Murder trial collapes

irishvamp90

:mad:
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/murder-trial-collapses-429914.html

i guess the witnesses were scared into forgetting

MagicMarker

Can you paste the info please, not everyone can access the site in work.

irishvamp90

12/10/2009 - 15:18:16
The trial of two young men charged with murder collapsed in the Central Criminal Court today after the prosecution entered a Nolle Prosequi on behalf of the Director of Public Prosecutions

Jason Curry (aged 20) with an address at Leighlin Road, Crumlin and Karl Fay (aged 18) of Lismore Road, Crumlin had both denied murdering David Rooney (aged 35) at Clonmacnoise Road, Crumlin on July 12, 2008.

It was the prosecution's case that Mr Curry attacked Mr Rooney with a snooker cue while Mr Fay hit him with a golf club, Mr Rooney died of his injuries in hospital 10 days after the attack.

Prosecuting Counsel Tom O'Connell SC told the jury that he had been instructed by the DPP to enter a Nolle Prosequi on the basis that there is no further evidence.

The prosecution's case was based on the eyewitness evidence of three young brothers, the eldest of whom gave evidence via video link in court this morning.

The 12-year-old boy, who cannot be named for legal reasons, told the jury he was sitting on the wall of his friend's house on the night of the incident when he saw two men running with their hoods up chasing a third man.

The witness told the court that he had seen the two men hitting the third with a stick, but when asked by prosecuting counsel if he knew any of the men the witness answered no, saying that he did not recognise them as they had their hoods up.

However in a statement read out by prosecuting counsel Tom O'Connell SC, the young boy had told gardaí he recognised one of the two men he saw on the night in question, naming Mr Curry.

When asked by Mr O'Connell SC via video link if he remembered saying that to the gardaí he replied: "I never mentioned any names."

The young boy had told gardaí in his statement that the two men had a golf club and part of a snooker cue but denied having any recollection of that when questioned by Mr O'Connell SC.

He said: "I never said anything about a golf club, I never saw a golf club."

Mr Justice George Birmingham thanked the jury for their service and for their patience throughout the trial and exempted them from further service for 10 years.

Addressing the jury he said; 'Thank you for agreeing to serve it is not an easy task, Mr O'Connell outlined his case at the beginning expecting to produce certain evidence. That expectation has not been realised as the evidence hoped for hasn't been forthcoming.'

Mr Justice Birmingham formally ordered Mr Curry and Mr Fay to be discharged, Mr Curry remains in custody on previous charges.



Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/murder-trial-collapses-429914.html#ixzz0TjdGwVB8

minidazzler

Ah for fcuks sake!!! I am willing to bet it was even his parents who told him to keep stum.

General Zod

or the Gardai coached the witness in his original statement.

Horrible position for the young boy to be in, none the less.

MagicMarker

Do the Gardai not record witness statements a la The Bill?

irishvamp90

Yes surely statements are recorded on tape?

major bill

minidazzler wrote: »

Ah for fcuks sake!!! I am willing to bet it was even his parents who told him to keep stum.

would you honestly blame them in fairness. They living in the same area as these lads who prob have big familys. poor little fecker wouldnt stand a chance!!!

enda1

irishvamp90 wrote: »

Yes surely statements are recorded on tape?

I think its more to discourage perjury.

You still need the possibility of cross-examination and live testimony in court.

irishvamp90

major bill wrote: »

would you honestly blame them in fairness. They living in the same area as these lads who prob have big familys. poor little fecker wouldnt stand a chance!!!

so instead of locking them up its better that the killers can live normal lives?

Jax Teller

major bill wrote: »

would you honestly blame them in fairness. They living in the same area as these lads who prob have big familys. poor little fecker wouldnt stand a chance!!!

not so much there families its who's backing them ., its a well known fact in my area that these did this

Valmont

Bloody scumbags. I shouldn't read these threads, it makes my blood boil.

enda1

irishvamp90 wrote: »

so instead of locking them up its better that the killers can live normal lives?

I'd blame the bleeding prosecution and court for going on about 3 brothers sitting on the wall and 12 year old etc.!!

Sure everyone will know who it is then!

Any evidence like this needs to be anonymous in such a contentions type trial.

squod

Feckin' hate golf and snooker.

major bill

enda1 wrote: »

I'd blame the bleeding prosecution and court for going on about 3 brothers sitting on the wall and 12 year old etc.!!

Sure everyone will know who it is then!

Any evidence like this needs to be anonymous in such a contentions type trial.

exactly crumlins a village word spreads like wildfire. it would have gotten out eventually and where would that leave the lad and his family? a horrible life anyway.

its sad i know but thats the way things are around these parts!!!

Paddycrumlinman

Jesus, can you blame the kid. I am sure he has been warned.

What do you do? Tell the guards and the court what you saw and then expect them to protect you.

Not going to happen.

Its a horrible truth that these two scum bags got away with it.

It happens all the time.

Wagon

enda1 wrote: »

I'd blame the bleeding prosecution and court for going on about 3 brothers sitting on the wall and 12 year old etc.!!

Sure everyone will know who it is then!

Any evidence like this needs to be anonymous in such a contentions type trial.

I noticed that part too. Such a complete disaster of evidance, the only advice i can give that family is to get the fúck out of here while they still can.

seamus

MagicMarker wrote: »

Do the Gardai not record witness statements a la The Bill?

irishvamp90 wrote: »

Yes surely statements are recorded on tape?

Yes but they cannot be used in court (or at least generally aren't) because there are a number of reasons why a statement made in the presence of Gardai can be submitted as misleading - primarily because the Gardai will often ask leading questions in the interview (which they can't do in court) and because a witness may be under shock or other duress and say something which may not be entirely accurate.
There is nothing to say that *someone* may have edited the tape before playing it in front of the court.

Or to put it another way, in order to make a fair judgement, the jury need to hear witness testimony first-hand.

Prof.Badass

squod wrote: »

Feckin' hate golf and snooker.

I hear the evening herald is going to start a "scrap the snooker cue" and "get rid of golf clubs" campaign.

walshb

Well, if all the prosecution had to go on was a witness statement that wasn't concrete, then that wasn't all that convincing. Surely, there must have been other evidence that could have been used, and not just, "I saw them two:rolleyes: I think. I am almost sure it was them." To secure a conviction, it isn't a prerequisite that there has to be a witness. It's a good strong piece, but not the be all and end all.

FlutterinBantam

This is a case for "The Citizen" surely.

genericguy

vinylmesh wrote: »

I hear the evening herald is going to start a "scrap the snooker cue" and "get rid of golf clubs" campaign.

yep, i'd say harney's gonna ban them by christmas.

homerjay2005

surely to f*ck the cops had more evidence than an eye witness? surely they had weapons, finger prints, dna, fragments, mobile phones, other people, cctv etc etc to fall back on?

oh wait, this is the irish police force, who still cant use email and dont have anything remotley modern. cu*ts.

bet some lad gets charged for an unpaid tv licence now instead.

mike kelly

please read this article

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/1013/1224256509227.html

and then read it again, this time reading between the lines. Very interesting from a linguistics pount of view how the story tells what really happened without spelling it out. A pity though that the legal situation in this country prevents journalists from calling a spade a spade.

MizzLolly

I don't know if I 'get' it.. So all charges are dropped now? For good? Because a little boy told some lies?

Can someone please explain what the OP posted? I'm not sure if I'm following?!

TheZohanS

Yesterdays news.

The boys decided that they were "miskaken".

120_Minutes

you can look at it to ways:

either the 12 year old lied in his statement, or he's lying now in his testimony.

if its the former, its a good thing as two possibly innocent men have been spared jail, or its most likely the latter and he's been "encouraged"* to lie on the stand.








*i.e. lie in court of we'll batter ye.

General Zod

homerjay2005 wrote: »

surely to f*ck the cops had more evidence than an eye witness? surely they had weapons, finger prints, dna, fragments, mobile phones, other people, cctv etc etc to fall back on?

oh wait, this is the irish police force, who still cant use email and dont have anything remotley modern. cu*ts.

bet some lad gets charged for an unpaid tv licence now instead.

I think you've been watching too much of the Bill or CSI.

They probably don't have the weapons. They might have a second witness who say one of the accused with a golf club and need the main witness saying he saw the guy being beaten with a golf club.

Very unlikely to get fingerprints in an assault.

Also, the government wouldn't be very popular for putting CCTV into housing estates.


It's a terrible situation.

mike kelly

General Zod wrote: »

Also, the government wouldn't be very popular for putting CCTV into housing estates.

Don't they already have it in some estates in Limeick?

orourkeda

My attitude is if you cant beat them join them.

It's as clear as crystal that the criminal justice in its present form will never work properly. Sometimes you just have to match fire with fire.

mike kelly

General Zod wrote: »

or the Gardai coached the witness in his original statement.

Horrible position for the young boy to be in, none the less.

The Guards should never have allowed these kids to give evidence. They must have known what would happen. The DPP and Garda Commissioner should be accountable when trials collapse in this manner.

General Zod

orourkeda wrote: »

My attitude is if you cant beat them join them.

It's as clear as crystal that the criminal justice in its present form will never work properly. Sometimes you just have to match fire with fire.

Vigilanteism doesn't work, unfortunately.

orourkeda

mike kelly wrote: »

The Guards should never have allowed these kids to give evidence. They must have known what would happen. The DPP and Garda Commissioner should be accountable when trials collapse in this manner.

How can they be? I dont know the ins and outs of the case but perhaps the kids evidence was crucial to the outcome of the case.

The DPP and the Gardai have a tough enough job. They already have to work within the confines of the law and it's as frustrating for them as it is for anyone else when a trial like this collapses. They should only be reprimanded if they have done something immoral or illegal.

orourkeda

General Zod wrote: »

Vigilanteism doesn't work, unfortunately.

Neither does the law. So what do we do?

Jet Black

MagicMarker wrote: »

Do the Gardai not record witness statements a la The Bill?

I gave one in the gardai station 4 year's ago and it was all hand written.

Jet Black

orourkeda wrote: »

My attitude is if you cant beat them join them.

It's as clear as crystal that the criminal justice in its present form will never work properly. Sometimes you just have to match fire with fire.

Not at all. If you or I were defending our family or home and some scum injured themselfs/died. We would most definitly be sued/jailed.
Brilliant system!

General Zod

Mask wrote: »

I gave one in the gardai station 4 year's ago and it was all hand written.

Witness statements are given handwritten, agreed with the witness and signed by the witness and the guard who recorded it.

I'm not sure what the position is with regard to underage children signing witness statements.

Interrogations are recorded for the benefit of the person being questioned, not for the benefit of the guards.

orourkeda

Mask wrote: »

Not at all. If you or I were defending our family or home and some scum injured themselfs/died. We would most definitly be sued/jailed.
Brilliant system!

Abbsolutely but Do you stand back and allow them to do as they please and then blame the justice system afterwards?

General Zod

orourkeda wrote: »

Neither does the law. So what do we do?

you can change and undo an unjust or incorrect law. you can't change and undo an unjust or incorrect beating.

General Zod

Mask wrote: »

Not at all. If you or I were defending our family or home and some scum injured themselfs/died. We would most definitly be sued/jailed.
Brilliant system!

Any examples of this under the Irish judicial system?

orourkeda

General Zod wrote: »

you can change and undo an unjust or incorrect law. you can't change and undo an unjust or incorrect beating.

Thats exactly the point. Law can be manipulated. Thats the whole reason the justice system is crumbling.

orourkeda

General Zod wrote: »

Any examples of this under the Irish judicial system?

There was a case a while back. Now i dont know the exact details but the general gist is A joyrider crashed a car that he had just stolen and died. The mother of the joyrider successfully sued the car owner for the death.

Crime does pay.

biko

[SNIPPED]

orourkeda

Magnus wrote: »

SNIPPED.

True. That is the rule that we're bound too.

polyfusion

It's a crazy system alright, but wasn't there something recently about some new legislation to go on the side of someone protecting themselves on their own property?

Whether part of the law or not, if someone was in my house, whether coming to rob, maim, rape or kill, I know what I would do to protect my family, property and self.

orourkeda

polyfusion wrote: »

It's a crazy system alright, but wasn't there something recently about some new legislation to go on the side of someone protecting themselves on their own property?

Whether part of the law or not, if someone was in my house, whether coming to rob, maim, rape or kill, I know what I would do to protect my family, property and self.

Indeed. But was there a provision for self defence

arybvtcw0eolkf

I doubt either of these two little fvckers will die of old age, sometimes Karma comes encased in copper.

.

Tom Young

Thanks contributors. We're done with this thread for the time being. I've snipped where I believe appropriate.

Tom