurs use to downgrade a gun, (There IS a drilling method thats right, but not that one!) It provides inconsistent air flow, and causes the nozzle to break in time. Although it will not tear or break the hop rubber, because it doenst 'ACTUALLY' go into it... it will sit at the end of the rubber, where O ring at the end of the hop is at furthest extension.

My advice? replace the nozzle, and get yourself a new spring, probably an m90 at the same time, the end result ought to leave you roughly at 320fps.

Puding

the drilling of the nozzle is a lazy form of downgrading, i would replace the nozzle and downgrade the spring correctly this will increase rof and improve consitancy, adding a tight bore and improved bucking and having a hole in the nozzle is a little counter productive

Stercus Accidit

A drilled nozzle would indicate the gun was over the limit to begin with, replacing it will likely bring it over the limit again. As above, new nozzle and new ms90 spring.

TNTQ

Does your AEG shoot straight? Agree with Puding. Replace nozzle and downgrade spring.

In your place I'll go to the retailer and ask him to do it.

Growler!!!

Thanks for all that,

It was the first time i've taken the inards apart. Thats why i was annoyed to find after fitting the tightbore barrel to improve accuracy that the nozzle was mangled!!!

Right so, next shopping list will include a m90 spring and new Nozzle.
Are the nozzles a standard fit?

With the gear box in bits should i replace the bearings if the rof will be increased?

I'm glad to hear the new hop-up wont be ruined, i can still skirmish with it........

Thanks again all.

Growler!!!

TNTQ wrote: »

Does your AEG shoot straight? Agree with Puding. Replace nozzle and downgrade spring.

In your place I'll go to the retailer and ask him to do it.

Hehe it shoots a bit left but thats my excuse. I've been getting away with it up to now:D.

If i dont get a chance to fix it myself i'll let puding fix it in his container of knowledge in SAC-C.

Firekitten

Growler!!! wrote: »

Thanks for all that,

It was the first time i've taken the inards apart. Thats why i was annoyed to find after fitting the tightbore barrel to improve accuracy that the nozzle was mangled!!!

Right so, next shopping list will include a m90 spring and new Nozzle.
Are the nozzles a standard fit?

With the gear box in bits should i replace the bearings if the rof will be increased?

I'm glad to hear the new hop-up wont be ruined, i can still skirmish with it........

Thanks again all.

Yep, good idea, give it to pudding Its fun to watch him slave away in his container :P

you'll want a nozzle for the m4, m90 spring,
Frankly the rate of fire may increase with a lower power spring, but it wont be enough to need new ones, the dboys ones are metal anyway... so it will be fine.

TNTQ

If you are inside gearbox, replace as many parts as possible (save you time and money). I would recomend to replace bushings for Ball Bearings (you should be able to fit 7mm Ball Bearings). Also piston and Pistong head with Ball Bearings and spring guide with ball bearings.

Firekitten

TNTQ wrote: »

If you are inside gearbox, replace as many parts as possible (save you time and money). I would recomend to replace bushings for Ball Bearings (you should be able to fit 7mm Ball Bearings). Also piston and Pistong head with Ball Bearings and spring guide with ball bearings.

Only if he wants to... frankly, it doesnt all need to be changed in one go. to get it working right, the nozzle and spring are what he needs. I'm not a fan of bearing races... some of them have a tendancy to break, and you end up with gears eating ball bearings = not cool.

TNTQ

I recomend using better ball bearings next time. Besides with spring M90 inside Ball Bearings will have to be made of paper to break.

Firekitten

TNTQ wrote: »

I recomend using better ball bearings next time. Besides with spring M90 inside Ball Bearings will have to be made of paper to break.

In the gun I dealt with, they were systemas in a 1j gun. Accidents happen, and it caused a whole mess of damage inside when it went (only one)
Its happened on numerous guns, and numerous times, the common denominator im not sure... all seemed to fire fine then go, usually after extended periods of automatic fire. Solid ceramic bushings i prefer personally.

Recomend knowing more about what you're talking about next time before jumping in and saying things are crap.

ED E

Puding wrote: »

the drilling of the nozzle is a lazy form of downgrading, i would replace the nozzle and downgrade the spring correctly this will increase rof and improve consitancy, adding a tight bore and improved bucking and having a hole in the nozzle is a little counter productive

Yeah, Gunner are very fond of doing it:mad:

Firekitten

a more consistent method of doing the same is to drill the cylinder, same principal as the vented cylinder, but reduces the volume of air that can be shunted forwards through the nozzle, while maintaining the flow stability of the undrilled nozzle.

o1s1n

Firekitten wrote: »

Recomend knowing more about what you're talking about next time before jumping in and saying things are crap.

Recomend focusing more or the content of posts than the knowledge (Or lack of) of people who are just trying to help. Saying things like that aren't particularly nice and come across as confrontational.

Firekitten

My appologies for perhaps being a tad... sarcastic, but i was replying using his own language... I don't feel its inapropriate to ask someone to understand a topic before dishing out gospel advice on the subject.

o1s1n

Firekitten wrote: »

My appologies for perhaps being a tad... sarcastic, but i was replying using his own language... I don't feel its inapropriate to ask someone to understand a topic before dishing out gospel advice on the subject.

I would rather not drag this off topic any more but feel like I need to reply to that.

It is only apropriate if you're a moderator of the forum. If not then it is not your place to direct/ask/suggest anyone to do anything in relation to this forum or their posting.

Stick to tearing the post itself to shreads if the thinking is wrong. Leave the poster/their personal knowledge out of it.

Anyway, lets leave it at that please! I can continue with this via PM if needed.

irishlostboy

Lethal_Bullet wrote: »

Yeah, Gunner are very fond of doing it:mad:

people closer to home are quite happy to drill nozels too unfortunatley. gunner or whoever seem to even have done a better job of it for this fella than eirsoft did on my aeg. :rolleyes:

o1s1n

irishlostboy wrote: »

people closer to home are quite happy to drill nozels too unfortunatley. gunner or whoever seem to even have done a better job of it for this fella than eirsoft did on my aeg. :rolleyes:

*Sigh*
I have a feeling this is going to be a long night.

If you have a problem with an airsoft store (And one who post here all the time and are very easy to contact), then get in touch with them DIRECTLY and resolve the issue.

Don't come on here just to bitch and moan about them.

Puding

a more consistent method of doing the same is to drill the cylinder, same principal as the vented cylinder, but reduces the volume of air that can be shunted forwards through the nozzle, while maintaining the flow stability of the undrilled nozzle.

consistent? yet to come across a drilled cylinder that is any way consistent, and why o why would you do it and leave the gearbox moving such a large spring for no reason? sorry but to me drilling either the nozzle or the cylinder is not recommended

Firekitten

I never said it was the prefered method Puding... Just that its a more consistent way of doing a bad thing... Well... Sortof like using a lump of rubber to hit a tree is more efficient than your hand, neither will do much good.

I never use this method at all personally... Nothing beats a good oldfashioned spring swap. No point being lazy when a job can be done right.

Shiva

o1s1n wrote: »

*Sigh*
I have a feeling this is going to be a long night.

If you have a problem with an airsoft store (And one who post here all the time and are very easy to contact), then get in touch with them DIRECTLY and resolve the issue.

Don't come on here just to bitch and moan about them.

Thanks Oisin. I'd like to answer this thread if I might though. Naturally, if you'd rather I didnt, feel free to delete it.

First off, Irishlostboy...as I have said before to other people, if you buy something from Eirsoft, and there is a problem, we will do our best to solve it for you if you let us know about it.

Secondly, regarding this whole drilling a hole in the nozzle.....

I pay my supplier to downgrade our Chinese guns before they enter the country. I have the invoices to prove it, and I have had quite a few shipments stopped, inspected and tested by customs and the Gardaí without a problem.

I think we all agree that drilling a hole in the nozzle of a gun isn't the best way to downgrade it. However, it is the only cost effective way to import Chinese guns legally. Now....I'm going to say that again for the terminally stupid out there.....It is the only cost effective way to import Chinese guns legally. If you're importing guns, and changing the spring before you sell them, you're breaking the law. And you certainly aren't selling anywhere near the volume of Chinese guns that I do, so please...spare me the self-righteous, holier than thou bull****, ok ?

I could pay to have the supplier install a weaker spring, but that would significantly increase the cost of each gun. And sure us Irish retailers already get it in the neck for daring to make a small profit to keep us in this business. Having said all that though, I have sold THOUSANDS of AEGs which came into this country pre-downgraded with a drilled nozzle, and only a very, very small fraction have had problems. I find it highly amusing that the most vocal people who carry on as if its the devils work are, other than some notable exceptions, other commercial interests, or were once employed by them. Agenda, perhaps ? I'm not saying its not a pain in the neck, or that its ideal, because its not - but its a necessary evil in this country.

I'm not denying that sometimes the Chinese suppliers do a crappy job, and we dont catch it before its sold. But a lot of the time we do, and we fix it before its sold. If a gun gets out in a less than satisfactory condition, we, without fail, will honour our commitment to our customers and fix the problem, replace the gun, or even offer a refund.

Unfortunately, our relatively low power requirements laid down by law don't allow for much leeway in sourcing airsoft guns legally.

If the DoJ tomorrow turned around and said "Hey Lads, we've decided that if we issue you a licence to retail in airsoft guns, you can now import guns at any power level, so long as you downgrade them to less than 1 joule before you sell them", believe me, I'd be buying a 1 joule spring with every single gun and Masada would be working double shifts to keep up with demand. But they haven't, and I wont risk my business, and the legality of airsoft itself, by importing hundreds of firearms a month in the hope that they'll get through customs undetected.

Honest to God, in the last six months, the rate of know-it-all, aggressive and political BS posts have gone through the roof in this forum, and frankly, I'm disgusted by it, and by the sheep who swallow whole some of the crap thats spouted here.

Now...I'm out. Carry on your discussion by all means, if the mods permit it, but I'm done with it.

Frank the Manc

I would have to say that im one of the biggest opponents of drilling anything in an AEG, that said i know without a shadow of a doubt that no self -respecting irish retailer would knowingly do it to a gun when its in country, whatever about doing it to get the gun landed, thats another story.

As Tony said, we operate under far more stricter conditions than the rest of the airsoft market as a whole so until the 1J rule comes into force in Aisa or America there will be no clone companies bringing out AEGs in the sub 350 mark, never mind 328.

But at least if its a drilled air nozzle, even if done unprofessionally, I know its a simple & cheap fix of a €5 spring and €3 airnozzle.

Compared to a butchered job at drilling a cylinder and possibly piston or piston head/o-ring, which may all need to be replaced, along with the spring, i know which of the two evils id prefer to have to remmedy.

Drilling a cylinder is no more consistant than drilling an air nozzle.

Firekitten

Frank the Manc wrote: »

I would have to say that im one of the biggest opponents of drilling anything in an AEG, that said i know without a shadow of a doubt that no self -respecting irish retailer would knowingly do it to a gun when its in country, whatever about doing it to get the gun landed, thats another story.

As Tony said, we operate under far more stricter conditions than the rest of the airsoft market as a whole so until the 1J rule comes into force in Aisa or America there will be no clone companies bringing out AEGs in the sub 350 mark, never mind 328.

But at least if its a drilled air nozzle, done professionally, I know its a simple & cheap fix of a €5 spring and €3 airnozzle.

Compared to a butchered job at drilling a cylinder and possibly piston or piston head/o-ring, which may all need to be replaced, along with the spring, i know which of the two evils id prefer to have to remmedy.

Drilling a cylinder is no more consistant than drilling an air nozzle.

Actually it IS more consistent.... While drilling anything is not the best way to do things. Drilling the cylinder with the correct bit will reduce the volume of the cylinder. NOT change the dynamics of the air flowing out of it. The Air nozzle has no holes in it for a reason... Its to provide a consistent flow of air, without eddies, to the bb, which when coupled with hop/ barrel, improves the accuracy of the bb on leaving the barrel. A turbulent air flow, as caused by a drilled nozzle will create uneven ballence in the air behind the BB, leading to increased variance in flight path. the cylinder, done right, (ie without the piston in the way (lol)) Is the best way to do THAT type of downgrade. However as has been agreed, spring change is by far and wide the best method, and one people should strive to use when possible. Admitedly in the volumes, sometimes its not economically feasble to do so.

Stonewolf

The world needs more guns with quick change springs

Rhinocharge

Stonewolf wrote: »

The world needs more guns with quick change springs

Never was there a more true statement.

Frank the Manc

Firekitten wrote: »

Actually it IS more consistent.... While drilling anything is not the best way to do things. Drilling the cylinder with the correct bit will reduce the volume of the cylinder. NOT change the dynamics of the air flowing out of it. The Air nozzle has no holes in it for a reason... Its to provide a consistent flow of air, without eddies, to the bb, which when coupled with hop/ barrel, improves the accuracy of the bb on leaving the barrel. A turbulent air flow, as caused by a drilled nozzle will create uneven ballence in the air behind the BB, leading to increased variance in flight path. the cylinder, done right, (ie without the piston in the way (lol)) Is the best way to do THAT type of downgrade. However as has been agreed, spring change is by far and wide the best method, and one people should strive to use when possible. Admitedly in the volumes, sometimes its not economically feasble to do so.

In theory maybe with a propper constructed vent at the optimum position, both sides of the cylinder, but certianly not with some swraf riddled hole, puncturing who knows what, on the one side of the cylinder.
To even attempt to do it right you would have to open the gearbox thus negating the very reason for doing the act in the first place.

I can tell you right now that iv seen plenty of guns with drilled cylinders and the shot to shot consistency was nothing short of disgraceful.
The worst of which was a CAm15 that ranged from anything from 194 to 340-ishfps

Puding

yes drilling the cylinder is more consitent than the nozzel, like being shot in the shoulder is better than the chest, both options suck and i would rather go with niether

Firekitten

Frank the Manc wrote: »

In theory maybe with a propper constructed vent at the optimum position, both sides of the cylinder, but certianly not with some swraf riddled hole, puncturing who knows what, on the one side of the cylinder.
To even attempt to do it right you would have to open the gearbox thus negating the very reason for doing the act in the first place.

I can tell you right now that iv seen plenty of guns with drilled cylinders and the shot to shot consistency was nothing short of disgraceful.
The worst of which was a CAm15 that ranged from anything from 194 to 340-ishfps

How best to say this... Perhaps the method you have been told about, is the incorrect one? There is a way to do it without swarf everywhere, and correctly. But Its going far off topic.

Puding: Duh, as I said... lesser of two evils, but both are still pretty evil :P

Oh and getting shot in the chest does tend to suck... Pneumothorax's aren't cool kids....

TheDoc

Stonewolf wrote: »

The world needs more guns with quick change springs

As ideal that would be to a retailer and possibly those who travel abroad enough.

Thats an arseholes wet dream, as you can well imagine.

People here have been caught going out of bounds on play sites to try sneak around a chrono, could you imagine what would happen with a quick change gearbox....

Firekitten

TheDoc wrote: »

As ideal that would be to a retailer and possibly those who travel abroad enough.

Thats an arseholes wet dream, as you can well imagine.

People here have been caught going out of bounds on play sites to try sneak around a chrono, could you imagine what would happen with a quick change gearbox....

Quoted for absolute bloody truth....

Totally right, the fact people can cheat with normal gearboxes, and systema PTWs.... imagine how bad it would get with quick change when the marshal isnt looking? swap it back when they want to crono? There is no easy way sadly.

Frank the Manc

Firekitten wrote: »

How best to say this... Perhaps the method you have been told about, is the incorrect one? There is a way to do it without swarf everywhere, and correctly. But Its going far off topic.

Puding: Duh, as I said... lesser of two evils, but both are still pretty evil :P

Oh and getting shot in the chest does tend to suck... Pneumothorax's aren't cool kids....

sure were far enough as is you may as well enlighten me.

Firekitten

Frank the Manc wrote: »

sure were far enough as is you may as well enlighten me.

Trade secrets... you know how it is.

Frank the Manc

Firekitten wrote: »

Trade secrets... you know how it is.

if thats your trade id be looking into another FAS course:pac:

lochdara

TheDoc wrote: »

As ideal that would be to a retailer and possibly those who travel abroad enough.

Thats an arseholes wet dream, as you can well imagine.

People here have been caught going out of bounds on play sites to try sneak around a chrono, could you imagine what would happen with a quick change gearbox....

SO whats your opinon on velocity reducing flash hiders.
Me thinks just as bad as a quick change spring idea.

Puding

the flash hider are unbelievably stupid and i;ve yet to see an event in the world that will accept them, they work on friction and are liable to stop working at the drop of a hat, let alone the fact someone can remove it with ease

lochdara

Puding wrote: »

the flash hider are unbelievably stupid and i;ve yet to see an event in the world that will accept them, they work on friction and are liable to stop working at the drop of a hat, let alone the fact someone can remove it with ease

yeah i know someone using them and i am going to make a prosposal to ban them on our site.
After all if they have to use them the aeg is illegal in the first place.

Firekitten

lochdara wrote: »

SO whats your opinon on velocity reducing flash hiders.
Me thinks just as bad as a quick change spring idea.

I know you wanted doc's view, but in my opinion they are extremely inconsistent, and also illegal to use in ireland. The output is still over, those things are _too_ easy to change, and dont work all the time. Also ruin your accuracy. We have a lot of trouble with them at english sites for guns shooting over... nearly evey site bans thier use.

Frank: I didn't say it was MY trade secret. Never used the practice in my life, never intend to.

Puding

we banned them at cork last year from the beginning tbh

lochdara

all opinions count..

Thanks. Its my view too..

Masada

Firekitten wrote: »

Actually it IS more consistent.... While drilling anything is not the best way to do things. Drilling the cylinder with the correct bit will reduce the volume of the cylinder. NOT change the dynamics of the air flowing out of it. The Air nozzle has no holes in it for a reason... Its to provide a consistent flow of air, without eddies, to the bb, which when coupled with hop/ barrel, improves the accuracy of the bb on leaving the barrel. A turbulent air flow, as caused by a drilled nozzle will create uneven ballence in the air behind the BB, leading to increased variance in flight path. the cylinder, done right, (ie without the piston in the way (lol)) Is the best way to do THAT type of downgrade. However as has been agreed, spring change is by far and wide the best method, and one people should strive to use when possible. Admitedly in the volumes, sometimes its not economically feasble to do so.

Thats bull shit to be honest.

Not to mention where all these metal filings are going to go as you drill into the cylinder, aswell as the burrs left on the inside where the piston and O Ring have to pass...

irishlostboy

Shiva wrote: »

First off, Irishlostboy...as I have said before to other people, if you buy something from Eirsoft, and there is a problem, we will do our best to solve it for you if you let us know about it.

etc... too long to quote...

i love this place. one retailer you cannot even name, and another you cannot speak ill about even if its a perfectly quantifiable and legitimate grieviance. nepotism much?

The Master

irishlostboy wrote: »

i love this place. one retailer you cannot even name, and another you cannot speak ill about even if its a perfectly quantifiable and legitimate grieviance. nepotism much?

irishlostboy , Firstly there are no retailers that "you cannot even name" in the Airsoft forum.

Perhaps you should have another read of the Airsoft forum charter as well as the sticky mentioning a change in said charter.

Secondly if you have a grievience with ANY retailer posting about it on boards.ie is not the way to have the issue resolved.
Contact the retailer in question and discuss the issue with them.

irishlostboy wrote: »

nepotism much?

:rolleyes:

If you feel the moderators of the forum are some how showing favouritism towards particular users please feel free to PM us about it

Growler!!!

Hi all and thanks for your informative replies.

Does anyone have a recommondation for whose spring to use? Prometheus? Gaurder? and what does non - linear in a spring mean?

Final question - I note that the springs seem to have a different number of coils per lenght. ie more coils per inch at the front compared to the back. Does it matter which way they are installed?

Firekitten

Hello Growler,

Yes, Tighter coils go to the rear of the gearbox nearest to the Spring guide.

Non Linear means just that... the coils are not evenly spaced, and as such, it produces a more regular elastic behaviour by the spring, than with a linear compression that would exert more stress on the bonds of the material.

Ie, non linear lasts longer.

I'd recomend a prometheus spring personally.

Leftyflip

Guarder springs are meant to be good, stay away from Element one's, they're a bit dodgy, Prometheus springs are good too.

Firekitten

Older ones were quite bad Lefty, But the newer batches seem quite good to me.

To be honest guarder and promy are both excelent... cant go wrong with either....

Growler!!!

Firekitten wrote: »

Hello Growler,
Non Linear means just that... the coils are not evenly spaced, and as such, it produces a more regular elastic behaviour by the spring, than with a linear compression that would exert more stress on the bonds of the material. quote]


Thanks FK- that explains it. I had visions of a linear spring going forward and back. A non linear going everywhere...

Lefty - Prometheus it will be:D

Leftyflip

Firekitten wrote: »

Older ones were quite bad Lefty, But the newer batches seem quite good to me.

To be honest guarder and promy are both excelent... cant go wrong with either....

I must have gotten a bad one so...

Firekitten

Growler!!! wrote: »

Firekitten wrote: »

Hello Growler,
Non Linear means just that... the coils are not evenly spaced, and as such, it produces a more regular elastic behaviour by the spring, than with a linear compression that would exert more stress on the bonds of the material. quote]


Thanks FK- that explains it. I had visions of a linear spring going forward and back. A non linear going everywhere...

Lefty - Prometheus it will be:D

mmm no... they ALL go everywhere if you arent careful.... the number of times ive been hit by a flying spring guide, had a spring pass gracefully over my shoulder, under my arm, hit me on the forehead is uncountable...