Which cities' transport systems do you admire?

Aard

I was in Copenhagen last week, and what struck me most was their transport system.

Firstly, lots of people cycle - there are wide, segregated cycle lanes, with cycle traffic-lights, and ample parking spaces. There are rules for cycling that everyone adheres to, like certain arm-gestures, and no left-hand turns (you have to cross at the pedestrian crossing, then go straight).

Secondly, the S-tog - six branches that extend far into the suburbs, and converge in the city centre (three going north-west from there, three going south-west). This is the "backbone" of Copenhagen's public transport system. The trains are frequent, regular, and spacious. It's possible to bring your bike onto them too.

Finally, the zone-system. The entire Greater Copenhagen Area is divided into a grid of 95 zones. Your fare is calculated on the distance between your start zone and your end zone - so even if you have to go via the city centre, you don't have to pay for two journeys. It's the same price whether you travel by bus, S-tog, or metro. Though complicated, I think this is an elegant solution that doesn't penalise people for living far from the city centre.


So which cities' transport systems do you admire?

triple-M

Amsterdam for their cycle friendly facilities their brilliant tram and decent metro system which is currently being extended further,and finally most modes of transport in the netherlands use an integrated ticketing system called strippenkaarten which is convenient

hardCopy

I love chicago.

Integrated ticketing across bus and train.
Frequent service.
Bikes allowed on trains and buses.

jasonbourme.cs

this is going to sound cliche but anywhere i've been in Germany has pretty good transport , Frankfurt , Stuttgart , Munich . this was the year before last though so not sure what its like at the moment .

i like mainland Europe in general if your in any of the big cities they have public transport networks that put Irish Rail to shame in terms of performance and even more so in terms of value for money

Zebra3

Aard wrote: »

I was in Copenhagen last week, and what struck me most was their transport system.

Firstly, lots of people cycle - there are wide, segregated cycle lanes, with cycle traffic-lights, and ample parking spaces. There are rules for cycling that everyone adheres to, like certain arm-gestures, and no left-hand turns (you have to cross at the pedestrian crossing, then go straight).

Secondly, the S-tog - six branches that extend far into the suburbs, and converge in the city centre (three going north-west from there, three going south-west). This is the "backbone" of Copenhagen's public transport system. The trains are frequent, regular, and spacious. It's possible to bring your bike onto them too.

Finally, the zone-system. The entire Greater Copenhagen Area is divided into a grid of 95 zones. Your fare is calculated on the distance between your start zone and your end zone - so even if you have to go via the city centre, you don't have to pay for two journeys. It's the same price whether you travel by bus, S-tog, or metro. Though complicated, I think this is an elegant solution that doesn't penalise people for living far from the city centre.

It's not just their transport system that you have to admire....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copenhagen#Finger_Plan

One criticism I do have of their transport system though is the cost. Even though Dk has a high cost of living, many locals are very bitter about the price they pay for it....

Aard

Yes the Finger Plan is clever.


I suppose the high cost of public transport encourages people to cycle more...

Colm R

Its easy to think of big cities with good systems, however it gets a bit more interesting, when we see how smaller cities work.

Edinburgh to me seems to have a simple to use and very good value for money.

Marathon Man

For me it has to be Karlsruhe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadtbahn_Karlsruhe

Oliver1985

Was in Paris last year loved the metro so easy to get around town!!!

trad

A lot of European cities were devestated during the second world war and when they were evenutally rebuilt they were able to put better infrasructure in place, no complaints about knocking down historic buildings etc. So it is little wonder they had a chance to get it right.

Cuddlesworth

Berlin. For a city its size its amazing how easy it is to get around.

ednwireland

munich, singapore, Kuala lumpar, mexico city - metro systems, and nottingham where i was astudent which had amazing bike lanes (and bike activated traffic lights)

MOH

Amsterdam and the Hague for trams, bike facilities, integrated ticketing.

Found London fairly efficient any time I've been over, but never lived there.

Stockholm - 24 hour underground system, longest I waited was 10 minutes at 3am (usually a max of 2 mins any other time), plus reasonable prices and sensible ticket options and promotions. Even on the airport express, which wasn't cheap, they were offering 2-for-1 deals.

Found the Budapest Metro good too, especially considering it's the 2nd oldest in the world.

1huge1

While it might of been at times expensive I do believe the Underground in London is one of the best modes of transport on the planet.

Sponge Bob

I admire Dublin .

The fact that Dublin actually considers itself a world class city and peddles itself as such with the crudfest of a telecommunications and transport infrastructure it actually has demonstrates a certain je ne sais quoi at all at all?

benj

Tokyo

G_R

I think paris is very good, when i was there i found it very easy to use and get around

Metrobest

MOH wrote: »

Amsterdam and the Hague for trams, bike facilities, integrated ticketing.

To be fair, there are also bad sides to public transport in Amsterdam. The trams are notoriously slow and unreliable - don´t count on making that 9am meeting. The luas puts Amsterdam to shame when it comes to trams.

The metro system is limited and not really useful for most people. Trains going to the poorer suburbs are dirty and unwelcoming.

The buses do work well, but there is currently confusion about the fares as Amsterdam is moving over to the OV chipcard (like Oyster) for all modes. A single journey costs 2.60 regardless of length. And nobody can explain why they are spending all this money when the system is already integrated and works perfectly well with the national strip cards.

That said, the bike facilities are unbeatable. But people often use the bike because it´s faster than using public transport. Which is why the trams tend to get very crowded on rainy mornings.

Zoney

I haven't a vast experience, but I did find Munich's transport wonderful. Haven't even used the trams or buses there yet though, just underground and S-bahn! I look forward to visiting there again - I'm not a fan of the "emigrate because Ireland is so bad" club, but I do find it a breath of fresh air to get away.

trad wrote: »

A lot of European cities were devestated during the second world war and when they were evenutally rebuilt they were able to put better infrasructure in place, no complaints about knocking down historic buildings etc. So it is little wonder they had a chance to get it right.

We did level large amounts of our own cities when they started falling apart (or became inconvenient). Also plenty of our suburbs are post-war. So sorry, but that argument doesn't cut it for me. I know it's technically outside the State, but in Belfast they levelled tracts of land (or created it) for the motorways/Westlink and yet public transport remains basic. Similarly we have a Dublin Port Tunnel at great expense and engineering effort yet apart from rail and bus, we still only have two separate single-line tram systems.

It's about will - and the will isn't there for decent public transport. Mainly because many inherently object to the idea of taxation to provide universal services, and also subscribe to individualism and would prefer to sit in traffic filling one seat in a four seat car because it gives them "independence". Even in boom times we barely provided services in many areas, nevermind a thoroughly inadequate public transport system and barely managing to deliver motorways.

patrickmooney

I think for connectedness, Berlin has it. Without knowing German, you can connect from u-bann, s-bann and bus etc. The bus stops are marked, announced on-board. Very effecient.

The Tokyo Subway is something else. You can't get lost. Naturally it's all intergrated with a contactless card. Getting off a train, your connection is indicated with three spellings, a colour and a number. All markers indicate how far you've to walk in metres, I couldn't fault it.

patrickmooney

But for price, Beijing, just back from there. No matter what distance/time, the subways are 20cent a ride with their contactless card. Buses are 4cent. Their card also works on taxis, which work out at 1euro for 15mins. All connected, all intergrated. Loved it.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

New York City. I Know the MTA has it's detractors but for a city as huge as NYC to provide all it's communities with an all-in-one 24/7 transport system is great, on such a scale. No matter where you are in the 5 boroughs you're never far from a subway station or a bus route and that you can get from anywhere to anywhere else in the city for $2 represents great value. It has some stations that could do with a bit of a cleanup and it also represents a bit of a problem as regards vagrants and people begging in the subways, but overall I reckon it represents mass transit at it's best.

schween

There are so many places in Europe with good public transport. London, Paris and Amsterdam have been mentioned and I agree they are quite good.

I'm currently in Madrid and the metro system here is so vast and efficient and the suburban rail network is also excellent, efficient and expansive. Both networks are so well interconnected. And the metro is only €1 a journey...quite cheap.

Capt'n Midnight

trad wrote: »

A lot of European cities were devestated during the second world war and when they were evenutally rebuilt they were able to put better infrasructure in place, no complaints about knocking down historic buildings etc. So it is little wonder they had a chance to get it right.

Actually one of the big differences is that they didn't rip up tram lines, the way we did

Dublin had a great tram network , especially between the canals. Yes it needed improving, but we had trams to Howth, Lucan, Blessington (and beyond)

1923 - Solid red lines are trams, dashed lines are buses.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dublin_1922-23_Map_Suburbs_MatureTrams_wFaresTimes_Trains_EarlyBus_Canals_pub.png

We also had the first scheduled suburban railway too.


Imagine we kept the tram lines and added to them later on..

Imagine we used the train lines in Dublin port to move the trucks out of the city.

Still you have to admire what we had

carlmango11

For me, it's definitely London. I think they've done the best with what they have. It really is such an amazingly well organised system. The tube is so simple to use, the bus routes are well explained, all changes with the whole transport system is updated online and in all their stations. There really is just so much organisation behind it all.

chewed

Munich! Super U and S Bahn service.

dereko1969

carlmango11 wrote: »

For me, it's definitely London. I think they've done the best with what they have. It really is such an amazingly well organised system. The tube is so simple to use, the bus routes are well explained, all changes with the whole transport system is updated online and in all their stations. There really is just so much organisation behind it all.

I think London is pretty good, but if you're a wheelchair user the Tube has an awful lot of stations that aren't easy to get around which I think they should be forced to address when hosting the Paralympics.

I found Berlin great, probably helped that I was staying in Alexanderplatz which had great connectivity, but so easy to get around and good value too.

KCAccidental

I admire Toronto's system

while woefully underfunded the TTC have managed to make the most of what is a limited system for the cities size. their clever use of bus routes (no winding routes to the city centre everything is routed to the nearest subway/streetcar line) is great and while the subway and streetcars can be crowded they are almost always on time even in the worst weather.

donvito99

Berlin...Berlin...Berlin...Berlin...

MOH

Metrobest wrote: »

To be fair, there are also bad sides to public transport in Amsterdam. The trams are notoriously slow and unreliable - don´t count on making that 9am meeting. The luas puts Amsterdam to shame when it comes to trams.
.

Maybe they've changed in the last few years, but I lived and worked there for a year and took the tram to/from work most days, never noticed any major problems. After I while I did get fed up any time they were 2 or 3 minutes late. Found them far more reliable than buses/DARTs here.
Only time I ever used the Luas on a regular basis was to visit a relative in James' Hospital - put me right off it, always found it unreliable.

Nostradamus

Claremorris. Perhaps the most comprehensive and intense public transport system for an urban area of its size anywhere on the earth and with major exansion plans for the future.

I am being 100% serious. Tragically so.

strassenwolf

I see Berlin has been mentioned a few times on this thread.

In terms of coverage of the city, it's certainly up there.

In my opinion, Berlin has done very well to assemble a very decent transport service, considering its size and because it was divided for such a long time during the post-war development of its transport system(s).

However, in my experience, some of the ticket machines, are painfully slow.

dermo88

Singapore

Hong Kong

Both of which are superb, and good value for money.

London would be good, but it needs to be half the price, although its not so bad since Sterling devalued.

Cologne is neat, and in fact, most German cities are.

Dublin would be better had the 1980's railplan gone ahead, but that went up in a recession that makes this one look like a boom. Integrated ticketing is a long way off.

Urban nightmares include Kuala Lumpur, Bangkok, Manila, San Jose Costa Rica, all of which are conurbations, and all of which I have direct experience of.

cor

Zurich for it's excellent timekeeping, and the underground in London is great.

A Dub in Glasgo

Glasgow for the trains, they also bulldoze 2 motorways through the city!

For those complaining about London, get yourselves an Oyster card

Irish and Proud

Metrobest wrote: »

To be fair, there are also bad sides to public transport in Amsterdam. The trams are notoriously slow and unreliable - don´t count on making that 9am meeting. The luas puts Amsterdam to shame when it comes to trams.

...yes, have used the Luas Green Line many a time - to me, it is the way public transport should be - not only can Ireland learn from it, so too can other countries. First of all, it is fast, frequent and reliable (ok - that's nothing new), but more importantly it seems well used in both directions at any time I've been on it. I also like its ease of access (no cumbersome walkways to gain access) and relatively simple ticketing system. Was on the Red Line once - not as good as the Green Line, but pretty good none the less!

Regards!

Irish and Proud

strassenwolf wrote: »

I see Berlin has been mentioned a few times on this thread.

In terms of coverage of the city, it's certainly up there.

In my opinion, Berlin has done very well to assemble a very decent transport service, considering its size and because it was divided for such a long time during the post-war development of its transport system(s).

However, in my experience, some of the ticket machines, are painfully slow.

hmmm, that's surprising! Find the ticket machines in Dublin pretty fast!

Regards!

Tiesto

Nuernberg by a mile.
For a city of 500,000 people, the U Bahn, Strassenbahn and Bus service is simply amazing!!!

Irish and Proud

Zoney wrote: »

We did level large amounts of our own cities when they started falling apart (or became inconvenient). Also plenty of our suburbs are post-war. So sorry, but that argument doesn't cut it for me.

Agreed! Much of Dublin is post war and very little provision for transport infrastructure was put aside. The roads are way too narrow - many main radials are only 3 lanes - they should be 3 lanes each way - one for buses at all times (increasing to 2 lanes at peak times).

Zoney wrote: »

Similarly we have a Dublin Port Tunnel at great expense and engineering effort yet apart from rail and bus, we still only have two separate single-line tram systems.

Since the collapse of the Malahide Rail Viaduct, the DPT is a God send for me. This particular motorway is probably the only urban motorway in Europe that actually works - it's anti-car, hence it rarely snarls up, is fast and efficient. In short, the DPT is effectively a freight and public transport route - very few cars!

BTW, (please don't lynch me) I've been through College Green a couple of times on the bus - it seems to be working (pity the 101X buses don't). OK, it's controversial (as is this post I guess! ), but traffic there seems to be moving now - all the way from Wilton Terrace that is - the problem new seems to centre around the IFSC and Busaras.

Regards!

Irish and Proud

cor wrote: »

Zurich for it's excellent timekeeping, and the underground in London is great.

Tried a couple of Bus Routes in Cork City - from my experience, you could set your watch by them - excellent!!! Pity about the traffic, but I suppose it wasn't all that bad. Much of Cork is not very pedestrian friendly though - mind you, I found the people there very friendly, and their sense of pride (when Cork was playing Kerry) was amazing - many businesses (even the Mahon Shopping Centre) were awash in the Cork colours - Kent Station was no exception either!

Regards!

netwhizkid

For me it has to be Prague, so far has the best, Munich is also very but I didn't do enough exploring due to the sub-zero temperatures to test it out. I beleive Moscow has the worlds best but very little people have been there and had to guts to venture on the public system without a bodyguard!

Maldini2706

Barcelona's transport system is perfect. The city is massive compared to Dublin, but pretty much everywhere in the city is at most 30 minutes away from anywhere else. The metro runs exactly on time and all the carriages are clean. They also have a tram system similar to the LUAS and a bus service, but both act as additions to the Metro rather than replacements.

Lennoxschips

I lived in Amsterdam for 17 years and it was 8 km from where I lived to Leidseplein (the nightlife centre of the town). There was a direct tram line (no. 5) to Leidseplein. Bike beat the tram hands down every time, deffo the preferred mode of transport. And if it was raining, the bus beat the tram too. Bus was generally more comfortable and cleaner too.

The metro in Amsterdam is OK, if you are going from certain areas to certain areas, but by no means useful to get around all of the city. They are currently building a new line which is making headlines for turning into a cost overrun nightmare. It's a bored tunnel under loads of historical buildings. It's the first bored tunnel in Amsterdam, because Amsterdam is a bog where you shouldn't be building a bored tunnel. This metro could cause serious damage to old buildings. For example, they will bore it THROUGH the foundations of 19th century Centraal Station. Madness. And the route mostly duplicates the existing metro, which makes it all the more stupid.

As was mentioned earlier, they are introducing an electronic integrated ticketing service, which is turning out to be a bit of a disaster as well. You have to remember to "end" your journey when you get off the bus or tram... people in a hurry forget. One handy thing is that you can link the card up to your bank account, so that you never have to worry about not having a Strippenkaart. I was always running out of those things.

Copenhagen metro is a total ripoff.

NMoore

Tokyo's subway & train systems are amazing. They live up to the hyper-efficient hype! And it's not just tokyo, the train system is incredible across the whole country. You can time your journey literally to the minute. Singapore and Hong kong also have great subways - clean, fast, easy to understand. Durians ( big smelly fruit) are banned on Singapore's subway.
London buses are also great. (unless you're cycling, in which case they are evil menaces!) Alright, they may be late, they are definietly crowded, but they go everywhere, regularly, and all through the night!

Plumpynutt

deccurley wrote: »

New York City. I Know the MTA has it's detractors but for a city as huge as NYC to provide all it's communities with an all-in-one 24/7 transport system is great, on such a scale. No matter where you are in the 5 boroughs you're never far from a subway station or a bus route and that you can get from anywhere to anywhere else in the city for $2 represents great value. It has some stations that could do with a bit of a cleanup and it also represents a bit of a problem as regards vagrants and people begging in the subways, but overall I reckon it represents mass transit at it's best.

this. and also Lisbon.

L1011

Brighton, for being the size of Cork but having a well working bus system with at-stop real time information, 24 hour routes, centrally located interchange points, cheap tickets, etc, etc.

Their ticketing system could do with being dragged in to 1994 or so though - they've the same Wayfarer cash tickets as we use although the driver uses a manual, open coin rack; but their prepaid tickets are scratchcards over which you stick a peel-off plastic seal...

paddy cork

for value , milan one day ticket 3 euro metro, bus ,tram ,including bus in from linate airport

dfx-

cor wrote: »

Zurich for it's excellent timekeeping, and the underground in London is great.

Definitely Zurich

murphaph

paddy cork wrote: »

for value , milan one day ticket 3 euro metro, bus ,tram ,including bus in from linate airport

That must be the only cheap thing in Milan!

DWCommuter

Douglas on the Isle of Man.

Judgement Day

DWCommuter wrote: »

Douglas on the Isle of Man.

You are kidding I hope? Douglas is a disaster area. Clapped out horse trams fighting for road space with massive amounts of private and commercial vehicles and no longer reaching the Sea Terminal a la Rosslare Europort; the bus station was demolished some years ago and not replaced; the Manx Electric railway is virtually derelict with the permanent way so bad the trams regularly leave the track; the steam railway is a ghost of itself squeezed in between Tescos, an enormous bus depot and the Customs Service carpark, but to be fair the buses are clean and frequent. The horse tram is also a handy way to do a pub crawl of the promenade but taken overall Douglas is a mish mash of semi-defunct transport systems presided over by the IoM government who have their heads so far up their asses ........as Winston Churchill said a County Council behaving like a sovereign state...Sorry Mods perhaps you should move this to Ranting and Raving but with only Pat Kenny's 'Frontline' on TV is it any wonder?