J4 Rugby League

j4rugbyhead

Hey lads

what about gettng a J4 thread going seeing as the season just started .

any of you lads involved in matches the weekend ?

mikedragon32

Why not get the ball rolling yourself? Were you involved?

Tim Robbins

mikedragon32 wrote: »

Why not get the ball rolling yourself? Were you involved?

I reffed Tallaght V Terenure J4 Section A on Sunday. Was a good game, lead changed several times and there were contested scrums for the majority of the game. Tallaght have a goal kicking machine at 10 and Terenure played some smart rugby making best use of the possesion they had - scoring 5 tries in the process.

Good luck to both teams for the rest of the season.

remus808

j4rugbyhead wrote: »

Hey lads

what about gettng a J4 thread going seeing as the season just started .

any of you lads involved in matches the weekend ?

Good idea! Started playing J4 with UCD this season after only ever playing half a season 3 years ago, so almost a beginner I guess. We played Trinity away on Saturday, lost 12-3 in a messy game. Their big J1 full-back caused us problems all day long (he had a foot in touch for his try though). Played the second half at loosehead, my first time ever propping - neck is still killing me!

shoutman

Played against O.B for Clontarf on Saturday.

Ended up losing 27-20 in a game which I felt we should of won. Tough match to lose, but looking forward to having weekly competitive matches.

magotch07

i played for tallaght b against millmount... it was a good match lost by 4 points we really should of won but it wasnt to be ah well bring on next week

Eoin

Didn't play, but Seapoint got a good 76 - 5 win against Rathdrum.

karmabass wrote: »

Played the second half at loosehead, my first time ever propping - neck is still killing me!

Hmmm, take care with that, even if scrummaging is watered down a little below J1 level. Some tips that may be of use - when you engage, look slightly to the left of the scrum, so your head is angled slightly outward. On the engage, bind as high on the opposing tighthead; aim for the back of his shorts - this makes it harder for you to be turned in.

thebossanova

karmabass wrote: »

Good idea! Started playing J4 with UCD this season after only ever playing half a season 3 years ago, so almost a beginner I guess. We played Trinity away on Saturday, lost 12-3 in a messy game. Their big J1 full-back caused us problems all day long (he had a foot in touch for his try though). Played the second half at loosehead, my first time ever propping - neck is still killing me!

He was actually a backrower and can't get his game at J1 which is why he was with us. Will probably play with the J3's from now on. And surely if he had a foot in touch the try would have been disallowed!? Maybe if your touchy had kept up with play instead of chatting to someone on the halfway it could have been called better... :rolleyes:, or he would have seen that he actually wasn't in touch?:p

Was a great game anyway! We had a lot of guys playing their 1st game for Trinity and they really enjoyed the experience. Was a typical tough colours game.

On a sidenote, anyone have the ref clamping down on backchat and foul language? 2 games I went to this weekend, the ref's both had this agenda.

Davei141

We ( Unidare) started the season with a 30 - 0 victory against the Emerald Warriors at Tymon Park, our scrums and lineouts were brilliant so hopefully we can beat millmount next week on our own patch

2nd Row Donkey

I also played for Tallaght B in the Millmount game that Mcgotch07 mentioned above.

We were 17-0 down after 15 mins and hit back soon afterwards to get back to 17-13. Despite having the whole of the 2nd half to turn things around we didn't manage it.

Typical first game of the season stuff with loads of knock on's, forward passes etc. All the scrums were uncontested which I felt went against us as it was really our forwards who took the game to Millmount and we could'nt do any back row moves despite countless scrums in the oppostion half.

We play University Dublin this weekend coming according to the fixture list - anyone know how they got on?

mikedragon32

2nd Row Donkey wrote: »

I also played for Tallaght B in the Millmount game that Mcgotch07 mentioned above.

We were 17-0 down after 15 mins and hit back soon afterwards to get back to 17-13. Despite having the whole of the 2nd half to turn things around we didn't manage it.

Typical first game of the season stuff with loads of knock on's, forward passes etc. All the scrums were uncontested which I felt went against us as it was really our forwards who took the game to Millmount and we could'nt do any back row moves despite countless scrums in the oppostion half.

We play University Dublin this weekend coming according to the fixture list - anyone know how they got on?

See Karmabass and Bossanova's posts above!

Stillorgan J4 played a challenge match against DLSP as Tallaght (who we were due to play this weekend) were elevated to Section A of the J4 competition. SRFC won 17 - 5, game finished a couple of minutes early due to a head injury in the middle of the park. Branch ref never showed.

2nd Row Donkey

Davei141 wrote: »

We ( Unidare) started the season with a 30 - 0 victory against the Emerald Warriors at Tymon Park, our scrums and lineouts were brilliant so hopefully we can beat millmount next week on our own patch

We'll you'll probably have a field day against Millmount then 'cos there lineout was average (maybe they were missing the regular jumpers or something)

2nd Row Donkey

mikedragon32 wrote: »

See Karmabass and Bossanova's posts above!

Yeah, the spreadsheet I got with the fixtures mentions both "UCD" and "University Dublin" who play in Santry so i guess thats DCU then?

delta_bravo

Does anyone know if Millmount have a home ground? We played them at home last year, and looking at the fixtures list their home venue is listed as TBC

Eoin

Wikipedia says that they are based in the ALSAA grounds.

magotch07

2nd Row Donkey wrote: »

I also played for Tallaght B in the Millmount game that Mcgotch07 mentioned above.

We were 17-0 down after 15 mins and hit back soon afterwards to get back to 17-13. Despite having the whole of the 2nd half to turn things around we didn't manage it.

Typical first game of the season stuff with loads of knock on's, forward passes etc. All the scrums were uncontested which I felt went against us as it was really our forwards who took the game to Millmount and we could'nt do any back row moves despite countless scrums in the oppostion half.

We play University Dublin this weekend coming according to the fixture list - anyone know how they got on?

yep ill agree with ya that handling killed us, as a forward i thought we had the beating of millmount upfront i really thought we had it in the second half anyway its nothing we cant work on in training and get right for next week

what postion where u sat

mikedragon32

eoin wrote: »

Wikipedia says that they are based in the ALSAA grounds.

They ceded home advantage in most games last year afaik.

2nd Row Donkey

magotch07 wrote: »

yep ill agree with ya that handling killed us, as a forward i thought we had the beating of millmount upfront i really thought we had it in the second half anyway its nothing we cant work on in training and get right for next week

what postion where u sat

And their handling was worse! If a few more balls made it to out their winger or full back then we would have been in big trouble.

I played second row mate (hence the user name:D )

j4rugbyhead

We played Railway union , luck to win tho , our tackling wasnt great and we sneaked it at the end.

Thought the ref was good, strict but fair , cant ask for more than that the scrums were contested which was great , both packs had the upper hand at times .

speaking of scrums I hear that a certain west dublin club went non contest again before their match , they have been doing this for years and it appears to be a "regular thing" .

i gather that there is a move to ensure clubs that are likely to go non contest to inform the team that they are due to play of this a couple of days in advance of the match , to be in the "spirit" of the game . think it would be a great idea

Eoin

It sounds good in theory, but the reality of J4 rugby for a lot of clubs is that the team isn't really decided until a few minutes before kick off - e.g. who wasn't sober enough to make it down to the club in time / who has copped on not to answer their phone 30 mins before kick off for an emergency call up etc.

Before I get berated, I know there are an awful lot of J4 teams who are very committed.

Also, I'd rather see uncontested scums over someone playing in the front row without any experience.

remus808

eoin wrote: »

Also, I'd rather see uncontested scums over someone playing in the front row without any experience.

Everybody has to start somewhere though? (Although I feel like I should be wearing a neckbrace at the moment..)

magotch07

2nd Row Donkey wrote: »

And their handling was worse! If a few more balls hand of made it to their winger or full back then we would have been in trouble.

I played second row mate (hence the user name:D )

its not my fault im a prop so im abit slow in the head..... so i was your prop for half the match and no8 for the second half basically i agree both their winger and FB where very good....i thought the noncontested scrums would of gave there backs less ball and we mite have been able to work sum backrow moves....our linout was poor in the 2nd half i thought

also with the uncontested scrums it plays into backs hands way too much...but then again if a new lad was to go against a lad with expierence he could get badly injured

shoutman

thebossanova wrote: »

On a sidenote, anyone have the ref clamping down on backchat and foul language? 2 games I went to this weekend, the ref's both had this agenda.

If you are talking about the ref that did the J3 game in college park yesterday then its just him, the chap is a madman, he give's penalties if the captain asks him to look at offsides and the like....
Powertrip imo.

2nd Row Donkey

magotch07 wrote: »

its not my fault im a prop so im abit slow in the head..... so i was your prop for half the match and no8 for the second half basically i agree both their winger and FB where very good....i thought the noncontested scrums would of gave there backs less ball and we mite have been able to work sum backrow moves....our linout was poor in the 2nd half i thought

also with the uncontested scrums it plays into backs hands way too much...but then again if a new lad was to go against a lad with expierence he could get badly injured

Agreed. With so many subs and postional changes the lineouts were bound to get messy, which was a shame as we controlled the lineouts for the first 50 mins.

Eoin

karmabass wrote: »

Everybody has to start somewhere though? (Although I feel like I should be wearing a neckbrace at the moment..)

Absolutely - I'd be more worried about just shoving the fattest bloke in the front row because the team is being made scrummage, rather than someone who actually is trying to learn the position.

You'd hope that someone learning the ropes is at least getting some time on the scrum machine or something like that.

Davei141

2nd Row Donkey wrote: »

We'll you'll probably have a field day against Millmount then 'cos there lineout was average (maybe they were missing the regular jumpers or something)

Always good to know but can never take anything for granted!

2nd Row Donkey

Davei141 wrote: »

Always good to know but can never take anything for granted!

I'm sure they'll work on them at training this week and thus be a good bit better by the time they play you guys so beware.

FYI, their fullback and winger are the danger men in their backs.

delta_bravo

mikedragon32 wrote: »

They ceded home advantage in most games last year afaik.

Yeah i think they did. They probably have to pay to use alsaa. Its a shame theres no pitch in Mountjoy for them to use, would be good craic playing there;)

Goodluck2me

thebossanova wrote: »

On a sidenote, anyone have the ref clamping down on backchat and foul language? 2 games I went to this weekend, the ref's both had this agenda.

this is a good thing in my opinion, its always been a strong selling point of rugby that people show the referee respect, unlike soccer where its disgraceful.

I was just looking at the ferguson incident today and I dont remember the last time if ever I have heard a senior rugby manager criticise a referee publicly.

FWIW, even though I dont play J4 I think this is a great idea for a thread, and the fact there are 5 J4 league in Leinster is just brilliant.

thebossanova

shoutman wrote: »

If you are talking about the ref that did the J3 game in college park yesterday then its just him, the chap is a madman, he give's penalties if the captain asks him to look at offsides and the like....
Powertrip imo.

Yes, he was a bit strict alright, but our J4 ref the day before was very similar. One of our guys on the touchline got told he'd be sent off, without him even having come on yet, for making calls. In fairness the player in question is a belligerent arse, but how was the ref supposed to know that!?:D

2nd Row Donkey wrote: »

Yeah, the spreadsheet I got with the fixtures mentions both "UCD" and "University Dublin" who play in Santry so i guess thats DCU then?

No. Trinity's grounds are on Santry Avenue, good bit past DCU. You can check the DUFC website for directions. AFAIK we're playing @tallaght this weekend so no need to worry about our grounds till January.

smartaform

I play for Newbridge J4's... We received a right old beating off Malahide there on The Curragh.
They are a very efficent team, electric full back - he just sliced through 2nd centre/right wing all day. Tough match coming up this weekend against Wanderers - training intensity is going to be upped we had a few first time players last week who sort of got a baptism of fire ....

Guy:Incognito

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I reffed Tallaght V Terenure J4 Section A on Sunday. Was a good game, lead changed several times and there were contested scrums for the majority of the game. Tallaght have a goal kicking machine at 10 and Terenure played some smart rugby making best use of the possesion they had - scoring 5 tries in the process.

Good luck to both teams for the rest of the season.

Ah, so that was you eh?:) Good to have a face to picture you now.

I was injured at the weekend and couldnt play for the 2nd team so was on the sideline watching. Covered the bench though to get myself on the teamsheet:)

eeyore2502

Part of the problem with the lineouts in the Tallaght v Millmount match was the ref calling crooked ball because he didn't have his contacts in and couldn't see a thing !!

2nd Row Donkey

hiya Eeyore

Have to agree with you on that one.. some of the balls he called crooked where inch perfect! Very strange altogether!

Eoin

I don't think it's fair to be criticising referees at this level. They turn up (usually) to allow us play the game, and it must be a thankless job. At J4 level, I'd say a lot of them are learning as well.

Goodluck2me

As a referee once said to me, don't shout at me when you think ive made a mistake and Ill not tell you that you should have kicked instead of passed etc.

Most of the referee's are better at reffing than the players are at playing so most cant criticise!

theKramer

Link to the J4 results/fixtures. You can get at it by the menu on the left:
http://www.sportsmanager.ie/t4.php?countyid=69&sportid=5&club_id=&defaultpage=1&userid=5756.

We (CYM) lost to Wexford at the weekend. Half the pack hadnt been to training yet, and half were brand new, so we could have done better if the pack had had a little more time together. Hopefully we can get more bodies down this week and work on that.

Our backs did ok, except for a few silly errors, like trying to catch the ball when it was going out of play and then conceding the lineout. Wexford were better than us on the day, but hopefully we can turn it around in the reverse fixture if we have more time to gel

2nd Row Donkey

Our ref on saturday also gave the oppostion coach/subs/manager a telling off last weekend. There's definetly a clamp down on that.

Actually, we were playing a friendly match 2 weeks ago and from the kick off a ruck developed. I could see my oppostite number lining up behind the ruck to take a crash ball so I positioned myself behind our ruck to stop him. You know - get the first hit in early and all that.
Next thing the ref walks right into the path between us just as yer man is about to break the game line, so I nudged the ref outta the way with my forearm and make the tackle but the ref blows up and gives them a penelty plus 10 yards and lectures me for using abusive language.. all i said was "get outta the way ref" no foul language or anything and he tells me if it was'nt the first 5 mins of the game I would have been sent off!

twinytwo

karmabass wrote: »

Good idea! Started playing J4 with UCD this season after only ever playing half a season 3 years ago, so almost a beginner I guess. We played Trinity away on Saturday, lost 12-3 in a messy game. Their big J1 full-back caused us problems all day long (he had a foot in touch for his try though). Played the second half at loosehead, my first time ever propping - neck is still killing me!

i hate losing games cause teams bring j1 players to a j3 game that end up being awesome and dominating the game..

Tim Robbins

theKramer wrote: »

Link to the J4 results/fixtures. You can get at it by the menu on the left:
http://www.sportsmanager.ie/t4.php?countyid=69&sportid=5&club_id=&defaultpage=1&userid=5756

I'm going to copy and paste in the results from last weekend as that site can be a bit flaky...

Section A:
Old Belvedere 29 22 Clontarf Anglesea Road
Blackrock College RFC 21 40 Clondalkin Stradbrook
Coolmine 16 14 St. Marys College RFC Ashbrook
Tallaght A 21 34 Terenure College RFC P and T Club Kiltipper Rd

Section B:
Monkstown 19 36 Barnhall Sydney Parade
Greystones 14 11 Lansdowne Dr Hickey Park
A.I.B 16 12 Parkmore DCU Sports Complex

Section C:
Railway Union 19 23 Wanderers Park Avenue
Newbridge 0 48 Malahide Rosetown
Rathdrum 5 76 Seapoint Ivy Leaf Grounds
CYM 21 34 Wexford Wanderers Terenure Rd North

Section
Bective Rangers 0 46 De La Salle Palmerston Kirwan Park
Emerald Warriors 0 30 Unidare Tymon Park
Dublin University 12 3 UCD College Park
Millmount House 17 13 Tallaght B P and T Club Kiltipper Rd

Suggest we keep this thread just about the J4 leagues. Any other matches separate threads....

2nd Row Donkey

I'm new to playing rugby in leinster (played in Ulster leagues before)

14 league games isn't a whole pile, what cup competitions can I look forward to?

delta_bravo

There will be a cup around april

CdeC

theKramer wrote: »

Link to the J4 results/fixtures. You can get at it by the menu on the left:
http://www.sportsmanager.ie/t4.php?countyid=69&sportid=5&club_id=&defaultpage=1&userid=5756.

We (CYM) lost to Wexford at the weekend. Half the pack hadnt been to training yet, and half were brand new, so we could have done better if the pack had had a little more time together. Hopefully we can get more bodies down this week and work on that.

It's hard to get people out training in j4, they want to play but when it comes down to it your lucky to have half the team out on a Tues/Thurs. Anyone know the secret to getting people motivated to come out regularly as progress is so slow in improvement when the league matches are the only time some players see eachother????

Eoin

If Tuesday is generally fitness night, then you can forget about getting people down for that. A lot of people play J4 because they want relatively commitment-free rugby, and can't be arsed training twice a week. Again, I know there are many teams that take it seriously - especially clubs where the J4 team might be the first or second XV.

I don't know what you can do really. I spent many years where I would be down training twice a week, but because there was little competition at that level, someone who didn't ever train would still get a game every week out of necessity.

You could try having a short session on a Thursday - game of tip, run through some back moves / forwards set pieces and then combine them. If you can get more people down for that, then you can build on it.

2nd Row Donkey

eoin wrote: »

If Tuesday is generally fitness night, then you can forget about getting people down for that. A lot of people play J4 because they want relatively commitment-free rugby, and can't be arsed training twice a week. Again, I know there are many teams that take it seriously - especially clubs where the J4 team might be the first or second XV.

Interesting observation Eoin. That does appear to be the case according to the various threads in this forum.

Does that mean that teams who's 1st or 2nd XV are in the J4 league are likely to be better because they are more committed and train regularly together

Or is this advantage negated by the fact that clubs with teams playing in J2/J3 above them can call on a better quality of player to drop down and make up for the short comings of a team that doesn't train sufficiently.

Eoin

I think it can cut both ways - there might be more chopping and changing in a club with lots of teams. I think it's pretty hard to say one way or the other really.

My old club was an AIL club, and I remember going one season with maybe 3/4 wins - and that was playing twice a week, every week. But then, an entire J4 team came en masse from UCD who wanted a social game but some silverware as well. They had been playing together for years so they ended up with a pretty good record. And there would be the occasional ex-AIL player who could make a difference.

When I joined a Junior club, it seemed a little better. But there's always clubs like Old Belvedere who can put out a pretty good outfit at any level. Over the years, I'd say they're the most consistently strong club I've played against at Junior level.

2nd Row Donkey

What are the rules on playing a J1/J2 players at J4 level.

Can any J2 player simply decide to go for a run out with the J4's in any given saturday or what?

I assume he can't or he can only do so if he has'nt play for the J2 team with the previous 8 weeks or something or if he played more than 50% of the j2 games he cannot play for the J4 team again or what!?!?

Eoin

In my old club, the most capped junior player was a guy called N.E. Other. You never really knew who you were down on the official team sheet was. That's the easiest way for clubs to get around the rules. On one weekend I played J1, J2 and J3 from Friday to Sunday, and I'm sure my name was different on each team sheet!

There's rules about being cup-tied, but I don't know how it works for the league. Certainly it would be unfair for a J1 player not to be able to play at all if he was genuinely dropped.

Pixelcraft

2nd Row Donkey wrote: »

Can any J2 player simply decide to go for a run out with the J4's in any given saturday or what?

If they've played 6 games then they're reclassified. so no if playing by the rules.

Luckycharm

One of the main reasons you would often get really strong teams at J4 level who would be better then their J3 teams was that players did not want to play on a Sunday. I know quite a few clubs where their J4 team was excellent and basically had their own panel who would not available to other teams because their player did not want to play sunday rugby.
Now that J3s is on Friday nights this should help. Also at bigger clubs that have feeder schools you will generally get players who have rugby in school so will have alot of the basics while Junior clubs tend to attract alot of beginners etc so it takes them a bit longer to learn the game and lets be honest it does a few months to pick it up at least. Also for example at cup time you used to get players who used to be very good just coming back for the cups having played no rugby in the leagues.
Another thing that happens is that a player say comes back from injury from the first which basicaly has a ripple affect through the club with a player dropping down from each team.

2nd Row Donkey

I see, so its pretty much ungoverned.

- anyone can play any level on any given weekend and get away with it.

My bro plays rugby for a junior team in ulster and almost every single year without fail they get hauled up in front of the disciplinary commitee in Raven hill for playing 1st team players on the 2nd team - probably in cup competitions, and as a result they get booted out. Yet they are on the recieving end of this kinda thing week in week out in the league.