Worst Killers of the Troubles

b12mearse

Today the INLA is to announce its ending its campaign. http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1011/inla.html
Through the years the INLA has produced the most vicious killers of the troubles, Dessie O Hare and Dominic McGlinchey. Dessie O Hare himself murdered around 30 people and is now walking the streets which I find quite fascinating.
I was just wondering who else you could add to the list of worst killers of the troubles and there number of victims?
I'm sorry if I have offended anyone but I think its worth a discussion.

mike65

Its NOT worth a discussion!

RealityCheck

mike65 wrote: »

Its NOT worth a discussion!

Agreed.

Terrontress

I think Lenny Murphy would have to be seen as one of the worst. An absolute psychopath whose death was welcomed by loyalist, republicans and security forces alike.

mega man

Jim Lynagh murdered around 30 people. met his end in loughgall,
some guy in south armagh holds poll position with 70 murders...

Joey the lips

Terrontress wrote: »

I think Lenny Murphy would have to be seen as one of the worst. An absolute psychopath whose death was welcomed by loyalist, republicans and security forces alike.

aka the shankil butchers read the book. A great read but sad.


Would love to know whats political about all this. It's emotive I think. Someone is bound to come on and say something crap like "Them's was the troubles" Yes they were and i do not know why we are hashing and rehashing.

What disacussion can be gained in this and the op's reason for posting.

Emm let me see.....

b12mearse

the good friday agreement is great and all but there is a flip side to it. there are numerous serial killers walking the streets of ireland some even in the same towns as the victims families. i dont think the good friday agreement has ever adressed the feelings of those families who were affected by the serial killers of the troubles.

dlofnep

Lenny Murphy, without a doubt.

b12mearse

what about johnny adair?

dlofnep

b12mearse wrote: »

what about johnny adair?

He's like Ghandi compared to Lenny Murphy, but is in his own right - an evil, sick, monster.

the_syco

b12mearse wrote: »

Today the INLA is to announce its ending its campaign.

I wonder to about the timing, esp with the courtcase http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/ireland/bulletproof-vest-found-in-home-of-inla-accused-court-hears-429612.html

FlutterinBantam

mega man wrote: »

Jim Lynagh murdered around 30 people. met his end in loughgall,
some guy in south armagh holds poll position with 70 murders...

Pole position actually

Joey the lips

b12mearse wrote: »

what about johnny adair?

I reckon jonny adair and billy wright killed more of there own with Drugs than they ever done in the "Catholic" population. I say "Catholic" because jonny made the mistake of assuming that all "Catholics" are nationalist and hated them on these grounds.

Thank god he was not in dublin..... Hold on....

mega man

Brian Nelson murdered quite a few. the British Governemnt gave him a lincence to kill.

PomBear

i'd put Maggie Thatcher at pole position

Riddle101

Declan Duffy maybe? Isn't he the one who's called Whacko Duffy or something, and is supposed to a real scumbag. I think I read it in a Paul Williams book

Acacia

I had heard of the Shankhill Butchers but not Lenny Muprhy. Decided to give him a Google and found this (after reading about his crimes)... I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

http://rlv.zcache.com/lenny_murphy_bag-p1498293332334343012w92h_400.jpg


Seriously disturbing. :eek:

mega man

Riddle101 wrote: »

Declan Duffy maybe? Isn't he the one who's called Whacko Duffy or something, and is supposed to a real scumbag. I think I read it in a Paul Williams book

there's currently an extraditiion proceeding against whacker duffy for his alleged involment in the murder of recruiting soldier in the uk.

b12mearse

i think this song was written by the pogues based on Whacker Duffy and his alleged involvment in the murder of the recruiting sergeant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTHWJbw60Gk

Bottle_of_Smoke

We'll never know who the "worst" were. Its hard to define as lots of paramilitary groups had strict army procedures. In those cases its hard to call who's worse - the bomb-maker/planter or the guy who ordered the bombing.

Guess on the ground lenny murphy is the obvious choice

In_tuition

Pointless

Zambia

Worst killer of the troubles was tobacco.

7000 approx per annum

Fratton Fred

guy i was working with mentioned that loughall was a set up, anyone else here this?

He claimed the IRA army Council were concerned about some of the South Armagh brigade being out of control and needed to get rid of them, so they organised the attack on an RUC station to get rid of them.

dlofnep

Fratton Fred wrote: »

guy i was working with mentioned that loughall was a set up, anyone else here this?

He claimed the IRA army Council were concerned about some of the South Armagh brigade being out of control and needed to get rid of them, so they organised the attack on an RUC station to get rid of them.

So because some random Bob tells you, it must be true?

No, it was not a setup.

Fratton Fred

dlofnep wrote: »

So because some random Bob tells you, it must be true?

No, it was not a setup.

No, his name was Luke actually and he seemed pretty convincing. It seemed like a plausible story, changing political winds, hardliners that would never change etc etc.

LordSutch

mega man wrote: »

Jim Lynagh murdered around 30 people. met his end in loughgall, some guy in south armagh holds poll position with 70 murders...

By comparisson, 'Jack the ripper' murdered between 5 & 7 people, and were still talking about him today!

FTA69

Riddle101 wrote: »

Declan Duffy maybe? Isn't he the one who's called Whacko Duffy or something, and is supposed to a real scumbag. I think I read it in a Paul Williams book

He was called "Whacker" Duffy, a common enough nickname around the place. He was the former INLA leader in Dublin, also a complete criminal who dragged the name of Irish Republicanism through the mud in Dublin city. The INLA declare themselves the only armed group representative of the Irish working class, and here we find their leader was a fat, Jaguar-driving retrobate who had his hands in all sorts of sh*t, as well as getting into feuds with drug-dealers over God know's what. To be honest there are some people in the Irps who are very genuine and sincere activists, but as we saw with Duffy, that trend isn't exactly universal.

In short, their entire "brand" so to speak has become associated with drugs and crackpots like Dessie O'Hare; the best thing they could do would be to wind up their armed group because it has brought them and others nothing but trouble over the past ten years.

FF,

guy i was working with mentioned that loughall was a set up, anyone else here this?

He claimed the IRA army Council were concerned about some of the South Armagh brigade being out of control and needed to get rid of them, so they organised the attack on an RUC station to get rid of them.

It was actually members of the East Tyrone Brigade (and one civilian) who were killed by the SAS on that day. I've heard that story too and have concluded it is a load of b*llocks.

Mayo Exile

Whoever it was in MI5/MI6 who sent their UVF proxies to bomb Dublin and Monaghan in 1974 would be near the top of any list of this sort.

Joey the lips

dlofnep wrote: »

So because some random Bob tells you, it must be true?

No, it was not a setup.

I would not have gone there. You know what they say! A friend of mine is on speaking terms with Elvis. Does not mean i belive him.

It would suit to believe that loughall was a set up. It would make it easier to explain the massacre.

jimmmy

b12mearse wrote: »

I was just wondering who else you could add to the list of worst killers of the troubles ?

P. O'Neill ?

DublinDes

I'm surprised no one mentioned Paisley. He may not have pulled the trigger himself but he sure incited many others to it though. :mad:




Nor for that matter was he the only unionist who was happy to flirt with the loyalists.

alfranken

DublinDes wrote: »

I'm surprised no one mentioned Paisley. He may not have pulled the trigger himself but he sure incited many others to it though. :mad:




Nor for that matter was he the only unionist who was happy to flirt with the loyalists.

He'll get his reward in heaven.

dlofnep

Fratton Fred wrote: »

No, his name was Luke actually and he seemed pretty convincing.

Pretty convincing because it appeals to your political nature? Of course.

But I can categorically tell you that it's a load of rubbish. You're more than welcome to take it up in the conspiracy forum and provide your proof, rather than a Jimmy told me story.

lugha

dlofnep wrote: »

But I can categorically tell you that it's a load of rubbish.

I would have thought that the only folk who could "categorically" attest that Loughgall was not a setup would have to be in cahoots with the Crown forces, no?

dlofnep

lugha wrote: »

I would have thought that the only folk who could "categorically" attest that Loughgall was not a setup would have to be in cahoots with the Crown forces, no?

No.

lugha

I only vaguely recall the affair but as best I can recollect the SAS were lying in wait. Presumably someone tipped of the SAS, so in that sense they IRA unit were setup?

alfranken

lugha wrote: »

I only vaguely recall the affair but as best I can recollect the SAS were lying in wait. Presumably someone tipped of the SAS, so in that sense they IRA unit were setup?

Happens in war

Fratton Fred

Ed Maloney mentions it in his book "the Secret History of the IRA".

S-Murph

FTA69 wrote: »

In short, their entire "brand" so to speak has become associated with drugs and crackpots like Dessie O'Hare; the best thing they could do would be to wind up their armed group because it has brought them and others nothing but trouble over the past ten years.

But that 'brand' varies from place to place. In Derry, and numerous other parts of the North, people are quite supportive, or sympathetic, to the INLA.

It is true that elements of the organisation have muddied the water, but thats something that can be overcome with some work.

It is very unfortunate, in my view, that the last revolutionary socialist organisation with arms on the island has given them up. The organisation could have been moulded into something more than a traditional paramilitary, with more than "armed struggle" its focus.

It wasn't me!

S-Murph wrote: »

It is very unfortunate, in my view, that the last revolutionary socialist organisation with arms on the island has given them up. The organisation could have been moulded into something more than a traditional paramilitary, with more than "armed struggle" its focus.

You've got to be joking. Unfortunate? Illustrate exactly how armed paramilitary groups operating without state sanction is going to contribute to stability or positive progress in Ireland please? Because I have to say, I spent saturday night hallucinating with fever, and that's still the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a really long time. And how is it no longer possibly to become more than a traditional paramilitary now that they've committed to getting away from armed insurrection? Surely logic suggests that that's a move in such a direction? Honestly, that was just baffling, frankly.

alfranken

S-Murph wrote: »

But that 'brand' varies from place to place. In Derry, and numerous other parts of the North, people are quite supportive, or sympathetic, to the INLA.

It is true that elements of the organisation have muddied the water, but thats something that can be overcome with some work.

It is very unfortunate, in my view, that the last revolutionary socialist organisation with arms on the island has given them up. The organisation could have been moulded into something more than a traditional paramilitary, with more than "armed struggle" its focus.

Snigger, they had so much to offer.

S-Murph

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Illustrate exactly how armed paramilitary groups operating without state sanction is going to contribute to stability or positive progress in Ireland please?

Well its a highly subjective issue. I cant understand where "state sanction" comes into this, as if the Irish free state or British state is an absolute entity.

In particular with the INLA, its political goal is/was the establishment of an Irish socialist republic. Thats a progressive aim, in my view.

And how is it no longer possibly to become more than a traditional paramilitary now that they've committed to getting away from armed insurrection?

They were formed to undertake an armed struggle specifically, not insurrection. They have now claimed the armed struggle is over, which is fair enough as it was futile anyway. They have also claimed that the socialist struggle will take an exclusivley peaceful path - which pretty much flies in the face of what a revolution is.

The options they have limited themselves to was armed struggle against the British or peaceful political struggle. This neglects their potential role in backing up the class struggle and achieving tactical goals using physical force.

Victor

b12mearse wrote: »

Today the INLA is to announce its ending its campaign. http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1011/inla.html
Through the years the INLA has produced the most vicious killers of the troubles, Dessie O Hare and Dominic McGlinchey. Dessie O Hare himself murdered around 30 people and is now walking the streets which I find quite fascinating.
I was just wondering who else you could add to the list of worst killers of the troubles and there number of victims?
I'm sorry if I have offended anyone but I think its worth a discussion.

Terrontress wrote: »

I think Lenny Murphy would have to be seen as one of the worst. An absolute psychopath whose death was welcomed by loyalist, republicans and security forces alike.

mega man wrote: »

Jim Lynagh murdered around 30 people. met his end in loughgall,
some guy in south armagh holds poll position with 70 murders...

dlofnep wrote: »

Lenny Murphy, without a doubt.

b12mearse wrote: »

what about johnny adair?

mega man wrote: »

Brian Nelson murdered quite a few. the British Governemnt gave him a lincence to kill.

PomBear wrote: »

i'd put Maggie Thatcher at pole position

What is this Top Trumps?

S-Murph

alfranken wrote: »

Snigger, they had so much to offer.

And the movement still does.

alfranken

S-Murph wrote: »

And the movement still does.

My bowels just had a movement. I wouldn't trust the fascist psycho gangsters to iron my shirt let alone have any involvement in politics.

Fratton Fred

dlofnep wrote: »

Pretty convincing because it appeals to your political nature? Of course.

But I can categorically tell you that it's a load of rubbish. You're more than welcome to take it up in the conspiracy forum and provide your proof, rather than a Jimmy told me story.

actually his political views were/are very different to mine, he was looking at it more as a "the SAS wouldn't have been able to ambush them if the IRA army council hadn't set them up".

Still, once again you are the proven oracle on these things.

S-Murph

alfranken wrote: »

My bowels just had a movement. I wouldn't trust the fascist psycho gangsters to iron my shirt let alone have any involvement in politics.

Im guessing you know some personally. Or is that your bowels talking.

caseyann

b12mearse wrote: »

Today the INLA is to announce its ending its campaign. http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1011/inla.html
Through the years the INLA has produced the most vicious killers of the troubles, Dessie O Hare and Dominic McGlinchey. Dessie O Hare himself murdered around 30 people and is now walking the streets which I find quite fascinating.
I was just wondering who else you could add to the list of worst killers of the troubles and there number of victims?
I'm sorry if I have offended anyone but I think its worth a discussion.

Kerr's FRU has been the subject of a long-running and top secret inquiry by Sir John Stevens, Scotland Yard Commissioner, into whether or not they colluded with loyalists as part of a campaign of organised state-sanctioned murder. The FRU are suspected of carrying out an arson attack on Stevens' office in an attempt to destroy key evidence linking the unit with UDA murder gangs. This is a story that military chiefs do not want out.
http://www.serve.com/pfc/fru/fru12022k1a.html

http://cryptome.org/hmg-murder.htm

FTA69

lugha wrote: »

I only vaguely recall the affair but as best I can recollect the SAS were lying in wait. Presumably someone tipped of the SAS, so in that sense they IRA unit were setup?

They could have been aware of the ambush due to electronic or personal surveillance, similarly it could also have been the result of a tout within East Tyrone. Neither option suggest that they were set up by the IRA leadership, the former two options are a far more likely explanation in my opinion.

S Murph,

But that 'brand' varies from place to place. In Derry, and numerous other parts of the North, people are quite supportive, or sympathetic, to the INLA

Outside of Derry and Strabane I can't think of any areas where the Irps would be considered "strong". The fact also remains that within the capital city of this country, for years the INLA leader was nothing short of a criminal, and has been denounced as such by senior members of the RSM and even the INLA themselves. The Duffy debacle did untold damage to the RSM in South, leaving numbers of young people stuck in Portlaoise because Duffy went on a power trip and involved himself in crime. Similarly that whole episode dragged Republicanism in Inner City and West Dublin into the sh*t, this at a time when Republicans need reorganisation and support above all. Hardly empowering the proletariat is it? To be honest arms and armed organisations are entirely redundant tactics at this present moment in time, the only time I can see those tactics being feasably re-employed in the near future is if members of Republican organisations come under attack from drug-dealers or other anti-working class elements.

The focus now must be to construct a socialist alternative and to tap into the current swathes of massive discontent amongst working people in Ireland. If you aren't relevant to their daily struggles, or active on issues that affect them then in short you're wasting your time. Generally paramilitarism along the lines of recent INLA activity more often than not detract from that in my opinion.

The RSM has many decent, sincere and astute activists. It is them who need to take the initiative if the broader RSM is to have any hope of becoming somewhat relevant in working-class politics.

LordSutch

José Alaninho

Camelot wrote: »

Nice collection! UTP!