what are the benifits of the TUI?

positivenote

Just wondering guys what the benifits of joining the TUI are? ive been amember for over 6 years and pay over 30euro a month and cant actually see what benifit i have gained from al these payments? As far as i can see there is no health insurance policy or discount, the car insurance scheme works out more expensive than shopping around yourself and i cant afford to be putting money away in the credit union?
am i missing something here?

smcgiff

My wife has recently started working as a primary teacher and the INTO union fees would be something similar. This is a huge amount of money per person - I presume ye get really nice chocolate biscuits at your meetings?!?

In a somewhat related issue - SIPTU are tearing down their HQ and rebuilding a new one on the same site. Just as well, there's no recession going on. :rolleyes:

implausible

You do get a discount on health insurance. There are group schemes.

The benefits usually only become apparent when you're in bother, like most trade unions. You have the force of an organisation behind you. If you can't see the benefits, why are you paying?

rainbowtrout

I, and many of the teachers in my school would have possibly said the same over the past couple of years 'Why are we paying all that money out every month, we don't get anything out of it'

Quite a number of teachers I work with had a LOT of hassle getting their CIDs this year, cuts in hours, changes to their contracts etc etc and they got onto the union and they sorted it all out for them fairly sharpish. Every single one of them to the last would say it's been worth every penny they've paid in over the last few years. They would never have been able to do it without all the help they got.

A lot of people would probably say, they're not in it for the benefits you mention - healthcare, car insurance, credit union etc - but rather for the protection and help it offers when it's needed.

smcgiff

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I, and many of the teachers in my school would have possibly said the same over the past couple of years 'Why are we paying all that money out every month, we don't get anything out of it'

Quite a number of teachers I work with had a LOT of hassle getting their CIDs this year, cuts in hours, changes to their contracts etc etc and they got onto the union and they sorted it all out for them fairly sharpish. Every single one of them to the last would say it's been worth every penny they've paid in over the last few years. They would never have been able to do it without all the help they got.

A lot of people would probably say, they're not in it for the benefits you mention - healthcare, car insurance, credit union etc - but rather for the protection and help it offers when it's needed.

Rainbowtrout,

Have you ever thought about the cost? Are you happy with the cost? At what point would you ask the question, 'What is the money going on...' €100 per month?!?

smcgiff

deemark wrote: »

You do get a discount on health insurance. There are group schemes.

Buy it online yourself and you'll get the same 10% discount.

As for the other group schemes, if you've been blindly following these you may not be getting the most competitive deal.

TheDriver

The day the rep told us all to meet the principal due to a union issue and we all had to stand behind the rep, it became apparent to the 2 who were not in a union that the proposed walk out if negotiations over an issue weren't resolved, they would have to stay and work and pass the picket.
The union is expensive, seems useless and you think you might not need it but this year if ever is when you really do need to be in the union, if there is a strike then you must come to work, you must cross the picket and you will not be liked if you are in a very hardline school. One thing I learnt, people take the union very very very very (get my point) seriously.

The other point i would have is the day a student says something about you, even no matter how false it is, thats when the only back up will be your union. Or the day the post interviews are swung in someones favour. Or the day you don't get your salary and the dept isn't too worried about getting it to you in a hurry. Or your principal is trying to screw you out of something. Its all about protection. And all that money goes into funds for striking and paying head office salaries etc. Yes it is expensive. But I would never ever recommend anyone to be outside a union, its a very dangerous place to be in teaching, for YOUR own sake. Its like driving without a seatbelt to be honest.

positivenote

thanks for the replies comrades , the issue was never should i leave the union as it would never happen having been brought up by my parents never to cross a picket and also having had first had dealing of months of strikes with my father during the eighties. The issue was primarily the benefits that arise from the money being paid every month and to what end this money is being used for if it is not for the benefit of the contributing members...

rainbowtrout

smcgiff wrote: »

Rainbowtrout,

Have you ever thought about the cost? Are you happy with the cost? At what point would you ask the question, 'What is the money going on...' €100 per month?!?

What union are you in paying €100 a month?

*searches for payslip*


€16.53 fortnightly for me does not break the bank for what I outlined and all the stuff TheDriver mentioned. It's about half the cost of my health insurance which I have never used.

ulysses32

There are definite benefits to union membership at the moment. However, they might show some solidarity with members by perhaps taking a pay cut in line with ours and reducing their subscription costs.

Some might view the unions as private sector organisations making hay out of representing public sector workers!!

smcgiff

rainbowtrout wrote: »

What union are you in paying €100 a month?

Hi,

None- I obviously was not clear enough.

Some people saying the union is great without much thought to the cost. Does anybody question the union's cost?

When is the last time they had to supplement teacher's wages? They must have huge war chest by now.

Although, with that said it is almost certain it will be dipped into soon. Although, it is equally certain pay cuts will be required, it's a debatable point as to whether the pay cuts will be limited by strikes.

Frankly frank

TheDriver wrote: »

The day the rep told us all to meet the principal due to a union issue and we all had to stand behind the rep, it became apparent to the 2 who were not in a union that the proposed walk out if negotiations over an issue weren't resolved, they would have to stay and work and pass the picket.
The union is expensive, seems useless and you think you might not need it but this year if ever is when you really do need to be in the union, if there is a strike then you must come to work, you must cross the picket and you will not be liked if you are in a very hardline school. One thing I learnt, people take the union very very very very (get my point) seriously.

The other point i would have is the day a student says something about you, even no matter how false it is, thats when the only back up will be your union. Or the day the post interviews are swung in someones favour. Or the day you don't get your salary and the dept isn't too worried about getting it to you in a hurry. Or your principal is trying to screw you out of something. Its all about protection. And all that money goes into funds for striking and paying head office salaries etc. Yes it is expensive. But I would never ever recommend anyone to be outside a union, its a very dangerous place to be in teaching, for YOUR own sake. Its like driving without a seatbelt to be honest.

Interested if you still hold this view now ?
I don't see any benefits for subscription paid.

doc_17

It really doesn't need to be about what you get out of it, but maybe what we get out of it. If there were no unions the last 8 years would have been an even bigger mess than they were.

But anyway, here's some of the things, Ward Report, Return of S&S, Pay Restoration, More Autonomy in CP Hours.

Those are recent enough and yes maybe not enough. But without the Union....

Frankly frank

doc_17 wrote: »

It really doesn't need to be about what you get out of it, but maybe what we get out of it.

???
I am referring to a hefty sub which runs to thousands over years, hard to justify


Pay Restoration ???
On inferior pay-scale

evolving_doors

I heard that management wouldn't consider someone for a post of responsibility iunless they had union membership!! I'm not sure why but I suppose if anything happened the union would pick up the legal tab rather than the school or teacher. Has anyone heard of this?

It's just an insurance policy really .. why do I need car insurance every week if I don't crash etc...

If anything happened and you weren't in a union I suppose you could look at all the money you've saved and hire you're own solicitor, would they have the same knowledge as a union solicitor who deals with similar cases on a weekly basis?

Plus it'll represent the profession as a whole and state the case of the majority of the membership. The TUI don't have that anymore now as they are tied into Landsdown Road and can't strike... anything and everything can be railroaded through without a whisper.

Frankly frank

Gebgbegb wrote: »

I heard that management wouldn't consider someone for a post of responsibility iunless they had union membership!! I'm not sure why but I suppose if anything happened the union would pick up the legal tab rather than the school or teacher. Has anyone heard of this?

It's just an insurance policy really .. why do I need car insurance every week if I don't crash etc...

If anything happened and you weren't in a union I suppose you could look at all the money you've saved and hire you're own solicitor, would they have the same knowledge as a union solicitor who deals with similar cases on a weekly basis?

Plus it'll represent the profession as a whole and state the case of the majority of the membership. The TUI don't have that anymore now as they are tied into Landsdown Road and can't strike... anything and everything can be railroaded through without a whisper.

Now that (mgmt -por) if correct is interesting - thanks

km79

Frankly frank wrote: »

Now that (mgmt -por) if correct is interesting - thanks

I've never heard it mentioned before TBH

evolving_doors

km79 wrote: »

I've never heard it mentioned before TBH

Come to think of it, if I were recruiting folk to be AP's I'd want them fairly loyal to me (who wouldn't!). Any ructions within a school about management decisions and a union meeting is held, I'd be asking my colleagues fairly sharpish what was said and by whom! Maybe I've been watching too much House of Cards.

mirrorwall14

TUI got me my full time CID when the ETB were playing silly beggars and my principal didn't care. Worth every penny. The extra money I'm earning every year is many multiples the subscription I pay

TheDriver

Frankly frank wrote: »

Interested if you still hold this view now ?
I don't see any benefits for subscription paid.

I still hold this view. As much as I would have bones to pick with the union and I voted against their recommendations, I would also dread to think where we would be if we didn't have a union. I think we would be rode by govt at every opportunity.

As a Principal, wouldn't give a flying toss if a prospective post interviewee was in a union or not. And I would want them loyal to the school foremost, not loyal to me personally though

man_no_plan

TheDriver wrote: »

I still hold this view. As much as I would have bones to pick with the union and I voted against their recommendations, I would also dread to think where we would be if we didn't have a union. I think we would be rode by govt at every opportunity.

As a Principal, wouldn't give a flying toss if a prospective post interviewee was in a union or not. And I would want them loyal to the school foremost, not loyal to me personally though

Likewise I think that the union is very necessary and worthwhile. While I think TUI were right, in the latest situation, they can make a balls of stuff too.

What an effective union needs is good people working together to keep an eye out for each other. In a school that means looking at the new teachers and making sure they're not shafted for hours and so on. Nobody in an office on dunlin van do anything unless there are people on the ground looking after themselves first . this has to be a collective thing , this individualism with people knifing each other to get ahead.

All the talk of the integrity of the profession on threads around here would bring up your dinner. The same people sit in staff rooms and backbite from one end of the week to the next and make underhand comments about the ability of 'older' teachers to teach.

What's going on in teaching at the minute isn't just a product of the recent cutbacks, there's a mindset of entitlement and superiority amond a lot of people who think they're gods greatest gift to their schools. People feel that in staffroom s and can be alienated and undermined. Personal and professional loyalty comes first, a union is useless without that.

beveragelady

I'm in a union and seriously considering leaving. I have been an active member in the past; branch secretary, speeches at congress, good-natured rabble-rousing in general. In the last while though I find that more and more my union membership is an unjustifiable expense.

People say "Oh, the day might come when you need the union, you might get in trouble of some sort and you'll need the protection of your union." I always wonder what they mean by this. Surely the law is there to protect me, unless I'm on the wrong side of it and we're talking about professional misconduct of some description. If that is the case, does that mean that union fees are going to protect teachers who have crossed a line? Why am I paying for their poor judgement?

The other argument against the union is even more obvious. I have watched lazy underqualified teachers retire on a very generous pension, negotiated by the union. The recent entrants to the profession are paying for that sweet deal, both in their paychecks and their working conditions.

On a more petty and personal level, the people I have seen rise to dizzy heights in the union are not exactly the cream of humanity. It kills me that I'm helping to keep some of their very luxurious cars on the road.

In the old days, when my father was teaching, the unions fought against cronyism and corruption. They brought in transparent hiring policies, benchmarked salaries, minimum standards of working conditions. I've benefited from those and I'm grateful. However, does that mean I'm morally obliged to continue forking out?

joebloggs32

beveragelady wrote: »

I'm in a union and seriously considering leaving. I have been an active member in the past; branch secretary, speeches at congress, good-natured rabble-rousing in general. In the last while though I find that more and more my union membership is an unjustifiable expense.

People say "Oh, the day might come when you need the union, you might get in trouble of some sort and you'll need the protection of your union." I always wonder what they mean by this. Surely the law is there to protect me, unless I'm on the wrong side of it and we're talking about professional misconduct of some description. If that is the case, does that mean that union fees are going to protect teachers who have crossed a line? Why am I paying for their poor judgement?

The other argument against the union is even more obvious. I have watched lazy underqualified teachers retire on a very generous pension, negotiated by the union. The recent entrants to the profession are paying for that sweet deal, both in their paychecks and their working conditions.

On a more petty and personal level, the people I have seen rise to dizzy heights in the union are not exactly the cream of humanity. It kills me that I'm helping to keep some of their very luxurious cars on the road.

In the old days, when my father was teaching, the unions fought against cronyism and corruption. They brought in transparent hiring policies, benchmarked salaries, minimum standards of working conditions. I've benefited from those and I'm grateful. However, does that mean I'm morally obliged to continue forking out?

Just imagine what it would be like in five years time if we all decided a union was an expense we could no longer afford.

Frankly frank

joebloggs32 wrote: »

Just imagine what it would be like in five years time if we all decided a union was an expense we could no longer afford.

Point well made but just imagine paying for an inferior pay scale and have fempi apply ,

same terms and conditions apply outside Union without cost of subs

beveragelady

As Dr Phil (may his head be ever shiny) always says, the most reliable indicator of future performance is past performance. In the last ten years, unions have caved to poorly-thought-out junior cert reform, caved to extra hours in school, caved to laughable NQT salaries. (Meanwhile union high-flyers avail of numerous perks and very generous financial remuneration, very far removed from the reality of the job.)
It's a question of demographics. The union officers tend to be in the later years of their teaching careers. It seems to me this is reflected in the fact that thousands of young teachers scrimp to put petrol in the car so they can get to work, and a few short years ago a cohort of teachers retired early on a very generous pension.
Those of us with thirty years left in the job were used as leverage to negotiate for those pensions. This is the union's past performance.

spurious

beveragelady wrote: »

As Dr Phil (may his head be ever shiny) always says, the most reliable indicator of future performance is past performance. In the last ten years, unions have caved to poorly-thought-out junior cert reform, caved to extra hours in school, caved to laughable NQT salaries. (Meanwhile union high-flyers avail of numerous perks and very generous financial remuneration, very far removed from the reality of the job.)
It's a question of demographics. The union officers tend to be in the later years of their teaching careers. It seems to me this is reflected in the fact that thousands of young teachers scrimp to put petrol in the car so they can get to work, and a few short years ago a cohort of teachers retired early on a very generous pension.
Those of us with thirty years left in the job were used as leverage to negotiate for those pensions. This is the union's past performance.

Are you talking about Union officials or the local voluntary Union reps?

Have you served as a Union rep?

beveragelady

spurious wrote: »

Are you talking about Union officials or the local voluntary Union reps?

Have you served as a Union rep?

I'm talking about the officials. I've never been a rep.

spurious

beveragelady wrote: »

I'm talking about the officials. I've never been a rep.

Why not? It's people with passion are needed as reps. If the old brigade get suck doing it, it's only human nature that they get fed up with it.

A branch's activities and policies tend to reflect the meet up of their meetings.

beveragelady

spurious wrote: »

Why not? It's people with passion are needed as reps. If the old brigade get suck doing it, it's only human nature that they get fed up with it.

A branch's activities and policies tend to reflect the meet up of their meetings.

That's the funny thing. As the demographic has shifted in our branch and the average age of members dropped the meetings still tend to be dominated by the old guard. It's a few years ago but I remember a meeting was called because some of us were being asked to use an electronic system which was very convenient, a huge timesaver. The old guard felt threatened and panicked, and when others pointed out that it really wasn't that big a problem they were put in their place with two old chestnuts. "It's the thin end of the wedge" and "It was never done that way here before."

I'd never be a union rep because I have absolutely zero patience with that sort of thinking.

spurious

The 'young folk' need to go for positions in the Branch. It's much more than a one meeting a month commitment though, which is why it's hard to get new people to do it.

beveragelady

spurious wrote: »

The 'young folk' need to go for positions in the Branch. It's much more than a one meeting a month commitment though, which is why it's hard to get new people to do it.

I was young (everything is relative) when I was branch secretary. I had no CID, 12 hours teaching, the usual uncertain situation. On a number of occasions I was put in very uncomfortable positions, signing my name to letters I had been told to write on behalf of one or two members who had axes to grind. There is no way I'd advise younger members to put themselves forward for that sort of thing.

doc_17

Frankly frank wrote: »

doc_17 wrote: »

It really doesn't need to be about what you get out of it, but maybe what we get out of it.

???
I am referring to a hefty sub which runs to thousands over years, hard to justify


Pay Restoration ???
On inferior pay-scale

Apologies for the messy quoted post, it was the way it was originally quoted by Frank that left it like that.

But to your point Frank. You may think your sub isn't worth paying. That's ok. I get that. But the point you miss is that if there wasn't a union, then five or ten years from now teachers would be only too delighted to pay what they pay now to get the terms & conditions they'd almost definitely lose, back.

Frankly frank

doc_17 wrote: »

Frankly frank wrote: »

Apologies for the messy quoted post, it was the way it was originally quoted by Frank that left it like that.

But to your point Frank. You may think your sub isn't worth paying. That's ok. I get that. But the point you miss is that if there wasn't a union, then five or ten years from now teachers would be only too delighted to pay what they pay now to get the terms & conditions they'd almost definitely lose, back.

Ok but you didn't elaborate on question -what pay restoration ?? Moreover, those on lower scale have already lost the terms and conditions you allude to.
That is all , thanks for engaging.

mirrorwall14

My feeling on the TUI versus no union during the last few years is that we would be way worse off. The defence force cuts were very stringent (they had no official representation)

r93kaey5p2izun

I too find myself questioning the point of TUI membership. I have been unhappy with their policies for years now having voted NO to all the agreements and feel they didn't do enough over pay inequality and casualisation. But that's down to how the members voted and now I'm finding that those affected by the inequality aren't willing to fight either and are voting to forego any chance to fight to protect what they have just like those before them. So I can't blame "the union" entirely here for their actions.

But what is really my bugbear with the union is that they have imo lost any real power on the ground among their own members in schools. This to me is what is causing the union to weaken further and further and will I think eventually lead to their downfall completely. They are failing to act when their own members flout rules and breach directives, intimidate vulnerable members. And then they wonder why younger members won't get involved in the union. The union's own members are complicit in dismantling the strength of the union and they are left to do it without sanction. Union involvement is damaging to your career in my sector yet those with the power are union members themselves. Those in senior management are the most protected by union membership from what I see. They have ETB backing in breaching directives and regulations but at the same time have TUI backing in dealing with any disputes or complaints.

I believe they still have a purpose and (some) power in negotiations with the government for terms and conditions but that they then allow these conditions to be significantly eroded on the ground. This is my main issue with the TUI and I think about leaving all the time because of it. But I agree with the point that without union representation we would lose even more than we have and things would be in a very bad state if everyone were to leave, so I don't.

TheDriver

beveragelady wrote: »

On a number of occasions I was put in very uncomfortable positions, signing my name to letters I had been told to write on behalf of one or two members who had axes to grind.

unfortunately there are a few members of our profession who behave quite childishly and unfortunately can get away with it in teaching.

beveragelady

TheDriver wrote: »

unfortunately there are a few members of our profession who behave quite childishly and unfortunately can get away with it in teaching.

And the union supports them. At my expense.

doc_17

Frank,

There is pay restoration, http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/lansdowne-road-agreement-key-points-1.2354303

Whilst it's not all of it, it's a start. The reason I didn't elaborate is that I thought you'd be familiar with it.

Frankly frank

doc_17 wrote: »

Frank,

There is pay restoration, http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/lansdowne-road-agreement-key-points-1.2354303

Whilst it's not all of it, it's a start. The reason I didn't elaborate is that I thought you'd be familiar with it.

There is no pay resoration for inferior abs unequal scales
only the S&S payment and Pension levy reduction over 2yrs - pretty poor return

man_no_plan

Frankly frank wrote: »

There is no pay resoration for inferior abs unequal scales
only the S&S payment and Pension levy reduction over 2yrs - pretty poor return

€1000 on each scale point?

doc_17

Frankly frank wrote: »

There is no pay resoration for inferior abs unequal scales
only the S&S payment and Pension levy reduction over 2yrs - pretty poor return

What is "inferior abs unequal scales"?

Frankly frank

doc_17 wrote: »

What is "inferior abs unequal scales"?

Should read "and"
Apologies correct on both your points
but not really restoration when you consider on inferior scale.

doc_17

The inferior payscales are a scourge and the forum will hopefully address them.

joebloggs32

Will there now be six different pay scales in operation come this September. Must be great employment opportunities going in the payroll section of the department.

icebergiceberg

I wonder too about membership though I understand its protective nature.

On the odd occasion I have had recourse to it, I have had to leave countless messages. When eventually contact was made I felt a dismissive tone to my concern that unsettled and angered me.

Then I ask myself how much am I paying every month and where is it all f.....g well going.